Anti-Racism Assembly Today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anti-racism is incompatible with qualms about a particular program’s imagery.

I agree

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I know you’re not going to like this point, but it’s the epitome of privilege to think that you should be able to set the terms for discussions of racism. This is an uncomfortable topic of conversation and it sounds like the principal did a solid amount of frontloading prior to the session.

You are welcome to your views on how racism should be discussed but if you are trying tell me that "I" and other white people MUST discuss racism without regard to how we view the conversation, then it's the epitome of foolishness to think we are ever going to engage in an honest conversation with you about anything. Doyin Richards was obnoxious, referring to hypothetical white kids as "Little Ainsley" and "Little Connor" . His disdain for White people was evident. If my pointing that out makes you think I am privileged, then please explain to everyone and me why we should allow a man like that to talk to our children like he is some kind of respected authority figure they should listen to. He is not. Shame on Janney for bringing him into this important conversation. Oh, and of course, I don't actually expect you to explain anything since, you know, I'm privileged and therefore my opinions and feelings are not worthy of your consideration. Yeah, good luck with that attitude.

TL;DR: if you don't talk about racism in a way that feels friendly and warm enough, I retain the right to remain racist, out of spite.

LOL. You wish. Just because you are a moron doesn't make me a racist. Its people like you that will make this anti-racism movement backfire in the worst way possible. And do you know what that means? It means that your perfectly normal neighbors and friends who admit they are, to an extent, racist in an effort to become an "ally in training" will instead get sick of your putting them down and "in their place". Just go on ahead and continue acting like an ass. People will only put with your shit for so long, then they will decide you are not worth the effort.

Literally you just argued that people who YOU ADMIT are somewhat racist will continue to be racist because someone was mean to them.

White are people are constantly told "this is hard work" becoming an anti-racist. The "hard work" should mean that its hard to look at your long-held assumptions, behaviors and thoughts (both conscious and unconscious) and admit they are the result of growing up White in a racist society. That IS hard for many White people to do but we are out there and willing to do THAT kind of hard work. But when the "hard work" means we have to accept that our feelings will automatically and forever be ignored - no matter what they are or why we have them - just because we are White? Yeah, that's just not normal human behavior. I'm not going to do that, and I will also make sure my children do not do that. Once you stop treating me a like a dog and getting mad because I won't accept it - then we can talk about how I can be an "ally in training"

What are the thoughts and feelings you're not allowed to express and to whom?

Np. Well, for example, anything the thoughtful PP puts in an answer to you will be dismissed, attacked, or used to promote your characterization of the PP as a racist. No one is permitted to have thoughts, feelings, or to formulate ideas that don't align with anti-racist dogma, so the only option is be silent and internalize that one's own thoughts, feelings, impressions, or ideas don't matter. No one wants to hear then.

oh this is great "i can't tell you what it is but i promise its not racist"

Well, I don't know your race. I find you to be of low intelligence and not worth engaging. You are incapable of nuanced discussion and are tiresome.

[Anonymous]

You two seriously need to peel off to a new chain.

I just don't want my kids learning what curb-stomping is until they watch American History X off my watch...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This is true. You are not required to confront racism, nor are you required to be introspective about it. You are free to continue to be racist, and apparently you can be incentivized to do this if someone was mean to you.

Spite racism: your thing, apparently.

The message is that as a white person, you will only and forever be racist purely based on the color of your skin. Your only recourse is to ponder it a lot. You cannot get rid of the stain. You can only try to atone, perpetually.

This is where it becomes religion. It's very Catholic.

This is also the whole "White Fragility" message from Diangelo.

E.g., https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/18/white-fragility-is-real-white-fragility-is-flawed/

This is the kind of pathetic whining that my ex-husband would spout all the time when anyone pointed out that he said sometime racist.

Spoiler: he’s a racist.

Look, I tried to provide articles that get into the nuance of this. You can project all you want about your ex husband.

