Bilingual Kids in Language Immersion ES Programs, Which Programs Have Many & Strive to Attract Them?
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Anonymous
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Another long time YY parent here--I too wonder sometime about the "face" of the school at open house events, etc. I also wish they had more Chinese administrators. Every single parent, and I do mean every single one, wishes there were more Chinese native speakers there.
But there is an equally strong current that wants the school to literally reflect DC's population, which the school does for sure. |
Anonymous
Any Chinese administrators. |
Anonymous
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I often marvel how far we have come from when I was a kid. I'm sure my parents didn't give a second thought to which school my siblings and I would attend. The almost certainly never attended a PTA meeting, and we private wouldn't have been on the table even if we could afford it.
Now, the norm among most parents I know is to extensively research schools, worry about your IB school, attend multiple open houses at charters and schools where you're OOB, and of course, worry about transporting your kids to and from school and before/after care since so many households have two working parents. I had thought that most people did all this because they worried about finding a quality school where their kids would be challenged to excel. Little did I know that in addition to all of the above I should be worried about finding a school where I feel "comfortable" as a parent. Go figure. |
Anonymous
I'm glad you revised this statement in your next post to it is NOT a thorn in the side of everyone. I'd love a spot for my kid at YY, I'm not AA, but I was actually very impressed with the AA Admin/Principal at YY at the open house, and I was really alarmed when I first read your post that in a public school in a city where the majority of the public school population is AA, that there would be a school like YY where a large portion of the parents would NOT want an AA Admin. Being qualified and being a good leader are obviously the most important qualities, but given what YY has accomplished in its short life as a school, as a prospective parent I have no reason to think the current Admin is not really good. I'm sure there are issues - no principal is loved by every single parent. And I do understand the desire for Chinese Admins/senior staff, and if we get in there I'll be anxious to contribute to ideas on expanding the search for qualified Chinese leaders. But I got seriously worried when I read your post, would hate to think a significant % of YYs parent body has an issue with an AA Admin at a public charter school in DC, and yes, at a Chinese language public charter in DC! |
Anonymous
This is quite telling. These threads always seem to come out the same. Nobody complains about YY's ability to teach Mandarin. The basic complaint is that YY isn't Chinese enough for the Chinese because there are not: 1. More ethnic Chinese families 2. Chinese administrators 3. Extra support for dialect speakers #1 is blamed on #2 & 3, along with complaints that YY doesn't do enough to cater to or reach out to native speakers: 4. By having more Chinese people at open houses or other events. 5. By having the open house in Chinese. 6. (and the worst example from a thread last year) Having an AA principal offends some racist Chinese people Of course, you don't complain that your IB school doesn't have these things, and other posters have said the same about MoCo. So what makes you any less comfortable at Yu Ying than at any other school run by non-Chinese administrators with few dialect speakers and no support for them (other than ESL if appropriate)? You say it yourself -- because Yu Ying is teaching "your own language and culture." What you view as Yu Ying's sins all stem from the fact that non-Chinese started a Chinese immersion school. When you say your DH had to walk on eggshells and not seem demanding or entitled, what you mean is that he had to suppress the urge to be demanding and entitled, because he thinks he knows better than the white/AA administrators/PA leadership what makes a good Chinese school. I'm not trying to attack you. Think back to college when you had that class where there was an older student who thought that his or her experience in the army or as an engineer or simply by being 50 years old gave him some special insight into history or government or literature or whatever the subject was. You know you had that person. We all did. If you went to law school you definitely know what I'm talking about. That's who you are. But the truth is that you've never run a Mandarin immersion school either, and likely have never run any school. So go ahead and have your opinions about how YY should do this or that to cater to native speakers, but don't pretend that those opinions aren't a symptom of feeling like you should be treated special as compared to white or AA parents. It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Mrs. Costanza is upset because she learns that "Donna Chang" isn't Chinese and decides to ignore her advice -- "I thought I was getting advice from a Chinese woman!" You kids could be taught in Mandarin 5 days out of 10. Does it really matter if the principal (a qualified and experienced administrator BTW) doesn't speak it? |
Anonymous
