Hating donut hole life: athletic recruiting version

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Really hard to feel sorry for people when the athletic hook doesn’t work for them.

It’s not hard if you’re not an ahole because you know how much work the kid put into it.

Our kids who study hard, act in plays, win speech & debate competitions, tutor peers, and write for the paper also are kids who put a lot a lot of work in. they just don't feel as entitled to gain admission with lower academic standards!

why should students whose EC is sports gain admission with lower academic standards to play sports that don't bring any benefit to the school's other students? who watches cross-country, volleyball, squash, etc.?

at least diversity helps everyone by not having people in bubbles.

CMU theatre kids don’t need test scores or grades anywhere approaching the non-theatre students. This is true of other schools with strong arts programs.

Perhaps. But the chances of getting into the theater program at CMU are substantially less than the regular admissions percentages.

In addition, drama is an academic major at CMU, with a separate audition component to the admissions process. Not really a good comparison with athletics.

Actually a perfect comparison. The athletic recruiting process fundamentally functions the same as the audition. Sports aren’t a major but so what, they are institutional priorities.

Soft course it’s different.

Athletics are an EC. People don’t study football. Theatre is an academic program. People major in theatre. There are no pre-reads for theatre, no preferred admissions. No recruiting.

Why do parents of athletes try so hard to justify the separate admissions process? Isn’t that what you want?

Ummmmm at most colleges you do submit your theater work as part of the admissions process. Not required but done mostly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really hard to feel sorry for people when the athletic hook doesn’t work for them.

It’s not hard if you’re not an ahole because you know how much work the kid put into it.

Our kids who study hard, act in plays, win speech & debate competitions, tutor peers, and write for the paper also are kids who put a lot a lot of work in. they just don't feel as entitled to gain admission with lower academic standards!

why should students whose EC is sports gain admission with lower academic standards to play sports that don't bring any benefit to the school's other students? who watches cross-country, volleyball, squash, etc.?

at least diversity helps everyone by not having people in bubbles.

CMU theatre kids don’t need test scores or grades anywhere approaching the non-theatre students. This is true of other schools with strong arts programs.

Perhaps. But the chances of getting into the theater program at CMU are substantially less than the regular admissions percentages.

In addition, drama is an academic major at CMU, with a separate audition component to the admissions process. Not really a good comparison with athletics.

Actually a perfect comparison. The athletic recruiting process fundamentally functions the same as the audition. Sports aren’t a major but so what, they are institutional priorities.

Soft course it’s different.

Athletics are an EC. People don’t study football. Theatre is an academic program. People major in theatre. There are no pre-reads for theatre, no preferred admissions. No recruiting.

Why do parents of athletes try so hard to justify the separate admissions process? Isn’t that what you want?

Ummmmm at most colleges you do submit your theater work as part of the admissions process. Not required but done mostly.

No pre-reads. No separate admit process. What you are referring to is an arts supplement, which may indeed help with admissions, but think “pinky” — not “fist.” Unless you are talking Juilliard or some specialty school…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find atlethic Scholorships a complete Scam for most.

I was at a college with 100 percent tuition covered by Financial Aid. I was approached to be on Lacross team with a "scholorship"

I never played Lacross. I thought it was a scam. I go meet with coach anyhow. He goes we were scouting recent transfer students. Says here you rant track in HS, Long Distance and 100 yard dash and look in shape. I go yea I am still in shape, he asked me height and weight I go six foot two inche 190 pound. He goes perfects, can you still run? I go well I do do track anymore but in intermural basketball I play I can run the full game no problem at all.

Dude whips out a scholorship form for me to sign. I go what, he goes you will be the defense in practice and maybe play garabage time. I need someone big and quick in practice to block the starters. I can teach you some lacross but you wont really need that. I get form I go home to show Mom.

It says in fine print I forfeit all my financial aid to school directly to recoup atlethic Scholorship. So in other words I am not getting anything, I did not pay tuition, if said if injured school not liable for medical payments from injury and I cant sue them if injured. Then it added on during season I cant hold a part time job. I had a 20 hour a week part time job I had to quit.

My Mom read it and laughed out loud. So for 20-30 hours a week people are going to hit you with sticks in practive for free and you have to quit your job for that privledge and if hurt you are on your own.

For most people it is a scam.

This didn’t happen but nice fiction.