But, you didn't read McWhorter's critique (he's Black, you know) of Diangelo's work (she's white), did you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anti-racism is incompatible with qualms about a particular program’s imagery.

I agree

I agree. But, as displayed in this thread, if you DO have qualms with teaching 3-year-olds about "curb stomping" when that "curb stomping" is discussed in an anti-racism lecture, then you are, indeed, just being racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anti-racism is incompatible with qualms about a particular program’s imagery.

I agree

I agree. But, as displayed in this thread, if you DO have qualms with teaching 3-year-olds about "curb stomping" when that "curb stomping" is discussed in an anti-racism lecture, then you are, indeed, just being racist.

And if that frustrates you, you are exhibiting white frailty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You two seriously need to peel off to a new chain.

I just don't want my kids learning what curb-stomping is until they watch American History X off my watch...

I'm impressed that people are interested in shutting down discussions about anti-racism. In seriousness, this is what we are supposed to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anti-racism is incompatible with qualms about a particular program’s imagery.

I agree

I agree. But, as displayed in this thread, if you DO have qualms with teaching 3-year-olds about "curb stomping" when that "curb stomping" is discussed in an anti-racism lecture, then you are, indeed, just being racist.

And if that frustrates you, you are exhibiting white frailty.

....which brings us back to Diangelo, who wrote the book White Fragility (hence a reason discussion of her teachings is pertinent in this dialogue).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I know you’re not going to like this point, but it’s the epitome of privilege to think that you should be able to set the terms for discussions of racism. This is an uncomfortable topic of conversation and it sounds like the principal did a solid amount of frontloading prior to the session.

You are welcome to your views on how racism should be discussed but if you are trying tell me that "I" and other white people MUST discuss racism without regard to how we view the conversation, then it's the epitome of foolishness to think we are ever going to engage in an honest conversation with you about anything. Doyin Richards was obnoxious, referring to hypothetical white kids as "Little Ainsley" and "Little Connor" . His disdain for White people was evident. If my pointing that out makes you think I am privileged, then please explain to everyone and me why we should allow a man like that to talk to our children like he is some kind of respected authority figure they should listen to. He is not. Shame on Janney for bringing him into this important conversation. Oh, and of course, I don't actually expect you to explain anything since, you know, I'm privileged and therefore my opinions and feelings are not worthy of your consideration. Yeah, good luck with that attitude.

TL;DR: if you don't talk about racism in a way that feels friendly and warm enough, I retain the right to remain racist, out of spite.

LOL. You wish. Just because you are a moron doesn't make me a racist. Its people like you that will make this anti-racism movement backfire in the worst way possible. And do you know what that means? It means that your perfectly normal neighbors and friends who admit they are, to an extent, racist in an effort to become an "ally in training" will instead get sick of your putting them down and "in their place". Just go on ahead and continue acting like an ass. People will only put with your shit for so long, then they will decide you are not worth the effort.

Literally you just argued that people who YOU ADMIT are somewhat racist will continue to be racist because someone was mean to them.

White are people are constantly told "this is hard work" becoming an anti-racist. The "hard work" should mean that its hard to look at your long-held assumptions, behaviors and thoughts (both conscious and unconscious) and admit they are the result of growing up White in a racist society. That IS hard for many White people to do but we are out there and willing to do THAT kind of hard work. But when the "hard work" means we have to accept that our feelings will automatically and forever be ignored - no matter what they are or why we have them - just because we are White? Yeah, that's just not normal human behavior. I'm not going to do that, and I will also make sure my children do not do that. Once you stop treating me a like a dog and getting mad because I won't accept it - then we can talk about how I can be an "ally in training"

What are the thoughts and feelings you're not allowed to express and to whom?

Np. Well, for example, anything the thoughtful PP puts in an answer to you will be dismissed, attacked, or used to promote your characterization of the PP as a racist. No one is permitted to have thoughts, feelings, or to formulate ideas that don't align with anti-racist dogma, so the only option is be silent and internalize that one's own thoughts, feelings, impressions, or ideas don't matter. No one wants to hear then.

