Atheists/agnostics, why did you become atheist/agnostic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny enough, I had spent years studying theology and decided to delve deeper into more general and traditional philosophies in order to place my beliefs more firmly in the context of a wider scaffolding. My intention was to strengthen my faith. Eventually I had an aha moment in relation to faith and why so many religions prioritize it over knowledge. It was unexpected, and kind of rocked my world. I didn’t go looking for it, but there it was. I called myself agnostic for a while but eventually stopped kidding myself and acknowledged that I was an atheist.

Wait, tell us what your revelation was!

It’s obviously more complex than this, but for me it boiled down to faith is frequently used as a gaslighting or coercion tool. The importance of faith can’t be overstated in many religions, and why is that? It’s a patch that covers the weakest parts of religious doctrine, so the leaders and architects of that doctrine convince people that very bad things will happen to them if they mess with it. Why would a benevolent god give us brains that allow us to reason away points of faith, yet condemn us to hell if we do that?

So there’s that, plus the realization that most of the authors of the narratives that made it into the Bible and other religious texts had agendas. Dig into their angles and what they were trying to achieve, and it can be difficult to view them as divinely inspired.

Of course, but is the agenda/purpose of religion always a negative? Rules to live by in community with then end goal being love and peace? I believe many people genuinely need a religious structure to survive in this world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny enough, I had spent years studying theology and decided to delve deeper into more general and traditional philosophies in order to place my beliefs more firmly in the context of a wider scaffolding. My intention was to strengthen my faith. Eventually I had an aha moment in relation to faith and why so many religions prioritize it over knowledge. It was unexpected, and kind of rocked my world. I didn’t go looking for it, but there it was. I called myself agnostic for a while but eventually stopped kidding myself and acknowledged that I was an atheist.

Wait, tell us what your revelation was!

It’s obviously more complex than this, but for me it boiled down to faith is frequently used as a gaslighting or coercion tool. The importance of faith can’t be overstated in many religions, and why is that? It’s a patch that covers the weakest parts of religious doctrine, so the leaders and architects of that doctrine convince people that very bad things will happen to them if they mess with it. Why would a benevolent god give us brains that allow us to reason away points of faith, yet condemn us to hell if we do that?

So there’s that, plus the realization that most of the authors of the narratives that made it into the Bible and other religious texts had agendas. Dig into their angles and what they were trying to achieve, and it can be difficult to view them as divinely inspired.

Of course, but is the agenda/purpose of religion always a negative? Rules to live by in community with then end goal being love and peace? I believe many people genuinely need a religious structure to survive in this world.

We need a structure, yes, but it needn't be a religious structure. For instance Democracy with freedom of religion is a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One major reason why I don't believe in God is because there is so much suffering in the world, some uncaused by people. I have trouble believing that a loving god would create or allow that suffering.

I wish that a kind god existed and am open to changing my mind.

What suffering in the world is uncaused by people?

Examples: cancer (not caused by lifestyle choices), infectious disease that people didn't knowingly spread, natural disasters.

Natural disasters are caused by man made climate change.

In today’s world, as with Covid, we can prevent infectious disease. We have vaccines, masks, etc. People who will not follow CDC and medical and hygienic protocols and guidelines are at fault for the spread.

Lifestyle factors implicated as causes of cancer and cancer mortality, which are considered as main targets for prevention, include smoking, alcohol consumption, obesity, diet, and physical inactivity. Those things can even cause a person’s DNA to change.

PP said cancer NOT caused by lifestyle choices.

Also, there have always been natural disasters - e.g., earthquakes and floods, that harm people who live in their path

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If God causes natural disasters and cancer, is he also responsible for the good things in the world like the sun rising every day? And newborn kittens and puppies? And rainbows and and gentle rain?

When a person is cured of cancer or disease, is that God’s work?

Basically, God sucks if he can make life all rainbows and puppies and instead makes child rapists and tsunamis land mines.

So basically humans are perfect and God makes us rape kids and blow
each other up against our will? And natural science and the environment and biology isn’t a thing. He controls everything; but is either evil or doesn’t exist.

No, but if there really was a perfect and omnipotent god, which is what I was raised to believe, he wouldn't have made such an imperfect world where there is so much suffering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny enough, I had spent years studying theology and decided to delve deeper into more general and traditional philosophies in order to place my beliefs more firmly in the context of a wider scaffolding. My intention was to strengthen my faith. Eventually I had an aha moment in relation to faith and why so many religions prioritize it over knowledge. It was unexpected, and kind of rocked my world. I didn’t go looking for it, but there it was. I called myself agnostic for a while but eventually stopped kidding myself and acknowledged that I was an atheist.

Wait, tell us what your revelation was!

