Equitable access to advanced math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous to extrapolate out that the entire state of VA would follow in the path of a single school district in CA.

They weren't following the school district. Both were following from common sources pushing detracking. They even had some of these sources on their website. And of course you support the same detracking.

Which is why the comparison is so misleading.

Alabama also followed the same source but didn’t implement tracking. Taking some recommendations from a source doesn’t mean following every single recommendation. Or forcing it so widely across a large, diverse state.

It was a low-priority topic of conversation. 98% of the discussion and 100% of the infographic was around expanding offerings/additional pathways and integrated math.

[Anonymous]

And let’s say the VMPI leaders went rogue and ignored all input from parents and schools over this multi-year process and did include a ban of all accelerated/advanced math classes across the entire state of VA in their final proposal…it still would have to pass the GA and be signed by the governor. You think they’d approve an unpopular proposal?

This is 100% fearmongering. Totally irrational and politically motivated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems disappointing that the major of AAP kids do not get into Algebra 1 in 7th grade. Shouldn’t that have been the aim of AAP? Here’s this set of kids (many whom have had Kumon classes since Pre-K) not able to perform well enough to get Algebra in 7th.

+1. It’s very telling. These kids are in so-called advanced math, take lots of tutoring and outside math, and still fail to make the advancement from math6/7 to Algebra. Either the kids are not really accelerated/capable or the teaching is awful. Or both!

Or the standards to place into algebra 1 in 7th are unreasonably high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe some gullible people got caught up in it but the falsehoods and outrageous speculation around it were definitely pushed hard by the RWNJs. Including Youngkin.

Gullible enough to listen to what they were saying and what they were pushing on their website. One person posted here an e-mail received from Tina Mazzacane explaining what they were doing.
"VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated."
She put up a poll in one seminar and when teachers objected to detracking, she said 'We still have a lot of work to do."

They only backtracked after Ian Serotkin posted Loudoun's math pathways graphic to Facebook, and it appeared on Fox News. And the governor realized it could hurt McAuliffe's campaign.
They also canceled the planned video of math and equity.

Right. The RWNJs pushed falsehoods and wild speculation in an effort to garner votes.

Speaking of wild speculation…even if that email were true, that doesn’t mean VDOE would “ban” districts from offering advanced/acceleration options.

Instead of having a rational discussion about updating the math standards, the right made VMPI some kind of boogeyman that had to be destroyed. Even today people still think it’s a thing. Look at this thread.

Tina Mazzacane: "We intend to eliminate tracking"

You: "That doesn't mean they intended to eliminate tracking!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems disappointing that the major of AAP kids do not get into Algebra 1 in 7th grade. Shouldn’t that have been the aim of AAP? Here’s this set of kids (many whom have had Kumon classes since Pre-K) not able to perform well enough to get Algebra in 7th.

+1. It’s very telling. These kids are in so-called advanced math, take lots of tutoring and outside math, and still fail to make the advancement from math6/7 to Algebra. Either the kids are not really accelerated/capable or the teaching is awful. Or both!

Or the standards to place into algebra 1 in 7th are unreasonably high.

They're really not. Have you seen the free IAAT questions on the web? They're mostly a joke. 500+ on the SOL is also a joke.
The main reason that kids cannot do well on these is due to the horrible way that math is taught in elementary school. These poor kids learn almost nothing. It's a combination of teachers who can't explain simple concepts + ST Math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe some gullible people got caught up in it but the falsehoods and outrageous speculation around it were definitely pushed hard by the RWNJs. Including Youngkin.

Gullible enough to listen to what they were saying and what they were pushing on their website. One person posted here an e-mail received from Tina Mazzacane explaining what they were doing.
"VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated."
She put up a poll in one seminar and when teachers objected to detracking, she said 'We still have a lot of work to do."

They only backtracked after Ian Serotkin posted Loudoun's math pathways graphic to Facebook, and it appeared on Fox News. And the governor realized it could hurt McAuliffe's campaign.
They also canceled the planned video of math and equity.

Right. The RWNJs pushed falsehoods and wild speculation in an effort to garner votes.

Speaking of wild speculation…even if that email were true, that doesn’t mean VDOE would “ban” districts from offering advanced/acceleration options.

Instead of having a rational discussion about updating the math standards, the right made VMPI some kind of boogeyman that had to be destroyed. Even today people still think it’s a thing. Look at this thread.

