Overcrowding/Overenrollment Issues at top tier schools

[Anonymous]

Not sure what the original point of this post is at this point.

Yes, there are large classes, housing issues, use of TAs, etc at public universities. There are also large classes, housing issues, and use of TAs at private universities. There have been citations for both sides.

Next…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what the original point of this post is at this point.

Yes, there are large classes, housing issues, use of TAs, etc at public universities. There are also large classes, housing issues, and use of TAs at private universities. There have been citations for both sides.

Next…

Only my second post to this thread, but I imagine it’s popular partly because parents new to the college search process wish to educate themselves on the trade-offs of bigger vs smaller schools. Bigger schools might be better known and cheaper (in the case of publics), but will have more of these issues than, say, a liberal arts college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what the original point of this post is at this point.

Yes, there are large classes, housing issues, use of TAs, etc at public universities. There are also large classes, housing issues, and use of TAs at private universities. There have been citations for both sides.

Next…

Only my second post to this thread, but I imagine it’s popular partly because parents new to the college search process wish to educate themselves on the trade-offs of bigger vs smaller schools. Bigger schools might be better known and cheaper (in the case of publics), but will have more of these issues than, say, a liberal arts college.

You probably haven’t read through the entire 18 pages, but smaller private liberal art colleges have issues too.

Example Middlebury housing issues—->
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/students/retention/2023/08/02/tight-housing-middlebury-offers-students-10k-stay-away

Issues exist at all the colleges. Some smalls are closing their doors. It’s unfair to lump it a small vs large or even public vs private issue. Do your due diligence in selecting a university as best you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what the original point of this post is at this point.

Yes, there are large classes, housing issues, use of TAs, etc at public universities. There are also large classes, housing issues, and use of TAs at private universities. There have been citations for both sides.

Next…

Only my second post to this thread, but I imagine it’s popular partly because parents new to the college search process wish to educate themselves on the trade-offs of bigger vs smaller schools. Bigger schools might be better known and cheaper (in the case of publics), but will have more of these issues than, say, a liberal arts college.

Small schools may have other issues - too many athletes, too few people, remote location, etc. Choose schools based on what issues you are able to ignore and still be happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what the original point of this post is at this point.

Yes, there are large classes, housing issues, use of TAs, etc at public universities. There are also large classes, housing issues, and use of TAs at private universities. There have been citations for both sides.

Next…

Only my second post to this thread, but I imagine it’s popular partly because parents new to the college search process wish to educate themselves on the trade-offs of bigger vs smaller schools. Bigger schools might be better known and cheaper (in the case of publics), but will have more of these issues than, say, a liberal arts college.

Do you read things before posting? This actually wouldn’t bother me as the school proactively paid kids to defer for a semester rather than put them in substandard housing. According to the article, the entire issue was due to kids taking time off during Covid and then returning to school not with their entering class. The “problem” is suppose to be gone entirely by now with the graduations of the Covid classes.

You probably haven’t read through the entire 18 pages, but smaller private liberal art colleges have issues too.

Example Middlebury housing issues—->
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/students/retention/2023/08/02/tight-housing-middlebury-offers-students-10k-stay-away

Issues exist at all the colleges. Some smalls are closing their doors. It’s unfair to lump it a small vs large or even public vs private issue. Do your due diligence in selecting a university as best you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what the original point of this post is at this point.

Yes, there are large classes, housing issues, use of TAs, etc at public universities. There are also large classes, housing issues, and use of TAs at private universities. There have been citations for both sides.

Next…

Only my second post to this thread, but I imagine it’s popular partly because parents new to the college search process wish to educate themselves on the trade-offs of bigger vs smaller schools. Bigger schools might be better known and cheaper (in the case of publics), but will have more of these issues than, say, a liberal arts college.

You probably haven’t read through the entire 18 pages, but smaller private liberal art colleges have issues too.

Example Middlebury housing issues—->
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/students/retention/2023/08/02/tight-housing-middlebury-offers-students-10k-stay-away

Issues exist at all the colleges. Some smalls are closing their doors. It’s unfair to lump it a small vs large or even public vs private issue. Do your due diligence in selecting a university as best you can.