Agree. No coach would think you could pick up LAX enough to play because you ran track. Kind of a lot of typos ---- maybe the LAX would have helped your resume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh I hate not being rich right now. DC has athletic recruiting offers to some top SLAC schools, but they don't do athletic or merit scholarships. I ran the NPCs and we get zero financial aid at all of them, but they're just too expensive for us to pay full price.

Now DC has to either 1) go to lower ranked schools offering athletic/merit scholarships or 2) forego athletic recruitment and just apply EA to state schools or shot gun in regular decision in hopes of merit.

Tonight I have to tell DC that they can't go to either of the SLAC's that they really want and have offers to. And we're not prepared with essays because we spent oodles of time on recruiting on top of an intensive year round sports schedule.

I hope this serves as a cautionary tale for donut hole parents of younger athletic recruits. Don't waste your time on recruiting unless you can either pay full price, your kid is good enough to get a hefty scholarship at one of the few good schools that offers athletic scholarships *and wants to go to these larger schools*, or you qualify for significant FA.

OP -- it was on you to have a conversation in Ninth grade with the kid --- look -- you need to focus on state schools for your sport or D1s that give money. Otherwise we cannot do it. There was no point going through the recruiting process you went through. Rather than not have them play a sport have a real conversation.

We are not in your situation. We can pay. DD is at a high academic D3. But that is what she wanted. She knew she wanted Ivy or that (plus a few more). She did not chase or engage with the schools she was not interested in. Even good D1s. That is what you should have done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Playing a sport for 4 yrs at a D3 college for no extra money seems pointless.

What was all those extra $$$ for club sports and hours practicing for? All those Injuries and wasted hours.

I mean, childhood counts for more than just preparing for college. If the kid enjoys the sport and the family has the resources for them to participate, then that’s wonderful.

I do agree that going to a college that isn’t the right fit or is too expensive just so you can play your sport is crazy. College actually IS supposed to prepare you for the rest of your life.

Parents need to let their kids know that the world gets so much bigger once you leave your little bubble of home/school/practice, and there are so many other things to do with your life besides stare at the bottom of the pool or catch a ball with a stick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really hard to feel sorry for people when the athletic hook doesn’t work for them.

It’s not hard if you’re not an ahole because you know how much work the kid put into it.

Our kids who study hard, act in plays, win speech & debate competitions, tutor peers, and write for the paper also are kids who put a lot a lot of work in. they just don't feel as entitled to gain admission with lower academic standards!

why should students whose EC is sports gain admission with lower academic standards to play sports that don't bring any benefit to the school's other students? who watches cross-country, volleyball, squash, etc.?

at least diversity helps everyone by not having people in bubbles.

CMU theatre kids don’t need test scores or grades anywhere approaching the non-theatre students. This is true of other schools with strong arts programs.

Perhaps. But the chances of getting into the theater program at CMU are substantially less than the regular admissions percentages.

In addition, drama is an academic major at CMU, with a separate audition component to the admissions process. Not really a good comparison with athletics.

Actually a perfect comparison. The athletic recruiting process fundamentally functions the same as the audition. Sports aren’t a major but so what, they are institutional priorities.

Soft course it’s different.

Athletics are an EC. People don’t study football. Theatre is an academic program. People major in theatre. There are no pre-reads for theatre, no preferred admissions. No recruiting.

Why do parents of athletes try so hard to justify the separate admissions process? Isn’t that what you want?

Ummmmm at most colleges you do submit your theater work as part of the admissions process. Not required but done mostly.

Yes, you do. When applying as a theatre major. You don’t when auditioning for a play on campus that is not part of that major - IOW, an EC. Students doing theatre as an EC in college do not get a pre-read and a separate admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really hard to feel sorry for people when the athletic hook doesn’t work for them.

It’s not hard if you’re not an ahole because you know how much work the kid put into it.

Our kids who study hard, act in plays, win speech & debate competitions, tutor peers, and write for the paper also are kids who put a lot a lot of work in. they just don't feel as entitled to gain admission with lower academic standards!

why should students whose EC is sports gain admission with lower academic standards to play sports that don't bring any benefit to the school's other students? who watches cross-country, volleyball, squash, etc.?

at least diversity helps everyone by not having people in bubbles.

