Help me understand the impact of a $15 minimum wage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let's see how much it would take to just cover food and housing.

The average monthly rental price for a 1 bedroom apartment in the US is $1100.

The average monthly food cost for one person is $165-345.

Using $165 for food that equals $15,200. So $200 short. Of course that doesnt include anything for clothes, electricity, water, or furniture. It also doesnt include transportation or appliances so there's no way to cook the food and you need to live in walking distance to everything.

You can’t use the average apartment and only use the lowest minimum wage, it doesn’t work that way. If you want to say the average apartment in the USA is $1100, then you need to used the average minimum wage which is $11.80 as of 2019.

While the federal minimum wage is $7.25, most states and many cities have higher minimum wages resulting in almost 90% of U.S. minimum wage workers earning more than $7.25. The effective nationwide minimum wage, the wage that the average minimum wage worker earns, is $11.80 as of May 2019.

Based on that, it’s $25960 a year as the average, which can "surprise!" afford your average $1100 apartment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you ask someone to work for you for full time hours, but don't pay them enough to reasonably sustain themselves, you've essentially got yourself an indentured servant. Are we really okay with that as a country? Having an underclass of indentured servants that we allow the merchant class to abuse and treat however they want?

If you offer someone a job and tell them upfront the wage you are willing to pay, and the person says YES to your offer, then you’ve got yourself an employee who has entered into an at-will agreement to work for you at the wage you both agreed upon.

And in most cases, the wage is very clearly indicated in the job posting. The “indentured servant” need not apply to that job of the wage is not suitable to them.

Buddy, you ever been hungry?

I have and I’ve worked the minimum wage jobs when I was. I worked construction jobs that were hard when I was. I did without stuff when I was.

I didn’t bitch that it wasn’t fair and expect someone else to do something about it, it was on me to do it.

And you're fortunate enough to have had the skills and the wherewithal to do so. Not everyone does, and those people still need to eat.

There are many well paying jobs that require 0 skills, but they’re usually harder work, so people just complain instead.

What jobs are those that pay well despite requiring zero skills?

Garbage. Mail. Janitor. Lawn maintenance. Car washer. Bus driver. Taxi cab/Uber driver. Cashier. Maid. Doorman. Bellhop. Delivery person. Warehouse fulfilment. Stock/clerk. I could go on. Yes, there are some basic skills required, but nothing the overwhelming majority of adults could not pick up in a very short period of time.

Okay, say everyone went to these so-called good paying skillless jobs. Whose going to do the minimum wage work? And do those people not deserve to be able to sustain themselves?

The same people that do them now, as the above jobs are out there currently. Anyone making minimum wage Today could get a better job Tomorrow, but they won’t because the work is harder. Some people don’t want to reward them for their decisions, why is that a bad thing?

If you want to be able to sustain yourself but don’t want to put the work in, that’s not my problem.

NOT EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF DOING MORE. What is it about that that you struggle to understand? For some people, getting and keeping a minimum wage job is a significant achievement. For some it's the best they can do. For some, they are unmotivated to do or learn more. ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter. It's not a frickin reward you sick f#ck.

You can have shelter and food on minimum wage. If you’re unmotivated to do more, why do you deserve a wage that covers more than food and shelter? People here think minimum wage needs to cover food, shelter, car, phone, internet, health care, etc.

Why do you keep moving the goalposts?

Not without government assistance. 40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year at minimum wage = $15,000.

Minimum wage is $22k in Maryland, but I’ll play your game. I picked Julian WV at random. Small town, probably a minimum wage type place.

Here is an apartment for $550, and plenty of them in that area. Since WV minimum wage is $8.75 you have $1000 a month left over for food...

https://www.apartments.com/greenbrier-gardens-apartments-charleston-wv/nvr8edq/

Since I know you’ll change to somewhere else, I’ll use your $15k, even though it’s actually $15,950 and pick Roanoke VA

Here’s a place for $500 a month. You have $10k a year left
https://www.apartments.com/3750-williamson-rd-nw-roanoke-va/gftftzy/

Okie doke. In your WV example, you have $1000/month after rent for all of your expenses. How much goes to health insurance and medical expenses? How about clothing? Toiletries?Transportation? How do you save to have the security deposit and first month's rent to qualify for that apartment? How much does it cost to furnish it?

Then after all of that, how much do you actually have left for food?

What happens when you have an unexpected expense? What happens when you get sick and miss work? What about when your hours get cut?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's see how much it would take to just cover food and housing.

The average monthly rental price for a 1 bedroom apartment in the US is $1100.

The average monthly food cost for one person is $165-345.

Using $165 for food that equals $15,200. So $200 short. Of course that doesnt include anything for clothes, electricity, water, or furniture. It also doesnt include transportation or appliances so there's no way to cook the food and you need to live in walking distance to everything.

You can’t use the average apartment and only use the lowest minimum wage, it doesn’t work that way. If you want to say the average apartment in the USA is $1100, then you need to used the average minimum wage which is $11.80 as of 2019.