DP but this playing the victim stuff is exactly what I think (but could be wrong) that others were saying earlier on this thread

This is not about playing the victim. It’s about asking humans to completely ignore some important aspects of being human (listening to others and being listened to).If you are being asked to be part of a discussion but are told that your thoughts and feelings and opinions won’t count, then it’s not really a discussion is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you’re not going to like this point, but it’s the epitome of privilege to think that you should be able to set the terms for discussions of racism. This is an uncomfortable topic of conversation and it sounds like the principal did a solid amount of frontloading prior to the session.

You are welcome to your views on how racism should be discussed but if you are trying tell me that "I" and other white people MUST discuss racism without regard to how we view the conversation, then it's the epitome of foolishness to think we are ever going to engage in an honest conversation with you about anything. Doyin Richards was obnoxious, referring to hypothetical white kids as "Little Ainsley" and "Little Connor" . His disdain for White people was evident. If my pointing that out makes you think I am privileged, then please explain to everyone and me why we should allow a man like that to talk to our children like he is some kind of respected authority figure they should listen to. He is not. Shame on Janney for bringing him into this important conversation. Oh, and of course, I don't actually expect you to explain anything since, you know, I'm privileged and therefore my opinions and feelings are not worthy of your consideration. Yeah, good luck with that attitude.

TL;DR: if you don't talk about racism in a way that feels friendly and warm enough, I retain the right to remain racist, out of spite.

LOL. You wish. Just because you are a moron doesn't make me a racist. Its people like you that will make this anti-racism movement backfire in the worst way possible. And do you know what that means? It means that your perfectly normal neighbors and friends who admit they are, to an extent, racist in an effort to become an "ally in training" will instead get sick of your putting them down and "in their place". Just go on ahead and continue acting like an ass. People will only put with your shit for so long, then they will decide you are not worth the effort.

Literally you just argued that people who YOU ADMIT are somewhat racist will continue to be racist because someone was mean to them.

White are people are constantly told "this is hard work" becoming an anti-racist. The "hard work" should mean that its hard to look at your long-held assumptions, behaviors and thoughts (both conscious and unconscious) and admit they are the result of growing up White in a racist society. That IS hard for many White people to do but we are out there and willing to do THAT kind of hard work. But when the "hard work" means we have to accept that our feelings will automatically and forever be ignored - no matter what they are or why we have them - just because we are White? Yeah, that's just not normal human behavior. I'm not going to do that, and I will also make sure my children do not do that. Once you stop treating me a like a dog and getting mad because I won't accept it - then we can talk about how I can be an "ally in training"

What are the thoughts and feelings you're not allowed to express and to whom?

Np. Well, for example, anything the thoughtful PP puts in an answer to you will be dismissed, attacked, or used to promote your characterization of the PP as a racist. No one is permitted to have thoughts, feelings, or to formulate ideas that don't align with anti-racist dogma, so the only option is be silent and internalize that one's own thoughts, feelings, impressions, or ideas don't matter. No one wants to hear then.

You are permitted to have whatever thoughts or feelings you want. It just turns out that when you express some particular thoughts, people respond negatively saying "uh, that was racist" or "wow that's weaponizing your guilt," or "you're making yourself the center of attention."

Somehow everyone else is the problem when your ONE WEIRD THOUGHT keeps getting negative responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you’re not going to like this point, but it’s the epitome of privilege to think that you should be able to set the terms for discussions of racism. This is an uncomfortable topic of conversation and it sounds like the principal did a solid amount of frontloading prior to the session.

