Mississippi, Florida, Texas and Louisiana do better on math and reading in 4th and 8th grade tests than MD and VA

[Anonymous]

I was a third grade teacher for 8 years before moving on to middle school. It was amazing to me how many students could not read. I am talking about basic sight words. Retaining in third grade, to me, does not solve the problem. Students showed a consistent pattern of not being able to read in those foundational years of k-2. Hold them back then. Giving students intervention in third grade but they still have to meet the third grade standards for the year is so pointless. If they are reading on a kindergarten level in first, second and third, then they should have been held back in first. But we don’t do that. The go to is always, well let’s wait and see, they will catch up, the parents don’t agree so we have to move them on. Primary years are k-2 and intermediate years are 3-5. All students should have to test out of primary years before moving into the intermediate years or in other words, this grade. Children should be held back no more than two years with intensive interventions before deciding to move them on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also Mississippi is

Highest scoring state 4th grade reading socially disadvantaged - 212
(Virginia 201 / MD 196 / MINN 197))

3rd highest states for Black Students - 206
(Virginia 199 / MD 201 / MINN 195)

Tied with Florida for highest scoring state for Hispanic Students - 215
(Virginia 198 / MD 198 / MINN 197)

LOL. Look it up. Mississippi held back a ton of kids and gave the test a year later.

While most states were allowing schools to teacher Lucy Calkins /balanced literacy junk, Mississippi mandated 10 years ago students had to be taught phonics. Then Mississippi began holding back students who couldn't read and gave them intensive reading intervention. There is nothing more important in elementary school than to learn to read. The results prove that it works.

Mississippi Retention Data: Reports from early 2026 indicate that 6% of third graders were retained, along with 8.2% of kindergarteners and 7.8% of first-graders. It is cruel to continually pass along students who are illiterate.

Move to Mississippi, then. See how that works out for you.

We should learn from Mississippi instead. They did well. No harm in admitting it.

You want to start retaining a lot of 3rd graders?

NP. If you retain them to get interventions so they can learn to read, rather than passing them to a grade where there's a lot of work they can't do, why is that bad?

MD hired Dr. Carey Wright, the current Maryland State Superintendent, who was the architect of Mississippi's successful reforms.

The reality is if you break the scores by race white students are tied, black students are slightly lower but Hispanic students are much lower.

Terrorizing their community and making it scary to go to school and leaving them without parents isn’t going to help the issue.

Why are Asians always left out of these debates? In many cases Asian parents don't speak fluent English, haven't gone to school in America, nor are they affluent or even middle class. This was even more pronounced in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Yet, their kids outperform every group including UMC whites. Literacy is more than just some stereotype of non-white and/or poor. Pouring endless amounts of money or theories without fixing the roots of the problem isn't the answer. That money could be better used elsewhere or just not taxed into existence.

Not really. Huge levels of income inequality in this population. Looking at average academic performance in this population obscures the needs of Asian communities with lower incomes that are definitely struggling academically.

It's not income that's the distinguishing factor. Some Asian societies place more emphasis on education than others as a means of vertical mobility. It's why the performance strata cuts more significantly between origin and not socioeconomic class.

Asians aren't all the same and unfortunately the societal stereotypes hurt both ends of the Asian spectrum negatively at different points in time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also Mississippi is

Highest scoring state 4th grade reading socially disadvantaged - 212
(Virginia 201 / MD 196 / MINN 197))

3rd highest states for Black Students - 206
(Virginia 199 / MD 201 / MINN 195)

Tied with Florida for highest scoring state for Hispanic Students - 215
(Virginia 198 / MD 198 / MINN 197)

LOL. Look it up. Mississippi held back a ton of kids and gave the test a year later.

While most states were allowing schools to teacher Lucy Calkins /balanced literacy junk, Mississippi mandated 10 years ago students had to be taught phonics. Then Mississippi began holding back students who couldn't read and gave them intensive reading intervention. There is nothing more important in elementary school than to learn to read. The results prove that it works.

Mississippi Retention Data: Reports from early 2026 indicate that 6% of third graders were retained, along with 8.2% of kindergarteners and 7.8% of first-graders. It is cruel to continually pass along students who are illiterate.