While the federal minimum wage is $7.25, most states and many cities have higher minimum wages resulting in almost 90% of U.S. minimum wage workers earning more than $7.25. The effective nationwide minimum wage, the wage that the average minimum wage worker earns, is $11.80 as of May 2019.

Based on that, it’s $25960 a year as the average, which can "surprise!" afford your average $1100 apartment.

Been a long time since you've tried to rent an apartment huh? Most of them have minimum income requirements. I promise you most landlords or complexes aren't going to rent a $1100 apartment to someone where that expense is over 50% of their pre-tax income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you ask someone to work for you for full time hours, but don't pay them enough to reasonably sustain themselves, you've essentially got yourself an indentured servant. Are we really okay with that as a country? Having an underclass of indentured servants that we allow the merchant class to abuse and treat however they want?

If you offer someone a job and tell them upfront the wage you are willing to pay, and the person says YES to your offer, then you’ve got yourself an employee who has entered into an at-will agreement to work for you at the wage you both agreed upon.

And in most cases, the wage is very clearly indicated in the job posting. The “indentured servant” need not apply to that job of the wage is not suitable to them.

Buddy, you ever been hungry?

I have and I’ve worked the minimum wage jobs when I was. I worked construction jobs that were hard when I was. I did without stuff when I was.

I didn’t bitch that it wasn’t fair and expect someone else to do something about it, it was on me to do it.

And you're fortunate enough to have had the skills and the wherewithal to do so. Not everyone does, and those people still need to eat.

There are many well paying jobs that require 0 skills, but they’re usually harder work, so people just complain instead.

What jobs are those that pay well despite requiring zero skills?

Garbage. Mail. Janitor. Lawn maintenance. Car washer. Bus driver. Taxi cab/Uber driver. Cashier. Maid. Doorman. Bellhop. Delivery person. Warehouse fulfilment. Stock/clerk. I could go on. Yes, there are some basic skills required, but nothing the overwhelming majority of adults could not pick up in a very short period of time.

Okay, say everyone went to these so-called good paying skillless jobs. Whose going to do the minimum wage work? And do those people not deserve to be able to sustain themselves?

The same people that do them now, as the above jobs are out there currently. Anyone making minimum wage Today could get a better job Tomorrow, but they won’t because the work is harder. Some people don’t want to reward them for their decisions, why is that a bad thing?

If you want to be able to sustain yourself but don’t want to put the work in, that’s not my problem.

NOT EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF DOING MORE. What is it about that that you struggle to understand? For some people, getting and keeping a minimum wage job is a significant achievement. For some it's the best they can do. For some, they are unmotivated to do or learn more. ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter. It's not a frickin reward you sick f#ck.

You can have shelter and food on minimum wage. If you’re unmotivated to do more, why do you deserve a wage that covers more than food and shelter? People here think minimum wage needs to cover food, shelter, car, phone, internet, health care, etc.

Why do you keep moving the goalposts?

Not without government assistance. 40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year at minimum wage = $15,000.

Minimum wage is $22k in Maryland, but I’ll play your game. I picked Julian WV at random. Small town, probably a minimum wage type place.

Here is an apartment for $550, and plenty of them in that area. Since WV minimum wage is $8.75 you have $1000 a month left over for food...

https://www.apartments.com/greenbrier-gardens-apartments-charleston-wv/nvr8edq/

Since I know you’ll change to somewhere else, I’ll use your $15k, even though it’s actually $15,950 and pick Roanoke VA

Here’s a place for $500 a month. You have $10k a year left
https://www.apartments.com/3750-williamson-rd-nw-roanoke-va/gftftzy/

Okie doke. In your WV example, you have $1000/month after rent for all of your expenses. How much goes to health insurance and medical expenses? How about clothing? Toiletries?Transportation? How do you save to have the security deposit and first month's rent to qualify for that apartment? How much does it cost to furnish it?

Then after all of that, how much do you actually have left for food?

What happens when you have an unexpected expense? What happens when you get sick and miss work? What about when your hours get cut?

You asked for food and shelter, when thats pointed out as possible, now you add on a bunch of other stuff. See you move the goalposts to fit what you want to be the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's see how much it would take to just cover food and housing.

The average monthly rental price for a 1 bedroom apartment in the US is $1100.

The average monthly food cost for one person is $165-345.

Using $165 for food that equals $15,200. So $200 short. Of course that doesnt include anything for clothes, electricity, water, or furniture. It also doesnt include transportation or appliances so there's no way to cook the food and you need to live in walking distance to everything.

You can’t use the average apartment and only use the lowest minimum wage, it doesn’t work that way. If you want to say the average apartment in the USA is $1100, then you need to used the average minimum wage which is $11.80 as of 2019.

While the federal minimum wage is $7.25, most states and many cities have higher minimum wages resulting in almost 90% of U.S. minimum wage workers earning more than $7.25. The effective nationwide minimum wage, the wage that the average minimum wage worker earns, is $11.80 as of May 2019.