You are welcome to your views on how racism should be discussed but if you are trying tell me that "I" and other white people MUST discuss racism without regard to how we view the conversation, then it's the epitome of foolishness to think we are ever going to engage in an honest conversation with you about anything. Doyin Richards was obnoxious, referring to hypothetical white kids as "Little Ainsley" and "Little Connor" . His disdain for White people was evident. If my pointing that out makes you think I am privileged, then please explain to everyone and me why we should allow a man like that to talk to our children like he is some kind of respected authority figure they should listen to. He is not. Shame on Janney for bringing him into this important conversation. Oh, and of course, I don't actually expect you to explain anything since, you know, I'm privileged and therefore my opinions and feelings are not worthy of your consideration. Yeah, good luck with that attitude.

TL;DR: if you don't talk about racism in a way that feels friendly and warm enough, I retain the right to remain racist, out of spite.

LOL. You wish. Just because you are a moron doesn't make me a racist. Its people like you that will make this anti-racism movement backfire in the worst way possible. And do you know what that means? It means that your perfectly normal neighbors and friends who admit they are, to an extent, racist in an effort to become an "ally in training" will instead get sick of your putting them down and "in their place". Just go on ahead and continue acting like an ass. People will only put with your shit for so long, then they will decide you are not worth the effort.

Literally you just argued that people who YOU ADMIT are somewhat racist will continue to be racist because someone was mean to them.

White are people are constantly told "this is hard work" becoming an anti-racist. The "hard work" should mean that its hard to look at your long-held assumptions, behaviors and thoughts (both conscious and unconscious) and admit they are the result of growing up White in a racist society. That IS hard for many White people to do but we are out there and willing to do THAT kind of hard work. But when the "hard work" means we have to accept that our feelings will automatically and forever be ignored - no matter what they are or why we have them - just because we are White? Yeah, that's just not normal human behavior. I'm not going to do that, and I will also make sure my children do not do that. Once you stop treating me a like a dog and getting mad because I won't accept it - then we can talk about how I can be an "ally in training"

What are the thoughts and feelings you're not allowed to express and to whom?

Np. Well, for example, anything the thoughtful PP puts in an answer to you will be dismissed, attacked, or used to promote your characterization of the PP as a racist. No one is permitted to have thoughts, feelings, or to formulate ideas that don't align with anti-racist dogma, so the only option is be silent and internalize that one's own thoughts, feelings, impressions, or ideas don't matter. No one wants to hear then.

DP but this playing the victim stuff is exactly what I think (but could be wrong) that others were saying earlier on this thread

This is not about playing the victim. It’s about asking humans to completely ignore some important aspects of being human (listening to others and being listened to).If you are being asked to be part of a discussion but are told that your thoughts and feelings and opinions won’t count, then it’s not really a discussion is it?

How hyper-dramatic. "One's own thoughts, feelings, impressions, or ideas don't matter." Maybe about one particular area. Maybe, indeed, your thoughts or feelings in certain areas or at certain times don't actually matter, or expressing them in certain ways is indeed inappropriate.

This is how life is for someone who isn't a narcissist. Every parent in here has had to swallow their feelings or pride at some point or another. Everyone who has had to shut their mouth around a friend before. Maybe you had to sincerely apologize to a family member in order to repair a relationship.

I just find it odd when people who are otherwise understanding and able to control themselves suddenly find themselves in extremes of "I MUST EXPRESS MYSELF FULLY AND COMPLETELY WITH NO CONSEQUENCES," when the subject is anti-racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you’re not going to like this point, but it’s the epitome of privilege to think that you should be able to set the terms for discussions of racism. This is an uncomfortable topic of conversation and it sounds like the principal did a solid amount of frontloading prior to the session.

You are welcome to your views on how racism should be discussed but if you are trying tell me that "I" and other white people MUST discuss racism without regard to how we view the conversation, then it's the epitome of foolishness to think we are ever going to engage in an honest conversation with you about anything. Doyin Richards was obnoxious, referring to hypothetical white kids as "Little Ainsley" and "Little Connor" . His disdain for White people was evident. If my pointing that out makes you think I am privileged, then please explain to everyone and me why we should allow a man like that to talk to our children like he is some kind of respected authority figure they should listen to. He is not. Shame on Janney for bringing him into this important conversation. Oh, and of course, I don't actually expect you to explain anything since, you know, I'm privileged and therefore my opinions and feelings are not worthy of your consideration. Yeah, good luck with that attitude.