The mom who left again. It hit us one day that since we do have school choice, unlike our poor parents, and were finding YY a psychological hassle, despite our best efforts to like it, we could go. We knew that the PA doesn't hire staff, and learned that nobody much with the power to do so cares if YY has an ethnic administrator (at least not without the PA pushing like mad for this for a long time, not the case while we were there). We still don't understand why every charter needs a population that closely mirrors the entire city's, when maintaining such a study body doesn't serve the mission of the school--teaching Chinese to kids--as well as having many bilingual Chinese onboard would. Our kids now learn Mandarin from Cantonese at a weekend school in Rockville. They race ahead with Mandarin because the weekend program builds intelligently on their extensive Cantonese-speaking skills. What's the point of stressing that parents want more native speakers when the school community hasn't put its money where its mouth is on this front? We could have made all sorts of practical suggestions to YY on how to draw in bilingual families if we hadn't been risking unpleasantness if we did. More bilingual families is great in theory, but in practice it gets messy. As the previous PP pointed out quite rightly in describing how his narrow-minded ILs think, immigrant Chinese who teach their children dialects at home tend to be a fairly insular bunch. They don't buy into pluralism and civic-mindedness en masse to meet YY's current standards for these qualities. A few will, but most will not. Look, we love our easy-going IB school, so all's well that ends well for us. |
Anonymous
Wow. Actually, the bolded tells me YY is absolutely doing the right thing. I'm truly glad you have choices and were able to make a change and find a school that fit your family's values and educational priorities. AND... your quote in bold about not understanding why it's important to have charters that were founded to serve the population of the city reflect the population of the city... if i ever get my kid into YY, I will be thrilled if their dedication to this critical and essential aspect of why charters in DC were founded in the first place continues to drive parents like you out. Ethinic Chinese or not. From what I am learning about bilingual ed, it IS important to find ways to increase the bilingual student population of the school, and if we get into any of the bilingual charter schools we're applying to, we look forward to being parent champions in that fight. But never, ever at the cost of the founding mission of DC's charters to serve and reflect the student body. That is why you can't test in, that is why it's open to every resident of the District to apply. That is why some schools recruit in Ward 8 and Ward 7 as well as elsewhere. I think recruiting among the local Cantonese Chinese community is a great idea, even though I understand many Cantonese-speaking Chinese don't feel welcome at YY and that is something that would be great to see change. But parents like you who a) don't get the mission and reasons for the existence of DC charters, and who would b) change the basics with not even a 2nd thought if it served YOUR purposes, even though YY is already serving a smaller % of FARMS kids than most charters, I hope parents like you continue to be driven out. Of ALL DC charters. Because your presence hurts more than helps the student body. And that is recognizing that this isn't purely a class or race/ethnicity issue, it is a perspective issue. I think mixed class and mixed race/ethnicity is awesome. But all charter schools can do without the "What's the big deal with having the student body be reflective of the city?" parents who actually enroll and still don't get it. Good riddance, and you're happier too, so it's truly a win-win! Love win-wins! 
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Anonymous
Refreshingly honest and straightforward. So you think the reason that there aren't more immigrant families is that there's a fundamental clash in values. YY values diversity and nondiscrimination, immigrant families want homogeneity and discrimination. But isn't the solution to educate immigrant families about these values--positive values that are held by most Americans and that their children will have whether they like it or not--rather than cater to the outdated and negative (and even racist) values they have now? Is that the kind of ideas you could have shared? Or were they along the lines of "lose the AA principal and hire someone Chinese"? |
Anonymous
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PP, but if we are going to educate immigrant families (your words) -- let's say we agree on that goal -- then how does that happen? If there is no one who is willing to, literally, speak their language?
I find much to like about YY (and yes, I have a child at the school) -- but there is a stubbornness, a wilfulness in the administration on some of these issues that I find disheartening. Why can't they tell us how many self-identified Asian students there are the school? Don't tell me it's not relevant or that you don't keep track. That's simply not true. It is totally relevant (in fact and as well as for what it means PR-wise and psychologically) and someone does keep track of the numbers. Why are the barriers always being thrown up? Why isn't there a single person -- administrator, teacher or parent -- at the open houses that speaks Mandarin, if the core mission of the school, the whole reason it exists and stands apart from all other DCPS or DCPC schools is to TEACH MANDARIN? Wouldn't you want to highlight your strength, your core mission? |
Anonymous
I don't think your comparison quite holds. An older student doesn't automatically have greater insight into any subject area simply on account of his or her age. A native speaker of Mandarin does in fact automatically have a better, more accurate and more substantiated opinion on whether the school delivers quality instruction in Mandarin and Chinese culture simply on account of being a native carrier of that language and culture - effectively, a final outcome of what YY is aiming to produce, among other things (kids completely fluent in Mandarin and Chinese culture). They may not know better how to get to that point, but they are certainly better equipped than you and I to make a judgment on whether this goal has been attained. I don't have a dog in this fight, and it is very clear to me that YY and Chinese families have what you call an existential conflict. YY is a charter school. As such, it is mandated