Columbia Grammar & Prep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would trust your gut. My DC is in Dwight (another school that is being frowned upon by the former Urban Baby crowd) and I am very happy with the level of academics in K-4 (I am aware things may change in middle and high school). Small groups for reading and math, hard core phonics (no "balanced literacy" nonsense), Singapore math with additional challenges for more advanced students, bi-annual standardized testing to monitor progress in math and literacy (NWEA), entirely normal parents (with plenty of international families including mine). I am glad I discounted second hand feedback and ignored the "dumb white idiots getting high together" label. DC consistently scores in 97-99 percentiles in NWEA (with zero supplementation or coaching) so the school must be doing something right.

To be honest, while your description of Dwight sounds perfectly fine, it also sounds more-or-less identical to what my youngest kid is currently experiencing at a public elementary school, though admittedly the class sizes are a lot larger (but that'll no longer be a problem in 2 years) - small groups, no 'balanced literacy,' Singapore math with advanced challenges (including Math Olympiad), thrice-yearly MAP tests, normal parents...

... which shows that different schools will work for different children and it makes sense to trust intuition and prioritize first hand experience over hearsay.

I have got multiple friends with kids in local public schools and while they all seem happy with their choices, they also all supplement school with extra academics (either RSM or, more recently, AoPS). I am not in favor of this for my DC. School already takes plenty of time and adding 2 extra hours of classes (especially over weekends) and overloading kids with extra homework at elementary age seems too much. All DC's math knowledge comes from school and I am quite pleased with the result. It is entirely possible that some public schools offer the same (or better?) quality of academics but I went with my gut and I am now happy I did.

You travel in very different circles than I do. I'm an uptown public school parent. I know numerous kids (including one of my own) who went to top Manhattan gen ed schools (elementary and middle) who did not not supplement at all - normal kids who did sports, music, art, etc. and went to regular camp, visiting family or whatever in the summer. They then went on to do great on SHSAT and/or ISEE (they might have done some tutoring for this), get into top SHSAT schools and/or very good private schools, and did very well in these schools. Not sure where you are hearing about all these kids supplementing.

Ironically, the main kids I know who supplement are the self-proclaimed geniuses at Anderson. The parents there will claim that it is because their kids are so smart that they need to be further challenged, but I find this questionable as those kids do no better at the top high schools than the kids I'm referencing above. The school is just a bit of a conformist cult.

Also an uptown public school parent. My kids went to one of the nice general ed schools mentioned above, then Booker T for middle. One left for Hunter in 7th, the other finished 8th at Booker then onto Bronx Science. I couldn't have asked for better experiences. And it was all completely free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ironically, the main kids I know who supplement are the self-proclaimed geniuses at Anderson. The parents there will claim that it is because their kids are so smart that they need to be further challenged, but I find this questionable as those kids do no better at the top high schools than the kids I'm referencing above. The school is just a bit of a conformist cult.

I'm the previous public school poster and while we don't see a lot of supplementing now aside from SHSAT prep, we did see a ton of it a few years ago when we lived in the suburbs - for whatever reason, that school district made the MAP tests into a *huge deal*, every kid knew their score and compared scores and got stressed about scores, and this seems to have inspired parents to panic and spend lots of money on unnecessary tutoring. Often for very smart kids who didn't need it and complained to my also-smart daughter constantly about how incredibly boring it was to spend two hours a week doing endless Kumon problems. (they didn't actually use the scores for anything like class placements or a magnet school or whatever, it was purely an ego thing)

So I certainly believe tutoring is happening in some places - and maybe even certain schools in NYC - but I don't think it's necessary in most cases. And I suspect a lot of the same sorts of people who subject their kids to it in public schools are also doing so in private ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically, the main kids I know who supplement are the self-proclaimed geniuses at Anderson. The parents there will claim that it is because their kids are so smart that they need to be further challenged, but I find this questionable as those kids do no better at the top high schools than the kids I'm referencing above. The school is just a bit of a conformist cult.

