Are middle schoolers generally awful to each other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 8th grade ds is having a tough year. Kids are teasing him and making snide remarks to him. He moved from private to public school this year. But he had some friends in town so he knew people. It’s hard for me to tell if he’s being bullied or outcast or if he is just being sensitive to middle schoolers being rude middle schoolers. Like he said he will say things and some rude boys will say, “no one cares” some girl called him “Billy badass” today in response to something he said. I can’t tell if this is normal

That's a compliment!
She probably likes him.
Learn to, and then teach him to, learn to roll with it. You both sound very sensitive, which people will pick up on that and tease you both even worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pretty common. All the boys are horrible to each other. I think DS is the only one who is kind and nice to others.

Every parent wants to think and believe that. You just don't know or don't want to know how you own kid is when you aren't around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pretty common. All the boys are horrible to each other. I think DS is the only one who is kind and nice to others.

Same with our DS.

He said he personally witnessed 2 fist-fights in MS. At the 2nd one, the ring of students watching the fight not only did not intervene, some kid started saying he was taking bets on who would win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty common. All the boys are horrible to each other. I think DS is the only one who is kind and nice to others.

Same with our DS.

He said he personally witnessed 2 fist-fights in MS. At the 2nd one, the ring of students watching the fight not only did not intervene, some kid started saying he was taking bets on who would win.

That's good. Nothing worse than those types who always try to interject themselves in other people's affairs.

Only time spectators should get involved in a fight is if one person goes limp and knocked out, and the other person is still beating them. Then they should pull off the winner and let them cool off and the unconcious person gather themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty common. All the boys are horrible to each other. I think DS is the only one who is kind and nice to others.

Same with our DS.

He said he personally witnessed 2 fist-fights in MS. At the 2nd one, the ring of students watching the fight not only did not intervene, some kid started saying he was taking bets on who would win.

That's good. Nothing worse than those types who always try to interject themselves in other people's affairs.

Only time spectators should get involved in a fight is if one person goes limp and knocked out, and the other person is still beating them. Then they should pull off the winner and let them cool off and the unconcious person gather themselves.

That's assuming that both parties are willing participants and a kid wasn't jumped, correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty common. All the boys are horrible to each other. I think DS is the only one who is kind and nice to others.

Same with our DS.

He said he personally witnessed 2 fist-fights in MS. At the 2nd one, the ring of students watching the fight not only did not intervene, some kid started saying he was taking bets on who would win.

That's good. Nothing worse than those types who always try to interject themselves in other people's affairs.

Only time spectators should get involved in a fight is if one person goes limp and knocked out, and the other person is still beating them. Then they should pull off the winner and let them cool off and the unconcious person gather themselves.

That's assuming that both parties are willing participants and a kid wasn't jumped, correct?

If a kid is "jumped" by one person, then the fight should be allowed to continue as he might need to win to prevent future bullying. If they are jumped by more than one person, and they are losing badly, then same intervention good-samaritain rule applies to pull them off the loser.

[Anonymous]

I think my DD is a thoughtful and caring kid, but I find that she talks to her friends, in person and over text, in ways that make me say, Excuse me? Sarcasm and casual put-downs. And some kids aim to be unkind and exclude to increase their sense of power and control. But also, I think the base is more snarkiness, and a thick skin helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband has been a public middle school teacher for 25 years. It is the only grade span he was insistent that we send our kids to private school.

What he regularly observes is that kids at that age will do things in a group that they would never do alone. So most kids wouldn't make an unprovoked snide remark to another student but put them in a group and someone can say something and another person in the group will make another snide comment then the rest of the group will laugh. Some of the behaviors that student engage in are so much worse when they are in a group and they do things they wouldn't dream of doing alone.

So unless you are a really secure kid or one who just doesn't care at all, you are slightly on edge when you speak in a group because someone might turn on you and the group will go along with it. So if someone else is being teased there can be a sense of relief it isn't you so you go along and laugh at someone else.

So what I noticed with my son (and of course it could be our experience is unique) was by 3rd grade at his large well regarded public school that students were cut down by other students if you couldn't do something well, if you tripped, if you missed scoring a goal, if you said something that wasn't perceived as being cool. There were at least 100 student per grade level. My son and best friend had other friends, were included, and always played sports with other kids at recess, so it wasn't something that we really noticed.

