How and why did Asia supplant Europe at being better at pastries and bread making?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because Asians love sugar. They put lots of sugar in bread and pastries and love to make sweet things. Europeans like sweets but nothing like Asians.

Milk bread anyone?

I agree that Asian sweets tend to be sweeter and not always in a preferable way. Also I think a lot of Asian pastry that is spectacular is very specific to one restaurant or bakery. But in France or Vienna you will stumble into some random bakery and still be able to find amazing bread or basic pastries. The top pastry chefs in Tokyo might be doing more creative, exciting things than the top pastry chefs in Paris, but the average croissant in Paris is still better than the average croissant in Tokyo because there's just a floor for pastry in France in terms of quality and that's not necessarily true in other places.

Spoken like someone who has never been to cities like Seoul or Tokyo. They have B
boulangeries and patisseries on almost every single block there. The quality is outstanding on average, and beats much of the stuff you can find in Paris or Vienna. Japan and South Korea are often obsessed with French culture and recapitulate back at home so well now that theyre doing it better. It is well known that in France bread and croissant making is a dying art. No one wants to work hard anymore for long hours in order to sell 1 euro baguettes. Contract that to Asia where they have an inherent philosophy that if you are going to do something, do it well and be as perfectionist as possible. I mean we are talking about areas of the world where they have to cook and handle rice for 10 years before they're all to handle fish to make sushi, and we are surprised the Japanese now beat France in pastry competitions? Almost no one in the world can beat the Jaoanese when it comes to dedication to a craft and extreme attention to detail.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, this take that everything is a competition is weird.

And “best” is very subjective. People’s taste buds are different and different people like different things.

Very weird to suggest one country’s pastries as a whole are better than another’s.

[Anonymous]

The Japanese have been obsessed with French culture for decades. There are French fine jewelry designers whose only foreign outposts are in Japan and they have loyal clientele.

Japanese creatives have always strived for excellence over ease and pastry is an attractive art form due to its precision. You can’t fake it. There are several incredible Japanese- and Korean-run bakeries in Paris too. I’m dying to go to Rayonnance for a parfait

https://www.instagram.com/patisserie_yuki_lumi/?ig_mid=7DAAED28-2F0E-4760-9593-4623E4D3D162&utm_source=igweb

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian pastries are not my favourites. Too dry, overly sweet, or weirdly bland.

Agreed.

Tell me you’ve never been to Asia without actually saying it. You don’t know what you’re talking about (and choose to generalize about billions of people.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian pastries are not my favourites. Too dry, overly sweet, or weirdly bland.

Agreed.

Tell me you’ve never been to Asia without actually saying it. You don’t know what you’re talking about (and choose to generalize about billions of people.)

lol, ok. I’ve lived in China and Japan, and been to a majority of Asian countries. Also, we’re talking about pastries, not people, so no, I am not generalizing about them. Unless every single Asian is a pastry chef, unbeknownst to me. It’s ok to have a difference of opinion here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians had bread making way before europe, so they had many centuries to perfect. Stop making flour western.

But also there are Asian flavor and texture concepts like really complement pastries like QQ and umami.

But we aren't just talking about rustic bread making. Europeans clearly introduced the art of making pastries with ton of fat content and invented the methods for layering dough to get products like croissants. Making croissants is entirely a western concept. Yet in Asian now you can find so many places that make far better croissants, scones with clotted cream, tarts, cakes and pastries overall than what you get in Europe. How and why did Asia take it over?

Again, the Vietnam War.

Same reason Algerians also make insanely good pastries.

Also adding: Koreans and Vietnamese make really good wings because of our GIs/war

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians had bread making way before europe, so they had many centuries to perfect. Stop making flour western.

But also there are Asian flavor and texture concepts like really complement pastries like QQ and umami.

But we aren't just talking about rustic bread making. Europeans clearly introduced the art of making pastries with ton of fat content and invented the methods for layering dough to get products like croissants. Making croissants is entirely a western concept. Yet in Asian now you can find so many places that make far better croissants, scones with clotted cream, tarts, cakes and pastries overall than what you get in Europe. How and why did Asia take it over?

Again, the Vietnam War.

Same reason Algerians also make insanely good pastries.