Tina Mazzacane: "We intend to eliminate tracking"

You: "That doesn't mean they intended to eliminate tracking!"

She never said that. She certainly never said VDOE would ban advanced/accelerated options for every k-12 public in VA.

Irrational fearmongering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe some gullible people got caught up in it but the falsehoods and outrageous speculation around it were definitely pushed hard by the RWNJs. Including Youngkin.

Gullible enough to listen to what they were saying and what they were pushing on their website. One person posted here an e-mail received from Tina Mazzacane explaining what they were doing.
"VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated."
She put up a poll in one seminar and when teachers objected to detracking, she said 'We still have a lot of work to do."

They only backtracked after Ian Serotkin posted Loudoun's math pathways graphic to Facebook, and it appeared on Fox News. And the governor realized it could hurt McAuliffe's campaign.
They also canceled the planned video of math and equity.

Right. The RWNJs pushed falsehoods and wild speculation in an effort to garner votes.

Speaking of wild speculation…even if that email were true, that doesn’t mean VDOE would “ban” districts from offering advanced/acceleration options.

Instead of having a rational discussion about updating the math standards, the right made VMPI some kind of boogeyman that had to be destroyed. Even today people still think it’s a thing. Look at this thread.

Tina Mazzacane: "We intend to eliminate tracking"

You: "That doesn't mean they intended to eliminate tracking!"

She never said that.

Then which "practice" was she referring to in this quote? "the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated"

And how could she eliminate this practice while still allowing districts to implement it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe some gullible people got caught up in it but the falsehoods and outrageous speculation around it were definitely pushed hard by the RWNJs. Including Youngkin.

Gullible enough to listen to what they were saying and what they were pushing on their website. One person posted here an e-mail received from Tina Mazzacane explaining what they were doing.
"VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated."
She put up a poll in one seminar and when teachers objected to detracking, she said 'We still have a lot of work to do."

They only backtracked after Ian Serotkin posted Loudoun's math pathways graphic to Facebook, and it appeared on Fox News. And the governor realized it could hurt McAuliffe's campaign.
They also canceled the planned video of math and equity.

Right. The RWNJs pushed falsehoods and wild speculation in an effort to garner votes.

Speaking of wild speculation…even if that email were true, that doesn’t mean VDOE would “ban” districts from offering advanced/acceleration options.

Instead of having a rational discussion about updating the math standards, the right made VMPI some kind of boogeyman that had to be destroyed. Even today people still think it’s a thing. Look at this thread.

Tina Mazzacane: "We intend to eliminate tracking"

You: "That doesn't mean they intended to eliminate tracking!"

DP.

Yes, this is indeed what happened with VMPI.

[Anonymous]

Tina Mazzacane and the others who were pushing VMPI were wholly dishonest about their motives from the start.

Once parents understood what VMPI actually was, there was bipartisan opposition to it.

If anything, Democratic voting parents tend to be more tuned into public education policy, did a deep-dive on the real issues, and sounded the alarm bells over the disaster VMPI would have been. Meanwhile, the whole MAGA crowd either sent their kids to rich private schools are are too busy watching Fox to care about public school policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe some gullible people got caught up in it but the falsehoods and outrageous speculation around it were definitely pushed hard by the RWNJs. Including Youngkin.

Gullible enough to listen to what they were saying and what they were pushing on their website. One person posted here an e-mail received from Tina Mazzacane explaining what they were doing.
"VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated."
She put up a poll in one seminar and when teachers objected to detracking, she said 'We still have a lot of work to do."

They only backtracked after Ian Serotkin posted Loudoun's math pathways graphic to Facebook, and it appeared on Fox News. And the governor realized it could hurt McAuliffe's campaign.
They also canceled the planned video of math and equity.

Right. The RWNJs pushed falsehoods and wild speculation in an effort to garner votes.

Speaking of wild speculation…even if that email were true, that doesn’t mean VDOE would “ban” districts from offering advanced/acceleration options.

Instead of having a rational discussion about updating the math standards, the right made VMPI some kind of boogeyman that had to be destroyed. Even today people still think it’s a thing. Look at this thread.

Tina Mazzacane: "We intend to eliminate tracking"

You: "That doesn't mean they intended to eliminate tracking!"

She never said that.

Then which "practice" was she referring to in this quote? "the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated"

And how could she eliminate this practice while still allowing districts to implement it?

