s / o on housekeeper question

[Anonymous]

This is going to get me flamed for posting the most inconsequential gripe ever, but it's something that drives me nuts!

I have a housekeeper who I like, personally. She's a kind person, and kind of down on her luck. We started using her when DS was tiny. She subsequently suffered some major health problems, has no health insurance, and told us how much she relies on her cleaning income. We aren't wealthy and hadn't planned to keep her on after DS was small, but at the same time, neither DH or I have the heart to let her go. She's now been with us 3 years and we've given her a 10 / raise twice. She makes a high hourly rate, but we know she has no benefits, etc).

There are a few issues. First, she doesn't like to use our cleaning products and sometimes uses bleach even when we ask her to use vinegar only as a disinfectant (In addition to the environmental concerns, I have a major sensitivity to bleach, triggers asthma and skin problems for me).

Second, we initially hired her to clean our upstairs. For a while, our downstairs was being remodeled so she didn't have to clean that (which she was, originally). We felt bad about cutting her salary so we continued to pay her as though she was cleaning the entire house. When the basement was finished, she never started cleaning it again. DH asked her to and she seemed really annoyed. She does it, but I feel like she's giving it a cursory cleaning at best.

Third issue is really strange. But when she dusts, she takes everything off of all of the shelves. And then she puts the things back in a straight row. She does this for everything. picture frames, plants, candles, vases, knick knacks, you name it. We are pretty minimalist, so there's not that much stuff, but what there is is never how I left it. It's never even close. I guess my question is: is that typical? I feel like it's not that hard to just move things as you dust, and put them right back, or at least try to get them close to how they were.

She also puts EVERYTHING that is out, in the house, into my son's toy boxes, but not necessarily in the same one or the same place or in any logical way. Things that have ended up in my kids' toyboxes or cubbies (and we have a lot of these cubbies): swim goggles, mittens, shoes (mine), our dog's leash, candles, pictures, mail, coasters, an outlet cover, and concert tickets.

I think because we've had some small issues before and ignored them, both because we sympathize with her situation and want to be kind and also because we've never really become comfortable telling a grown woman how to clean our house (it's not that i have problems giving direction; I have employees at the office - I think it is specifically, having a housekeeper in the first place), we have lost perspective here.

Am I out of line for expecting her to comply with our wishes, from the major (no bleach) to the pet peeves (is it just psycho to ask her to stop lining things up or putting weird stuff into the toyboxes?). If not, I wonder what the point of paying someone to clean is if you have to go around and fix and search for everything after.

Our family is not really that messy; a large part of why we keep her on is that we think she needs the income. But, obviously, we also REALLY like when the house is clean. Aside from the issues I've mentioned, the house looks good when she's through.

[Anonymous]

Oh crud. As if that wasn't already way too long, I made a mistake.

We initially hired her to clean our WHOLE house. Later, our downstairs was being renovated and we had her clean upstairs only, but paid her the same price. When she was asked to resume cleaning the whole house, she wasn't happy, and we felt frustrated that instead of appreciating that we'd paid her for work she wasn't doing, she acted almost as if we were asking her to take on new work without more pay.

[Anonymous]

For the big things (no bleach) and actually cleaning the downstairs - yes, these would be dealbreakers. I would talk to her, and let her go if things don't improve. I would let the smaller things go...

[Anonymous]

mmm.... the point of me having a housekeeper is to make my life easier. the dumping stuff into toyboxes would drive me bananas, even though it is "minor."

it doesn't sound like she is going to relent on the bleach issue.

the lining things up: mine does that, too. drives my husband crazy. he feels like she should just put things back where she found them. i think she thinks she's improving our way.

[Anonymous]

My housekeeper used to do the toybox thing too. It made me nuts and I interpreted it as a hostile comment on the fact that we had stuff lying around.

[Anonymous]

Every cleaning person we've ever had (in two different countries!) lined the photos in a row on the shelf. I always figured it was cleaning lady language for "See? I dusted!"

[Anonymous]

I think she should do everything that you ask her to do.

We also have a housecleaner, who we pay hourly. She still sometimes doesn't do things the way I expressly like and I've told her that even if it takes more time (i.e., she gets paid more), that it is fine. I just want it done my way.

Alas, I probably need to get rid of mine as well, but like you keep her on b/c she is a really nice person and trustworthy.

I think OP that we both should sit our housekeepers down and lay out that things need to be done x, y and z way and give them one last chance.

If she still doesn't do it our way, then perhaps it is time to move on.

[Anonymous]

I would think the putting back things in a line -was her attempt at showing you she did take everything off and dust. From what I have heard, this is rare (to actually move things), but if it drives you nuts, you could just tell her to dust around it.

For putting things away, this would bug me, but I thought the ettiquite (may be be the wrong word) is that your house is tidied up before the cleaning person comes. Again, I think most services won't move things, so if you have crap on your floor, it doesn't get vaccuumed (I could be wrong). If it is moved because she is taking everythign off and then putting it back, the solution is to tell her to clean around it.

The bleach thing would be a deal breaker to me.

She may have forgotten she was paid to clean the entire house. I'd be tempted to remind her. But if she isn't cleaning, I would give her notice.