Based on that, it’s $25960 a year as the average, which can "surprise!" afford your average $1100 apartment.

Been a long time since you've tried to rent an apartment huh? Most of them have minimum income requirements. I promise you most landlords or complexes aren't going to rent a $1100 apartment to someone where that expense is over 50% of their pre-tax income.

Keep changing it when facts prove you wrong. You can make excuses for anything, just like the minimum wage employees have excuses on why it’s not their fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you ask someone to work for you for full time hours, but don't pay them enough to reasonably sustain themselves, you've essentially got yourself an indentured servant. Are we really okay with that as a country? Having an underclass of indentured servants that we allow the merchant class to abuse and treat however they want?

If you offer someone a job and tell them upfront the wage you are willing to pay, and the person says YES to your offer, then you’ve got yourself an employee who has entered into an at-will agreement to work for you at the wage you both agreed upon.

And in most cases, the wage is very clearly indicated in the job posting. The “indentured servant” need not apply to that job of the wage is not suitable to them.

Buddy, you ever been hungry?

I have and I’ve worked the minimum wage jobs when I was. I worked construction jobs that were hard when I was. I did without stuff when I was.

I didn’t bitch that it wasn’t fair and expect someone else to do something about it, it was on me to do it.

And you're fortunate enough to have had the skills and the wherewithal to do so. Not everyone does, and those people still need to eat.

There are many well paying jobs that require 0 skills, but they’re usually harder work, so people just complain instead.

What jobs are those that pay well despite requiring zero skills?

Garbage. Mail. Janitor. Lawn maintenance. Car washer. Bus driver. Taxi cab/Uber driver. Cashier. Maid. Doorman. Bellhop. Delivery person. Warehouse fulfilment. Stock/clerk. I could go on. Yes, there are some basic skills required, but nothing the overwhelming majority of adults could not pick up in a very short period of time.

Okay, say everyone went to these so-called good paying skillless jobs. Whose going to do the minimum wage work? And do those people not deserve to be able to sustain themselves?

The same people that do them now, as the above jobs are out there currently. Anyone making minimum wage Today could get a better job Tomorrow, but they won’t because the work is harder. Some people don’t want to reward them for their decisions, why is that a bad thing?

If you want to be able to sustain yourself but don’t want to put the work in, that’s not my problem.

NOT EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF DOING MORE. What is it about that that you struggle to understand? For some people, getting and keeping a minimum wage job is a significant achievement. For some it's the best they can do. For some, they are unmotivated to do or learn more. ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter. It's not a frickin reward you sick f#ck.

You can have shelter and food on minimum wage. If you’re unmotivated to do more, why do you deserve a wage that covers more than food and shelter? People here think minimum wage needs to cover food, shelter, car, phone, internet, health care, etc.

Why do you keep moving the goalposts?

Not without government assistance. 40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year at minimum wage = $15,000.

Minimum wage is $22k in Maryland, but I’ll play your game. I picked Julian WV at random. Small town, probably a minimum wage type place.

Here is an apartment for $550, and plenty of them in that area. Since WV minimum wage is $8.75 you have $1000 a month left over for food...

https://www.apartments.com/greenbrier-gardens-apartments-charleston-wv/nvr8edq/

Since I know you’ll change to somewhere else, I’ll use your $15k, even though it’s actually $15,950 and pick Roanoke VA

Here’s a place for $500 a month. You have $10k a year left
https://www.apartments.com/3750-williamson-rd-nw-roanoke-va/gftftzy/

Okie doke. In your WV example, you have $1000/month after rent for all of your expenses. How much goes to health insurance and medical expenses? How about clothing? Toiletries?Transportation? How do you save to have the security deposit and first month's rent to qualify for that apartment? How much does it cost to furnish it?

Then after all of that, how much do you actually have left for food?

What happens when you have an unexpected expense? What happens when you get sick and miss work? What about when your hours get cut?

You asked for food and shelter, when thats pointed out as possible, now you add on a bunch of other stuff. See you move the goalposts to fit what you want to be the truth.

The goalposts has ALWAYS been sustenance. That includes what it costs to live, and you and I both know that inudes more than just an apartment and food.

In reality, people have to get to work. They have to pay for utilities. They have to wear clothing. They get sick.

The TRUTH is that minimum wage is not enough to realistically sustain yourself, unless you expect them to sit shivering in an empty apartment eating rice and beans and doing nothing but working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's see how much it would take to just cover food and housing.

The average monthly rental price for a 1 bedroom apartment in the US is $1100.

The average monthly food cost for one person is $165-345.

Using $165 for food that equals $15,200. So $200 short. Of course that doesnt include anything for clothes, electricity, water, or furniture. It also doesnt include transportation or appliances so there's no way to cook the food and you need to live in walking distance to everything.

You can’t use the average apartment and only use the lowest minimum wage, it doesn’t work that way. If you want to say the average apartment in the USA is $1100, then you need to used the average minimum wage which is $11.80 as of 2019.

