Are We Crazy for Questioning a $250k US Degree and looking abroad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's get one thing straight, ok? All the talk about Australia, Canada and even to some extent the UK having more international students than the USA given their much smaller sizes? It's not because they're perceived as "better" university systems than the USA -- it's because their admissions standards are lower because in country competition is lower. Foreign students are also a much more significant source of revenue than they are in the USA. Unlike the USA, these countries charged foreign students much more than they charge locals.
These countries NEED foreign students.

I suppose? I guess why apply to the University of Sydney which ranks #18 on the QS World Rankings when you can go to Illinois which ranks #69 or North Texas which is #1001. Both are in the top 10 schools hosting the most international students.

Half the students at University of Sydney are foreign, and half of those are from China. This isn’t surprising since the two countries are in the same time zone. Still, more Chinese students choose to study in the USA even though we are half a world away. Why? Because we have the superior reputation.

Higher education is a huge money maker for Australia. It’s their fourth biggest export. They market their universities aggressively in Asian countries because they want—need—the tuition money. They’re aren’t enough Australian students to fill their classrooms. THAT’S why their international enrollment is so high compared to the USA.

GO USA !!! GO USA !!! GO USA !!!

We are the envy of the world. The world loves us. Foreign students are dying to come here. Why should OP question a $250k degree? Probably because OP is an idiot!!!

GO USA !!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

Exactly. They can’t get into the top USA schools so they go abroad and tell themselves they’re special.

You are insufferable. Despite the clear evidence in this thread and elsewhere that this is BS, you wont give up your BS stories. What a sad housewife you are….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

My son was a good but not spectacular student in wildly uneven honors high school.

He now has two degrees from two EU universities that outrank ETH in his field. His classmates were supposed to come in with a gymnasium education or the equivalent.

My son never has any trouble with competing with the EU-educated students, and he never felt that they had an advantage because they came in with a better education.

Gymnasium students may be a lot better prepared than average U.S. high school students, but gymnasium schools are more directly comparable to Thomas Jefferson and Stuyvesant. Good U.S. test school students are roughly as well-educated test school students elsewhere in the world.

Your son has done exceptionally well despite his circumstances. I think he is still a data point of 1. If the education system is better in Europe then MORE people achieve great things. That's the equation.

I'm afraid that the US educational system (schools) is considered one of the worst in the world, with the lowest levels of literacy and math skills. It's not an insult to note this, just a fact.

I'm from the UK but I had a mostly US high school education and all my children were raised in the US. What it gives you is confidence. The US is not a nation of people side stepping to avoid their own opportunities, or constantly apologizing "to be polite", its a nation of people forging forward, to make the best of themselves in the belief they can do so. And there's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that many of them really aren't up to the task. Confidence is 80% of the battle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

My kids didn’t apply to any US schools. So I don’t think your “they are just rejects from good US universities” holds up. Can you not conceive of the fact that some kids genuinely prefer the university experience abroad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, your high school system is a disaster. That is not my opinion; it is an objective, globally recognized fact. To place an average American high schooler in a room with a student from a Swiss Gymnasium is not a comparison; it is a cruelty.

My son was a good but not spectacular student in wildly uneven honors high school.

He now has two degrees from two EU universities that outrank ETH in his field. His classmates were supposed to come in with a gymnasium education or the equivalent.

My son never has any trouble with competing with the EU-educated students, and he never felt that they had an advantage because they came in with a better education.

Gymnasium students may be a lot better prepared than average U.S. high school students, but gymnasium schools are more directly comparable to Thomas Jefferson and Stuyvesant. Good U.S. test school students are roughly as well-educated test school students elsewhere in the world.

Your son has done exceptionally well despite his circumstances. I think he is still a data point of 1. If the education system is better in Europe then MORE people achieve great things. That's the equation.

I'm afraid that the US educational system (schools) is considered one of the worst in the world, with the lowest levels of literacy and math skills. It's not an insult to note this, just a fact.

I'm from the UK but I had a mostly US high school education and all my children were raised in the US. What it gives you is confidence. The US is not a nation of people side stepping to avoid their own opportunities, or constantly apologizing "to be polite", its a nation of people forging forward, to make the best of themselves in the belief they can do so. And there's nothing wrong with that other than the fact that many of them really aren't up to the task. Confidence is 80% of the battle.