I do think it is OK to sit down with her and "review" what you expect from her.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for reading that way-too-long post and responding! And for not calling me a complete brat for caring about the lining up of things. I think I'm mainly curious if other housekeepers do the same thing and it seems that some do. I really don't like the lining up of things. I have things deliberately arranged, and it makes me go through and rearrange every two weeks, plus we live in fear that if there is anything out (on tables, etc) when she comes to clean, it will end up in toyboxes. She's put cords in there, rubber bands, etc. I think she has to know that's not okay. DS is 3 now, well out of the choking phase, but if we have another one, it will become a real issue - this putting stuff where it doesn't belong. She also does not ever replace any childproofing that she moves (including cabinet locks and outlet covers - which as I mentioned, also go into the toyboxes sometimes!).

I think what I am sort of gearing up to is that we may have to let her go and maybe i'm trying to talk myself out of feeling guilty over it, which probably won't happen. The truth is, we're fully capable of doing the cleaning ourselves, I could use the 300 bucks a month we're paying, and we are frustrated almost every time she comes. But it doesn't change the fact that I know she needs this money. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would think the putting back things in a line -was her attempt at showing you she did take everything off and dust. From what I have heard, this is rare (to actually move things), but if it drives you nuts, you could just tell her to dust around it.

For putting things away, this would bug me, but I thought the ettiquite (may be be the wrong word) is that your house is tidied up before the cleaning person comes. Again, I think most services won't move things, so if you have crap on your floor, it doesn't get vaccuumed (I could be wrong). If it is moved because she is taking everythign off and then putting it back, the solution is to tell her to clean around it.

The bleach thing would be a deal breaker to me.

She may have forgotten she was paid to clean the entire house. I'd be tempted to remind her. But if she isn't cleaning, I would give her notice.

I do think it is OK to sit down with her and "review" what you expect from her.

That's the thing. You are right that the etiquette is to have things put away. I will say that part of this issue may be on us - a pair of shoes left by the door will get put into the kids' toybox and the solution is clear: pick up the shoes and put them where they belong (hello, DH, this means you! ). But, so will a phone charger on the side table. I mean, we're not talking about her having to wade through a crazy mess of toys - those are mainly picked up every night, so absent the odd thing or two our kid is playing with, it's not crazy messy. But anything that IS out, will get put into odd places. And this is anything that's out in any room of the house. So if DS knocked a coaster on the floor and the coaster is behind the couch, say, it will get put into the toybox, not into the stack of coasters 5 feet away from it. So she's just not taking any time to put one or two stray items where they very clearly belong (or, in the case of say a car / wall cell phone charger or something) at least realizing that it does not go into a toy box. I go back and forth between this being a way for her to comment on what she thinks of things lying around and her just not taking time. Either way, even if I'm totally in the wrong and should be scouring the house for stray objects before she comes, that doesn't work for me, it doesn't make my life easier in the way I want to spend 300 bucks to do. As I said, I think I'm trying to convince myself it's okay to cut bait here.

[Anonymous]

OP,

Our housekeeper makes stacks, she will stack everything into neat piles that will include ziploc bags of goldfish, mail, the newspaper, kids craft from school etc. This is just an example, it goes on all over the house and drives me crazy. I have tried to fend this off in a couple ways. I have told her I would like her ideas for becoming more organized and tidy that way she becomes part of the solution. I have also put out a large basket that is empty whenever she comes in, I told her that any item she finds that she does not know what to do with or where it goes to put it in that basket and I will take care of it. I don't know if this will help your problem in the short term because you will probably have a full basket of random shit from all over your house. I also told her I didn't want any kid item of any kind in our bedroom, nothing on a windowsill/mantle if it isn't already there and similar requests. Once I identified where her stacks tended to grow, I tried to knock them off one by one. I also told her I don't expect her to read my mind but I do expect her to work with me to get the house where I would like it to be.

[Anonymous]

This is the OP from the original thread. Obviously I think reasonable requests should be honored, you are paying good money to have a service provided in the way you want so if it's not something you feel like you want to compromise on then you should find someone else.

But this housekeeper and the last do put stuff back on shelves randomly after dusting and not at all how they were before. Be happy she isn't breaking stuff on said shelves - that's why we got rid of the last housekeepers (among other things).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
She also puts EVERYTHING that is out, in the house, into my son's toy boxes, but not necessarily in the same one or the same place or in any logical way. Things that have ended up in my kids' toyboxes or cubbies (and we have a lot of these cubbies): swim goggles, mittens, shoes (mine), our dog's leash, candles, pictures, mail, coasters, an outlet cover, and concert tickets.

Buy one of those rectangular plastic laundry baskets. Ask her to put things that are out of place in the basket somewhere out of reach of DS instead of in the toybox. Then you can just take the basket, walk around and put things away. It should only take a few minutes to put things away each time and you won't have to dig through the toybox to find what is and is not child-safe. I found this worked. The housekeeper put the laundry basket on the floor of the hall closet so that it was out of sight and out of reach of kids and I could get to it sometime after I got home and had a minute. The only problem with "out of sight" is that sometimes I forgot and would find the basket of things in the closet a few days later.

[Anonymous]

Agree with PPs -- provide her with a suitable basket where she can put anything that is not obviously a toy.

And yes, this will become the family junk basket. But at least you'll know where to look for a rubber band or concert tickets.

[Anonymous]

I am sorry but if times were so tough, she would make the effort NOT to use bleach, as her EMPLOYER requested. After all these years, ENOUGH. Let her go. Tell her times are rough with your situation, too. Hire someone who EARNS the money by doing what you ask. Plenty of housekeepers woud lovecte work and do a proper job.