While the federal minimum wage is $7.25, most states and many cities have higher minimum wages resulting in almost 90% of U.S. minimum wage workers earning more than $7.25. The effective nationwide minimum wage, the wage that the average minimum wage worker earns, is $11.80 as of May 2019.

Based on that, it’s $25960 a year as the average, which can "surprise!" afford your average $1100 apartment.

Been a long time since you've tried to rent an apartment huh? Most of them have minimum income requirements. I promise you most landlords or complexes aren't going to rent a $1100 apartment to someone where that expense is over 50% of their pre-tax income.

Keep changing it when facts prove you wrong. You can make excuses for anything, just like the minimum wage employees have excuses on why it’s not their fault.

Omg lol. So I showed you you're wrong, but instead of admit that, I'm still somehow wrong because you want to live in a fantasy land? You can't rent an apartment that costs more than half your pretax income. That's just reality. Most landlords aren't going to take the risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you ask someone to work for you for full time hours, but don't pay them enough to reasonably sustain themselves, you've essentially got yourself an indentured servant. Are we really okay with that as a country? Having an underclass of indentured servants that we allow the merchant class to abuse and treat however they want?

If you offer someone a job and tell them upfront the wage you are willing to pay, and the person says YES to your offer, then you’ve got yourself an employee who has entered into an at-will agreement to work for you at the wage you both agreed upon.

And in most cases, the wage is very clearly indicated in the job posting. The “indentured servant” need not apply to that job of the wage is not suitable to them.

Buddy, you ever been hungry?

I have and I’ve worked the minimum wage jobs when I was. I worked construction jobs that were hard when I was. I did without stuff when I was.

I didn’t bitch that it wasn’t fair and expect someone else to do something about it, it was on me to do it.

And you're fortunate enough to have had the skills and the wherewithal to do so. Not everyone does, and those people still need to eat.

There are many well paying jobs that require 0 skills, but they’re usually harder work, so people just complain instead.

What jobs are those that pay well despite requiring zero skills?

Garbage. Mail. Janitor. Lawn maintenance. Car washer. Bus driver. Taxi cab/Uber driver. Cashier. Maid. Doorman. Bellhop. Delivery person. Warehouse fulfilment. Stock/clerk. I could go on. Yes, there are some basic skills required, but nothing the overwhelming majority of adults could not pick up in a very short period of time.

Okay, say everyone went to these so-called good paying skillless jobs. Whose going to do the minimum wage work? And do those people not deserve to be able to sustain themselves?

The same people that do them now, as the above jobs are out there currently. Anyone making minimum wage Today could get a better job Tomorrow, but they won’t because the work is harder. Some people don’t want to reward them for their decisions, why is that a bad thing?

If you want to be able to sustain yourself but don’t want to put the work in, that’s not my problem.

NOT EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF DOING MORE. What is it about that that you struggle to understand? For some people, getting and keeping a minimum wage job is a significant achievement. For some it's the best they can do. For some, they are unmotivated to do or learn more. ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter. It's not a frickin reward you sick f#ck.

You can have shelter and food on minimum wage. If you’re unmotivated to do more, why do you deserve a wage that covers more than food and shelter? People here think minimum wage needs to cover food, shelter, car, phone, internet, health care, etc.

Why do you keep moving the goalposts?

Not without government assistance. 40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year at minimum wage = $15,000.

Minimum wage is $22k in Maryland, but I’ll play your game. I picked Julian WV at random. Small town, probably a minimum wage type place.

Here is an apartment for $550, and plenty of them in that area. Since WV minimum wage is $8.75 you have $1000 a month left over for food...

https://www.apartments.com/greenbrier-gardens-apartments-charleston-wv/nvr8edq/

Since I know you’ll change to somewhere else, I’ll use your $15k, even though it’s actually $15,950 and pick Roanoke VA

Here’s a place for $500 a month. You have $10k a year left
https://www.apartments.com/3750-williamson-rd-nw-roanoke-va/gftftzy/

Okie doke. In your WV example, you have $1000/month after rent for all of your expenses. How much goes to health insurance and medical expenses? How about clothing? Toiletries?Transportation? How do you save to have the security deposit and first month's rent to qualify for that apartment? How much does it cost to furnish it?

Then after all of that, how much do you actually have left for food?

What happens when you have an unexpected expense? What happens when you get sick and miss work? What about when your hours get cut?

You asked for food and shelter, when thats pointed out as possible, now you add on a bunch of other stuff. See you move the goalposts to fit what you want to be the truth.

But you're agreeing that government standards should be tied to cost of living?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you ask someone to work for you for full time hours, but don't pay them enough to reasonably sustain themselves, you've essentially got yourself an indentured servant. Are we really okay with that as a country? Having an underclass of indentured servants that we allow the merchant class to abuse and treat however they want?

If you offer someone a job and tell them upfront the wage you are willing to pay, and the person says YES to your offer, then you’ve got yourself an employee who has entered into an at-will agreement to work for you at the wage you both agreed upon.

