This American Life about desegregation in schools

[Anonymous]

Could we all agree this is all about SES and not race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could we all agree this is all about SES and not race.

No, we cannot. We can agree that it is ALSO about SES, but those things cannot be separated in the United States when you are talking about education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could we all agree this is all about SES and not race.

No, we cannot. We can agree that it is ALSO about SES, but those things cannot be separated in the United States when you are talking about education.

This is step #2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could we all agree this is all about SES and not race.

No, we cannot. We can agree that it is ALSO about SES, but those things cannot be separated in the United States when you are talking about education.

This is step #2

I meant step #1.

Off to find some afternoon coffee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the only way for AA students to succeed is to be taken out of their environment. Because what really fails them is not the government, but their own families and community.

Their families make very bad choices like getting pregnant in high school, end up living in poverty, unable to take care of the kids, unable to educate them. Kids grow up among neglect, abuse, bad role models and lack of education values. And no school can fix it.

Are you suggesting that all Black kids should be taken away from their parents?

I very much hope not, but that's what it sounds like.

I am not the OP but there is a lot of truth in the statement. Unless, as a family and as a community those vicious cycles arent broken, there is not much schools can do. He/she is right, no school can fix this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the only way for AA students to succeed is to be taken out of their environment. Because what really fails them is not the government, but their own families and community.

Their families make very bad choices like getting pregnant in high school, end up living in poverty, unable to take care of the kids, unable to educate them. Kids grow up among neglect, abuse, bad role models and lack of education values. And no school can fix it.

Are you suggesting that all Black kids should be taken away from their parents?

I very much hope not, but that's what it sounds like.

I am not the OP but there is a lot of truth in the statement. Unless, as a family and as a community those vicious cycles arent broken, there is not much schools can do. He/she is right, no school can fix this.

No. There is not. The PP is suggesting that the "only" way for Black kids to succeed in school is for them to be taken away from their parents and community. There is no truth whatsoever in that statement. None. Zero.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the only way for AA students to succeed is to be taken out of their environment. Because what really fails them is not the government, but their own families and community.

Their families make very bad choices like getting pregnant in high school, end up living in poverty, unable to take care of the kids, unable to educate them. Kids grow up among neglect, abuse, bad role models and lack of education values. And no school can fix it.

Are you suggesting that all Black kids should be taken away from their parents?

I very much hope not, but that's what it sounds like.

I am not the OP but there is a lot of truth in the statement. Unless, as a family and as a community those vicious cycles arent broken, there is not much schools can do. He/she is right, no school can fix this.

Agreed. I live in neighborhood in DC where it's a daily occurrence to see a teen mom walking down the sidewalk with her child, yelling and snapping at her child, using every curse word at her disposal, and certainly not in hushed tones. No shame. No sense of the awesome responsibility she has in serving as her child's parent. Can't imagine those kids are EVER read a book before bed. How do schools fix that level of abuse and neglect? The sad cycle continues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the only way for AA students to succeed is to be taken out of their environment. Because what really fails them is not the government, but their own families and community.

Their families make very bad choices like getting pregnant in high school, end up living in poverty, unable to take care of the kids, unable to educate them. Kids grow up among neglect, abuse, bad role models and lack of education values. And no school can fix it.

Are you suggesting that all Black kids should be taken away from their parents?

I very much hope not, but that's what it sounds like.

I am not the OP but there is a lot of truth in the statement. Unless, as a family and as a community those vicious cycles arent broken, there is not much schools can do. He/she is right, no school can fix this.

Agreed. I live in neighborhood in DC where it's a daily occurrence to see a teen mom walking down the sidewalk with her child, yelling and snapping at her child, using every curse word at her disposal, and certainly not in hushed tones. No shame. No sense of the awesome responsibility she has in serving as her child's parent. Can't imagine those kids are EVER read a book before bed. How do schools fix that level of abuse and neglect? The sad cycle continues.

I live in a neighborhood in DC where I also see young mothers walking down the sidewalks with young children, sometimes cursing, sometimes loud. I do not for a single second pretend that those moms are representative of the whole Black community, nor do I believe that the children should be removed from their mother because she yells at them and swears, and I certainly am not making any assumptions about whether or not she reads to them before bed.

Since apparently anecdotes are persuasive to you, I know several young single moms who live in my neighborhood. I've heard them curse at their kids. I also had a TWO HOUR conversation with one of them about preschool options in our neighborhood, when I saw her at the library, with her kids. I saw her again later, at the grocery store, with half a dozen children's books in the basket under her child's stroller. She was hurrying home to get her kids to bed. It was 7pm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the only way for AA students to succeed is to be taken out of their environment. Because what really fails them is not the government, but their own families and community.