TL;DR: if you don't talk about racism in a way that feels friendly and warm enough, I retain the right to remain racist, out of spite.

LOL. You wish. Just because you are a moron doesn't make me a racist. Its people like you that will make this anti-racism movement backfire in the worst way possible. And do you know what that means? It means that your perfectly normal neighbors and friends who admit they are, to an extent, racist in an effort to become an "ally in training" will instead get sick of your putting them down and "in their place". Just go on ahead and continue acting like an ass. People will only put with your shit for so long, then they will decide you are not worth the effort.

Literally you just argued that people who YOU ADMIT are somewhat racist will continue to be racist because someone was mean to them.

White are people are constantly told "this is hard work" becoming an anti-racist. The "hard work" should mean that its hard to look at your long-held assumptions, behaviors and thoughts (both conscious and unconscious) and admit they are the result of growing up White in a racist society. That IS hard for many White people to do but we are out there and willing to do THAT kind of hard work. But when the "hard work" means we have to accept that our feelings will automatically and forever be ignored - no matter what they are or why we have them - just because we are White? Yeah, that's just not normal human behavior. I'm not going to do that, and I will also make sure my children do not do that. Once you stop treating me a like a dog and getting mad because I won't accept it - then we can talk about how I can be an "ally in training"

What are the thoughts and feelings you're not allowed to express and to whom?

Np. Well, for example, anything the thoughtful PP puts in an answer to you will be dismissed, attacked, or used to promote your characterization of the PP as a racist. No one is permitted to have thoughts, feelings, or to formulate ideas that don't align with anti-racist dogma, so the only option is be silent and internalize that one's own thoughts, feelings, impressions, or ideas don't matter. No one wants to hear then.

DP but this playing the victim stuff is exactly what I think (but could be wrong) that others were saying earlier on this thread

This is not about playing the victim. It’s about asking humans to completely ignore some important aspects of being human (listening to others and being listened to).If you are being asked to be part of a discussion but are told that your thoughts and feelings and opinions won’t count, then it’s not really a discussion is it?

How hyper-dramatic. "One's own thoughts, feelings, impressions, or ideas don't matter." Maybe about one particular area. Maybe, indeed, your thoughts or feelings in certain areas or at certain times don't actually matter, or expressing them in certain ways is indeed inappropriate.

This is how life is for someone who isn't a narcissist. Every parent in here has had to swallow their feelings or pride at some point or another. Everyone who has had to shut their mouth around a friend before. Maybe you had to sincerely apologize to a family member in order to repair a relationship.

I just find it odd when people who are otherwise understanding and able to control themselves suddenly find themselves in extremes of "I MUST EXPRESS MYSELF FULLY AND COMPLETELY WITH NO CONSEQUENCES," when the subject is anti-racism.

Right. So you are saying that white people can't say anything critical about anything characterized as "anti-racist." We get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think anti-racism is incompatible with qualms about a particular program’s imagery.

I agree

I agree. But, as displayed in this thread, if you DO have qualms with teaching 3-year-olds about "curb stomping" when that "curb stomping" is discussed in an anti-racism lecture, then you are, indeed, just being racist.

what a strawman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know you’re not going to like this point, but it’s the epitome of privilege to think that you should be able to set the terms for discussions of racism. This is an uncomfortable topic of conversation and it sounds like the principal did a solid amount of frontloading prior to the session.