I'm the previous public school poster and while we don't see a lot of supplementing now aside from SHSAT prep, we did see a ton of it a few years ago when we lived in the suburbs - for whatever reason, that school district made the MAP tests into a *huge deal*, every kid knew their score and compared scores and got stressed about scores, and this seems to have inspired parents to panic and spend lots of money on unnecessary tutoring. Often for very smart kids who didn't need it and complained to my also-smart daughter constantly about how incredibly boring it was to spend two hours a week doing endless Kumon problems. (they didn't actually use the scores for anything like class placements or a magnet school or whatever, it was purely an ego thing)

So I certainly believe tutoring is happening in some places - and maybe even certain schools in NYC - but I don't think it's necessary in most cases. And I suspect a lot of the same sorts of people who subject their kids to it in public schools are also doing so in private ones.

Gotcha. Well I was just refuting the person above who made it sound like supplementing with Russian Math or whatever else was ubiquitous in gen ed public schools and used this to justify private. I'm sure there are those who do this, but as you noted, they are the exception, not the rule. There are so many misleading rumors floating around here, many which get left unchecked.

I have generally found that these obsessive families who supplement and do other similar activities rather than just letting their kids be kids generally don't end up "ahead." The kids often burn out and/or it is eventually revealed that they just aren't that bright. It should not require that much extra effort to do well in school. You can't turn your kid into something they are not. Let them have happy childhoods. They will still be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have generally found that these obsessive families who supplement and do other similar activities rather than just letting their kids be kids generally don't end up "ahead." The kids often burn out and/or it is eventually revealed that they just aren't that bright. It should not require that much extra effort to do well in school. You can't turn your kid into something they are not. Let them have happy childhoods. They will still be fine.

Oh absolutely; even now I know a bunch of the families doing SHSAT tutoring in my oldest kid's class and I am very confident most of those kids would be happier at Beacon or ElRo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have generally found that these obsessive families who supplement and do other similar activities rather than just letting their kids be kids generally don't end up "ahead." The kids often burn out and/or it is eventually revealed that they just aren't that bright. It should not require that much extra effort to do well in school. You can't turn your kid into something they are not. Let them have happy childhoods. They will still be fine.

Oh absolutely; even now I know a bunch of the families doing SHSAT tutoring in my oldest kid's class and I am very confident most of those kids would be happier at Beacon or ElRo.

I differentiate test prep from things like Russian Math and other "enrichment" supplements. Fortunately or unfortunately, a lot depends on those tests. By prepping for them, one can truly enhance their chances of doing better. Russian Math parents think their little genius isn't being challenged so need more academics. A mentality of which I am very skeptical. The vast majority of these kids are not nearly as smart as they think and would be better served to relax and enjoy life. And no, your kid does not really enjoy this. They would be happier hanging out with their friends in the playground.

Also, the public school process is very dependent on luck. Even if you are tier 1, if you don't have a good lottery number, you cannot dream of ElRo, Beacon, or any of the other top Gen Ed public high schools. The way things are now, if your kid is Tier 1, they will probably get a pretty good school, but it is far from certain. And you don't know your lottery number until early senior year, just a month or two before the SHSAT. So if you find out then that you have an E or F lottery number, it is too late to pivot and start studying. So it is wise to prep. There are plenty of kids who turn down SHSAT schools for the top Gen Ed schools like ElRo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would trust your gut. My DC is in Dwight (another school that is being frowned upon by the former Urban Baby crowd) and I am very happy with the level of academics in K-4 (I am aware things may change in middle and high school). Small groups for reading and math, hard core phonics (no "balanced literacy" nonsense), Singapore math with additional challenges for more advanced students, bi-annual standardized testing to monitor progress in math and literacy (NWEA), entirely normal parents (with plenty of international families including mine). I am glad I discounted second hand feedback and ignored the "dumb white idiots getting high together" label. DC consistently scores in 97-99 percentiles in NWEA (with zero supplementation or coaching) so the school must be doing something right.

To be honest, while your description of Dwight sounds perfectly fine, it also sounds more-or-less identical to what my youngest kid is currently experiencing at a public elementary school, though admittedly the class sizes are a lot larger (but that'll no longer be a problem in 2 years) - small groups, no 'balanced literacy,' Singapore math with advanced challenges (including Math Olympiad), thrice-yearly MAP tests, normal parents...

... which shows that different schools will work for different children and it makes sense to trust intuition and prioritize first hand experience over hearsay.