Because sports are institutional priorities at many schools, particularly old private schools. And, these schools have every right to their priorities. Nobody complains about athletes at Towson because people don't care about athletes and athletics except when they consume seats at a school they covet. Seems like simple envy and jealousy to me.

It’s a hook, an unearned advantage that gets a student a special admissions process they otherwise wouldn’t have gotten.

It’s part of American athlete worship culture.

Athletics are an institutional priority for these schools and have been for 150 years. Why can't you get that through your head?

That’s exactly what I said. It’s a hook. Something the institution values but is not earned by the student, like legacy or big donor family or faculty child.

That is the dumbest take I've ever heard. Do you have any idea how hard athletes work to earn their skill?

No doubt they work hard doing something they love and they develop skills. But that’s not why they get a thumb on the scale. That thumb is there not because your kid worked hard, it’s there because schools prioritize sports. That’s the unearned part. Your kid could work hard being a volunteer EMT throughout high school but that hard work isn’t considered a priority so no thumb. No other EC is as valuable as being a recruited athlete and it isn’t because the athletes are so much more fabulous than the non-athletes.

Utterly dumb to argue sports recruits didn't "earn" their priority in admission. They earn it by working hard, and only 2% of high school athletes play D1 in college. Fundamentally different from being a legacy or donor child or faculty child, where you are either born into those or not.

Moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really hard to feel sorry for people when the athletic hook doesn’t work for them.

It’s not hard if you’re not an ahole because you know how much work the kid put into it.

Our kids who study hard, act in plays, win speech & debate competitions, tutor peers, and write for the paper also are kids who put a lot a lot of work in. they just don't feel as entitled to gain admission with lower academic standards!

why should students whose EC is sports gain admission with lower academic standards to play sports that don't bring any benefit to the school's other students? who watches cross-country, volleyball, squash, etc.?

at least diversity helps everyone by not having people in bubbles.

CMU theatre kids don’t need test scores or grades anywhere approaching the non-theatre students. This is true of other schools with strong arts programs.

Perhaps. But the chances of getting into the theater program at CMU are substantially less than the regular admissions percentages.

In addition, drama is an academic major at CMU, with a separate audition component to the admissions process. Not really a good comparison with athletics.

Actually a perfect comparison. The athletic recruiting process fundamentally functions the same as the audition. Sports aren’t a major but so what, they are institutional priorities.

Soft course it’s different.

Athletics are an EC. People don’t study football. Theatre is an academic program. People major in theatre. There are no pre-reads for theatre, no preferred admissions. No recruiting.

Why do parents of athletes try so hard to justify the separate admissions process? Isn’t that what you want?

Parents don't need to justify it. They have no control over it. Go whine to your alma mater about it, and see how far it gets you.

[Anonymous]

So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

Depends on the SLAC and the sport. I don’t think Williams and Amherst is in the cards for just decent. For track and XC, the Williams recruited athletes had D1 options if they wanted them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I saved $10K/yr by not doing UMC sports, so I can afford tuition

I saved more than that each year from the scholarship. It comes down to the athlete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

Depends on the SLAC and the sport. I don’t think Williams and Amherst is in the cards for just decent. For track and XC, the Williams recruited athletes had D1 options if they wanted them.

true for about 2 kids per year at each school - those are the kids with D1 - Patriot League or Ivy - options

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

Depends on the SLAC and the sport. I don’t think Williams and Amherst is in the cards for just decent. For track and XC, the Williams recruited athletes had D1 options if they wanted them.

true for about 2 kids per year at each school - those are the kids with D1 - Patriot League or Ivy - options

Every one of them could run D1 somewhere if they were more interested in D1 than an academic experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

Depends on the SLAC and the sport. I don’t think Williams and Amherst is in the cards for just decent. For track and XC, the Williams recruited athletes had D1 options if they wanted them.

How about for football or lacrosse? And is their entire track team that deep, or is it just the stars?

[Anonymous]

My DD was in the same position. We couldn’t afford what the NESCAC schools said we could, and she wasn’t P5 material. In the end, she had to choose between being a non-athlete at a selective state flagship or playing her sport at lower academic schools. She is currently at the state flagship studying a major that will lead to a lucrative job. I truly believe the leadership roles and honors she acquired through her sport are part of what got her accepted. It wasn’t the path she was expecting, but I think it is working out for the best.