Vance the Fake Catholic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disturbing. It is not up to us to judge whether or not Vance or Pelosi or Biden or anyone else is a fake Catholic or Protestant or Jew or Mormon or Muslim.

This is matter between God and the individual's conscience.

There are some basic rules to being a Catholic and it's to raise your kids as Catholic and he did not baptize them so no.

This is the rule for couples married in the Catholic church. This did not happen with the Vances, but their marriage is viewed as licit by the church as they were both Catholics. In this circumstance of JD but not Usha converting to Catholicism after marriage, the general rule for baptizing and raising your children as Catholics does not apply.

Rather, the church gives priority to not disrupting the bonds of marriage by creating acrimony between the couple. For example, it may be the case that Usha is adamant that the children make a choice whether to be baptized or not. If she cannot be dissuaded by gentle encouragement, Vance is not obliged to baptize the children against her wishes and, in fact, the church would discourage him from doing so for fear of damage to the marriage.

This is handled as a pastoral matter, where the priest encourages the couple to baptize the children, raise them as Catholics, and see to their catechisis. In the Vance's case, JD takes them to mass (with Usha) and sends them to Catholic schools, which Usha may have accepted. But she may continue to hold out on baptism. That said, I believe the oldest son decided to be baptized when he was seven, so one of the children is baptized.

^^ second sentence should read "...as they were both non-Catholics."

But he was supposedly an evangelical when he married, they are counseled strenuously not to "yoke themselves with unbelievers." Face it, there is nothing remotely visible in this man's life that is consistent with any faith he has professed. He converted when he started getting into the Leonard Leo FedSoc power vortex because it was expedient to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disturbing. It is not up to us to judge whether or not Vance or Pelosi or Biden or anyone else is a fake Catholic or Protestant or Jew or Mormon or Muslim.

This is matter between God and the individual's conscience.

There are some basic rules to being a Catholic and it's to raise your kids as Catholic and he did not baptize them so no.

This is the rule for couples married in the Catholic church. This did not happen with the Vances, but their marriage is viewed as licit by the church as they were both Catholics. In this circumstance of JD but not Usha converting to Catholicism after marriage, the general rule for baptizing and raising your children as Catholics does not apply.

Rather, the church gives priority to not disrupting the bonds of marriage by creating acrimony between the couple. For example, it may be the case that Usha is adamant that the children make a choice whether to be baptized or not. If she cannot be dissuaded by gentle encouragement, Vance is not obliged to baptize the children against her wishes and, in fact, the church would discourage him from doing so for fear of damage to the marriage.

This is handled as a pastoral matter, where the priest encourages the couple to baptize the children, raise them as Catholics, and see to their catechisis. In the Vance's case, JD takes them to mass (with Usha) and sends them to Catholic schools, which Usha may have accepted. But she may continue to hold out on baptism. That said, I believe the oldest son decided to be baptized when he was seven, so one of the children is baptized.

^^ second sentence should read "...as they were both non-Catholics."

But he was supposedly an evangelical when he married, they are counseled strenuously not to "yoke themselves with unbelievers." Face it, there is nothing remotely visible in this man's life that is consistent with any faith he has professed. He converted when he started getting into the Leonard Leo FedSoc power vortex because it was expedient to do so.

I believe he dabbled in Pentacostalism as a teenager, but don't think he was much of anything when he married. His marriage was civil, which is considered a licit marriage of non-Catholics by the Catholic church so long as civil marriage requirements are met, e.g., not bigamous, proper licenses etc.

Even if he were an evangelical who belonged to a church that disapproved marriage to an "unbeliever" when he married, that would have no bearing on whether the Catholic church deemed their marriage licit because all that matters is whether the civil marriage met legal requirements.

[Anonymous]

Look, this is easy. You can tell that some people really live their faiths. Pence, Romney, Biden, Pelosi, etc. Politics doesn't come into it.