This is just blatantly untrue. The UK students perform better than US students on international tests, but we rank ahead of Germany, France, Norway, Netherlands, Austria and other European countries.

We rank 18th out of 74 countries. We should be higher, but by no means are we one of the worst or even considered one of the worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

+1. THIS. Same in DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

My kids didn’t apply to any US schools. So I don’t think your “they are just rejects from good US universities” holds up. Can you not conceive of the fact that some kids genuinely prefer the university experience abroad?

She isn’t addressing your kids’ situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s hope the USA never becomes THIS dependent on international students.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-27/australias-international-student-industry-in-charts/104244340

I suppose. But Aussies can get a 7 year medical degree for a TOTAL tuition fee of $85,000 at the University of Sydney which is ranked 25th in the world on the QS Global Ranking. Some might prefer that.

That’s US$56,000.

Sure, but try getting hired back in the U.S. in a good physician’s position

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s hope the USA never becomes THIS dependent on international students.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-27/australias-international-student-industry-in-charts/104244340

I suppose. But Aussies can get a 7 year medical degree for a TOTAL tuition fee of $85,000 at the University of Sydney which is ranked 25th in the world on the QS Global Ranking. Some might prefer that.

That’s US$56,000.

Sure, but try getting hired back in the U.S. in a good physician’s position

You missed the point. That is not the price for American students wanting to get a cheap medical degree and then return to the US. That is the price for Aussie students who are massively cross subsidised by the large number of international students. I was just responding to the previous poster exclaiming over the large number of international students and pointing out there is a cost benefit for Australian students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

My kids didn’t apply to any US schools. So I don’t think your “they are just rejects from good US universities” holds up. Can you not conceive of the fact that some kids genuinely prefer the university experience abroad?

She isn’t addressing your kids’ situation.

Sure. She is only addressing HER Manhattan Private’s situation…..everyone has their own anecdotal evidence here. And instead of pretending theirs is the ONLY truth and the rule, maybe keep an open mind to the fact that the ridiculous generalizations being made here are simply that….ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s hope the USA never becomes THIS dependent on international students.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-27/australias-international-student-industry-in-charts/104244340

I suppose. But Aussies can get a 7 year medical degree for a TOTAL tuition fee of $85,000 at the University of Sydney which is ranked 25th in the world on the QS Global Ranking. Some might prefer that.

The key word you just said is "Aussies." There aren't a lot of them, even in Australia. And a big reason why some of their schools are so good is because they're funded largely by international students. Literally half of Sydney's budget comes from international student tuition. Non-Aussies aren't paying 85k for seven years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's get one thing straight, ok? All the talk about Australia, Canada and even to some extent the UK having more international students than the USA given their much smaller sizes? It's not because they're perceived as "better" university systems than the USA -- it's because their admissions standards are lower because in country competition is lower. Foreign students are also a much more significant source of revenue than they are in the USA. Unlike the USA, these countries charged foreign students much more than they charge locals.
These countries NEED foreign students.

I suppose? I guess why apply to the University of Sydney which ranks #18 on the QS World Rankings when you can go to Illinois which ranks #69 or North Texas which is #1001. Both are in the top 10 schools hosting the most international students.

Half the students at University of Sydney are foreign, and half of those are from China. This isn’t surprising since the two countries are in the same time zone. Still, more Chinese students choose to study in the USA even though we are half a world away. Why? Because we have the superior reputation.

Higher education is a huge money maker for Australia. It’s their fourth biggest export. They market their universities aggressively in Asian countries because they want—need—the tuition money. They’re aren’t enough Australian students to fill their classrooms. THAT’S why their international enrollment is so high compared to the USA.

GO USA !!! GO USA !!! GO USA !!!

We are the envy of the world. The world loves us. Foreign students are dying to come here. Why should OP question a $250k degree? Probably because OP is an idiot!!!

GO USA !!!

You're being juvenile. I'm merely explaining why the percentage of foreign students in Australia is so much higher than the USA. And the answer is easy: it's in the same time zones as China and it is dependent on and aggressively markets to international (primarily Asian) students for funding. It's not because its university system is considered "better" than the USA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

My kids didn’t apply to any US schools. So I don’t think your “they are just rejects from good US universities” holds up. Can you not conceive of the fact that some kids genuinely prefer the university experience abroad?