Also adding: Koreans and Vietnamese make really good wings because of our GIs/war

For real, they never had chicken before we introduced it to them!

[Anonymous]

I've been to Japan and China many times, but not other countries. In both those cultures, food is a big obsession and it's a highly competitive market, so I can see people being focused on perfecting it. That's my only guess.

[Anonymous]

It's news to me that Asia has better bread than Europe or the US. I like the milk bread of East Asia but is someone seriously claiming there's better sourdough and artisanal bread in Asia now?

I do like and even prefer Japanese style French patisseries as it's less rich and less sweet but not sure if I'd ever call it "better." It's just a different interpretation.

[Anonymous]

I am shocked people think Asian pastries are too sweet! Is this a joke? American desserts and pastries are so sweet they are mostly inedible for anyone over 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am shocked people think Asian pastries are too sweet! Is this a joke? American desserts and pastries are so sweet they are mostly inedible for anyone over 10.

yeah, asian cakes and pastries are noticeably LESS sweet and lighter in texture than Western desserts. That is the reason we prefer buying cakes from Asian bakeries. The western style ones at least in America are so sweet and dense I can only take one bite before I have to stop. Cheesecake? those ridiculous fancy cupcake shops with three inches of frosting? Gives me a toothache just thinking about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am shocked people think Asian pastries are too sweet! Is this a joke? American desserts and pastries are so sweet they are mostly inedible for anyone over 10.

Asia also encompasses South Asia and outside the US people commonly think of India as well, and that may be the place with the sweetest pastries in the world. Otherwise agree that East Asian desserts are significantly less sweet than American desserts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's news to me that Asia has better bread than Europe or the US. I like the milk bread of East Asia but is someone seriously claiming there's better sourdough and artisanal bread in Asia now?

I do like and even prefer Japanese style French patisseries as it's less rich and less sweet but not sure if I'd ever call it "better." It's just a different interpretation.

Nah fam. You need go travel more. Literally the best breads I've had in my life were in Japan and South Korea. And I've been all over Europe. I don't think you truly understand the extreme to which people in Japan, for example, will take their craft. These kinds of places are all over Japan and South Korea now:

And yes, without question they're better at making bread than the US. No, we aren't talking about stereotypical milk breads etc. We are talking about rustic sourdough to baguettes.

God, it is so obvious Americans don't travel much outside the western world. It may shock people to learn that the world huge, and that yes, people in Asia eat fantastic western foods too and that they are capable of making it even better than westerners themselves because they put tons of effort into honing the craft once they learn western techniques and dishes.

[Anonymous]

Look at the precision of this Japanese baker on youtube.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's news to me that Asia has better bread than Europe or the US. I like the milk bread of East Asia but is someone seriously claiming there's better sourdough and artisanal bread in Asia now?

I do like and even prefer Japanese style French patisseries as it's less rich and less sweet but not sure if I'd ever call it "better." It's just a different interpretation.

Nah fam. You need go travel more. Literally the best breads I've had in my life were in Japan and South Korea. And I've been all over Europe. I don't think you truly understand the extreme to which people in Japan, for example, will take their craft. These kinds of places are all over Japan and South Korea now:

And yes, without question they're better at making bread than the US. No, we aren't talking about stereotypical milk breads etc. We are talking about rustic sourdough to baguettes.

God, it is so obvious Americans don't travel much outside the western world. It may shock people to learn that the world huge, and that yes, people in Asia eat fantastic western foods too and that they are capable of making it even better than westerners themselves because they put tons of effort into honing the craft once they learn western techniques and dishes.

Most Americans never travel outside of North America, actually, and the primary reasons are that it's very expensive. If they travel internationally, Europe and South and Central America are far closer and more affordable than Asia. Traveling to Asia for most Americans is simply an impossibility. It's not a lack of interest. Keep in mind Americans get a tiny amount of vacation time (and are discouraged from using all of it), must pay for college themselves, must save for their own retirement, and have some of the highest individual healthcare costs in the world. Scoffing that such people aren't hopping on planes to Japan is far more ignorant than an American not knowing about the bread-making skills of certain bakers in Asia.

When you travel in Asia, do you mock the many, many people there who have never traveled outside their home country? I bet they love it when you leave.