The Middlebury problems stemmed from too many students who took time off during Covid coming back at once. That seems like a one off. There are indeed “issues” at all schools, but this thread is about overcrowding issues. There’s more overcrowding at larger schools than at smaller ones. There are different problems at small schools. Hence the aforementioned “trade offs.”

[Anonymous]

Midd issue is gone/resolved.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The UCs have gotten the most flak but it is pretty easy to find issue with any mega large state school. Take UFlorida. They don’t even guarantee on campus housing to freshman and offer a number of classes, including core business major classes, as online classes. The school actually offers a program to kids not offered regular admission where the entire first year of classes.

The big public classes do a decent job of educating at ton of in state at a relatively low price, Florida schools are often free to students with strong grades. But there are trade offs that often make the oos price unpalatable to some families.

I personally am not aware of similar complaints about Michigan other than it is difficult to be admitted to certain popular majors. Unlike the others, Michigan has a very large percentage oos students so perhaps they have the money and local cost of living that prevents some of these issues.

It's hard to believe OOS parents would opt to pay for this type of 'education' if you can even call it that. We all lived through online schooling during Covid. We all KNOW it is not comparable to being in class with peers. My DC goes to a private and while recorded sessions are an option to view later, Every. Single. Class. has been in person, and taught by a professor, never once in three years has it been a TA.

What is the size of the school where your kid goes? Where do they attend that they don’t have TAs? Name the school.

Some kids need a lot of hand holding and personal attention. Everyone learns differently. Some folks prefer in person, some prefer online, independent book based learning. Some prefer independent research with little instruction to learn. To each his/her own. However, just because you prefer in person, doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone.

That said, it is NOT just an OOS issue. IMO. - It is a large university issue. Large private schools use TAs and large lecture formats too. Johns Hopkins has lecture classes of 400+ students and that typically meet 1x week with TAs for discussion.

Not all of them. USC is pretty large. Professors teach every single class.
I made the earlier comment btw not to indicate that it is an OOS issue, but that it is a large public university issue as evidenced by the many comments on this thread of several public universities struggling with their resources, and as that is the case, I do not comprehend why any parent would choose to pay elevated OOS tuition rates (in some cases approach private school tuition rates) for such an experience.

This thread with examples from Cornell and Johns Hopkins prove the issues you are highlighting are not confined to large public universities. They are issues at all universities and you need to do your research when selecting a university. That said, your theory is flawed about this being a large public university issue.

Isolated bigger lectures at private schools (none remotely approaching a 1000 students)isn’t really the same as having a multiple of issues with housing, class size, impacted majors, online classes, inability to get required classes, lack of advising, etc. .. You have to look at the whole picture.

DP. Once again: my kids attend three different large state schools. None of them have had any of the issues you describe. They’ve had in-person advising from prior to their freshman year. The advisors have helped them map out their four year plan and they are all on track to graduate in four years. No overcrowding issues either. And most definitely, no classes even approaching this ridiculous “1000” number some of you love to keep repeating.

In short, it sounds like you heard something on Reddit about one state school and have decided it must apply to all of them. It doesn’t. Get a grip.

You need to get a grip, no one said these were issues at all state schools.

Actually, quite a few posters said exactly that. Though maybe it's just one poster sock puppetting.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Again, I don’t see anyone denying that impacted majors exist, that housing is a big issue at nearly all of the UC’s (apart from UCLA’s triples), that there are in fact some classes with more than 1000 kids enrolled, etc. . . We are just being told it doesn’t matter, which of course is personal opinion. To me, it matters.

DP. I have no connection with UCLA or any school in CA. However, I find it laughable that you keep insisting there are some classes with "more than 1000 kids enrolled." Please provide a citation. And virtual classes do not count. Show us one school that has a lecture hall of 1000 or more students.

I don’t know for sure but if I were running an underfunded under resourced school, I might open registration to hundreds more kids than the physical spaces on campus allow, and then just leave it up to the kids to make it a free for all get to class 35 minutes early to get a seat or be SOL. Because I would really GAF about the individual students as I succumb to the pressures of trying to handle the masses.

Just my guess.

Or, are those student stories fiction?

I'm still waiting for the citations showing which universities have "1000 students in a class." Because we all know that's a complete lie.