It’s obviously more complex than this, but for me it boiled down to faith is frequently used as a gaslighting or coercion tool. The importance of faith can’t be overstated in many religions, and why is that? It’s a patch that covers the weakest parts of religious doctrine, so the leaders and architects of that doctrine convince people that very bad things will happen to them if they mess with it. Why would a benevolent god give us brains that allow us to reason away points of faith, yet condemn us to hell if we do that?

So there’s that, plus the realization that most of the authors of the narratives that made it into the Bible and other religious texts had agendas. Dig into their angles and what they were trying to achieve, and it can be difficult to view them as divinely inspired.

Of course, but is the agenda/purpose of religion always a negative? Rules to live by in community with then end goal being love and peace? I believe many people genuinely need a religious structure to survive in this world.

Maybe that is the end goal of some religious people, but that's not the end goal of religion.

But I agree there are many weak people who need someone to threaten them with "hell" in order for them to do the right thing.

[Anonymous]

There isn’t really a “why,” I just grew out of it the same way I grew out of believing in Santa Claus. 🤷‍♀️

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If God causes natural disasters and cancer, is he also responsible for the good things in the world like the sun rising every day? And newborn kittens and puppies? And rainbows and and gentle rain?

When a person is cured of cancer or disease, is that God’s work?

Uh - the sun comes up because of the earth's rotation.

Sex/reproduction is responsible for puppies and kittens. They look cute so adults will take care of them. Millions of years of evolution here...

Rain caused by excess moisture in clouds.

Rainbows are caused by light refraction.

Medical treatments developed by humans "cure" cancer and disease.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One major reason why I don't believe in God is because there is so much suffering in the world, some uncaused by people. I have trouble believing that a loving god would create or allow that suffering.

I wish that a kind god existed and am open to changing my mind.

What suffering in the world is uncaused by people?

Examples: cancer (not caused by lifestyle choices), infectious disease that people didn't knowingly spread, natural disasters.

Natural disasters are caused by man made climate change.

In today’s world, as with Covid, we can prevent infectious disease. We have vaccines, masks, etc. People who will not follow CDC and medical and hygienic protocols and guidelines are at fault for the spread.

Lifestyle factors implicated as causes of cancer and cancer mortality, which are considered as main targets for prevention, include smoking, alcohol consumption, obesity, diet, and physical inactivity. Those things can even cause a person’s DNA to change.

You obviously have never worked in patient care for dying children or those born with painful deformities and physical abnormalities, or babies born with chromosomal defects that cause them to suffocate and die shortly after birth.

And before you start yammering on about pregnant mothers causing these issues, you'll have to then answer about animals with major defects--are those because of animals that drink too much alcohol?

Also, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions are not caused by humans, but have caused untold suffering over the millennia. Pompeii? Krakatoa? 1755 Lisbon earthquake? Who doesn't know this? Go read some Voltaire.

P.S. are you seriously suggesting that children with cancer had lifestyle factors that caused their illness? You are either really gross, or just completely ignorant. Go make a donation to St. Jude hospital for penance.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t “become” an atheist, I just never believed.
I was raised an Orthodox Jew and from as early as I can remember, thought it was all nonsense. When I was about six, I apparently piped up at Shabbat dinner “what if Jesus really was the messiah and you’re all waiting around for nothing?”
I mostly kept my mouth shut though, and when I moved away from home for college, just very naturally and without planning or thinking about it, ate pork, didn’t observe Shabbat or any holidays, dated non Jews, and generally lived a life completely absent of religion.
I have a great relationship with my family and my former rabbi and still feel that Orthodox Judaism is the only legitimate way to practice. But I do not, nor do I believe in god. My father is an atheist too but finds comfort and community in his religious observance.

[Anonymous]

Hypocrisy and deception in so many of the religious people and institutions all around me. Then ultimately a realization that the God I was raised to believe in was a delusion of humankind meant to address unanswerable questions. Life is hella more painful without that emotional crutch, but also hella more authentic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn’t “become” an atheist, I just never believed.
I was raised an Orthodox Jew and from as early as I can remember, thought it was all nonsense. When I was about six, I apparently piped up at Shabbat dinner “what if Jesus really was the messiah and you’re all waiting around for nothing?”
I mostly kept my mouth shut though, and when I moved away from home for college, just very naturally and without planning or thinking about it, ate pork, didn’t observe Shabbat or any holidays, dated non Jews, and generally lived a life completely absent of religion.
I have a great relationship with my family and my former rabbi and still feel that Orthodox Judaism is the only legitimate way to practice. But I do not, nor do I believe in god. My father is an atheist too but finds comfort and community in his religious observance.

I've heard of other people like this, who, regardless of being raised in a religion (any religion), it never "took" and they stopped their involvement as soon as they could.

