Should I tell her I’m agnostic?

[Anonymous]

Who cares what you believe or don’t believe, why the heck is your MIL in a position to criticize you? You commented on the tone, so presumably this is in your presence. You need to shut that down, irrespective of anyone’s religious beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who cares what you believe or don’t believe, why the heck is your MIL in a position to criticize you? You commented on the tone, so presumably this is in your presence. You need to shut that down, irrespective of anyone’s religious beliefs.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

No — certain types of religion have a belief in a supreme being and supernatural events. But that’s not true across the board — certainly not true of most eastern religions. And even then — for those religions that do believe in a supreme being or supernatural beliefs — the belief in a supreme being or supernatural occurrences is typically part of a larger worldview that goes to the very heart of how the world is organized It is not just an abstract belief in God.

Likewise, Atheists have many ideas about how the world is organized and how it all fits together. It’s the same thing as a “religion” in any true understanding of that term.

And then there are the many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” — who are really saying “yes I do believe in something else out there” — which again functions as its own religion. Many of these people actually strongly believe in supernatural events even if they don’t believe in a supreme God like Christians do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

No — certain types of religion have a belief in a supreme being and supernatural events. But that’s not true across the board — certainly not true of most eastern religions. And even then — for those religions that do believe in a supreme being or supernatural beliefs — the belief in a supreme being or supernatural occurrences is typically part of a larger worldview that goes to the very heart of how the world is organized It is not just an abstract belief in God.

Likewise, Atheists have many ideas about how the world is organized and how it all fits together. It’s the same thing as a “religion” in any true understanding of that term.

And then there are the many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” — who are really saying “yes I do believe in something else out there” — which again functions as its own religion. Many of these people actually strongly believe in supernatural events even if they don’t believe in a supreme God like Christians do.

some religions may not believe in the supernatural - I don't know of any. Having ideas of how the world is organized is not the same as a religion. this seems like an opinion of yours - not a fact. Same with people who are spiritual but not religious, You seem to be stating your opinions as facts. That's my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

No — certain types of religion have a belief in a supreme being and supernatural events. But that’s not true across the board — certainly not true of most eastern religions. And even then — for those religions that do believe in a supreme being or supernatural beliefs — the belief in a supreme being or supernatural occurrences is typically part of a larger worldview that goes to the very heart of how the world is organized It is not just an abstract belief in God.

Likewise, Atheists have many ideas about how the world is organized and how it all fits together. It’s the same thing as a “religion” in any true understanding of that term.

And then there are the many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” — who are really saying “yes I do believe in something else out there” — which again functions as its own religion. Many of these people actually strongly believe in supernatural events even if they don’t believe in a supreme God like Christians do.

some religions may not believe in the supernatural - I don't know of any. Having ideas of how the world is organized is not the same as a religion. this seems like an opinion of yours - not a fact. Same with people who are spiritual but not religious, You seem to be stating your opinions as facts. That's my opinion.

Atheists’ ideas on how the world is fit together is informed by science and the scientific method.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

No — certain types of religion have a belief in a supreme being and supernatural events. But that’s not true across the board — certainly not true of most eastern religions. And even then — for those religions that do believe in a supreme being or supernatural beliefs — the belief in a supreme being or supernatural occurrences is typically part of a larger worldview that goes to the very heart of how the world is organized It is not just an abstract belief in God.

Likewise, Atheists have many ideas about how the world is organized and how it all fits together. It’s the same thing as a “religion” in any true understanding of that term.

And then there are the many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” — who are really saying “yes I do believe in something else out there” — which again functions as its own religion. Many of these people actually strongly believe in supernatural events even if they don’t believe in a supreme God like Christians do.

some religions may not believe in the supernatural - I don't know of any. Having ideas of how the world is organized is not the same as a religion. this seems like an opinion of yours - not a fact. Same with people who are spiritual but not religious, You seem to be stating your opinions as facts. That's my opinion.

Atheists’ ideas on how the world is fit together is informed by science and the scientific method.