Berkeley Computer Science 61 A and 61B has well over a 1000 students enrolled. Not sure what you mean by “virtual classes” but I would avoid schools that teach in that method. We all know its a poor substitute for in person teaching after Covid remote learning. Econ 1 and Poly Sci 179 also have more than 500 students.

You know exactly what is meant by virtual classes and even in 2024, most universities still have some of their sections online. Also, where is your link/citation?

DP disregard this request. No citation needed. I believe the previous poster. It’s specific enough that it has to be true.
Booster, Why don’t you provide citation that refutes the fact?

I’m the PP and in no way am I a “booster” for the UCs. But it is irresponsible to throw out information without citations to show you’re not making things up. Pretty arrogant of you to tell others to “disregard” someone else’s request for citations/proof. That tells me right away that you’re probably just lying. *shrug*

I’m the poster that provided two citations for the 1000 person classes you were adamant didn’t exist. Still living in lala land apparently.

You did not provide any citations. You just listed the classes - no links.

Go back and reread, there are two additional posts on that page with links. Or use google.

By the way, your sock puppeting would be less obvious if your tone wasn’t so contemptuous.

I'm not the person sock puppetting - hint hint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Again, I don’t see anyone denying that impacted majors exist, that housing is a big issue at nearly all of the UC’s (apart from UCLA’s triples), that there are in fact some classes with more than 1000 kids enrolled, etc. . . We are just being told it doesn’t matter, which of course is personal opinion. To me, it matters.

DP. I have no connection with UCLA or any school in CA. However, I find it laughable that you keep insisting there are some classes with "more than 1000 kids enrolled." Please provide a citation. And virtual classes do not count. Show us one school that has a lecture hall of 1000 or more students.

I don’t know for sure but if I were running an underfunded under resourced school, I might open registration to hundreds more kids than the physical spaces on campus allow, and then just leave it up to the kids to make it a free for all get to class 35 minutes early to get a seat or be SOL. Because I would really GAF about the individual students as I succumb to the pressures of trying to handle the masses.

Just my guess.

Or, are those student stories fiction?

I'm still waiting for the citations showing which universities have "1000 students in a class." Because we all know that's a complete lie.

+1
None of my kids attend a UC but this thread sure is entertaining with its exaggerations and expectation that no one will question the numbers.

NP. There are definitely UC classes with over 1000 students. Here’s one with over 2000.

https://www.dailycal.org/archives/cs-61a-course-enrollment-reaches-an-all-time-high-at-2-000-students/article_2b46713f-a60f-592b-8080-3f5793786de2.html

THANK YOU. Now here is someone who knows how to provide a link.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure what the original point of this post is at this point.

Yes, there are large classes, housing issues, use of TAs, etc at public universities. There are also large classes, housing issues, and use of TAs at private universities. There have been citations for both sides.

Next…

Only my second post to this thread, but I imagine it’s popular partly because parents new to the college search process wish to educate themselves on the trade-offs of bigger vs smaller schools. Bigger schools might be better known and cheaper (in the case of publics), but will have more of these issues than, say, a liberal arts college.

Small schools may have other issues - too many athletes, too few people, remote location, etc. Choose schools based on what issues you are able to ignore and still be happy.

+1
And dozens of small schools are closing because they just don't have the endowment.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-05/distress-soars-at-small-us-colleges-as-enrollment-declines

[Anonymous]

Since you want to believe Middlebury is a one-off issue, here’s an article about Tufts housing issues and how students were housed in hotels in 1977 and 2021.

https://www.tuftsdaily.com/article/2023/09/learning-from-our-mistakes-the-tufts-housing-crises-re-examined

[Anonymous]

Oh and the Tufts housing crisis in 1987 had doubles converted to triples. Sound familiar….

[Anonymous]

And as noted on a earlier page, Wesleyan has struggled with housing issues. Wes also had to resort to double rooms becoming triples and having to take over a hotel to accommoade its students.

[Anonymous]

UC Schools have not standards for admission anymore and they admit you for having a pulse. They got rid of SATs and now admit people solely based on GPA which is also meaningless (at most schools) now that HS give out A's like candy. Woke people against standardized testing destroyed what was used to be a top tier university system.