Vance? It's clear as day that he's been a vine looking for support all his life. He needs to feel part of something bigger than himself, and the Catholic Church is indeed a very powerful, long-lived, storied, somewhat mysterious, secretive and glitzy organization. He even had to build up to it. But I don't think he has a principled or God-fearing bone in his body, that man. I'd put Lindsay Graham in that category as well. Those two are deeply insecure people who due to their childhood upbringings, were born to be attracted to the schoolyard bullies. Their jobs in life are Attack Dog and Greek Chorus. They're not leaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This man is not a Catholic.
He wasnt raised one and doesnt follow the Church's teaching.
He defends and apologizes for the Antichrist.
He deemed fit to try and lecture our Holy Father and then blow off criticism of the blasphemous mockery of his death.
Please excommunicate this man.

He also killed the Pope. He's a Pope killer.

Pope Killer is such a great way to think of him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, this is easy. You can tell that some people really live their faiths. Pence, Romney, Biden, Pelosi, etc. Politics doesn't come into it.

Vance? It's clear as day that he's been a vine looking for support all his life. He needs to feel part of something bigger than himself, and the Catholic Church is indeed a very powerful, long-lived, storied, somewhat mysterious, secretive and glitzy organization. He even had to build up to it. But I don't think he has a principled or God-fearing bone in his body, that man. I'd put Lindsay Graham in that category as well. Those two are deeply insecure people who due to their childhood upbringings, were born to be attracted to the schoolyard bullies. Their jobs in life are Attack Dog and Greek Chorus. They're not leaders.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This man is not a Catholic.
He wasnt raised one and doesnt follow the Church's teaching.
He defends and apologizes for the Antichrist.
He deemed fit to try and lecture our Holy Father and then blow off criticism of the blasphemous mockery of his death.
Please excommunicate this man.

He also killed the Pope. He's a Pope killer.

Pope Killer is such a great way to think of him.

And I do. Sort of. I can’t imagine the state of mind of someone who would insist on pushing for a meeting and photo op with a frail, elderly, recently hospitalized person on an incredibly busy, already stressful day. The Pope put him off on Saturday, and Vance pushed and got his moment Sunday. At the very least, Vance deliberately added stress to the last days of someone in fragile health. Who does that? Isn’t selfishness a sin for Catholics? Pope Killer Vance must have had an interesting confession after that one.

Question: Would a priest ever refuse to give someone absolution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, this is easy. You can tell that some people really live their faiths. Pence, Romney, Biden, Pelosi, etc. Politics doesn't come into it.

Vance? It's clear as day that he's been a vine looking for support all his life. He needs to feel part of something bigger than himself, and the Catholic Church is indeed a very powerful, long-lived, storied, somewhat mysterious, secretive and glitzy organization. He even had to build up to it. But I don't think he has a principled or God-fearing bone in his body, that man. I'd put Lindsay Graham in that category as well. Those two are deeply insecure people who due to their childhood upbringings, were born to be attracted to the schoolyard bullies. Their jobs in life are Attack Dog and Greek Chorus. They're not leaders.

Vance enlisted in the USMC straight out of high school in the middle of the GWOT and at the beginning of OIF. That singular act alone exceeds anything Biden, Pelosi, Romney or Pence have done. That’s before we even get into the actual character of the four role models you reference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disturbing. It is not up to us to judge whether or not Vance or Pelosi or Biden or anyone else is a fake Catholic or Protestant or Jew or Mormon or Muslim.

This is matter between God and the individual's conscience.

There are some basic rules to being a Catholic and it's to raise your kids as Catholic and he did not baptize them so no.

This is the rule for couples married in the Catholic church. This did not happen with the Vances, but their marriage is viewed as licit by the church as they were both Catholics. In this circumstance of JD but not Usha converting to Catholicism after marriage, the general rule for baptizing and raising your children as Catholics does not apply.

Rather, the church gives priority to not disrupting the bonds of marriage by creating acrimony between the couple. For example, it may be the case that Usha is adamant that the children make a choice whether to be baptized or not. If she cannot be dissuaded by gentle encouragement, Vance is not obliged to baptize the children against her wishes and, in fact, the church would discourage him from doing so for fear of damage to the marriage.

This is handled as a pastoral matter, where the priest encourages the couple to baptize the children, raise them as Catholics, and see to their catechisis. In the Vance's case, JD takes them to mass (with Usha) and sends them to Catholic schools, which Usha may have accepted. But she may continue to hold out on baptism. That said, I believe the oldest son decided to be baptized when he was seven, so one of the children is baptized.