That is a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

No — certain types of religion have a belief in a supreme being and supernatural events. But that’s not true across the board — certainly not true of most eastern religions. And even then — for those religions that do believe in a supreme being or supernatural beliefs — the belief in a supreme being or supernatural occurrences is typically part of a larger worldview that goes to the very heart of how the world is organized It is not just an abstract belief in God.

Likewise, Atheists have many ideas about how the world is organized and how it all fits together. It’s the same thing as a “religion” in any true understanding of that term.

And then there are the many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” — who are really saying “yes I do believe in something else out there” — which again functions as its own religion. Many of these people actually strongly believe in supernatural events even if they don’t believe in a supreme God like Christians do.

some religions may not believe in the supernatural - I don't know of any. Having ideas of how the world is organized is not the same as a religion. this seems like an opinion of yours - not a fact. Same with people who are spiritual but not religious, You seem to be stating your opinions as facts. That's my opinion.

Atheists’ ideas on how the world is fit together is informed by science and the scientific method.

First, many religious people are also informed by science.

But more importantly — the scientific method tells us absolutely nothing about the matters that are closest to our hearts — justice, equality, love, relationships, the meaning and purpose of life, fairness, moral obligations and responsibilities, basic ideas of right and wrong, and many other matters. There is no scientific way to “prove” any of these things. A truly honest atheist would say that none of these things really matter. But that’s not where most people want to go and instead they smuggle in values from religion in order to help them make sense of the world and give their life meaning and value.

Also I was the person who posted the other messages and of course what I was stating was simply my opinion — an argument if you will. But there is no way to prove it as a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a cultural Catholic (French flavor) with even fewer ties to the Church. My husband is staunchly atheist and refused to have a religious wedding or baptize the kids. Fine. Your way is also fine.

I think you should be overtly Catholic whenever your MIL is around, just for kicks. Cross yourself often. Tell her you lit a votive and prayed for the welfare of her soul. Mention it's her special day if she has a saint's name and it's that saint's day. Your kids will be in on the joke and be highly amused.

Haha! My obnoxiously atheist SIL gave us a glow-in-the-dark Madonna statue as a "joke" one Christmas, haha, isn't this dumb? I'm not all that religious myself, but I don't see other people's beliefs as a joke. So I put it in the kitchen window, and it's been there for years, sort of benignly looking over my family, and we all kind of like it whatever our differing beliefs. SIL always seems confused when she sees it but hasn't managed to say anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Ignore is the only way. Don’t give her opinion any oxygen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

No — certain types of religion have a belief in a supreme being and supernatural events. But that’s not true across the board — certainly not true of most eastern religions. And even then — for those religions that do believe in a supreme being or supernatural beliefs — the belief in a supreme being or supernatural occurrences is typically part of a larger worldview that goes to the very heart of how the world is organized It is not just an abstract belief in God.

Likewise, Atheists have many ideas about how the world is organized and how it all fits together. It’s the same thing as a “religion” in any true understanding of that term.

And then there are the many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” — who are really saying “yes I do believe in something else out there” — which again functions as its own religion. Many of these people actually strongly believe in supernatural events even if they don’t believe in a supreme God like Christians do.

some religions may not believe in the supernatural - I don't know of any. Having ideas of how the world is organized is not the same as a religion. this seems like an opinion of yours - not a fact. Same with people who are spiritual but not religious, You seem to be stating your opinions as facts. That's my opinion.

Atheists’ ideas on how the world is fit together is informed by science and the scientific method.

First, many religious people are also informed by science.

But more importantly — the scientific method tells us absolutely nothing about the matters that are closest to our hearts — justice, equality, love, relationships, the meaning and purpose of life, fairness, moral obligations and responsibilities, basic ideas of right and wrong, and many other matters. There is no scientific way to “prove” any of these things. A truly honest atheist would say that none of these things really matter. But that’s not where most people want to go and instead they smuggle in values from religion in order to help them make sense of the world and give their life meaning and value.

I would say neurology, psychology, sociology, anthropology, and biology (all sciences) tell us a lot about love and relationships, and how societies function based on mutually agreed upon ideas around fairness, equality, and societal obligations.