Their families make very bad choices like getting pregnant in high school, end up living in poverty, unable to take care of the kids, unable to educate them. Kids grow up among neglect, abuse, bad role models and lack of education values. And no school can fix it.

Are you suggesting that all Black kids should be taken away from their parents?

I very much hope not, but that's what it sounds like.

I am not the OP but there is a lot of truth in the statement. Unless, as a family and as a community those vicious cycles arent broken, there is not much schools can do. He/she is right, no school can fix this.

Agreed. I live in neighborhood in DC where it's a daily occurrence to see a teen mom walking down the sidewalk with her child, yelling and snapping at her child, using every curse word at her disposal, and certainly not in hushed tones. No shame. No sense of the awesome responsibility she has in serving as her child's parent. Can't imagine those kids are EVER read a book before bed. How do schools fix that level of abuse and neglect? The sad cycle continues.

I live in a neighborhood in DC where I also see young mothers walking down the sidewalks with young children, sometimes cursing, sometimes loud. I do not for a single second pretend that those moms are representative of the whole Black community, nor do I believe that the children should be removed from their mother because she yells at them and swears, and I certainly am not making any assumptions about whether or not she reads to them before bed.

Since apparently anecdotes are persuasive to you, I know several young single moms who live in my neighborhood. I've heard them curse at their kids. I also had a TWO HOUR conversation with one of them about preschool options in our neighborhood, when I saw her at the library, with her kids. I saw her again later, at the grocery store, with half a dozen children's books in the basket under her child's stroller. She was hurrying home to get her kids to bed. It was 7pm.

Lovely hallmark anecdote. Call This American Life...they'll follow her around for a week.

[Anonymous]

Two whole hours, huh? Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two whole hours, huh? Wow.

Sure. Two hours of actual conversation. I know it's not "seeing people walking down the street" though so I can see why you'd be dismissive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the only way for AA students to succeed is to be taken out of their environment. Because what really fails them is not the government, but their own families and community.

Their families make very bad choices like getting pregnant in high school, end up living in poverty, unable to take care of the kids, unable to educate them. Kids grow up among neglect, abuse, bad role models and lack of education values. And no school can fix it.

Are you suggesting that all Black kids should be taken away from their parents?

I very much hope not, but that's what it sounds like.

I am not the OP but there is a lot of truth in the statement. Unless, as a family and as a community those vicious cycles arent broken, there is not much schools can do. He/she is right, no school can fix this.

Agreed. I live in neighborhood in DC where it's a daily occurrence to see a teen mom walking down the sidewalk with her child, yelling and snapping at her child, using every curse word at her disposal, and certainly not in hushed tones. No shame. No sense of the awesome responsibility she has in serving as her child's parent. Can't imagine those kids are EVER read a book before bed. How do schools fix that level of abuse and neglect? The sad cycle continues.

I live in a neighborhood in DC where I also see young mothers walking down the sidewalks with young children, sometimes cursing, sometimes loud. I do not for a single second pretend that those moms are representative of the whole Black community, nor do I believe that the children should be removed from their mother because she yells at them and swears, and I certainly am not making any assumptions about whether or not she reads to them before bed.

Since apparently anecdotes are persuasive to you, I know several young single moms who live in my neighborhood. I've heard them curse at their kids. I also had a TWO HOUR conversation with one of them about preschool options in our neighborhood, when I saw her at the library, with her kids. I saw her again later, at the grocery store, with half a dozen children's books in the basket under her child's stroller. She was hurrying home to get her kids to bed. It was 7pm.

any parent who talks to their kids like that in public is probably a monster private, doesn't matter what time she gets her kids to bed. And yes, a LOT more kids should be taken from their parents, a lot sooner before permanent damage is done. FFS, a judge has Relisha Rudds mom on probation to determine if she should get her other kids back. WTF? THis is a mom who sold her kids for money, drugs whatever. She doens't care about her kids, school or even have a normal capacity for love. She herself was victimized in foster care her whole life. So yes, maybe just maybe the cycle could have been broken if these kids were removed much much sooner. Babies are always easier to adopt out than a 12 year who has been abused for 12 years straight. NO ONE said all black kids should be taken from their parents. There are plenty of white kids who need to be taken from their families too. A year ago there was a huge thread on DCUM about a Post article on an impoverished family in Kentucky, the kids were starving and living off of mountain dew. There was a baby in the family and all I could think was how selfish that mom was to not at least let the baby have a chance. Good social services would encourage this. There are thousands of families dying to adopt babies in this country. We might as well let them pay folks for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the only way for AA students to succeed is to be taken out of their environment. Because what really fails them is not the government, but their own families and community.

Their families make very bad choices like getting pregnant in high school, end up living in poverty, unable to take care of the kids, unable to educate them. Kids grow up among neglect, abuse, bad role models and lack of education values. And no school can fix it.