[Anonymous]

I feel like atheist/agnostic is the default and the burden of proof rightly rests on the person or people who are asserting the existence and impact of supernatural/divine forces.

I think faith in the supernatural is a quirk of human evolution that we've used to bind ourselves into larger tribal identity groups ... and it's been pretty successful at that ... but the claims of religions that assert the supernatural don't hold up to close examination.

I was raised Catholic, tried evangelical etc ... and for many years really tried to give faith a good try, willing it to happen etc .. but in the end when I stopped 'pressing,' it just wasn't there ... which actually works just fine.

In the end (at least for me), admitting the presence of big existential questions actually brings more inner peace than all the cognitive dissonance of lying to yourself ... but I understand that doesn't work for everyone and don't begrudge people of faith pursuing what works for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like atheist/agnostic is the default and the burden of proof rightly rests on the person or people who are asserting the existence and impact of supernatural/divine forces.

I think faith in the supernatural is a quirk of human evolution that we've used to bind ourselves into larger tribal identity groups ... and it's been pretty successful at that ... but the claims of religions that assert the supernatural don't hold up to close examination.

I was raised Catholic, tried evangelical etc ... and for many years really tried to give faith a good try, willing it to happen etc .. but in the end when I stopped 'pressing,' it just wasn't there ... which actually works just fine.

In the end (at least for me), admitting the presence of big existential questions actually brings more inner peace than all the cognitive dissonance of lying to yourself ... but I understand that doesn't work for everyone and don't begrudge people of faith pursuing what works for them.

Lovely, Thanks. I've heard about people like you who "try" to believe and it just doesn't work. I look forward to the day when people are not expected to believe, or forced to believe, and when "people of faith" are not considered superior because they are able to believe in the supernatural.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like atheist/agnostic is the default and the burden of proof rightly rests on the person or people who are asserting the existence and impact of supernatural/divine forces.

I think faith in the supernatural is a quirk of human evolution that we've used to bind ourselves into larger tribal identity groups ... and it's been pretty successful at that ... but the claims of religions that assert the supernatural don't hold up to close examination.

I was raised Catholic, tried evangelical etc ... and for many years really tried to give faith a good try, willing it to happen etc .. but in the end when I stopped 'pressing,' it just wasn't there ... which actually works just fine.

In the end (at least for me), admitting the presence of big existential questions actually brings more inner peace than all the cognitive dissonance of lying to yourself ... but I understand that doesn't work for everyone and don't begrudge people of faith pursuing what works for them.

Lovely, Thanks. I've heard about people like you who "try" to believe and it just doesn't work. I look forward to the day when people are not expected to believe, or forced to believe, and when "people of faith" are not considered superior because they are able to believe in the supernatural.

Christians do not think they are superior to anyone else. We are all the same. Sinners in need of the redemptive blood of Christ. Every person is created in God’s image and has the same sinful nature, and no one is better than the next person.

No one is forced to believe any religion in America.

WHAT IS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM EXACTLY?

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that everyone in the United States has the right to practice his or her own religion, or no religion at all.

The Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment gives you the right to worship or not as you choose. The government can't penalize you because of your religious beliefs.

IS IT EVER OK TO PRAY IN SCHOOL?

Sure. Individual students have the right to pray whenever they want to, as long as they don't disrupt classroom instruction or other educational activities -- or try to force others to pray along with them. If a school official has told you that you can't pray at all during the school day, your right to exercise your religion is being violated. Contact your local ACLU for help.

Student-organized Bible clubs are OK as long as three conditions are met:

(1) the activity must take place during non-school hours; (2) school officials can't be involved in organizing or running the club, and (3) the school must make its facilities available to all student groups on an equal basis. So your Bible club couldn't be the only group allowed access to the school grounds. Neither could your school let other student groups use the building for meetings and events and deny your Bible club the same opportunity.

https://www.aclu.org/other/your-right-religious-freedom

Again, anti- theism is different from atheism. Atheism is a personal choice to not believe in a God, gods, or practice any religious beliefs or worship any deity.

Anti- theism is an opposition to theism.

Dystheism is a belief in a deity that is not benevolent, and an opposition to gods or God.

Misotheism is a hatred of God.

Christopher Hitchens offers an example of this approach in Letters to a Young Contrarian (2001), in which he writes: "I'm not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful.

Other definitions of antitheism include that of the French Catholic philosopher Jacques Maritain (1953), for whom it is "an active struggle against everything that reminds us of God.”

Anti-theism is incompatible with our freedom of religion and our values as Americans.


