Starting language immersion in 2nd grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any immersion schools that will take a newbie in 2nd grade? Our immersion charter doesn't accept new kids after prek4.

I'm pretty sure Mundo Verde takes kids at any grade.

I previously had a DC there in first grade, who had a classmate transfer in. He described that student really struggling - though I have no insight into how prepared or not the student was before school started.

My immersion elementary school kid comes home with work written entirely in Spanish. I don't know how someone who doesn't speak could keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please spare me the “my mother came here as a third grader and speaks fluent English”. Yes in that situation you have no choice but to speak English. You have no choice but to learn if you want to participate in society. Spanish immersion only works if your kid truly thinks no one else will understand him or her. They all know people around them speak English. You’re asking too much of your child. And this is unnecessary.

+1,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there any immersion schools that will take a newbie in 2nd grade? Our immersion charter doesn't accept new kids after prek4.

I'm pretty sure Mundo Verde takes kids at any grade.

I previously had a DC there in first grade, who had a classmate transfer in. He described that student really struggling - though I have no insight into how prepared or not the student was before school started.

My immersion elementary school kid comes home with work written entirely in Spanish. I don't know how someone who doesn't speak could keep up.

If OP is crazy enough to even consider this for her 2nd grader which is a very bad move, I would not list MV where expectations are high in spanish.

Yes they take a few kids in upper grades but these kids are from DCPS bilingual schools and even they come in behind.

[Anonymous]

2nd is too late unless your child already speaks Spanish some at home. It is also an important year for academic learning generally. Only you can evaluate that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great idea. Spanish is not a hard language.

This is just a racist take

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience as a spanish tutor this is an incredibly poor decision. I truly believe 1st grade is too late, and second and above is borderline child abuse. I have never seen a child thrive in this situation. Sure sometimes they can muddle through- but is that what you want your kid to think about themselves? Do you want to spend many thousands on enrichment, tutoring, etc? I have yet to see a summer camp in this area that does a good job teaching spanish. They are essentially Spanish exposure. Changing all your screens to English works on toddlers, not on kids who can read and know how to switch them back. You’re going to teach your kid to look at the pictures and tune out the voices. Please don’t do this. If you go ahead and do it (and again, your kid will resent you) please set them up with a one on one tutor and in person group lessons.

I find this negative take really interesting. Kids in Europe and other places learn second and third languages in higher grades. I think it is a lot of work to achieve fluency, but not a horrible idea. Especially for a bright kid that wants to learn.

When they teach languages to children in Europe they do not use the immersion model. They teach it as a foreign language. Kids have greater ability to learn languages but not the same way a 3 year old can learn them. They teach grammar, vocabulary etc using word lists etc. the immersion model assumes your brain will be able to retain this information naturally. This really isn’t the case. At best your child will speak very very poorly and be deprived of some serious learning which takes place in 2nd grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my experience as a spanish tutor this is an incredibly poor decision. I truly believe 1st grade is too late, and second and above is borderline child abuse. I have never seen a child thrive in this situation. Sure sometimes they can muddle through- but is that what you want your kid to think about themselves? Do you want to spend many thousands on enrichment, tutoring, etc? I have yet to see a summer camp in this area that does a good job teaching spanish. They are essentially Spanish exposure. Changing all your screens to English works on toddlers, not on kids who can read and know how to switch them back. You’re going to teach your kid to look at the pictures and tune out the voices. Please don’t do this. If you go ahead and do it (and again, your kid will resent you) please set them up with a one on one tutor and in person group lessons.

