Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The PP just will NOT acknowledge that about half of all hourly workers make less than 15 bucks an hour. That’s not a small number of employees. It’s a huge chunk of the economy. And it’s underpowered. Big businesses have lost sight of the first from the trees. Time to make them understand. We can pay living wages, and have a booming economy. We’ve literally done it before....back in the day when you all thought America was so great.

Over 40% of Americans are salaried. What is your source for half of hourly workers making less than $15? Looks to me like most making that are under 25--and mostly in the 16-19 range Looks like most of them are making around $15.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/24/how-much-money-americans-earn-at-every-age.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say that an employer has a moral obligation to pay his workers a living wage - $7.50 an hour ain't it. Can't pay a living wage? Then you need to do something else.

That may be, but an employer has a higher moral obligation to his family. Furthermore, the employer has a higher moral obligation to repay any debts and to offer his customers a product/service at a competitive price. It's irrational for any employer to overpay his employees beyond the economic value of their labor because such an employer would be violating his higher moral obligation to his family, lenders, and customers.

Greed. Those higher moral obligations you're describing are greed. You're arguing that an employer should prioritize the greed of himself and others over ensuring his employees don't need food stamps to feed themselves.

It is entirely possible for a business owner to 1) pay a living wage 2) pay his bills and 3) offer a competitive price on their product. The fact that you think 1 must be sacrificed in favor of the others is really sad. There are plenty of businesses already making this work.

Again, people in other countries get paid a living wage, and have Healthcare as a basic right. Why do we not think it possible to achieve this for our country? Aren't we supposed to be the greatest country on earth? Or do we still only mean for it to be great for wealthy white people?

Please tell me this country that has a “living wage” minimum that lets 19 year olds afford 2 bedroom apartments, has free health care, and low unemployment, especially youth unemployment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PP just will NOT acknowledge that about half of all hourly workers make less than 15 bucks an hour. That’s not a small number of employees. It’s a huge chunk of the economy. And it’s underpowered. Big businesses have lost sight of the first from the trees. Time to make them understand. We can pay living wages, and have a booming economy. We’ve literally done it before....back in the day when you all thought America was so great.

Over 40% of Americans are salaried. What is your source for half of hourly workers making less than $15? Looks to me like most making that are under 25--and mostly in the 16-19 range Looks like most of them are making around $15.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/24/how-much-money-americans-earn-at-every-age.html

Google it. It’s 42.5% of 60 per event of the workforce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say that an employer has a moral obligation to pay his workers a living wage - $7.50 an hour ain't it. Can't pay a living wage? Then you need to do something else.

That may be, but an employer has a higher moral obligation to his family. Furthermore, the employer has a higher moral obligation to repay any debts and to offer his customers a product/service at a competitive price. It's irrational for any employer to overpay his employees beyond the economic value of their labor because such an employer would be violating his higher moral obligation to his family, lenders, and customers.

Greed. Those higher moral obligations you're describing are greed. You're arguing that an employer should prioritize the greed of himself and others over ensuring his employees don't need food stamps to feed themselves.

It is entirely possible for a business owner to 1) pay a living wage 2) pay his bills and 3) offer a competitive price on their product. The fact that you think 1 must be sacrificed in favor of the others is really sad. There are plenty of businesses already making this work.

Again, people in other countries get paid a living wage, and have Healthcare as a basic right. Why do we not think it possible to achieve this for our country? Aren't we supposed to be the greatest country on earth? Or do we still only mean for it to be great for wealthy white people?

Please tell me this country that has a “living wage” minimum that lets 19 year olds afford 2 bedroom apartments, has free health care, and low unemployment, especially youth unemployment.

Who said anything about 19 year olds affording 2 bedroom apartments? You can't make your point without being ridiculous? Maybe your argument sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PP just will NOT acknowledge that about half of all hourly workers make less than 15 bucks an hour. That’s not a small number of employees. It’s a huge chunk of the economy. And it’s underpowered. Big businesses have lost sight of the first from the trees. Time to make them understand. We can pay living wages, and have a booming economy. We’ve literally done it before....back in the day when you all thought America was so great.