Move to Mississippi, then. See how that works out for you.

We should learn from Mississippi instead. They did well. No harm in admitting it.

You want to start retaining a lot of 3rd graders?

NP. If you retain them to get interventions so they can learn to read, rather than passing them to a grade where there's a lot of work they can't do, why is that bad?

+1 for a small group of targeted 3rd graders, this could be very beneficial. The key would be to identify which students would benefit and to increase capacity for the 3rd grade teachers and reading specialists serving these students.

I agree with PP. No harm in admitting that MS did well. The state of Maryland knew this in 2023 when they hired Carey Wright from Mississippi to be State Superintendent of Schools. If you want to learn more about Wright, watch this Planet Word event from last year.

Eyes on Reading: Maryland State Superintendent Carey Wright in Conversation with Emily Hanford
https://planetwordmuseum.org/events/eyes-on-reading-maryland-state-superintendent-carey-wright-in-conversation-with-emily-hanford/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this could have to do with quickly getting kids back into school in person during Covid?

Unrelated to that.

It was the use of literacy curricula that do not work to teach reading. See the "Sold a story" podcast.

Nah, in many southern areas kids were only out of school for 6 weeks during covid.

It was the curriculum. Lucy Caulkins or whatever it was called. Left Va for a smaller area down south (red) and the education is 1,000x better. They still teach the basics and haven’t succumbed to woke BS. All we ever heard was how great LCPS was and found it to be lacking across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this could have to do with quickly getting kids back into school in person during Covid?

In my county in Florida kids were only home for about 4 weeks during Covid. Then almost everyone returned to school. This was common throughout the south.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this could have to do with quickly getting kids back into school in person during Covid?

Unrelated to that.

It was the use of literacy curricula that do not work to teach reading. See the "Sold a story" podcast.

Nah, in many southern areas kids were only out of school for 6 weeks during covid.

It was the curriculum. Lucy Caulkins or whatever it was called. Left Va for a smaller area down south (red) and the education is 1,000x better. They still teach the basics and haven’t succumbed to woke BS. All we ever heard was how great LCPS was and found it to be lacking across the board.

Being woke is a very good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this could have to do with quickly getting kids back into school in person during Covid?

In my county in Florida kids were only home for about 4 weeks during Covid. Then almost everyone returned to school. This was common throughout the south.

Arkansas, Florida, Texas, South Dakota, Wyoming were all adamant about returning to in-person school full time by fall of 2020. Mississippi was like a number of other states that allowed in‑person schooling fall of 2020 but didn’t require it. Districts were allowed to go hybrid or fully virtual.

None of those states saw the same rise in educational outcomes that Mississippi did. COVID policies couldn’t have been the deciding factor. Mississippi wasn’t even among the first states to fully reopen.

It’s the policy and curriculum changes that led to the Mississippi Miracle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought they held the kids back who can’t read in some of those states. Those kids who can’t read aren’t part of the data because they are held back. Kinda simple to understand that would make the data look better since it is only the kids who are reading who are counted!

This X100. Forget red ( maga scum) vs blue ( flaky empathy) for a minute and look at it from a social policy perspective.

Failing kids out increases drop out rates and increases crime. Teenage drop outs with no job prospects commit crimes and join gangs etc. The states failing kids out have much bigger problems with poverty and crime.

So while passing them along drops the educational standards, it decreases poverty and crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this could have to do with quickly getting kids back into school in person during Covid?

Unrelated to that.

It was the use of literacy curricula that do not work to teach reading. See the "Sold a story" podcast.

Nah, in many southern areas kids were only out of school for 6 weeks during covid.

It was the curriculum. Lucy Caulkins or whatever it was called. Left Va for a smaller area down south (red) and the education is 1,000x better. They still teach the basics and haven’t succumbed to woke BS. All we ever heard was how great LCPS was and found it to be lacking across the board.

What you get in the lower grades you can surely teach at home anywhere in America. However, high school will almost assuredly have fewer opportunities for learning and advancing in math and science compared to LCPS for actually smart kids. And the bridge that is middle school might not prepare them for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought they held the kids back who can’t read in some of those states. Those kids who can’t read aren’t part of the data because they are held back. Kinda simple to understand that would make the data look better since it is only the kids who are reading who are counted!