When my son started 4th grade at a private religious school (were aren't religious but it was what we could afford and it was close to our house) were there were around 30 kids in his grade. What I immediately noticed was that the students were much friendlier. The first day of class when the students lined up the boy in front of him did a double take and turned around. My son looked a little wary like he was going to say something mean, but the kid said - hi, you must be new and introduced himself and gave him a high five and turned back around in line.

That really was his experience until he finished 8th grade. There of course was some teasing but it was much gentler. He gradually became much more outgoing. It wasn't that he was shy before but he just got so much practice speaking to other students and staff members without any negativity. There were more opportunities to say something even if it came out a little goofy without fear of being laughed at, speak in class, present in front of the whole school, etc. So that became his expectation that if you speak to someone else, they will be friendly.

He is back at public high school with his best friend and his friend's parents comment how outgoing our son became because they have noticed he just has an easier time now speaking to other students as well as to adults in the community. When they were together in elementary school they really had the same temperament.

It’s odd to make this about private vs public school. Some cohorts of kids are worse than others just based on luck of draw and who the kids are in your setting. A lot of times in private school settings when there is social trouble or mean kids, there is no way to get away from them. At least in a larger setting there is hope to avoid and/or find new kids.

OP my son was definitely teased a lot in 7th/8th grade. Boys at that age can absolutely be mean. I do think it calms down in high school and also they start peer handling things more. Eventually the mean kids get iced out by peers.

No, we all know it's not luck, which is why some houses cost way more.

For OP, your son needs to get into sports to make some friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband has been a public middle school teacher for 25 years. It is the only grade span he was insistent that we send our kids to private school.

What he regularly observes is that kids at that age will do things in a group that they would never do alone. So most kids wouldn't make an unprovoked snide remark to another student but put them in a group and someone can say something and another person in the group will make another snide comment then the rest of the group will laugh. Some of the behaviors that student engage in are so much worse when they are in a group and they do things they wouldn't dream of doing alone.

So unless you are a really secure kid or one who just doesn't care at all, you are slightly on edge when you speak in a group because someone might turn on you and the group will go along with it. So if someone else is being teased there can be a sense of relief it isn't you so you go along and laugh at someone else.

So what I noticed with my son (and of course it could be our experience is unique) was by 3rd grade at his large well regarded public school that students were cut down by other students if you couldn't do something well, if you tripped, if you missed scoring a goal, if you said something that wasn't perceived as being cool. There were at least 100 student per grade level. My son and best friend had other friends, were included, and always played sports with other kids at recess, so it wasn't something that we really noticed.

When my son started 4th grade at a private religious school (were aren't religious but it was what we could afford and it was close to our house) were there were around 30 kids in his grade. What I immediately noticed was that the students were much friendlier. The first day of class when the students lined up the boy in front of him did a double take and turned around. My son looked a little wary like he was going to say something mean, but the kid said - hi, you must be new and introduced himself and gave him a high five and turned back around in line.

That really was his experience until he finished 8th grade. There of course was some teasing but it was much gentler. He gradually became much more outgoing. It wasn't that he was shy before but he just got so much practice speaking to other students and staff members without any negativity. There were more opportunities to say something even if it came out a little goofy without fear of being laughed at, speak in class, present in front of the whole school, etc. So that became his expectation that if you speak to someone else, they will be friendly.

He is back at public high school with his best friend and his friend's parents comment how outgoing our son became because they have noticed he just has an easier time now speaking to other students as well as to adults in the community. When they were together in elementary school they really had the same temperament.

It’s odd to make this about private vs public school. Some cohorts of kids are worse than others just based on luck of draw and who the kids are in your setting. A lot of times in private school settings when there is social trouble or mean kids, there is no way to get away from them. At least in a larger setting there is hope to avoid and/or find new kids.

OP my son was definitely teased a lot in 7th/8th grade. Boys at that age can absolutely be mean. I do think it calms down in high school and also they start peer handling things more. Eventually the mean kids get iced out by peers.

No, we all know it's not luck, which is why some houses cost way more.

For OP, your son needs to get into sports to make some friends.

So only poor kids are mean?

Dumbest post ever. Also read the OPs post the kid plays a sport.

[Anonymous]

Yes, my son's sports team talks such trash to each other. Finally my son had enough of being teased and straight-out asked a kid: Why are you being such a dick? It affects my playing mentally. The kid was like wow sorry I was just fooling around and backed off.
I truly don't think they even realize how jerky they are -- it's all jockeying for position like wild animals. I do think it gets better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband has been a public middle school teacher for 25 years. It is the only grade span he was insistent that we send our kids to private school.

