Isn't this entire thread evidence that these putative elite colleges are nowhere near their death, since admission to them seems to be the most desirable outcome of K-12 education, public or private?? |
Elite colleges didn't become elite because of merit admissions. You really think all those people who got admitted before now were admitted strictly on merit? I guess you don't have a problem with top colleges weighing legacy, athletic abilities and donors before test scores and merit, presumably since those advantages all heavily skew to whites. |
| the death of private schools?? The exact opposite is happening. |
| Are private school families this obnoxious throughout the country or is it just the coastal liberal morons? |
I do have to agree that the public perception of elite colleges is changing and not for the better. I have two Ivy degrees but even my opinion of these schools have declined in recent years. I have more respect for the elite colleges of the past. They were blatantly for rich kids and they didn't hide it the way they try to today with weird social engineering and simultaneously trying to pretend to be meritocratic and progressive institutions. Given that meritocracy and progressivity are increasingly decoupling, it's revealing this ugly ideological chasm that really can't be covered up much longer. The American public is much more meritocratic than progressive, and if the elite colleges firmly become progressive, then they do become niche schools and decidedly out of touch and that can catch up in ways they don't expect. I also assume the younger graduates are decidedly more ideological than soundly educated and they have to prove otherwise when I interview them. Don't worry, many do. But many don't, and that perception is growing. I no longer respect a degree from, say, Yale, the way I did 20 years ago. |
why did you respect a degree from Yale 20 years ago if it was just blatantly for rich kids? I think you could argue that admissions were less meritocratic 20 years ago than they are now. |
Different kind of hooks now from 50 years ago. Used to be legacies and selected prep schools. Now it is URMs, etc. Associating with the children of the rich and important used to be part of the perceived value. Now your hooked classmates with be URMs and Asian tennis players. So how much of an Ivy League degree's value comes from networking, how much from learning, and how much from prestige? |
man, your argument gets more and more racist every time you refine it. kudos. at least now you're admitting that it has nothing to do with merit and being 'soundly educated'. |
The "rich kid school" stereotype is from much earlier - up to the early 1960s. The 1970s-circa 2005 was the great age of meritocracy, at least the schools were at their most meritocratic. There was always elements of social engineering, but it was much smaller and less pervasive. The great bulk of students were effectively unconnected. But the "hooked" students have come to dominate so much that it's even now substantially crowding out the bright and unhooked, of which the Asian-Americans are penalized the most. The elite schools blatantly discriminate against Asian American students and even rig the admissions processes to justify the discrimination, which means it's decidedly no longer based on any real sense of merit or even a belief in a meritocracy. If the schools are no longer about merit, then I'm not sure what they are about any more. You're not necessarily going there to learn from the best and brightest any more. |
Immediate pp here. Thanks for adding. I wondered about Sidwell but don’t have as much insight or a kid there. Not surprised to hear there are lots of Asian kids there too. |
The PP's argument does not sound racist to me. It sounds honest and thought provoking. This is yet another reason why elite colleges may be on the decline, because meaningless racism banter pushes out intelligent discussion. |
URMs and Asian tennis players being the problem and their attendance devaluing an Ivy League degree isn't a race based argument? |
The point is that the absence of the children of the rich and powerful devalues Ivy League degrees, not that the presence of URMs and Asian tennis players makes the value go down. Both groups benefit or benefited from hooks. That has been one of the arguments for affirmative action in enrollments, that hooks were always there but they are being transferred from legacies to URMs and to some non-UMC students. Also, think about the most meritocratic big name schools like CalTech and MIT. How many DC private school parents are pining for their children to go to school with bunch of non-rich nerds? Where are the boasting and social climbing opportunities? |
Potomac parent here. Your statement is inaccurate. |
I am a Potomac parent. The US has lots of Asian kids. |