And in most cases, the wage is very clearly indicated in the job posting. The “indentured servant” need not apply to that job of the wage is not suitable to them.

Buddy, you ever been hungry?

I have and I’ve worked the minimum wage jobs when I was. I worked construction jobs that were hard when I was. I did without stuff when I was.

I didn’t bitch that it wasn’t fair and expect someone else to do something about it, it was on me to do it.

And you're fortunate enough to have had the skills and the wherewithal to do so. Not everyone does, and those people still need to eat.

There are many well paying jobs that require 0 skills, but they’re usually harder work, so people just complain instead.

What jobs are those that pay well despite requiring zero skills?

Garbage. Mail. Janitor. Lawn maintenance. Car washer. Bus driver. Taxi cab/Uber driver. Cashier. Maid. Doorman. Bellhop. Delivery person. Warehouse fulfilment. Stock/clerk. I could go on. Yes, there are some basic skills required, but nothing the overwhelming majority of adults could not pick up in a very short period of time.

Okay, say everyone went to these so-called good paying skillless jobs. Whose going to do the minimum wage work? And do those people not deserve to be able to sustain themselves?

The same people that do them now, as the above jobs are out there currently. Anyone making minimum wage Today could get a better job Tomorrow, but they won’t because the work is harder. Some people don’t want to reward them for their decisions, why is that a bad thing?

If you want to be able to sustain yourself but don’t want to put the work in, that’s not my problem.

NOT EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF DOING MORE. What is it about that that you struggle to understand? For some people, getting and keeping a minimum wage job is a significant achievement. For some it's the best they can do. For some, they are unmotivated to do or learn more. ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter. It's not a frickin reward you sick f#ck.

You can have shelter and food on minimum wage. If you’re unmotivated to do more, why do you deserve a wage that covers more than food and shelter? People here think minimum wage needs to cover food, shelter, car, phone, internet, health care, etc.

Why do you keep moving the goalposts?

Not without government assistance. 40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year at minimum wage = $15,000.

Minimum wage is $22k in Maryland, but I’ll play your game. I picked Julian WV at random. Small town, probably a minimum wage type place.

Here is an apartment for $550, and plenty of them in that area. Since WV minimum wage is $8.75 you have $1000 a month left over for food...

https://www.apartments.com/greenbrier-gardens-apartments-charleston-wv/nvr8edq/

Since I know you’ll change to somewhere else, I’ll use your $15k, even though it’s actually $15,950 and pick Roanoke VA

Here’s a place for $500 a month. You have $10k a year left
https://www.apartments.com/3750-williamson-rd-nw-roanoke-va/gftftzy/

Okie doke. In your WV example, you have $1000/month after rent for all of your expenses. How much goes to health insurance and medical expenses? How about clothing? Toiletries?Transportation? How do you save to have the security deposit and first month's rent to qualify for that apartment? How much does it cost to furnish it?

Then after all of that, how much do you actually have left for food?

What happens when you have an unexpected expense? What happens when you get sick and miss work? What about when your hours get cut?

You asked for food and shelter, when thats pointed out as possible, now you add on a bunch of other stuff. See you move the goalposts to fit what you want to be the truth.

The goalposts has ALWAYS been sustenance. That includes what it costs to live, and you and I both know that inudes more than just an apartment and food.

In reality, people have to get to work. They have to pay for utilities. They have to wear clothing. They get sick.

The TRUTH is that minimum wage is not enough to realistically sustain yourself, unless you expect them to sit shivering in an empty apartment eating rice and beans and doing nothing but working.

Read what you quoted instead of just quoting it. Someone said

ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter.

I said you can, they bolded it and said you can’t. I showed them how, now you’re saying it was always more than food and shelter. The statement was you can’t have food and shelter on minimum wage. That is proven wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's see how much it would take to just cover food and housing.

The average monthly rental price for a 1 bedroom apartment in the US is $1100.

The average monthly food cost for one person is $165-345.

Using $165 for food that equals $15,200. So $200 short. Of course that doesnt include anything for clothes, electricity, water, or furniture. It also doesnt include transportation or appliances so there's no way to cook the food and you need to live in walking distance to everything.

You can’t use the average apartment and only use the lowest minimum wage, it doesn’t work that way. If you want to say the average apartment in the USA is $1100, then you need to used the average minimum wage which is $11.80 as of 2019.

While the federal minimum wage is $7.25, most states and many cities have higher minimum wages resulting in almost 90% of U.S. minimum wage workers earning more than $7.25. The effective nationwide minimum wage, the wage that the average minimum wage worker earns, is $11.80 as of May 2019.

Based on that, it’s $25960 a year as the average, which can "surprise!" afford your average $1100 apartment.

Been a long time since you've tried to rent an apartment huh? Most of them have minimum income requirements. I promise you most landlords or complexes aren't going to rent a $1100 apartment to someone where that expense is over 50% of their pre-tax income.

Keep changing it when facts prove you wrong. You can make excuses for anything, just like the minimum wage employees have excuses on why it’s not their fault.

