Mississippi, Florida, Texas and Louisiana do better on math and reading in 4th and 8th grade tests than MD and VA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this could have to do with quickly getting kids back into school in person during Covid?

Unrelated to that.

It was the use of literacy curricula that do not work to teach reading. See the "Sold a story" podcast.

I'm not so sure. I don't think VA has gotten test scores back to pre covid levels yet. There was a TON of learning loss. Even at the preschool level. We all know how important preschool is. I sent my kid to the only place nearby that was open and they only had maybe 10 kids in the class. Usually there are multiple options with a full class or two.

Preschool?

Generations of people did just fine without preschool. It only became a thing in the last few decades when more women started working.

Define “just fine”.

If you want your school district to have high test scores kids need preschool at 3 and 4 before they are dumped in a classroom of kids that are way ahead of them in schooling and understand the routine and don’t cry at drop off and cling to the teacher for the 1st 3 months.

Only about half of my peers attended preschool in the 70s. Many of us attended T10 schools, med/law school, etc. Successful careers, etc.

Outside of providing childcare, preschool is beneficial to a subset of kids who aren't getting pre-reading support at home. But for most kids it's really not necessary for academic success.

Literally the cohort this discussion is about.

Literally, it's not. We're discussing state-wide test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Google the pros and cons of the Mississippi miracle.

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Be prepared for your child to be held back in 3rd to ensure test scores in 4th are high.

This is a good thing. One of my relatives was held back twice during his education when being held back was common.
He ended up with a highly successful business became a 1%er. I'd rather have literate graduates than graduates that cannot write a sentence. I employed 10 high school grads in Maryland. Two were illiterate including the supervisor. I asked her to write a recommendation letter for someone we had to lay off. It was sad. The supervisor was illiterate and could not write a sentence. I had to rewrite the complete document. Clearly no teachers had ever corrected her sentences or paragraphs during her Maryland public education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google the pros and cons of the Mississippi miracle.

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Be prepared for your child to be held back in 3rd to ensure test scores in 4th are high.

Nothing wrong with kids having to repeat grades. I mean how do you possibly fail early primary school when there's so little material being taught? They probably should have been held back even earlier to give them a better chance of success later.

Sure could should be held back when they’re not performing, but why are they held back in third grade only? Hmm .

It’s so the score is in fourth grade are higher

The program is in its infancy, so I’m sure they’re gonna fix it or I hope

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google the pros and cons of the Mississippi miracle.

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Be prepared for your child to be held back in 3rd to ensure test scores in 4th are high.

This is a good thing. One of my relatives was held back twice during his education when being held back was common.
He ended up with a highly successful business became a 1%er. I'd rather have literate graduates than graduates that cannot write a sentence. I employed 10 high school grads in Maryland. Two were illiterate including the supervisor. I asked her to write a recommendation letter for someone we had to lay off. It was sad. The supervisor was illiterate and could not write a sentence. I had to rewrite the complete document. Clearly no teachers had ever corrected her sentences or paragraphs during her Maryland public education.

You realize that holding someone back would not have stopped someone from graduating illiterate.

We need programs for dyslexic kids. Those people are probably dyslexic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google the pros and cons of the Mississippi miracle.

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Be prepared for your child to be held back in 3rd to ensure test scores in 4th are high.

Nothing wrong with kids having to repeat grades. I mean how do you possibly fail early primary school when there's so little material being taught? They probably should have been held back even earlier to give them a better chance of success later.

Sure could should be held back when they’re not performing, but why are they held back in third grade only? Hmm .

It’s so the score is in fourth grade are higher

The program is in its infancy, so I’m sure they’re gonna fix it or I hope

Why do you care if some score results are cooked? Those are some backwater areas, let them have a win on this, because they're surely hard pressed to get another one when it comes to education.

And in general, parents are literally the number one reason why normal kids will succeed or fail in school regardless of HHI. No school or teachers will be able to overcome that unless they're sent to boarding schools. This sounds callous but trying to spend all resources on trying to fix that segment of the population (as a third party proxy) will always be at the detriment of the unwealthy average students (because wealthy students have outside resources) and it's unfair that schools actively prevent them from ever being able to catch up to the smarter kids and this negatively impacts their future life achievements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google the pros and cons of the Mississippi miracle.

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Be prepared for your child to be held back in 3rd to ensure test scores in 4th are high.

This is a good thing. One of my relatives was held back twice during his education when being held back was common.
He ended up with a highly successful business became a 1%er. I'd rather have literate graduates than graduates that cannot write a sentence. I employed 10 high school grads in Maryland. Two were illiterate including the supervisor. I asked her to write a recommendation letter for someone we had to lay off. It was sad. The supervisor was illiterate and could not write a sentence. I had to rewrite the complete document. Clearly no teachers had ever corrected her sentences or paragraphs during her Maryland public education.

You realize that holding someone back would not have stopped someone from graduating illiterate.

We need programs for dyslexic kids. Those people are probably dyslexic.

Naah. They were just passed along. Their work was never corrected. I'm the PP. The illiterate supervisor kept applying for a job at our local Maryland University. She was applying for the Admin Asst jobs. I kept thinking to myself that you have to be able to write a complete sentence and a paragraph to be an Admin Asst at the local Maryland University. No one had ever told her that she could not write with any level of competence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google the pros and cons of the Mississippi miracle.

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Be prepared for your child to be held back in 3rd to ensure test scores in 4th are high.