How do you know all this about him?

[Anonymous]

Question: Would a priest ever refuse to give someone absolution?

Priests can and do refuse absolution if they believe that the penitent is not truly sorry for their sins or has reason to believe they do not intend to commit the confessed sin again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, this is easy. You can tell that some people really live their faiths. Pence, Romney, Biden, Pelosi, etc. Politics doesn't come into it.

Vance? It's clear as day that he's been a vine looking for support all his life. He needs to feel part of something bigger than himself, and the Catholic Church is indeed a very powerful, long-lived, storied, somewhat mysterious, secretive and glitzy organization. He even had to build up to it. But I don't think he has a principled or God-fearing bone in his body, that man. I'd put Lindsay Graham in that category as well. Those two are deeply insecure people who due to their childhood upbringings, were born to be attracted to the schoolyard bullies. Their jobs in life are Attack Dog and Greek Chorus. They're not leaders.

Vance enlisted in the USMC straight out of high school in the middle of the GWOT and at the beginning of OIF. That singular act alone exceeds anything Biden, Pelosi, Romney or Pence have done. That’s before we even get into the actual character of the four role models you reference.

What does that have to do with religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, this is easy. You can tell that some people really live their faiths. Pence, Romney, Biden, Pelosi, etc. Politics doesn't come into it.

Vance? It's clear as day that he's been a vine looking for support all his life. He needs to feel part of something bigger than himself, and the Catholic Church is indeed a very powerful, long-lived, storied, somewhat mysterious, secretive and glitzy organization. He even had to build up to it. But I don't think he has a principled or God-fearing bone in his body, that man. I'd put Lindsay Graham in that category as well. Those two are deeply insecure people who due to their childhood upbringings, were born to be attracted to the schoolyard bullies. Their jobs in life are Attack Dog and Greek Chorus. They're not leaders.

Vance enlisted in the USMC straight out of high school in the middle of the GWOT and at the beginning of OIF. That singular act alone exceeds anything Biden, Pelosi, Romney or Pence have done. That’s before we even get into the actual character of the four role models you reference.

Not at all. Physical courage without moral principles is not admirable in the least. You don't actually think most people enlist to serve God and Country, do you? Actually, it proves my point. He's always sought to belong to what he perceives to be strong, masculine, institutions. Thanks for providing another example!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disturbing. It is not up to us to judge whether or not Vance or Pelosi or Biden or anyone else is a fake Catholic or Protestant or Jew or Mormon or Muslim.

This is matter between God and the individual's conscience.

There are some basic rules to being a Catholic and it's to raise your kids as Catholic and he did not baptize them so no.

This is the rule for couples married in the Catholic church. This did not happen with the Vances, but their marriage is viewed as licit by the church as they were both Catholics. In this circumstance of JD but not Usha converting to Catholicism after marriage, the general rule for baptizing and raising your children as Catholics does not apply.

Rather, the church gives priority to not disrupting the bonds of marriage by creating acrimony between the couple. For example, it may be the case that Usha is adamant that the children make a choice whether to be baptized or not. If she cannot be dissuaded by gentle encouragement, Vance is not obliged to baptize the children against her wishes and, in fact, the church would discourage him from doing so for fear of damage to the marriage.

This is handled as a pastoral matter, where the priest encourages the couple to baptize the children, raise them as Catholics, and see to their catechisis. In the Vance's case, JD takes them to mass (with Usha) and sends them to Catholic schools, which Usha may have accepted. But she may continue to hold out on baptism. That said, I believe the oldest son decided to be baptized when he was seven, so one of the children is baptized.

How do you know all this about him?

I’m a new poster, but anyone with kids in school with the Vances would know about baptism of an older kid. My child in a different Catholic school came home one day with “Larlo and his sister Larla are both getting baptized next weekend” when they were around 7 and 9. I said, “That’s great! I’m really happy for them!” and that was that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disturbing. It is not up to us to judge whether or not Vance or Pelosi or Biden or anyone else is a fake Catholic or Protestant or Jew or Mormon or Muslim.

This is matter between God and the individual's conscience.