That doesn’t mean every kid must be in the same classroom learning the same content. It could be raising those kids up with better supports. Also, “should be” could be a recommendation, not a requirement.

She never said or even implied they were going to BAN advanced/accelerated options for every k-12 in VA. Even if that’s something she personally wanted to do there was a whole multi-year process to form the proposal, go through public review, and then get passed by the GA/governor.

It’s an irrational boogeyman.

[Anonymous]

Equitable teaching for all to open access. Shouldn’t be graded or test to get the same education. Even in high school honors and ap classes are options so anyone can choose without tests and grades. equitable access can be successful and leads to increase diversity in top schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe some gullible people got caught up in it but the falsehoods and outrageous speculation around it were definitely pushed hard by the RWNJs. Including Youngkin.

Gullible enough to listen to what they were saying and what they were pushing on their website. One person posted here an e-mail received from Tina Mazzacane explaining what they were doing.
"VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated."
She put up a poll in one seminar and when teachers objected to detracking, she said 'We still have a lot of work to do."

They only backtracked after Ian Serotkin posted Loudoun's math pathways graphic to Facebook, and it appeared on Fox News. And the governor realized it could hurt McAuliffe's campaign.
They also canceled the planned video of math and equity.

Right. The RWNJs pushed falsehoods and wild speculation in an effort to garner votes.

Speaking of wild speculation…even if that email were true, that doesn’t mean VDOE would “ban” districts from offering advanced/acceleration options.

Instead of having a rational discussion about updating the math standards, the right made VMPI some kind of boogeyman that had to be destroyed. Even today people still think it’s a thing. Look at this thread.

Tina Mazzacane: "We intend to eliminate tracking"

You: "That doesn't mean they intended to eliminate tracking!"

She never said that. She certainly never said VDOE would ban advanced/accelerated options for every k-12 public in VA.

Irrational fearmongering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tina Mazzacane and the others who were pushing VMPI were wholly dishonest about their motives from the start.

Once parents understood what VMPI actually was, there was bipartisan opposition to it.

If anything, Democratic voting parents tend to be more tuned into public education policy, did a deep-dive on the real issues, and sounded the alarm bells over the disaster VMPI would have been. Meanwhile, the whole MAGA crowd either sent their kids to rich private schools are are too busy watching Fox to care about public school policy.

All of the extremely vocal anti-VA education people were Rs. Tons of astroturfing even right here in NoVA.

Some people fell victim to the boogeyman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe some gullible people got caught up in it but the falsehoods and outrageous speculation around it were definitely pushed hard by the RWNJs. Including Youngkin.

Gullible enough to listen to what they were saying and what they were pushing on their website. One person posted here an e-mail received from Tina Mazzacane explaining what they were doing.
"VMPI proposals do promote equity and that the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated."
She put up a poll in one seminar and when teachers objected to detracking, she said 'We still have a lot of work to do."

They only backtracked after Ian Serotkin posted Loudoun's math pathways graphic to Facebook, and it appeared on Fox News. And the governor realized it could hurt McAuliffe's campaign.
They also canceled the planned video of math and equity.

Right. The RWNJs pushed falsehoods and wild speculation in an effort to garner votes.

Speaking of wild speculation…even if that email were true, that doesn’t mean VDOE would “ban” districts from offering advanced/acceleration options.

Instead of having a rational discussion about updating the math standards, the right made VMPI some kind of boogeyman that had to be destroyed. Even today people still think it’s a thing. Look at this thread.

Tina Mazzacane: "We intend to eliminate tracking"

You: "That doesn't mean they intended to eliminate tracking!"

She never said that.

Then which "practice" was she referring to in this quote? "the practice of isolating low-achieving students in low-level or slower-paced mathematics groups should be eliminated"

And how could she eliminate this practice while still allowing districts to implement it?

That doesn’t mean every kid must be in the same classroom learning the same content. It could be raising those kids up with better supports. Also, “should be” could be a recommendation, not a requirement.

She never said or even implied they were going to BAN advanced/accelerated options for every k-12 in VA. Even if that’s something she personally wanted to do there was a whole multi-year process to form the proposal, go through public review, and then get passed by the GA/governor.

It’s an irrational boogeyman.

It's not irrational. It happened in California/ SF.