If your kids didn't apply to any US schools, it's either because their parents aren't American or they knew they wouldn't get into top USA school -- or both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand this is DMV area site but if anyone’s interested, here’s my perspective coming from a top Manhattan private…

For most families here, tuition cost is never the incentive behind choosing an overseas college. Families who seriously consider schools like St Andrew’s or McGill are often Ivies or bust type; and don’t want to tell their friends and especially work colleagues who just placed their DCs at Ivies+ WASP that their own kid is going to U of Colorado. So they send their kids to an international university and add the worldly/adventurous factor to the narrative. Often times these DCs of Ivies or bust parent are happy to go far away, so it’s a win win for everyone in a make lemonade out of lemons situation.

My kids didn’t apply to any US schools. So I don’t think your “they are just rejects from good US universities” holds up. Can you not conceive of the fact that some kids genuinely prefer the university experience abroad?

If your kids didn't apply to any US schools, it's either because their parents aren't American or they knew they wouldn't get into top USA school -- or both.

You dont give up do you. We are both Americans and as I have stated before they all had excellent credentials. You live in a little bubble and you can believe what you want. But dont come in here pretending you know everything and that yo are the owner of the truth.

You are just a pathetic little mom with too much time your hand trying to bash anybody else’s decisions that dont conform with your. Your attitude is absolutely ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey everyone,
Following up on the conversations I see around here and other places about why more US students are looking at universities overseas. I've been going down the rabbit hole on this with my husband and my kids. My son is a Junior and daughter a Freshman. Thye have both brought up the possibility of maybe going abroad for college. My husband went to grad school in the UK and Italy so he is all for it. I’m not yet sold on it.

While it's tempting to focus on the positives, I think it's smarter to start with the real-world downsides. The biggest one for me is the career question. Let's be honest, if you go to Oxford, Cambridge, or LSE, your degree will open doors anywhere. But what if you go to a really solid, but less famous, university in the UK, Netherlands, Italy or Canada? How do grads from those schools do when they try to find a job back in the States? I worry that a hiring manager in, say, Chicago might just toss a resume because they don't recognize the school's name.

You're also thousands of miles away from US-based career fairs and the alumni network that helps people land their first job. A college consultant who specializes in EU/Canadian and UK schools actually told us that outside of Oxbridge and LSE/Imperial, we should focus only on the top 12 schools in the UK or the top 3 in each of the other EU countries. Her reasoning was that all US grad schools and the vast majority of top US companies know these specific schools, even if the general public doesn't. She said the real issue is with local or regional employers who won't recognize the name. But her point was, if your goal is to work for a local company back home, then why go abroad in the first place?

Beyond that, you're obviously giving up the traditional "American college experience." The whole campus life, dorm culture, college sports, and clubs are just a different world over there. And we can't ignore the personal side. It's a huge move. You have to deal with visa paperwork, international banking, and the very real possibility of getting homesick and not having your support system a quick flight away. It’s a serious trade-off that goes way beyond academics. This mom is a little concerned.

Now with the scary stuff out of the way, the pros are still massive. The most obvious is the cost, which is just staggering. We're talking about the potential to get a degree for a price that's less than a single year at some private US colleges. The math is pretty compelling: with many EU public universities having tuition at a fraction of US schools, the savings are life-changing. Specially if you are able to invest that savings on behalf of your kids for when they graduate. But beyond the practical stuff, I realize there's the huge benefit of actually living in a different culture for three or four years. I have to imagine that navigating a new country, becoming more independent, and seeing the world from a completely different perspective forces you to grow as an individual in a way that staying in the US just can't replicate. For kids with an interest in global business, History, Languages or international relations, this experience seems like a no-brainer. You'd be living and breathing cross-cultural communication and could potentially pick up another language, skills that can really set you apart.

But the last piece of the puzzle I was curious about was the return plan. It seems like coming back to the US for a graduate degree is a well-worn path. US Master's programs and even J.D. programs are very used to seeing applicants with international degrees. I wonder how many kids simply stay in Canada/EU/UK after graduation. Would love to hear from parents here who have had this experience before with their kids.

Sorry for the long post.

No you are not crazy. Ignore the usual suspects here that are in constant need to believe they are right about everything. You can read here and in many other threads many examples of families that did this. Don’t waste your day responding to some of the most idiotic posters DCUM has to offer…