This X100. Forget red ( maga scum) vs blue ( flaky empathy) for a minute and look at it from a social policy perspective.

Failing kids out increases drop out rates and increases crime. Teenage drop outs with no job prospects commit crimes and join gangs etc. The states failing kids out have much bigger problems with poverty and crime.

So while passing them along drops the educational standards, it decreases poverty and crime.

"High blood pressure increases chances of a heart attack, so changing the machines to read out lower levels will reduce chances of a heart attack"

This is what you sound like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this could have to do with quickly getting kids back into school in person during Covid?

Unrelated to that.

It was the use of literacy curricula that do not work to teach reading. See the "Sold a story" podcast.

Nah, in many southern areas kids were only out of school for 6 weeks during covid.

It was the curriculum. Lucy Caulkins or whatever it was called. Left Va for a smaller area down south (red) and the education is 1,000x better. They still teach the basics and haven’t succumbed to woke BS. All we ever heard was how great LCPS was and found it to be lacking across the board.

What you get in the lower grades you can surely teach at home anywhere in America. However, high school will almost assuredly have fewer opportunities for learning and advancing in math and science compared to LCPS for actually smart kids. And the bridge that is middle school might not prepare them for that.

Dual enrollment.

LCPS middle school isn't all that anyways - there's a reason why parents supplement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how much of this could have to do with quickly getting kids back into school in person during Covid?

Unrelated to that.

It was the use of literacy curricula that do not work to teach reading. See the "Sold a story" podcast.

Nah, in many southern areas kids were only out of school for 6 weeks during covid.

It was the curriculum. Lucy Caulkins or whatever it was called. Left Va for a smaller area down south (red) and the education is 1,000x better. They still teach the basics and haven’t succumbed to woke BS. All we ever heard was how great LCPS was and found it to be lacking across the board.

What you get in the lower grades you can surely teach at home anywhere in America. However, high school will almost assuredly have fewer opportunities for learning and advancing in math and science compared to LCPS for actually smart kids. And the bridge that is middle school might not prepare them for that.

Dual enrollment.

LCPS middle school isn't all that anyways - there's a reason why parents supplement.

Sure DE exists. But kids need to be prepared to take them from previous classes over the years. For example, our kids have taken multiple DE classes and have found them to be relatively easy while the CC students in the classes have struggled. But that's because our kids have had a solid foundation in prerequisite coursework.

However, back to public school. Teachers can only teach to the level of the students and rural areas are not exactly known for rigor. So kids would generally be less prepared for DE classes.

And supplementation is always the correct answer but the assumption was that this was not the reason they moved to a smaller area.

[Anonymous]

I would love to see them run a correlation to this data and to schools using Phonics based literacy programs vs Lucy Calkins/Fountas&Pinnell based literacy programs.

It is a miracle my (smart) kids learned to read in LCPS. Struggling kids didn't have a chance. They only switched to phonics based instruction 3 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a third grade teacher for 8 years before moving on to middle school. It was amazing to me how many students could not read. I am talking about basic sight words. Retaining in third grade, to me, does not solve the problem. Students showed a consistent pattern of not being able to read in those foundational years of k-2. Hold them back then. Giving students intervention in third grade but they still have to meet the third grade standards for the year is so pointless. If they are reading on a kindergarten level in first, second and third, then they should have been held back in first. But we don’t do that. The go to is always, well let’s wait and see, they will catch up, the parents don’t agree so we have to move them on. Primary years are k-2 and intermediate years are 3-5. All students should have to test out of primary years before moving into the intermediate years or in other words, this grade. Children should be held back no more than two years with intensive interventions before deciding to move them on.

To this point, they should do advance from K before meeting the K milestones, or 1st without meeting those milestones, etc. If kids are passed along before meeting grade level proficiency, even foe one grade, they will only get farther behind.

[Anonymous]

Public schools make it very hard to retain a child. I’m assuming it’s money but I don’t know all the reasons. It’s HARD.