When someone tells you who they are, it's not irrational to believe them. It's the VPMI people's responsibility to explain their radical overhaul plan and build confidence in their vision, not everyone else's responsibility to blindly trust them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Take a look at the E3 pilot. And Tina Mazzacane works for FCPS and was a major force for VMPI. 'Practice of putting kids in inferior classes must end'.

That doesn’t mean “reduce math for all”. That was an effort to expand options. Killed by Republican propaganda.

That is not true at all.

Parents across the political and racial spectrum opposed VMPI because it was terrible policy and would have severely damaged the quality of public education in Virginia.

Agreed. VMPI did have a component that was focused on potentially expanding math options at the 11th and 12th grade levels, but it was also stated that they wanted to deemphasize calculus in HS and up until 11th grade were going to have classes where everyone taking the same classes, no acceleration/different levels. When there was an outcry about that, they tried to backpedal and say they wouldn't prohibit districts from acceleration, but it couldn't recover and got killed with the Younkin administration.

Untrue. They always included AP/IB and never said districts couldn’t accelerate kids. Someone mentioned detracking was a trend in math and (politically motivated) people falsely claimed VADOE was going to “ban” acceleration. Even if that were true, they hadn’t even come up with a proposal yet for public review.

The “public outcry” was a political machination. Maybe some gullible people joined in but at the root it was a GOP attack on education.

This is always being claimed on here, but it ignores what Loudoun implemented after close discussion with Tina Mazzacane and the VMPI group. They published a new math pathways chart, with a video titled introducing VMPI. They eliminated 6th grade algebra, and county staff said their goal was to eliminate 6th grade prealgebra, and that they believed it was important to eliminate tracking for equity reasons. Somehow Tina Mazzacane didn't respond as you are doing that there is nothing here about eliminating acceleration.

Cutting 6th grade algebra isn’t eliminating acceleration. Kids could still accelerate by 2 grade levels.

It looks like the VMPI Lady is raising her hateful voice again.

But let me point out the lack of logic here: 6th grade algebra is accelerating by only 2 grade levels if the mantra is for everyone to take algebra in 8th.
So keeping the opportunity for students with demonstrated, not "perceived" abilities, to take it in 6th is something you support, correct? Could you confirm that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Take a look at the E3 pilot. And Tina Mazzacane works for FCPS and was a major force for VMPI. 'Practice of putting kids in inferior classes must end'.

That doesn’t mean “reduce math for all”. That was an effort to expand options. Killed by Republican propaganda.

That is not true at all.

Parents across the political and racial spectrum opposed VMPI because it was terrible policy and would have severely damaged the quality of public education in Virginia.

Agreed. VMPI did have a component that was focused on potentially expanding math options at the 11th and 12th grade levels, but it was also stated that they wanted to deemphasize calculus in HS and up until 11th grade were going to have classes where everyone taking the same classes, no acceleration/different levels. When there was an outcry about that, they tried to backpedal and say they wouldn't prohibit districts from acceleration, but it couldn't recover and got killed with the Younkin administration.

Untrue. They always included AP/IB and never said districts couldn’t accelerate kids. Someone mentioned detracking was a trend in math and (politically motivated) people falsely claimed VADOE was going to “ban” acceleration. Even if that were true, they hadn’t even come up with a proposal yet for public review.

The “public outcry” was a political machination. Maybe some gullible people joined in but at the root it was a GOP attack on education.

This is always being claimed on here, but it ignores what Loudoun implemented after close discussion with Tina Mazzacane and the VMPI group. They published a new math pathways chart, with a video titled introducing VMPI. They eliminated 6th grade algebra, and county staff said their goal was to eliminate 6th grade prealgebra, and that they believed it was important to eliminate tracking for equity reasons. Somehow Tina Mazzacane didn't respond as you are doing that there is nothing here about eliminating acceleration.

Cutting 6th grade algebra isn’t eliminating acceleration. Kids could still accelerate by 2 grade levels.

It looks like the VMPI Lady is raising her hateful voice again.

But let me point out the lack of logic here: 6th grade algebra is accelerating by only 2 grade levels if the mantra is for everyone to take algebra in 8th.
So keeping the opportunity for students with demonstrated, not "perceived" abilities, to take it in 6th is something you support, correct? Could you confirm that?

If “hateful voice” means dropping facts then yes.

Independent of when others take algebra, I would support 6th grade algebra if a very high bar was used.