I have got multiple friends with kids in local public schools and while they all seem happy with their choices, they also all supplement school with extra academics (either RSM or, more recently, AoPS). I am not in favor of this for my DC. School already takes plenty of time and adding 2 extra hours of classes (especially over weekends) and overloading kids with extra homework at elementary age seems too much. All DC's math knowledge comes from school and I am quite pleased with the result. It is entirely possible that some public schools offer the same (or better?) quality of academics but I went with my gut and I am now happy I did.

You travel in very different circles than I do. I'm an uptown public school parent. I know numerous kids (including one of my own) who went to top Manhattan gen ed schools (elementary and middle) who did not not supplement at all - normal kids who did sports, music, art, etc. and went to regular camp, visiting family or whatever in the summer. They then went on to do great on SHSAT and/or ISEE (they might have done some tutoring for this), get into top SHSAT schools and/or very good private schools, and did very well in these schools. Not sure where you are hearing about all these kids supplementing.

Well... your post may be reenforcing the point I was trying to make to the OP. I may have stereotypes about elementary public schools. Other posters may have stereotypes about Columbia Grammar. I do not think non-CGPS school parents can authoritatively claim that OP will be better off in one of the local public schools. If she really liked CGPS's approach to academics, she should probably trust her intuition and try to chat to current parents instead of relying on second hand opinions or hearsay. FWIW, I do not know CGPS at all so I cannot express any opinion on the school academics.

On supplementation - I fully acknowledge my view is subjective but popularity of RSM, AoPS and other similar programs has gone through the roof since Covid. If your kids are already in SHSAT or a private high school, they might not have caught the latest trend. Of course, I do not know all the parents - I can only talk about people I know personally - but both RSM and AoPS keep growing at an elementary level - a reflection of a strong demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would trust your gut. My DC is in Dwight (another school that is being frowned upon by the former Urban Baby crowd) and I am very happy with the level of academics in K-4 (I am aware things may change in middle and high school). Small groups for reading and math, hard core phonics (no "balanced literacy" nonsense), Singapore math with additional challenges for more advanced students, bi-annual standardized testing to monitor progress in math and literacy (NWEA), entirely normal parents (with plenty of international families including mine). I am glad I discounted second hand feedback and ignored the "dumb white idiots getting high together" label. DC consistently scores in 97-99 percentiles in NWEA (with zero supplementation or coaching) so the school must be doing something right.

To be honest, while your description of Dwight sounds perfectly fine, it also sounds more-or-less identical to what my youngest kid is currently experiencing at a public elementary school, though admittedly the class sizes are a lot larger (but that'll no longer be a problem in 2 years) - small groups, no 'balanced literacy,' Singapore math with advanced challenges (including Math Olympiad), thrice-yearly MAP tests, normal parents...

... which shows that different schools will work for different children and it makes sense to trust intuition and prioritize first hand experience over hearsay.

I have got multiple friends with kids in local public schools and while they all seem happy with their choices, they also all supplement school with extra academics (either RSM or, more recently, AoPS). I am not in favor of this for my DC. School already takes plenty of time and adding 2 extra hours of classes (especially over weekends) and overloading kids with extra homework at elementary age seems too much. All DC's math knowledge comes from school and I am quite pleased with the result. It is entirely possible that some public schools offer the same (or better?) quality of academics but I went with my gut and I am now happy I did.

You travel in very different circles than I do. I'm an uptown public school parent. I know numerous kids (including one of my own) who went to top Manhattan gen ed schools (elementary and middle) who did not not supplement at all - normal kids who did sports, music, art, etc. and went to regular camp, visiting family or whatever in the summer. They then went on to do great on SHSAT and/or ISEE (they might have done some tutoring for this), get into top SHSAT schools and/or very good private schools, and did very well in these schools. Not sure where you are hearing about all these kids supplementing.

Well... your post may be reenforcing the point I was trying to make to the OP. I may have stereotypes about elementary public schools. Other posters may have stereotypes about Columbia Grammar. I do not think non-CGPS school parents can authoritatively claim that OP will be better off in one of the local public schools. If she really liked CGPS's approach to academics, she should probably trust her intuition and try to chat to current parents instead of relying on second hand opinions or hearsay. FWIW, I do not know CGPS at all so I cannot express any opinion on the school academics.

On supplementation - I fully acknowledge my view is subjective but popularity of RSM, AoPS and other similar programs has gone through the roof since Covid. If your kids are already in SHSAT or a private high school, they might not have caught the latest trend. Of course, I do not know all the parents - I can only talk about people I know personally - but both RSM and AoPS keep growing at an elementary level - a reflection of a strong demand.