My kid started immersion in 2nd grade. His mom and I both speak fluent Spanish. By spring, he was speaking Spanish to people in Mexico. Yes, it was tough. He got annoyed that we spoke mostly Spanish to him for a couple of years. But - by middle school, he like it when people struck up conversations with him in Ecuador to say how cool it was that we, as a non-native speaking family were speaking Spanish to one another and doing group tours and stuff in Spanish. And by college, he worked entirely in and took classes in Spanish and had a professor ask what Spanish speaking country he grew up in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience as a spanish tutor this is an incredibly poor decision. I truly believe 1st grade is too late, and second and above is borderline child abuse. I have never seen a child thrive in this situation. Sure sometimes they can muddle through- but is that what you want your kid to think about themselves? Do you want to spend many thousands on enrichment, tutoring, etc? I have yet to see a summer camp in this area that does a good job teaching spanish. They are essentially Spanish exposure. Changing all your screens to English works on toddlers, not on kids who can read and know how to switch them back. You’re going to teach your kid to look at the pictures and tune out the voices. Please don’t do this. If you go ahead and do it (and again, your kid will resent you) please set them up with a one on one tutor and in person group lessons.

My kid started immersion in 2nd grade. His mom and I both speak fluent Spanish. By spring, he was speaking Spanish to people in Mexico. Yes, it was tough. He got annoyed that we spoke mostly Spanish to him for a couple of years. But - by middle school, he like it when people struck up conversations with him in Ecuador to say how cool it was that we, as a non-native speaking family were speaking Spanish to one another and doing group tours and stuff in Spanish. And by college, he worked entirely in and took classes in Spanish and had a professor ask what Spanish speaking country he grew up in.

This is not the same scenario. OP and her household are not fluent in spanish. Even your household, which is fluent in spanish, said it was tough and you got pushback from your kid with the spanish for years.

Also, I’m sure school was tough too in elementary because he didn’t know spanish and likely didn’t do as well as he could.

This is all from parents who are fluent. Now imagine a household who is not fluent or with limited spanish who cannot just speak spanish 100% at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience as a spanish tutor this is an incredibly poor decision. I truly believe 1st grade is too late, and second and above is borderline child abuse. I have never seen a child thrive in this situation. Sure sometimes they can muddle through- but is that what you want your kid to think about themselves? Do you want to spend many thousands on enrichment, tutoring, etc? I have yet to see a summer camp in this area that does a good job teaching spanish. They are essentially Spanish exposure. Changing all your screens to English works on toddlers, not on kids who can read and know how to switch them back. You’re going to teach your kid to look at the pictures and tune out the voices. Please don’t do this. If you go ahead and do it (and again, your kid will resent you) please set them up with a one on one tutor and in person group lessons.

I find this negative take really interesting. Kids in Europe and other places learn second and third languages in higher grades. I think it is a lot of work to achieve fluency, but not a horrible idea. Especially for a bright kid that wants to learn.

When they teach languages to children in Europe they do not use the immersion model. They teach it as a foreign language. Kids have greater ability to learn languages but not the same way a 3 year old can learn them. They teach grammar, vocabulary etc using word lists etc. the immersion model assumes your brain will be able to retain this information naturally. This really isn’t the case. At best your child will speak very very poorly and be deprived of some serious learning which takes place in 2nd grade.

The DC schools aren't 100% immersion at that level though, right? At most it's 50/50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience as a spanish tutor this is an incredibly poor decision. I truly believe 1st grade is too late, and second and above is borderline child abuse. I have never seen a child thrive in this situation. Sure sometimes they can muddle through- but is that what you want your kid to think about themselves? Do you want to spend many thousands on enrichment, tutoring, etc? I have yet to see a summer camp in this area that does a good job teaching spanish. They are essentially Spanish exposure. Changing all your screens to English works on toddlers, not on kids who can read and know how to switch them back. You’re going to teach your kid to look at the pictures and tune out the voices. Please don’t do this. If you go ahead and do it (and again, your kid will resent you) please set them up with a one on one tutor and in person group lessons.

My kid started immersion in 2nd grade. His mom and I both speak fluent Spanish. By spring, he was speaking Spanish to people in Mexico. Yes, it was tough. He got annoyed that we spoke mostly Spanish to him for a couple of years. But - by middle school, he like it when people struck up conversations with him in Ecuador to say how cool it was that we, as a non-native speaking family were speaking Spanish to one another and doing group tours and stuff in Spanish. And by college, he worked entirely in and took classes in Spanish and had a professor ask what Spanish speaking country he grew up in.