Are you suggesting that all Black kids should be taken away from their parents?

I very much hope not, but that's what it sounds like.

I am not the OP but there is a lot of truth in the statement. Unless, as a family and as a community those vicious cycles arent broken, there is not much schools can do. He/she is right, no school can fix this.

Agreed. I live in neighborhood in DC where it's a daily occurrence to see a teen mom walking down the sidewalk with her child, yelling and snapping at her child, using every curse word at her disposal, and certainly not in hushed tones. No shame. No sense of the awesome responsibility she has in serving as her child's parent. Can't imagine those kids are EVER read a book before bed. How do schools fix that level of abuse and neglect? The sad cycle continues.

Here is the thing who do you picture when you describe this anecdote? I picture my aunt who is white, was a teen mom and a disaster as a parent. But the thing is she came from a family where here mom was a teen mom but 4 of her brothers went to college, had very successful jobs i.e. million dollar companies and two brothers are a mess drugs, prison etc. My uncles are pretty sure that they are different because they made the right decisions and my aunt and her kids are a disaster because she did not. But they were out of the house when my grandparents divorced, they did not deal with other issues that happened after the divorce. I think context and decisions all matter and sometimes people make out and others don't it will always be that way. So the question is how to we help the next generation and in my mind it is not creating such an punitive context that kids can't escape their parents decisions. Thus in the context that started this discussion, the question arises as to how you can give kids opportunity and desegregated schools help, those who fight that option really are part of the problem. None of us think this solves all issues but it can matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that the only way for AA students to succeed is to be taken out of their environment. Because what really fails them is not the government, but their own families and community.

Their families make very bad choices like getting pregnant in high school, end up living in poverty, unable to take care of the kids, unable to educate them. Kids grow up among neglect, abuse, bad role models and lack of education values. And no school can fix it.

Are you suggesting that all Black kids should be taken away from their parents?

I very much hope not, but that's what it sounds like.

I am not the OP but there is a lot of truth in the statement. Unless, as a family and as a community those vicious cycles arent broken, there is not much schools can do. He/she is right, no school can fix this.

Agreed. I live in neighborhood in DC where it's a daily occurrence to see a teen mom walking down the sidewalk with her child, yelling and snapping at her child, using every curse word at her disposal, and certainly not in hushed tones. No shame. No sense of the awesome responsibility she has in serving as her child's parent. Can't imagine those kids are EVER read a book before bed. How do schools fix that level of abuse and neglect? The sad cycle continues.

I live in a neighborhood in DC where I also see young mothers walking down the sidewalks with young children, sometimes cursing, sometimes loud. I do not for a single second pretend that those moms are representative of the whole Black community, nor do I believe that the children should be removed from their mother because she yells at them and swears, and I certainly am not making any assumptions about whether or not she reads to them before bed.

Since apparently anecdotes are persuasive to you, I know several young single moms who live in my neighborhood. I've heard them curse at their kids. I also had a TWO HOUR conversation with one of them about preschool options in our neighborhood, when I saw her at the library, with her kids. I saw her again later, at the grocery store, with half a dozen children's books in the basket under her child's stroller. She was hurrying home to get her kids to bed. It was 7pm.

any parent who talks to their kids like that in public is probably a monster private, doesn't matter what time she gets her kids to bed. And yes, a LOT more kids should be taken from their parents, a lot sooner before permanent damage is done. FFS, a judge has Relisha Rudds mom on probation to determine if she should get her other kids back. WTF? THis is a mom who sold her kids for money, drugs whatever. She doens't care about her kids, school or even have a normal capacity for love. She herself was victimized in foster care her whole life. So yes, maybe just maybe the cycle could have been broken if these kids were removed much much sooner. Babies are always easier to adopt out than a 12 year who has been abused for 12 years straight. NO ONE said all black kids should be taken from their parents. There are plenty of white kids who need to be taken from their families too. A year ago there was a huge thread on DCUM about a Post article on an impoverished family in Kentucky, the kids were starving and living off of mountain dew. There was a baby in the family and all I could think was how selfish that mom was to not at least let the baby have a chance. Good social services would encourage this. There are thousands of families dying to adopt babies in this country. We might as well let them pay folks for them.

You say "no one said all black kids should be taken from their parents" but that's actually what the original PP said:

"I think that the only way for AA students to succeed is to be taken out of their environment."

Now you are talking about taking black babies away from their parents because their parents swear at them, so that you can sell those babies to adoptive families, who I assume are white, since you seem to agree with the original PP who thinks that the only way that back children can succeed is to take them away from the black community. Which is exactly what she said and exactly what you agreed to.

I hope you do not work in social services or education, in any capacity.

[Anonymous]

trying to have any discussion over the internet is a waste of time