Ethics and moral philosophy (based on rational arguments and conceptual analysis discuss moral obligation, and ideas of right and wrong.

You’re right about one thing. Atheists would say that there is not one absolute correct way of being, or path, or moral code (unless you follow Kant’s formula on universal law).

Atheists are obviously comfortable without having God/s give their lives value and meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

No — certain types of religion have a belief in a supreme being and supernatural events. But that’s not true across the board — certainly not true of most eastern religions. And even then — for those religions that do believe in a supreme being or supernatural beliefs — the belief in a supreme being or supernatural occurrences is typically part of a larger worldview that goes to the very heart of how the world is organized It is not just an abstract belief in God.

Likewise, Atheists have many ideas about how the world is organized and how it all fits together. It’s the same thing as a “religion” in any true understanding of that term.

And then there are the many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” — who are really saying “yes I do believe in something else out there” — which again functions as its own religion. Many of these people actually strongly believe in supernatural events even if they don’t believe in a supreme God like Christians do.

some religions may not believe in the supernatural - I don't know of any. Having ideas of how the world is organized is not the same as a religion. this seems like an opinion of yours - not a fact. Same with people who are spiritual but not religious, You seem to be stating your opinions as facts. That's my opinion.

Atheists’ ideas on how the world is fit together is informed by science and the scientific method.

First, many religious people are also informed by science.

But more importantly — the scientific method tells us absolutely nothing about the matters that are closest to our hearts — justice, equality, love, relationships, the meaning and purpose of life, fairness, moral obligations and responsibilities, basic ideas of right and wrong, and many other matters. There is no scientific way to “prove” any of these things. A truly honest atheist would say that none of these things really matter. But that’s not where most people want to go and instead they smuggle in values from religion in order to help them make sense of the world and give their life meaning and value.

I would say neurology, psychology, sociology, anthropology, and biology (all sciences) tell us a lot about love and relationships, and how societies function based on mutually agreed upon ideas around fairness, equality, and societal obligations.

Ethics and moral philosophy (based on rational arguments and conceptual analysis discuss moral obligation, and ideas of right and wrong.

You’re right about one thing. Atheists would say that there is not one absolute correct way of being, or path, or moral code (unless you follow Kant’s formula on universal law).

Atheists are obviously comfortable without having God/s give their lives value and meaning.

DP. Some atheists are obviously comfortable without having any value or meaning at all--that's implicit in your response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

No — certain types of religion have a belief in a supreme being and supernatural events. But that’s not true across the board — certainly not true of most eastern religions. And even then — for those religions that do believe in a supreme being or supernatural beliefs — the belief in a supreme being or supernatural occurrences is typically part of a larger worldview that goes to the very heart of how the world is organized It is not just an abstract belief in God.

Likewise, Atheists have many ideas about how the world is organized and how it all fits together. It’s the same thing as a “religion” in any true understanding of that term.

And then there are the many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” — who are really saying “yes I do believe in something else out there” — which again functions as its own religion. Many of these people actually strongly believe in supernatural events even if they don’t believe in a supreme God like Christians do.

some religions may not believe in the supernatural - I don't know of any. Having ideas of how the world is organized is not the same as a religion. this seems like an opinion of yours - not a fact. Same with people who are spiritual but not religious, You seem to be stating your opinions as facts. That's my opinion.

Atheists’ ideas on how the world is fit together is informed by science and the scientific method.

First, many religious people are also informed by science.

But more importantly — the scientific method tells us absolutely nothing about the matters that are closest to our hearts — justice, equality, love, relationships, the meaning and purpose of life, fairness, moral obligations and responsibilities, basic ideas of right and wrong, and many other matters. There is no scientific way to “prove” any of these things. A truly honest atheist would say that none of these things really matter. But that’s not where most people want to go and instead they smuggle in values from religion in order to help them make sense of the world and give their life meaning and value.

I would say neurology, psychology, sociology, anthropology, and biology (all sciences) tell us a lot about love and relationships, and how societies function based on mutually agreed upon ideas around fairness, equality, and societal obligations.