What he regularly observes is that kids at that age will do things in a group that they would never do alone. So most kids wouldn't make an unprovoked snide remark to another student but put them in a group and someone can say something and another person in the group will make another snide comment then the rest of the group will laugh. Some of the behaviors that student engage in are so much worse when they are in a group and they do things they wouldn't dream of doing alone.

So unless you are a really secure kid or one who just doesn't care at all, you are slightly on edge when you speak in a group because someone might turn on you and the group will go along with it. So if someone else is being teased there can be a sense of relief it isn't you so you go along and laugh at someone else.

So what I noticed with my son (and of course it could be our experience is unique) was by 3rd grade at his large well regarded public school that students were cut down by other students if you couldn't do something well, if you tripped, if you missed scoring a goal, if you said something that wasn't perceived as being cool. There were at least 100 student per grade level. My son and best friend had other friends, were included, and always played sports with other kids at recess, so it wasn't something that we really noticed.

When my son started 4th grade at a private religious school (were aren't religious but it was what we could afford and it was close to our house) were there were around 30 kids in his grade. What I immediately noticed was that the students were much friendlier. The first day of class when the students lined up the boy in front of him did a double take and turned around. My son looked a little wary like he was going to say something mean, but the kid said - hi, you must be new and introduced himself and gave him a high five and turned back around in line.

That really was his experience until he finished 8th grade. There of course was some teasing but it was much gentler. He gradually became much more outgoing. It wasn't that he was shy before but he just got so much practice speaking to other students and staff members without any negativity. There were more opportunities to say something even if it came out a little goofy without fear of being laughed at, speak in class, present in front of the whole school, etc. So that became his expectation that if you speak to someone else, they will be friendly.

He is back at public high school with his best friend and his friend's parents comment how outgoing our son became because they have noticed he just has an easier time now speaking to other students as well as to adults in the community. When they were together in elementary school they really had the same temperament.

I didn't read your insanely long post, but I have two in private and I have to say. middle schoolers in private school are probably just as catty and mean to each other as in public school. There are just fewer kids in our school (100) as in the public school (1000). In some ways this might make bullying worse. We know one family that left our school in middle school because their daughter didn't fit in.

"I didn't read your insanely long post" as a starter sentence is the adult version of MS mean kids. So maybe the apples don't fall far from the tree? The DMV is filled with rude, angry adults who are mean, ruled by cut throat ambition and care a lot about whether their kids are popular so they actively participate in ensuring their kids are "cool" - even if that means being exclusionary. Not everyone is like this, but a lot of them are. So, yes MS sucks for a lot of kids. Large urban/suburban, wealthy areas are filled with people like this and they breed kids who are also like this so it's skewed towards being even more miserable around here, I'm sorry to say.

[Anonymous]

The head of our middle school once said, "middle schoolers act first and think later." That explained a lot of obnoxious behavior that DS encountered. The kids were a bunch of turds. They don't really start to mature/change much until 12th grade. Fortunately, college is a different ball game and so much better!

[Anonymous]

We've lucked out so far. DS has a small group of friends and he certainly has some interests and stuff that I've been worried would get him picked on, but we've seemed to avoid it so far. He goes to a smaller school, so maybe that helps somewhat.

[Anonymous]

Yes, MS students are very mean to each other. And, the foul language is shocking!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 8th grade ds is having a tough year. Kids are teasing him and making snide remarks to him. He moved from private to public school this year. But he had some friends in town so he knew people. It’s hard for me to tell if he’s being bullied or outcast or if he is just being sensitive to middle schoolers being rude middle schoolers. Like he said he will say things and some rude boys will say, “no one cares” some girl called him “Billy badass” today in response to something he said. I can’t tell if this is normal

I never understand why people start with DCUM on something like this, instead of starting with their DS's teacher(s)? That teacher has far far more specific and relevant and real info about the dynamics in the classroom, how OP's DS comes across, and what has worked best in that environment for countering it.

Sure, not all teachers are great at really giving useful answers, but it still should ALWAYS be the first person/people you talk to after your DC tells you they're struggling and describes their struggle to you.

DCUM is amazing for general advice, but anytime I bring my concerned parent questions to DCUM, it's usually with more info about what the teacher or whoever the adult that is most connected to the issue said when I talked to them or what happened when I tried to talk to them.