How and why did Asia supplant Europe at being better at pastries and bread making?

[Anonymous]

Asia is blowing Europe out of the water at their own art:

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/27/travel/japan-france-pastry-world-cup-intl-hnk/

If you've been to Japan, Singapore, Thailand, South Korea, Malaysia, China, etc..you'll know. Asia is blowing the doors off pastry and bread making. You get far better croissants, baguettes, cakes, and other pastries now in Asian than you do in France, Italy, or virtually anywhere else. They take extreme attention to detail, to optimizing food chemistry, and introducing new flavors and designs in Asia. But how and why did this come to be? Do the French simply not have enough students anymore? Does no one in the west want to spend the time anymore learning the craft to become a master expert.

Yes, we've been to Japan 3 times and France 4. Japan was the clear winner for croissants, pastries and bread by a country mile. I am still dreaming about the Danish we had with wild berries from the forests at the foot of Mt. Fuji with a sweet cream center made with cream from Hokkaido cows. Perfect pastry dough too.

[Anonymous]

Will add too that we had mind blowing croissants in South Korea that were better than all the top rated spots we tried in Paris. Asians are kind of obsessed with certain aspects of French or Italian food culture but take it to the extreme and next level when they re-create it.

[Anonymous]

Asians had bread making way before europe, so they had many centuries to perfect. Stop making flour western.

But also there are Asian flavor and texture concepts like really complement pastries like QQ and umami.

[Anonymous]

Vietnam.

French bakers brought parties and baguettes and the climate is better for making them.

[Anonymous]

A lot of French bread is made from dough made in a central kitchen someplace. That's why they started the thing where bakeries are labeled as "artisinal" or not, meaning the dough is made in the bakery.

Vietnamese bakeries are great. They took French bread and pastry recipes and recreated them, sometimes in slightly different ways which are delicious. It's a pretty old tradition at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asians had bread making way before europe, so they had many centuries to perfect. Stop making flour western.

But also there are Asian flavor and texture concepts like really complement pastries like QQ and umami.

But we aren't just talking about rustic bread making. Europeans clearly introduced the art of making pastries with ton of fat content and invented the methods for layering dough to get products like croissants. Making croissants is entirely a western concept. Yet in Asian now you can find so many places that make far better croissants, scones with clotted cream, tarts, cakes and pastries overall than what you get in Europe. How and why did Asia take it over?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians had bread making way before europe, so they had many centuries to perfect. Stop making flour western.

But also there are Asian flavor and texture concepts like really complement pastries like QQ and umami.

But we aren't just talking about rustic bread making. Europeans clearly introduced the art of making pastries with ton of fat content and invented the methods for layering dough to get products like croissants. Making croissants is entirely a western concept. Yet in Asian now you can find so many places that make far better croissants, scones with clotted cream, tarts, cakes and pastries overall than what you get in Europe. How and why did Asia take it over?

Again, the Vietnam War.

Same reason Algerians also make insanely good pastries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians had bread making way before europe, so they had many centuries to perfect. Stop making flour western.

But also there are Asian flavor and texture concepts like really complement pastries like QQ and umami.

But we aren't just talking about rustic bread making. Europeans clearly introduced the art of making pastries with ton of fat content and invented the methods for layering dough to get products like croissants. Making croissants is entirely a western concept. Yet in Asian now you can find so many places that make far better croissants, scones with clotted cream, tarts, cakes and pastries overall than what you get in Europe. How and why did Asia take it over?

Stop colonizing food! There has been flaky Asian pastries of flour layered with fat before europe. And europeans got their idea of layered pastries from Africa and the Middle East.

Asia "took over" because they've been doing it the whole time

[Anonymous]

Inventing is superior to copying.

[Anonymous]

I have noticed this but I also prefer Asian baked goods in general anyways. I think Asians are just all foodies, the whole continent. Add to that a strong work ethic with attention to detail and you get a lot of good food and good copying (with a bit of Asian twist added).

[Anonymous]

Coffee culture is huge in Asia and people are just as enamored with France and Italy as the US is. They adapt foreign food to Asian taste just like we adapted pasta into spaghetti and meatballs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Coffee culture is huge in Asia and people are just as enamored with France and Italy as the US is. They adapt foreign food to Asian taste just like we adapted pasta into spaghetti and meatballs.

And coffee is yet another thing that comes from Asia and Africa that Asians are supposedly copying.

And don't even get me started on pasta. Clearly noodles are Asian!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians had bread making way before europe, so they had many centuries to perfect. Stop making flour western.

But also there are Asian flavor and texture concepts like really complement pastries like QQ and umami.

But we aren't just talking about rustic bread making. Europeans clearly introduced the art of making pastries with ton of fat content and invented the methods for layering dough to get products like croissants. Making croissants is entirely a western concept. Yet in Asian now you can find so many places that make far better croissants, scones with clotted cream, tarts, cakes and pastries overall than what you get in Europe. How and why did Asia take it over?

Again, the Vietnam War.

Same reason Algerians also make insanely good pastries.

Japan is like 2000 miles away from Vietnam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asians had bread making way before europe, so they had many centuries to perfect. Stop making flour western.

But also there are Asian flavor and texture concepts like really complement pastries like QQ and umami.

But we aren't just talking about rustic bread making. Europeans clearly introduced the art of making pastries with ton of fat content and invented the methods for layering dough to get products like croissants. Making croissants is entirely a western concept. Yet in Asian now you can find so many places that make far better croissants, scones with clotted cream, tarts, cakes and pastries overall than what you get in Europe. How and why did Asia take it over?

Stop colonizing food! There has been flaky Asian pastries of flour layered with fat before europe. And europeans got their idea of layered pastries from Africa and the Middle East.

Asia "took over" because they've been doing it the whole time

Omg, shut up. Croissants are entirely a western invention. The ones colonizing and cultural appropriating are Asians now, lol. And they are doing it better.

[Anonymous]

Asians tend to be much more focused on food - to the detriment of other areas of civic life like public cleanliness.
But back to the food, yes, there is an obsessiveness about food. Whereas parts of Northern Europe, *cough* the UK, isn't known for food. Asians really cultivate a food idea and take it further.
How many Dutch, Finnish, Swedish or Scottish restaurants are there in major cities? In NY, there is maybe one German restaurant. As well, no Irish restaurants but lots of pubs.
Does anyone get excited about heading out to a Belgian restaurant? If you are lucky, it may have some Moroccan dishes.