Ethics and moral philosophy (based on rational arguments and conceptual analysis discuss moral obligation, and ideas of right and wrong.

You’re right about one thing. Atheists would say that there is not one absolute correct way of being, or path, or moral code (unless you follow Kant’s formula on universal law).

Atheists are obviously comfortable without having God/s give their lives value and meaning.

+1

Prior prior poster erred in her reasoning, "the scientific method tells us absolutely nothing about the matters that are closest to our hearts". This is not a true statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being an atheist is not the absence of faith — it is just a very different type of faith. Chances are highly likely that your MIL has all kinds of opinions and views about how the world is ordered, what is right, what is wrong, what happens in the afterlife (if anything) — none of which can be proven scientifically.

These belief systems are her own “religion” even if she doesn’t recognize it as such. The fact that she was very judgmental about your religious choices shows how she isn’t very different from “religious” people. It never ceases to amaze me how many athesists detest so-called “fundamentalist” people and yet they can be just as intolerant, strident, rigid, narrow, and adhering to a set of “rules” about how people MUST act as any fundamentalist person.

True tolerance is being able to look at another’s religious beliefs — or lack thereof — and be able to respectfully disagree and co-exist.

In my view, I wouldn’t shy away from whatever you believe — be it real Catholicism, cultural Catholicism, or no Catholicism at all. I became born again in my early 40s and used to fear talking to my MIL about it because she is also a very loud atheist. But the more I respectfully stated my views and didn’t just give into her — the more she actually respected me. Bullies sometimes respond that way.

No, you're wrong: Being atheist is the lack of religious faith.

A religion is simply a system of beliefs about how the world operates. Every atheist I have ever met has all types of beliefs about how the world operates — about what is right, what is wrong, moral obligations, or lack thereof, justice, equality, and so on — many of which are just as strongly held as the most “religious” people I know. (In fact, many of their atheist beliefs - especially around justice and equality in the United States — are actually drawn from historic Christianity, whether they realize it or not). But none of these things can be scientifically proven. When I used to describe myself as an atheist, it was not the absence of religion — just a very different type of religion.

YOu're wrong about religion too. t's more than a system of beliefs about how the world operates. It's belief in a supreme being. Someone who is supernatural. Atheists have no supernatural beliefs.

No — certain types of religion have a belief in a supreme being and supernatural events. But that’s not true across the board — certainly not true of most eastern religions. And even then — for those religions that do believe in a supreme being or supernatural beliefs — the belief in a supreme being or supernatural occurrences is typically part of a larger worldview that goes to the very heart of how the world is organized It is not just an abstract belief in God.

Likewise, Atheists have many ideas about how the world is organized and how it all fits together. It’s the same thing as a “religion” in any true understanding of that term.

And then there are the many people who describe themselves as “spiritual” but not “religious” — who are really saying “yes I do believe in something else out there” — which again functions as its own religion. Many of these people actually strongly believe in supernatural events even if they don’t believe in a supreme God like Christians do.

some religions may not believe in the supernatural - I don't know of any. Having ideas of how the world is organized is not the same as a religion. this seems like an opinion of yours - not a fact. Same with people who are spiritual but not religious, You seem to be stating your opinions as facts. That's my opinion.

Atheists’ ideas on how the world is fit together is informed by science and the scientific method.

First, many religious people are also informed by science.

But more importantly — the scientific method tells us absolutely nothing about the matters that are closest to our hearts — justice, equality, love, relationships, the meaning and purpose of life, fairness, moral obligations and responsibilities, basic ideas of right and wrong, and many other matters. There is no scientific way to “prove” any of these things. A truly honest atheist would say that none of these things really matter. But that’s not where most people want to go and instead they smuggle in values from religion in order to help them make sense of the world and give their life meaning and value.

Also I was the person who posted the other messages and of course what I was stating was simply my opinion — an argument if you will. But there is no way to prove it as a fact.

I doubt that you're in a position to know what a truly honest atheist would say. Besides, not all atheists think alike about everything -- just about God - they don't believe in God.