Over 40% of Americans are salaried. What is your source for half of hourly workers making less than $15? Looks to me like most making that are under 25--and mostly in the 16-19 range Looks like most of them are making around $15.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/24/how-much-money-americans-earn-at-every-age.html

Google it. It’s 42.5% of 60 per event of the workforce.

Here are some extra goodies for you to ponder:

Forty-two (42) percent of U.S. workers make less than $15 per hour.
• Women and people of color are overrepresented in jobs paying less than a $15 wage. Female workers account for 54.7 percent of those making less than $15 per hour while making up less than half of the overall U.S. workforce (48.3 percent). African Americans make up about 12 percent of the total workforce,
and they account for 15 percent of the sub-$15-wage workforce. Similarly, Latinos constitute 16.5 percent of the workforce, but account for almost 23 percent of workers making less than $15 per hour.
• More than half of African-American workers and close to 60 percent of Latino workers make less than $15.
• About half (46.4 percent) of workers making less than $15 per hour are ages 35 and older.
• Two states—Arkansas and Mississippi—have median wages of less than $15 per hour. Four other states—Tennessee, Montana, Kentucky, and South Dakota—have $15 median wages.

It’s all right here https://www.nelp.org/wp-content/uploads/Growing-Movement-for-15-Dollars.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The PP just will NOT acknowledge that about half of all hourly workers make less than 15 bucks an hour. That’s not a small number of employees. It’s a huge chunk of the economy. And it’s underpowered. Big businesses have lost sight of the first from the trees. Time to make them understand. We can pay living wages, and have a booming economy. We’ve literally done it before....back in the day when you all thought America was so great.

Over 40% of Americans are salaried. What is your source for half of hourly workers making less than $15? Looks to me like most making that are under 25--and mostly in the 16-19 range Looks like most of them are making around $15.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/24/how-much-money-americans-earn-at-every-age.html

Google it. It’s 42.5% of 60 per event of the workforce.

Here are some extra goodies for you to ponder:

Forty-two (42) percent of U.S. workers make less than $15 per hour.
• Women and people of color are overrepresented in jobs paying less than a $15 wage. Female workers account for 54.7 percent of those making less than $15 per hour while making up less than half of the overall U.S. workforce (48.3 percent). African Americans make up about 12 percent of the total workforce,
and they account for 15 percent of the sub-$15-wage workforce. Similarly, Latinos constitute 16.5 percent of the workforce, but account for almost 23 percent of workers making less than $15 per hour.
• More than half of African-American workers and close to 60 percent of Latino workers make less than $15.
• About half (46.4 percent) of workers making less than $15 per hour are ages 35 and older.
• Two states—Arkansas and Mississippi—have median wages of less than $15 per hour. Four other states—Tennessee, Montana, Kentucky, and South Dakota—have $15 median wages.

It’s all right here https://www.nelp.org/wp-content/uploads/Growing-Movement-for-15-Dollars.pdf

From the same source—

• Front-line, low-wage jobs in these industries
are predominately filled by women. A majority of workers in these occupations—more than 70 percent of front-line workers in fast food, 74 percent in hotel/motel accommodation, and 53 percent in retail—are female.
• Although front-line retail jobs are often seen as jobs held by young people, almost half of workers in these occupations are age 35 or older.

[Anonymous]

From the same source—

• Front-line, low-wage jobs in these industries
are predominately filled by women. A majority of workers in these occupations—more than 70 percent of front-line workers in fast food, 74 percent in hotel/motel accommodation, and 53 percent in retail—are female.
• Although front-line retail jobs are often seen as jobs held by young people, almost half of workers in these occupations are age 35 or older.

Your source is over 6 years old.

[Anonymous]

Again, people in other countries get paid a living wage, and have Healthcare as a basic right. Why do we not think it possible to achieve this for our country? Aren't we supposed to be the greatest country on earth? Or do we still only mean for it to be great for wealthy white people?

This is not true of most countries.

And, in those countries that do, your "living wage" is pretty much all you are going to get. In this country, you have opportunities that you do not have there. For example, you have the opportunity to go to college even if you are a late bloomer. In many European countries, your future career "track" is pretty much determined by how well you do in elementary school.