Two points:

1. If most people you know have their kids in those programs, I suggest you meet new people. Most parents I know who do that are insufferable.

2. My point in noting all the kids I know doing well without having gone through those programs is to show that they are not necessary to do well in the best high schools. There are some kids at these high schools who did those programs. And from what I know they are doing no better than those who didn't (though I admittedly don't have a lot of data points on this so I could be wrong). So I'm not really sure what these people are accomplishing other than denying their children a well-rounded, joyful, happy childhood. And please don't tell me that advanced math gives them joy (not directing this specifically at you!).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I differentiate test prep from things like Russian Math and other "enrichment" supplements. Fortunately or unfortunately, a lot depends on those tests. By prepping for them, one can truly enhance their chances of doing better. Russian Math parents think their little genius isn't being challenged so need more academics. A mentality of which I am very skeptical. The vast majority of these kids are not nearly as smart as they think and would be better served to relax and enjoy life. And no, your kid does not really enjoy this. They would be happier hanging out with their friends in the playground.

Also, the public school process is very dependent on luck. Even if you are tier 1, if you don't have a good lottery number, you cannot dream of ElRo, Beacon, or any of the other top Gen Ed public high schools. The way things are now, if your kid is Tier 1, they will probably get a pretty good school, but it is far from certain. And you don't know your lottery number until early senior year, just a month or two before the SHSAT. So if you find out then that you have an E or F lottery number, it is too late to pivot and start studying. So it is wise to prep. There are plenty of kids who turn down SHSAT schools for the top Gen Ed schools like ElRo.

Sorry, re-reading my comment I realize it gave the wrong impression - I wasn’t trying to suggest they have a choice here, or that they’re wrong to do test prep when they don’t know how things will shake out lottery wise, but rather that a lot of the people pushing their kids into SHSAT schools are also the ones pushing them to do 2 hours a week of RSM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I differentiate test prep from things like Russian Math and other "enrichment" supplements. Fortunately or unfortunately, a lot depends on those tests. By prepping for them, one can truly enhance their chances of doing better. Russian Math parents think their little genius isn't being challenged so need more academics. A mentality of which I am very skeptical. The vast majority of these kids are not nearly as smart as they think and would be better served to relax and enjoy life. And no, your kid does not really enjoy this. They would be happier hanging out with their friends in the playground.

Also, the public school process is very dependent on luck. Even if you are tier 1, if you don't have a good lottery number, you cannot dream of ElRo, Beacon, or any of the other top Gen Ed public high schools. The way things are now, if your kid is Tier 1, they will probably get a pretty good school, but it is far from certain. And you don't know your lottery number until early senior year, just a month or two before the SHSAT. So if you find out then that you have an E or F lottery number, it is too late to pivot and start studying. So it is wise to prep. There are plenty of kids who turn down SHSAT schools for the top Gen Ed schools like ElRo.

Sorry, re-reading my comment I realize it gave the wrong impression - I wasn’t trying to suggest they have a choice here, or that they’re wrong to do test prep when they don’t know how things will shake out lottery wise, but rather that a lot of the people pushing their kids into SHSAT schools are also the ones pushing them to do 2 hours a week of RSM.

Fair enough. And I'm saying that I know many kids who got into SHSAT schools coming out of public school without doing that (including mine). So ignore them - they don't know what they are doing. Some tutoring is strongly encouraged by the "enrichment" is garbage. Anyone who has that mentality needs to chill and is not someone who I want to hang out with - I know plenty of them and generally avoid them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you! Noted on all - this super helpful. But can anyone happen to speak to their academic curriculum for K-5? Like specifically are they learning different things than other independent schools? I was pretty impressed with what I saw as it pertains to the worksheets and smaller groups for reading and math. Honestly, a lot more so than in some TT schools I toured. But maybe I am missing something! I don’t care about reputation or at this point really anything past 5th grade - I just have a bright boy that loves to learn and loves to play chess so it was feeling like a good home for him. I really appreciate everyone taking the time! This is such a crazy process.

We just accepted the offer from CGPS for the same reasons. We are not uber wealthy and not white, and we are hopeful to make friends and be fine at the school!