to offer non-discriminatory admissions to everyone - from those born to two Chinese parents to those whose only exposure to China is wearing sneakers made there. That's one incontrovertible fact. Presence of native speakers/native Chinese in an immersion language school improves acquisition of this language and culture. That, too, is an incontrovertible fact. These two facts are at loggerheads. But one is law, and the other isn't. So the non-law must yield to law. I am a parent of a trilingual child who attends preschool with immersion in one of these languages. I very specifically sought out a preschool staffed exclusively with native speaker teachers and student rosters made at least 50% with children of first-generation immigrants. I don't care about diversity. I care about my son acquiring the language and improving it. If our preschool had to run a lottery and hire non-native speaker teachers, we wouldn't be there. I get what native Chinese families want for their children. And I also get the restrictions YY must embrace. It's an existential conflict. |
Anonymous
Your point about not being forthright about numbers of self-id'd Asian students at the school is interesting and does seem weird. Seems like the parent body should just keep pressing for that info, it does seem important, as does actual numbers of already bilingual students. But I had a different expereince of the open houses. I went to 2 YY open houses in the last several months. At one there was a Chinese woman who came in after they'd already started on the presentation. I assumed she was a prospective parent like everyone else, but I made a point of going up and saying hi and she turned out to be a YY Board member. I did not converse with her in Mandarin or Cantonese, but by her accent I'd guess she is ethnically Chinese and speaks Chinese. At the other open house there were a few visibly Asian families (i.e., maybe there were also non-Asian looking people there who spoke Chinese, I'm not going to judge on looks alone). Most seemed to be prospective parents, but a few seemed to be answering questions during the tours. So I guess my question to the current parents and others who have gone to open houses is, how are you sure there is no one there representing YY who is ethnically Chinese and speaks Chinese? In both cases it is true that no one ever introduced them (the Board member came in late), but how do you know that if there were Chinese families there, they weren't there to reach out to them? And at the other open house, that seemed to be exactly what a couple of the parents were doing to other Asian parents. But I don't know in that case 100% that they were "representing YY", I just know I heard them answering questions about the school to some non-Asian prospective parents. So are you really sure YY does not make a point at open houses to have Chinese-speaking resources there? |
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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It's really not an existential conflict. You can observe the law and still make the atmosphere of the school more embracing of ALL members of the community.
It's not preferential treatment, it's letting everyone share their ideas -- and listening with an open mind and not shutting down discussions that challenge or question or suggest. And doing what is possible within the constraints of the law. The M.O., instead, is akin to, as a PP commented, love it or leave it. Our way or the highway. Nothing in the law says don't have a Mandarin speaking parent or Board member or whatever at Open Houses, clearly identified as such, introduced as a proper part of the presentation -- not to leave attendees guessing "Is she a prospective parent? A teacher? A parent?" as another PP commented. If you are wondering whether there were Chinese speakers there to field questions or provide insight, well then, I think you answer your own question right there. |
Anonymous
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The most intelligent comment on this thread. The clash of civilizations inherent in this coflict does indeed appear intractable. An obvious solution begs for consideration: start a kick ass DCPS Chinese immersion school that works like Oyster, only make it gifted and talented/test-in to promote far higher standards than YY can support across the board, for math, English AND Chinese. Oh, and go with the immersion through MS, like the Canadians do. Please, please do this DCPS, these YY threads are just depressing. If I were a Chinese dialect-speaking immigrant, I wouldn't touch YY school with a 10-foot pole (and my family immigrated from the Balkans, making tribalism our middle name). +100. Lord Hear our Prayer. Cantonese speaker, offered YY spot early on, didn't bite, stayed IB. Guessed that we wouldn't be able to speak freely, that they wouldn't get us, that we'd feel out of place. Lost sleep over concept of extended family strenuously objecting to our heading to school w/admins who don't speak Chinese. Though, seriously, if the principal had broken out in beautiful Mandarin to YeYe and MaMa (grandpa & grandma) I'm confident I could have won them over on the AA issue, employing shaming tactics. Whatever the case. Enjoyed big Chinese New Year party at MoCo heritage school with DC families as per usual. |
Anonymous
| As a first generation Chinese American, I am really horrified at the posts here that appear to imply that a DC charter school should somehow cater to the prejudices of the immigrant community towards African Americans. Complaint about the lack of Chinese administrators and prinicipal, fine. But it is shocking that other Chinese Americans would actually say out loud that the numbers of AA students or the AA principal are reasons their "old school" grandparents are not comfortable with the school. As if a charter school--paid for by public dollars-- should cater to these prejudices?? Hello? In DC, a majority AA city, no less. Wow, I am embarassed to be associated with such thoughts. |