We are the land of opportunity--that is what has made us great. Why do you think people want to come here? They know that if they work hard, they can improve their lives and even become wealthy. Not guaranteed, of course, but it is possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

From the same source—

• Front-line, low-wage jobs in these industries
are predominately filled by women. A majority of workers in these occupations—more than 70 percent of front-line workers in fast food, 74 percent in hotel/motel accommodation, and 53 percent in retail—are female.
• Although front-line retail jobs are often seen as jobs held by young people, almost half of workers in these occupations are age 35 or older.

Your source is over 6 years old.

It hasn’t gotten better.

[Anonymous]

OP, I know you were asking about inflation (which isn’t really a concern with this) but the impact would be lifting millions of men and women, especially women of color, out of poverty. That is why republicans hate it. Like I said before, they’d rather they die than have them do well for themselves through employment, and definitely rather than provide them with any public benefits. And I don’t say that hyperbolically. Just think about this past year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I know you were asking about inflation (which isn’t really a concern with this) but the impact would be lifting millions of men and women, especially women of color, out of poverty. That is why republicans hate it. Like I said before, they’d rather they die than have them do well for themselves through employment, and definitely rather than provide them with any public benefits. And I don’t say that hyperbolically. Just think about this past year.

Millions? Even best estimate is less than a million--I think it is 900K. Meanwhile, it will put others out of work and deeper into poverty. It will also affect teens who won't be able to gain valuable job skills. And, others who are working part time to supplement income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I know you were asking about inflation (which isn’t really a concern with this) but the impact would be lifting millions of men and women, especially women of color, out of poverty. That is why republicans hate it. Like I said before, they’d rather they die than have them do well for themselves through employment, and definitely rather than provide them with any public benefits. And I don’t say that hyperbolically. Just think about this past year.

Millions? Even best estimate is less than a million--I think it is 900K. Meanwhile, it will put others out of work and deeper into poverty. It will also affect teens who won't be able to gain valuable job skills. And, others who are working part time to supplement income.

No. I meant millions. Because for every person who directly benefits, another or many others will benefit too. Rising tide lifts all ships. I’m sorry but you are wayyyy behind the times. Minimum wage increase is long overdue.

[Anonymous]

No. I meant millions. Because for every person who directly benefits, another or many others will benefit too. Rising tide lifts all ships. I’m sorry but you are wayyyy behind the times. Minimum wage increase is long overdue.

So ,lifting 900K out of poverty while putting millions out of jobs is going to lift all ships? I may be behind the times, but I haven't lost common sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No. I meant millions. Because for every person who directly benefits, another or many others will benefit too. Rising tide lifts all ships. I’m sorry but you are wayyyy behind the times. Minimum wage increase is long overdue.

So ,lifting 900K out of poverty while putting millions out of jobs is going to lift all ships? I may be behind the times, but I haven't lost common sense.

You are not getting it. The predicted job losses don’t exceed the predicted benefits. I’m telling you, you can’t just pay poor people peanuts and expect things to go okay forever. It’s time. Here is a more nuanced look— https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/08/minimum-wage-hike-15-an-hour-by-2025-would-result-14-million-unemployed-nonpartisan-congressional-budget-office-says/

And you won’t need as many jobs if the ones people had were enough to live on...

A lot of low wage workers take more than one job, working more than 40 hours a week to make ends meet. I won’t be sad if they didn’t need that second job anymore and a machine could do it instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd say that an employer has a moral obligation to pay his workers a living wage - $7.50 an hour ain't it. Can't pay a living wage? Then you need to do something else.

That may be, but an employer has a higher moral obligation to his family. Furthermore, the employer has a higher moral obligation to repay any debts and to offer his customers a product/service at a competitive price. It's irrational for any employer to overpay his employees beyond the economic value of their labor because such an employer would be violating his higher moral obligation to his family, lenders, and customers.

If they don't start paying more, there won't be more customers.

Even pre Covid, we stopped going out to eat, I started getting my hair cut professionally at most three times a year.

Pricing efficiency is what drives occupational specialization, which in turn drives productivity, which in turn is why people are usually better off paying for a product service rather than build/make it themselves. To say that labor pricing efficiency leads to reduced consumer buying power is like saying that the healthy root of a tree will cause its leaves to stop growing.

Your anecdotal behavior is irrelevant to everyone other than you.