Some See Extreme 'Anti-Theism' As Motive In N.C. Killings

Outrage over the murder of three young Muslim Americans in North Carolina last week has gone international. The Organization of Islamic Cooperation said Saturday that the killings reflected "Islamophobia" and "bear the symptoms of a hate crime," but local authorities say they don't yet know what motivated the murders.

The man held responsible for the killings is an avowed atheist. Whether that's relevant in this case is not clear, but some experts see a new extremism developing among some atheists.

On his Facebook page, Craig Hicks, the alleged gunman, criticized all religions. His wife said he had nothing against Muslims in particular, but Hicks described himself as a gun-toting atheist.

Religion scholar Reza Aslan says ordinary atheists just don't believe in God. Hicks, Aslan says, was an anti-theist.

Antitheism is primarily an attitude of aggressive hostility toward religion and, by extension, religious people and ideas. Unfortunately, antitheism tends to express itself in negative ways, with arrogance, derision, or outright bigotry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like atheist/agnostic is the default and the burden of proof rightly rests on the person or people who are asserting the existence and impact of supernatural/divine forces.

I think faith in the supernatural is a quirk of human evolution that we've used to bind ourselves into larger tribal identity groups ... and it's been pretty successful at that ... but the claims of religions that assert the supernatural don't hold up to close examination.

I was raised Catholic, tried evangelical etc ... and for many years really tried to give faith a good try, willing it to happen etc .. but in the end when I stopped 'pressing,' it just wasn't there ... which actually works just fine.

In the end (at least for me), admitting the presence of big existential questions actually brings more inner peace than all the cognitive dissonance of lying to yourself ... but I understand that doesn't work for everyone and don't begrudge people of faith pursuing what works for them.

Lovely, Thanks. I've heard about people like you who "try" to believe and it just doesn't work. I look forward to the day when people are not expected to believe, or forced to believe, and when "people of faith" are not considered superior because they are able to believe in the supernatural.

Christians do not think they are superior to anyone else. We are all the same. Sinners in need of the redemptive blood of Christ. Every person is created in God’s image and has the same sinful nature, and no one is better than the next person.

No one is forced to believe any religion in America.

WHAT IS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM EXACTLY?

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says that everyone in the United States has the right to practice his or her own religion, or no religion at all.

The Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment gives you the right to worship or not as you choose. The government can't penalize you because of your religious beliefs.

IS IT EVER OK TO PRAY IN SCHOOL?

Sure. Individual students have the right to pray whenever they want to, as long as they don't disrupt classroom instruction or other educational activities -- or try to force others to pray along with them. If a school official has told you that you can't pray at all during the school day, your right to exercise your religion is being violated. Contact your local ACLU for help.

Student-organized Bible clubs are OK as long as three conditions are met:

(1) the activity must take place during non-school hours; (2) school officials can't be involved in organizing or running the club, and (3) the school must make its facilities available to all student groups on an equal basis. So your Bible club couldn't be the only group allowed access to the school grounds. Neither could your school let other student groups use the building for meetings and events and deny your Bible club the same opportunity.

https://www.aclu.org/other/your-right-religious-freedom

Again, anti- theism is different from atheism. Atheism is a personal choice to not believe in a God, gods, or practice any religious beliefs or worship any deity.

Anti- theism is an opposition to theism.

Dystheism is a belief in a deity that is not benevolent, and an opposition to gods or God.

Misotheism is a hatred of God.

Christopher Hitchens offers an example of this approach in Letters to a Young Contrarian (2001), in which he writes: "I'm not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful.

Other definitions of antitheism include that of the French Catholic philosopher Jacques Maritain (1953), for whom it is "an active struggle against everything that reminds us of God.”

Anti-theism is incompatible with our freedom of religion and our values as Americans.


Some See Extreme 'Anti-Theism' As Motive In N.C. Killings

Outrage over the murder of three young Muslim Americans in North Carolina last week has gone international. The Organization of Islamic Cooperation said Saturday that the killings reflected "Islamophobia" and "bear the symptoms of a hate crime," but local authorities say they don't yet know what motivated the murders.

The man held responsible for the killings is an avowed atheist. Whether that's relevant in this case is not clear, but some experts see a new extremism developing among some atheists.

On his Facebook page, Craig Hicks, the alleged gunman, criticized all religions. His wife said he had nothing against Muslims in particular, but Hicks described himself as a gun-toting atheist.

Religion scholar Reza Aslan says ordinary atheists just don't believe in God. Hicks, Aslan says, was an anti-theist.

Antitheism is primarily an attitude of aggressive hostility toward religion and, by extension, religious people and ideas. Unfortunately, antitheism tends to express itself in negative ways, with arrogance, derision, or outright bigotry.

https://www.npr.org/2015/02/15/386406810/some-see-extreme-anti-theism-as-motive-in-n-c-killings

(Link to news article quoted)