Omg lol. So I showed you you're wrong, but instead of admit that, I'm still somehow wrong because you want to live in a fantasy land? You can't rent an apartment that costs more than half your pretax income. That's just reality. Most landlords aren't going to take the risk.

Both of the ones linked will rent to low income. Try again.

[Anonymous]

Only about 2% of wage earners make minimum wage. Very likely, they do not live in the high expense areas. And, remember, that 2$ does not include salaried workers--so only about 1% of workers make minimum wage, and many of them are teens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Only about 2% of wage earners make minimum wage. Very likely, they do not live in the high expense areas. And, remember, that 2$ does not include salaried workers--so only about 1% of workers make minimum wage, and many of them are teens.

But 42% of all hourly workers make less than $15.

So, be about 2/3 of all workers are hourly, about 1/3 of all workers make less than $15 ! Only around 20% are under 25 by the way.

We’ve talked about all of this before.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If you ask someone to work for you for full time hours, but don't pay them enough to reasonably sustain themselves, you've essentially got yourself an indentured servant. Are we really okay with that as a country? Having an underclass of indentured servants that we allow the merchant class to abuse and treat however they want?

If you offer someone a job and tell them upfront the wage you are willing to pay, and the person says YES to your offer, then you’ve got yourself an employee who has entered into an at-will agreement to work for you at the wage you both agreed upon.

And in most cases, the wage is very clearly indicated in the job posting. The “indentured servant” need not apply to that job of the wage is not suitable to them.

Buddy, you ever been hungry?

I have and I’ve worked the minimum wage jobs when I was. I worked construction jobs that were hard when I was. I did without stuff when I was.

I didn’t bitch that it wasn’t fair and expect someone else to do something about it, it was on me to do it.

And you're fortunate enough to have had the skills and the wherewithal to do so. Not everyone does, and those people still need to eat.

There are many well paying jobs that require 0 skills, but they’re usually harder work, so people just complain instead.

What jobs are those that pay well despite requiring zero skills?

Garbage. Mail. Janitor. Lawn maintenance. Car washer. Bus driver. Taxi cab/Uber driver. Cashier. Maid. Doorman. Bellhop. Delivery person. Warehouse fulfilment. Stock/clerk. I could go on. Yes, there are some basic skills required, but nothing the overwhelming majority of adults could not pick up in a very short period of time.

Okay, say everyone went to these so-called good paying skillless jobs. Whose going to do the minimum wage work? And do those people not deserve to be able to sustain themselves?

The same people that do them now, as the above jobs are out there currently. Anyone making minimum wage Today could get a better job Tomorrow, but they won’t because the work is harder. Some people don’t want to reward them for their decisions, why is that a bad thing?

If you want to be able to sustain yourself but don’t want to put the work in, that’s not my problem.

NOT EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF DOING MORE. What is it about that that you struggle to understand? For some people, getting and keeping a minimum wage job is a significant achievement. For some it's the best they can do. For some, they are unmotivated to do or learn more. ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter. It's not a frickin reward you sick f#ck.

You can have shelter and food on minimum wage. If you’re unmotivated to do more, why do you deserve a wage that covers more than food and shelter? People here think minimum wage needs to cover food, shelter, car, phone, internet, health care, etc.

Why do you keep moving the goalposts?

Not without government assistance. 40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year at minimum wage = $15,000.

Minimum wage is $22k in Maryland, but I’ll play your game. I picked Julian WV at random. Small town, probably a minimum wage type place.

Here is an apartment for $550, and plenty of them in that area. Since WV minimum wage is $8.75 you have $1000 a month left over for food...

https://www.apartments.com/greenbrier-gardens-apartments-charleston-wv/nvr8edq/

Since I know you’ll change to somewhere else, I’ll use your $15k, even though it’s actually $15,950 and pick Roanoke VA

Here’s a place for $500 a month. You have $10k a year left
https://www.apartments.com/3750-williamson-rd-nw-roanoke-va/gftftzy/

Okie doke. In your WV example, you have $1000/month after rent for all of your expenses. How much goes to health insurance and medical expenses? How about clothing? Toiletries?Transportation? How do you save to have the security deposit and first month's rent to qualify for that apartment? How much does it cost to furnish it?

Then after all of that, how much do you actually have left for food?

What happens when you have an unexpected expense? What happens when you get sick and miss work? What about when your hours get cut?

You asked for food and shelter, when thats pointed out as possible, now you add on a bunch of other stuff. See you move the goalposts to fit what you want to be the truth.

The goalposts has ALWAYS been sustenance. That includes what it costs to live, and you and I both know that inudes more than just an apartment and food.

In reality, people have to get to work. They have to pay for utilities. They have to wear clothing. They get sick.

The TRUTH is that minimum wage is not enough to realistically sustain yourself, unless you expect them to sit shivering in an empty apartment eating rice and beans and doing nothing but working.

Read what you quoted instead of just quoting it. Someone said

ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter.