You are welcome to your views on how racism should be discussed but if you are trying tell me that "I" and other white people MUST discuss racism without regard to how we view the conversation, then it's the epitome of foolishness to think we are ever going to engage in an honest conversation with you about anything. Doyin Richards was obnoxious, referring to hypothetical white kids as "Little Ainsley" and "Little Connor" . His disdain for White people was evident. If my pointing that out makes you think I am privileged, then please explain to everyone and me why we should allow a man like that to talk to our children like he is some kind of respected authority figure they should listen to. He is not. Shame on Janney for bringing him into this important conversation. Oh, and of course, I don't actually expect you to explain anything since, you know, I'm privileged and therefore my opinions and feelings are not worthy of your consideration. Yeah, good luck with that attitude.

TL;DR: if you don't talk about racism in a way that feels friendly and warm enough, I retain the right to remain racist, out of spite.

LOL. You wish. Just because you are a moron doesn't make me a racist. Its people like you that will make this anti-racism movement backfire in the worst way possible. And do you know what that means? It means that your perfectly normal neighbors and friends who admit they are, to an extent, racist in an effort to become an "ally in training" will instead get sick of your putting them down and "in their place". Just go on ahead and continue acting like an ass. People will only put with your shit for so long, then they will decide you are not worth the effort.

Literally you just argued that people who YOU ADMIT are somewhat racist will continue to be racist because someone was mean to them.

White are people are constantly told "this is hard work" becoming an anti-racist. The "hard work" should mean that its hard to look at your long-held assumptions, behaviors and thoughts (both conscious and unconscious) and admit they are the result of growing up White in a racist society. That IS hard for many White people to do but we are out there and willing to do THAT kind of hard work. But when the "hard work" means we have to accept that our feelings will automatically and forever be ignored - no matter what they are or why we have them - just because we are White? Yeah, that's just not normal human behavior. I'm not going to do that, and I will also make sure my children do not do that. Once you stop treating me a like a dog and getting mad because I won't accept it - then we can talk about how I can be an "ally in training"

What are the thoughts and feelings you're not allowed to express and to whom?

Np. Well, for example, anything the thoughtful PP puts in an answer to you will be dismissed, attacked, or used to promote your characterization of the PP as a racist. No one is permitted to have thoughts, feelings, or to formulate ideas that don't align with anti-racist dogma, so the only option is be silent and internalize that one's own thoughts, feelings, impressions, or ideas don't matter. No one wants to hear then.

DP but this playing the victim stuff is exactly what I think (but could be wrong) that others were saying earlier on this thread

This is not about playing the victim. It’s about asking humans to completely ignore some important aspects of being human (listening to others and being listened to).If you are being asked to be part of a discussion but are told that your thoughts and feelings and opinions won’t count, then it’s not really a discussion is it?

How hyper-dramatic. "One's own thoughts, feelings, impressions, or ideas don't matter." Maybe about one particular area. Maybe, indeed, your thoughts or feelings in certain areas or at certain times don't actually matter, or expressing them in certain ways is indeed inappropriate.

This is how life is for someone who isn't a narcissist. Every parent in here has had to swallow their feelings or pride at some point or another. Everyone who has had to shut their mouth around a friend before. Maybe you had to sincerely apologize to a family member in order to repair a relationship.

I just find it odd when people who are otherwise understanding and able to control themselves suddenly find themselves in extremes of "I MUST EXPRESS MYSELF FULLY AND COMPLETELY WITH NO CONSEQUENCES," when the subject is anti-racism.

Right. So you are saying that white people can't say anything critical about anything characterized as "anti-racist." We get it.

I guess if you want to ignore all of the nuances of everything I said, sure, that's your takeaway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm... So are we saying that Doyin Richards' antiracism fist club belongs to the 'white fragility' DiAngelo school of thought? As opposed to Kendi's or some other? And if not, why are there 20 posts about what some white woman thinks about racims??

I think the Diangelo school of thought is on display in this thread. That's why she got brought up.

I'm not sure if you are suggesting that you haven't heard of Diangelo ("some white woman"). She's a very popular anti-racism lecturer, and every white woman and their mother has been told to read White Fragility. She's widely discussed alongside Kendi, with others in the press comparing their approaches.