This is not the same scenario. OP and her household are not fluent in spanish. Even your household, which is fluent in spanish, said it was tough and you got pushback from your kid with the spanish for years.

Also, I’m sure school was tough too in elementary because he didn’t know spanish and likely didn’t do as well as he could.

This is all from parents who are fluent. Now imagine a household who is not fluent or with limited spanish who cannot just speak spanish 100% at home.

Reading is fundamental. OP said “I am a fluent (but not native) speaker and would be able to assist.”

Also, I know you are keen to support you point, but making assumptions about other people’s kids is not a good idea. I said my kid got annoyed when we spoke Spanish with him. “Pushback” is your invention. My kid’s “pushback” consisted of answering us in English. “Likely didn’t do as well as well as he could” is also you invention, and not correct. He actually really enjoyed writing poetry in Spanish, and, in our case, found reading aloud in Spanish much easier than in English because it’s phonetic and he’s somewhat dyslexic. By middle school, he was reading far above grade level in both languages, and getting As in subjects taught in both languages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my experience as a spanish tutor this is an incredibly poor decision. I truly believe 1st grade is too late, and second and above is borderline child abuse. I have never seen a child thrive in this situation. Sure sometimes they can muddle through- but is that what you want your kid to think about themselves? Do you want to spend many thousands on enrichment, tutoring, etc? I have yet to see a summer camp in this area that does a good job teaching spanish. They are essentially Spanish exposure. Changing all your screens to English works on toddlers, not on kids who can read and know how to switch them back. You’re going to teach your kid to look at the pictures and tune out the voices. Please don’t do this. If you go ahead and do it (and again, your kid will resent you) please set them up with a one on one tutor and in person group lessons.

I find this negative take really interesting. Kids in Europe and other places learn second and third languages in higher grades. I think it is a lot of work to achieve fluency, but not a horrible idea. Especially for a bright kid that wants to learn.

When they teach languages to children in Europe they do not use the immersion model. They teach it as a foreign language. Kids have greater ability to learn languages but not the same way a 3 year old can learn them. They teach grammar, vocabulary etc using word lists etc. the immersion model assumes your brain will be able to retain this information naturally. This really isn’t the case. At best your child will speak very very poorly and be deprived of some serious learning which takes place in 2nd grade.

The DC schools aren't 100% immersion at that level though, right? At most it's 50/50.

I think DCPS schools are but some immersion charters are 100% immersion such as MV. 100% in ECE and K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm assuming it's for charter schools, as DCPS will not take a new student into immersion program after 1st grade.

And yet, we put kids with zero English knowledge into schools all the time with a small amount of ESOL support and just hope for the best.

[Anonymous]

A kid in my daughter's 3rd grade class just did this and is fine. She's a super bright and engaged kid and picked up the spanish very quickly. We're only a bit more than 50% through the school year and she's doing great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm assuming it's for charter schools, as DCPS will not take a new student into immersion program after 1st grade.

And yet, we put kids with zero English knowledge into schools all the time with a small amount of ESOL support and just hope for the best.

Yes, kids are constitutionally entitled to public education regardless of their English speaking ability or native language. We have to "put them into schools", there's no alternative. But it's not an optimal situation.

There's no constitutional right to a language immersion education or elective bilingualism. Being a native English speaker who is bilingual and also knows Spanish is nice, but not a "need" in the way that a native Spanish speaker (or any other non-English language) needs to learn English. Elective vs. circumstantial bilingualism. Immersion schools want to optimize their students' opportunities for success to learn the language, be overall successful in school, and feel comfortable and happy at school. And entering after 1st grade with no prior experience in that language is not going to do that. So they don't allow it.

[Anonymous]

not in dc, but ime the level of language after one or two years of immersion is not so high as to be insurmountable by a bright/talented kid. local public immersion schools take new kids in first grade, no questions asked, and will take kids in higher grades after testing. some local immersion schools will take kids at any grade, and offer special support to help them catch up.

whether your kid resents it is going to depend on their temprament.