I said you can, they bolded it and said you can’t. I showed them how, now you’re saying it was always more than food and shelter. The statement was you can’t have food and shelter on minimum wage. That is proven wrong.

So you're being deliberately obtuse. What good does rent and shelter ALONE do you, when you know very well living costs more than that. Do you want to have a substantive discussion or do you want to play semantic games?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you ask someone to work for you for full time hours, but don't pay them enough to reasonably sustain themselves, you've essentially got yourself an indentured servant. Are we really okay with that as a country? Having an underclass of indentured servants that we allow the merchant class to abuse and treat however they want?

If you offer someone a job and tell them upfront the wage you are willing to pay, and the person says YES to your offer, then you’ve got yourself an employee who has entered into an at-will agreement to work for you at the wage you both agreed upon.

And in most cases, the wage is very clearly indicated in the job posting. The “indentured servant” need not apply to that job of the wage is not suitable to them.

Buddy, you ever been hungry?

I have and I’ve worked the minimum wage jobs when I was. I worked construction jobs that were hard when I was. I did without stuff when I was.

I didn’t bitch that it wasn’t fair and expect someone else to do something about it, it was on me to do it.

And you're fortunate enough to have had the skills and the wherewithal to do so. Not everyone does, and those people still need to eat.

There are many well paying jobs that require 0 skills, but they’re usually harder work, so people just complain instead.

What jobs are those that pay well despite requiring zero skills?

Garbage. Mail. Janitor. Lawn maintenance. Car washer. Bus driver. Taxi cab/Uber driver. Cashier. Maid. Doorman. Bellhop. Delivery person. Warehouse fulfilment. Stock/clerk. I could go on. Yes, there are some basic skills required, but nothing the overwhelming majority of adults could not pick up in a very short period of time.

Okay, say everyone went to these so-called good paying skillless jobs. Whose going to do the minimum wage work? And do those people not deserve to be able to sustain themselves?

The same people that do them now, as the above jobs are out there currently. Anyone making minimum wage Today could get a better job Tomorrow, but they won’t because the work is harder. Some people don’t want to reward them for their decisions, why is that a bad thing?

If you want to be able to sustain yourself but don’t want to put the work in, that’s not my problem.

NOT EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF DOING MORE. What is it about that that you struggle to understand? For some people, getting and keeping a minimum wage job is a significant achievement. For some it's the best they can do. For some, they are unmotivated to do or learn more. ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter. It's not a frickin reward you sick f#ck.

You can have shelter and food on minimum wage. If you’re unmotivated to do more, why do you deserve a wage that covers more than food and shelter? People here think minimum wage needs to cover food, shelter, car, phone, internet, health care, etc.

Why do you keep moving the goalposts?

Not without government assistance. 40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year at minimum wage = $15,000.

Minimum wage is $22k in Maryland, but I’ll play your game. I picked Julian WV at random. Small town, probably a minimum wage type place.

Here is an apartment for $550, and plenty of them in that area. Since WV minimum wage is $8.75 you have $1000 a month left over for food...

https://www.apartments.com/greenbrier-gardens-apartments-charleston-wv/nvr8edq/

Since I know you’ll change to somewhere else, I’ll use your $15k, even though it’s actually $15,950 and pick Roanoke VA

Here’s a place for $500 a month. You have $10k a year left
https://www.apartments.com/3750-williamson-rd-nw-roanoke-va/gftftzy/

Okie doke. In your WV example, you have $1000/month after rent for all of your expenses. How much goes to health insurance and medical expenses? How about clothing? Toiletries?Transportation? How do you save to have the security deposit and first month's rent to qualify for that apartment? How much does it cost to furnish it?

Then after all of that, how much do you actually have left for food?

What happens when you have an unexpected expense? What happens when you get sick and miss work? What about when your hours get cut?

You asked for food and shelter, when thats pointed out as possible, now you add on a bunch of other stuff. See you move the goalposts to fit what you want to be the truth.

The goalposts has ALWAYS been sustenance. That includes what it costs to live, and you and I both know that inudes more than just an apartment and food.

In reality, people have to get to work. They have to pay for utilities. They have to wear clothing. They get sick.

The TRUTH is that minimum wage is not enough to realistically sustain yourself, unless you expect them to sit shivering in an empty apartment eating rice and beans and doing nothing but working.

Read what you quoted instead of just quoting it. Someone said

ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter.

I said you can, they bolded it and said you can’t. I showed them how, now you’re saying it was always more than food and shelter. The statement was you can’t have food and shelter on minimum wage. That is proven wrong.

So you're being deliberately obtuse. What good does rent and shelter ALONE do you, when you know very well living costs more than that. Do you want to have a substantive discussion or do you want to play semantic games?

If you don’t want to better yourself, min9mum wage is what you get. As discussed here minimum wage is enough to get you a minimum lifestyle and was not designed to do anything more.