This is a good thing. One of my relatives was held back twice during his education when being held back was common.
He ended up with a highly successful business became a 1%er. I'd rather have literate graduates than graduates that cannot write a sentence. I employed 10 high school grads in Maryland. Two were illiterate including the supervisor. I asked her to write a recommendation letter for someone we had to lay off. It was sad. The supervisor was illiterate and could not write a sentence. I had to rewrite the complete document. Clearly no teachers had ever corrected her sentences or paragraphs during her Maryland public education.

You realize that holding someone back would not have stopped someone from graduating illiterate.

We need programs for dyslexic kids. Those people are probably dyslexic.

Naah. They were just passed along. Their work was never corrected. I'm the PP. The illiterate supervisor kept applying for a job at our local Maryland University. She was applying for the Admin Asst jobs. I kept thinking to myself that you have to be able to write a complete sentence and a paragraph to be an Admin Asst at the local Maryland University. No one had ever told her that she could not write with any level of competence.

They are not holding them back for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shocking red doing better than blue on education.

Equity will always lower the bar.

Equal opportunity and discipline offer the ability to raise the bar.

Um, equity is the same thing as equal opportunity…. But not if you are used to extra opportunity.

Equity is the same as meeting student needs. But, the "needs" cannot be that other students are dragged down to the lowest performing students level because they cannot compete and it hurts the feelings of low performers.

Equity means that the school gives at least a very comprehensive, rigorous, robust grade level world class education to everyone - but there should be no ceiling to what individual kids or cohorts who are capable of learning more can learn in the school. Differentiation should be encouraged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Google the pros and cons of the Mississippi miracle.

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Be prepared for your child to be held back in 3rd to ensure test scores in 4th are high.

+1

While some of these states have made huge improvements, test scores alone doesn't tell the full story. They make for misleading clickbait.

OP here. No, it's not click bait. The kids that get held back are not excluded from the data. They take the test when they get to 4th grade. The system has been in place for over a decade and the results are holding up. But it isn't just about retaining kids at 3rd grade. There are also interventions to help kids get on track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mississippi has 99% FARMS eligibility, which severely "adjusts" their scores. Mississippi has low overall income but also lowest cost of living in USA

That is silly nonsense. NAEP scores are not modified or adjusted based on FARMS or other factors.

Yes, they are.

Try reading the OP article, or finding a Mississippi 4th grader to read it to you, if you can't read.

[Anonymous]

The Urban Institute study adjusted for demographic factors including FARMS rates.

The point is that kids from families with lower incomes can learn. The 20% proficiency rates we see in this population in districts like MCPS are appalling and should be treated as an emergency, but instead what happens is people hem and haw about how bad their home lives are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When comparing students that are similar to each other (FARMS, race and ethnicity, ELL and special education status) Mississippi, Florida, Texas and Louisiana all do better than Maryland and Virginia on the NAEP test.

When will our school districts wake up and realize they are failing our kids and can't keep blaming bad parenting and poverty for their failures?

https://www.urban.org/research/publication/states-demographically-adjusted-performance-2024-national-assessment

Those are not even real scores. They are "demographically adjusted."

Second, most of Virginia is in the deep red. It's only Northern Virginia that tends to have high scores, and the study did not break down data that way.

So this post is just pot-stirring.

[Anonymous]

For anyone interested, here is a more realistic view of the scores:

https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=NP&chort=1&sub=MAT&sj=&st=MN&year=2024R3

As you can see, Virginia as a whole did quite well. This is about Virginia, not Northern Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For anyone interested, here is a more realistic view of the scores:

https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=NP&chort=1&sub=MAT&sj=&st=MN&year=2024R3

As you can see, Virginia as a whole did quite well. This is about Virginia, not Northern Virginia.

Virginia didn't do well. In reading Miss, Florida, Louisiana and Maryland all did better.

Reading Scores
Mass. 225
Mississipi. 219
Florida 218
Lousiana. 216
Maryland 216
Virginia 214
Texas 212
California 212
Oregon 207

Mississippi is in the top 10 states now in reading by teaching Reading well using the science of literacy AND holding back third graders who can not read. Those third graders then state law says they MUST receive intensive reading intervention based on the science of reading with progress monitoring to make sure they learn how to read. The retention treatment is designed to specifically address their needs.

Schools love talking about equity, but teaching a student to read is the most equitable thing a school can do. For all the money schools spend on different programs and services, nothing is more important than making sure kids can read yet schools consistently fail to teach all students to read year after year.

This leads to students feeling awful about going to school and too many kids who can't read become behavior problems because they struggle so much. Who wouldn't be angry about having to go to a place where they struggled and were behind year after year. Imagine sitting there and the schedule of what the class is doing all day is written on the board so you can't read it. You ask the teacher if there is PE or art and the teacher is annoyed and says it is on the board. You know how to solve a math problem but you have to do word problems so can't do your math.

The most equitable thing schools could do is to retain students in third grade who can't read. Studies are coming out that show students who are retained in third grade and get reading intervention vs those that go on who are low do much better in 6th grade.

Florida, TX and Miss did better than Virginia in Math

Math Scores
Connecticut 246
Florida 243
Texas 241
Mississipi. 239
Virginia 238
Lousiana. 235
Maryland 234
California 233
Oregon 229

[Anonymous]

Also Mississippi is

Highest scoring state 4th grade reading socially disadvantaged - 212
(Virginia 201 / MD 196 / MINN 197))

3rd highest states for Black Students - 206
(Virginia 199 / MD 201 / MINN 195)

Tied with Florida for highest scoring state for Hispanic Students - 215
(Virginia 198 / MD 198 / MINN 197)