There are some basic rules to being a Catholic and it's to raise your kids as Catholic and he did not baptize them so no.

This is the rule for couples married in the Catholic church. This did not happen with the Vances, but their marriage is viewed as licit by the church as they were both Catholics. In this circumstance of JD but not Usha converting to Catholicism after marriage, the general rule for baptizing and raising your children as Catholics does not apply.

Rather, the church gives priority to not disrupting the bonds of marriage by creating acrimony between the couple. For example, it may be the case that Usha is adamant that the children make a choice whether to be baptized or not. If she cannot be dissuaded by gentle encouragement, Vance is not obliged to baptize the children against her wishes and, in fact, the church would discourage him from doing so for fear of damage to the marriage.

This is handled as a pastoral matter, where the priest encourages the couple to baptize the children, raise them as Catholics, and see to their catechisis. In the Vance's case, JD takes them to mass (with Usha) and sends them to Catholic schools, which Usha may have accepted. But she may continue to hold out on baptism. That said, I believe the oldest son decided to be baptized when he was seven, so one of the children is baptized.

How do you know all this about him?

DP, but he lived in this area for years, PP. Some posters knew him directly, and a lot more know him from former friends. Emphasis on *former*. He kind of changed sides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, this is easy. You can tell that some people really live their faiths. Pence, Romney, Biden, Pelosi, etc. Politics doesn't come into it.

Vance? It's clear as day that he's been a vine looking for support all his life. He needs to feel part of something bigger than himself, and the Catholic Church is indeed a very powerful, long-lived, storied, somewhat mysterious, secretive and glitzy organization. He even had to build up to it. But I don't think he has a principled or God-fearing bone in his body, that man. I'd put Lindsay Graham in that category as well. Those two are deeply insecure people who due to their childhood upbringings, were born to be attracted to the schoolyard bullies. Their jobs in life are Attack Dog and Greek Chorus. They're not leaders.

Vance enlisted in the USMC straight out of high school in the middle of the GWOT and at the beginning of OIF. That singular act alone exceeds anything Biden, Pelosi, Romney or Pence have done. That’s before we even get into the actual character of the four role models you reference.

Really? Working in public affairs / media relations and getting educational benefits that changed the trajectory of his life is a “singular act” that exceeds “anything” that several lifelong public servants have done? Lol Interesting values here. It’s probably wise not to bring up “actual character”. When I watched Vance attack Zelenskyy for the benefit of TASS and other media, I saw everything I needed to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disturbing. It is not up to us to judge whether or not Vance or Pelosi or Biden or anyone else is a fake Catholic or Protestant or Jew or Mormon or Muslim.

This is matter between God and the individual's conscience.

There are some basic rules to being a Catholic and it's to raise your kids as Catholic and he did not baptize them so no.

This is the rule for couples married in the Catholic church. This did not happen with the Vances, but their marriage is viewed as licit by the church as they were both Catholics. In this circumstance of JD but not Usha converting to Catholicism after marriage, the general rule for baptizing and raising your children as Catholics does not apply.

Rather, the church gives priority to not disrupting the bonds of marriage by creating acrimony between the couple. For example, it may be the case that Usha is adamant that the children make a choice whether to be baptized or not. If she cannot be dissuaded by gentle encouragement, Vance is not obliged to baptize the children against her wishes and, in fact, the church would discourage him from doing so for fear of damage to the marriage.

This is handled as a pastoral matter, where the priest encourages the couple to baptize the children, raise them as Catholics, and see to their catechisis. In the Vance's case, JD takes them to mass (with Usha) and sends them to Catholic schools, which Usha may have accepted. But she may continue to hold out on baptism. That said, I believe the oldest son decided to be baptized when he was seven, so one of the children is baptized.

How do you know all this about him?

He has publicly talked about going to mass with Usha and the kids and his oldest son's baptism. I learned the kids were at Catholic schools from DCUM.

As for Usha perhaps being in favor of of having the kids have a choice about whether to be baptized or not, that is purely based on inference: She and the kids go to mass and the kids go to Catholic school, so why aren't they baptized? Very likely because it is against her wishes as she feels strongly about people choosing their religion on their own.