I believe the USA is a great place where everyone has the opportunity to better themselves, you don’t believe that, and that’s ok, but if you don’t want to better yourself, that’s on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you ask someone to work for you for full time hours, but don't pay them enough to reasonably sustain themselves, you've essentially got yourself an indentured servant. Are we really okay with that as a country? Having an underclass of indentured servants that we allow the merchant class to abuse and treat however they want?

If you offer someone a job and tell them upfront the wage you are willing to pay, and the person says YES to your offer, then you’ve got yourself an employee who has entered into an at-will agreement to work for you at the wage you both agreed upon.

And in most cases, the wage is very clearly indicated in the job posting. The “indentured servant” need not apply to that job of the wage is not suitable to them.

Buddy, you ever been hungry?

I have and I’ve worked the minimum wage jobs when I was. I worked construction jobs that were hard when I was. I did without stuff when I was.

I didn’t bitch that it wasn’t fair and expect someone else to do something about it, it was on me to do it.

And you're fortunate enough to have had the skills and the wherewithal to do so. Not everyone does, and those people still need to eat.

There are many well paying jobs that require 0 skills, but they’re usually harder work, so people just complain instead.

What jobs are those that pay well despite requiring zero skills?

Garbage. Mail. Janitor. Lawn maintenance. Car washer. Bus driver. Taxi cab/Uber driver. Cashier. Maid. Doorman. Bellhop. Delivery person. Warehouse fulfilment. Stock/clerk. I could go on. Yes, there are some basic skills required, but nothing the overwhelming majority of adults could not pick up in a very short period of time.

Okay, say everyone went to these so-called good paying skillless jobs. Whose going to do the minimum wage work? And do those people not deserve to be able to sustain themselves?

The same people that do them now, as the above jobs are out there currently. Anyone making minimum wage Today could get a better job Tomorrow, but they won’t because the work is harder. Some people don’t want to reward them for their decisions, why is that a bad thing?

If you want to be able to sustain yourself but don’t want to put the work in, that’s not my problem.

NOT EVERYONE IS CAPABLE OF DOING MORE. What is it about that that you struggle to understand? For some people, getting and keeping a minimum wage job is a significant achievement. For some it's the best they can do. For some, they are unmotivated to do or learn more. ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter. It's not a frickin reward you sick f#ck.

You can have shelter and food on minimum wage. If you’re unmotivated to do more, why do you deserve a wage that covers more than food and shelter? People here think minimum wage needs to cover food, shelter, car, phone, internet, health care, etc.

Why do you keep moving the goalposts?

Not without government assistance. 40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year at minimum wage = $15,000.

Minimum wage is $22k in Maryland, but I’ll play your game. I picked Julian WV at random. Small town, probably a minimum wage type place.

Here is an apartment for $550, and plenty of them in that area. Since WV minimum wage is $8.75 you have $1000 a month left over for food...

https://www.apartments.com/greenbrier-gardens-apartments-charleston-wv/nvr8edq/

Since I know you’ll change to somewhere else, I’ll use your $15k, even though it’s actually $15,950 and pick Roanoke VA

Here’s a place for $500 a month. You have $10k a year left
https://www.apartments.com/3750-williamson-rd-nw-roanoke-va/gftftzy/

Okie doke. In your WV example, you have $1000/month after rent for all of your expenses. How much goes to health insurance and medical expenses? How about clothing? Toiletries?Transportation? How do you save to have the security deposit and first month's rent to qualify for that apartment? How much does it cost to furnish it?

Then after all of that, how much do you actually have left for food?

What happens when you have an unexpected expense? What happens when you get sick and miss work? What about when your hours get cut?

You asked for food and shelter, when thats pointed out as possible, now you add on a bunch of other stuff. See you move the goalposts to fit what you want to be the truth.

The goalposts has ALWAYS been sustenance. That includes what it costs to live, and you and I both know that inudes more than just an apartment and food.

In reality, people have to get to work. They have to pay for utilities. They have to wear clothing. They get sick.

The TRUTH is that minimum wage is not enough to realistically sustain yourself, unless you expect them to sit shivering in an empty apartment eating rice and beans and doing nothing but working.

Read what you quoted instead of just quoting it. Someone said

ALL of those people still deserve to eat and have shelter.

I said you can, they bolded it and said you can’t. I showed them how, now you’re saying it was always more than food and shelter. The statement was you can’t have food and shelter on minimum wage. That is proven wrong.

So you're being deliberately obtuse. What good does rent and shelter ALONE do you, when you know very well living costs more than that. Do you want to have a substantive discussion or do you want to play semantic games?

If you don’t want to better yourself, min9mum wage is what you get. As discussed here minimum wage is enough to get you a minimum lifestyle and was not designed to do anything more.

I believe the USA is a great place where everyone has the opportunity to better themselves, you don’t believe that, and that’s ok, but if you don’t want to better yourself, that’s on you.

Ok, let's nacceot this agreement that at the bare minimum the minimum wage shouod be set ar a level that allows one to have shelter and food. Can we expand that to electricity, water and cutlery as well? Can we agree that it should be indexed to inflation and cost of living?