Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that *the stereotypes* of wealthy wealthy Jews and WASPS are similar. Note: I am not talking individuals, just the types.
Yes education is important to both but the personality types couldn't be more diametrically opposed: frank, candid, direct, loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food. Again, stereotypes... but they are pretty much diametrically opposed.
I grew up in New England among both communities and the WASP culture was a strong presence in my high school and even college, but much more so among friends' parents and grandparents. I don't see it as much anymore. For one thing prep schools and Ivies are no longer WASP bastions so pretty much everaything is different. Are there still pockets of exclusivity and is there still a certain style? Yes, but it is disappearing. In my opinion this is mostly a good thing, but also too bad in certain ways.
Gee, this doesn't sound biased at all 🤔 I guess I could fire back some fairly rude assessments of Jews and start praising WASPs but I have a feeling that wouldn't be allowed. Although I agree with you the groups are NOT similar in the slightest.
Go for it! I think those stereotypes are right on, especially about the food. Go to a wealthy WASPy wedding and a wealthy Jewish one. Compare the food and get back to me. Yes, the WASPy wedding will be beautiful and have amazing flowers and decor, but for some reason, they are going to scrimp on the food. The Jews will leave the flowers out, if need be, but not the food.
Also, the big elephant in the room difference was left out: Jews are far less likely than WASPs to have an alcohol problem.
Your turn…
Alrighty... since you've asked me to... grasping strivers, loud, new money, ostentatious, pushy/mannerless, cliquey/not welcoming to outsiders, horrible food (gefilte fish?! WTF), trashy, etc.
I will say that as much as you say people dont like WASP weddings, many people pay big bucks to get married in "WASPy" locations with a "WASP" style (which is kind of derived from English style). Not many people getting married in chuppahs despite being Filipino, IJS.
Anyway... each group can have their own judgements of their others.
The initial comment that you took offense to called Jews “frank,” “direct” and “loud.” Those were polite euphemisms. But I suppose that it makes you feel classier to spell it out “grasping strivers” and “trashy?”
I said point blank that WASPy weddings are aesthetically beautiful. It’s just that I make a point of eating before I go to one. With a Jewish wedding, I get a workout in first. Don’t even get me started on the lavishness that is an Indian wedding…but I digress. Also, practically every wedding I’ve gone to in the last decade has the bride being given away by both of her parents per Jewish tradition.
I’m not sure why you’re so offended by the descriptions of WASPs. I don’t see them to be very mean at all.
Yes, they called Jews "frank, direct, and loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food." Clearly biased, as my previous comment said and whoever replied (you?) said you'd like to hear my honest assessment and that WASPs also have alcohol problems. So a second ago you wanted people to "go for it" and be honest but now that someone was you're offended?
I don’t think the initial comment by a different poster is biased at all. I think it’s very accurate on all counts. I’m also not remotely offended by your comment.
I think you’re quite funny. Why? Because while championing their cause, you don’t come across as politely WASPy in the least, nor do you have the coolheaded WASPy demeanor, the kind that built this country. Nope, instead you are seem to be deeply offended by WASPs being called “discreet” and “reserved,” which is not only not inoffensive but, also very true. Keep it coming! And please don’t tell me you’re a bot, I’ll be disappointed.
I'm glad you're not offended. And thanks for proving my point that your stereotypes about WASPs, the WASPs you THINK you know and are so pleased to have figured out, are completely wrong. Maybe they are "cold" and "reserved" with YOU and that's for a reason. I guarantee the conversations are different in private, when youre not around. That's the politest way I can say it. Have a good one.
I am a first generation immigrant but from a wealthy family. I went to prep school on the East Coast. Believe me I know a lot of WASPs and I can tell that you are not a real one. Are you the same poster who is upset about the “exclusive” definition that doesn’t include Midwestern people of German and Scandinavian?
You obviously don't know a thing. Keep believing that Gossip Girl or some Danielle Steel novel is a real depiction of WASPs. How would you even know, since it's not your culture? The delusion and sheer lack of self awareness is pretty comical. And no, I'm from the east coast, and know EXACTLY what a WASP is, and that you aren't one and will never be us or be able to understand us. Keep trying, though.
So, you have to be a member of a distinct subset of a culture to recognize it? Are you both Jewish and WASPy? I ask because you seem to have very strong views on both groups and their characteristics.
You can't be Jewish and a WASP, those are mutually exclusive terms. But you really have to be a member of any group to definitively give a statement of any authority about it. Of course, outsiders can give their own opinions/stereotypes, but only the insiders know how it really works.
What are you talking about? Shirley Jackson was as WASPy as they got, she married a Jew. They had children. Their children were both. Kyra Sedgwick is both. Come to think of it, I can think of a ton of famous people who are…
If they're Jewish theyre not WASP and vice versa. What is hard to understand?
Is this like a one drop rule or something? The second a Wasp marries a Jew their children are suddenly stripped of both their cultures and heritages? Let’s take Kyra Sedgwick, so example. Per Wikipedia, her ancestor, William Ellery, signed the Declaration of Independence, her other ancestor was an editor for Atlantic Monthly. The Sedgwick family has its own Wikipedia page because they are so prominent in American History. They are very definition of Boston Brahmins.
BUT suddenly, when her dad made children with her Jewish mom, he’s lost all ability to pass on his culture and heritage? And her mom, too, now has lost all ability to transfer her culture onto her kids? They are nothing at all?
Your nuttiness is making sense. Maybe you’re just extremely inbred….
Well, I mean, it's a subculture but there's some pretty broad bare minimum rules spelled out in the name for God's sake. And Jews don't fit into a certain one. Like... it's literally in the name, lmao. Get over it.
I’m none of the above. I just think you’re crazy.
Correct... you're none of the above. I'm glad you've accepted what I'm saying.
I haven’t accepted any of what you are saying because it’s completely ludicrous. It does matter if she fits the strict definition of a WASP, surely, Kyra Sedgwick is familiar with the culture and attitudes of the people in her own family. To say that she doesn’t understand the culture of her own father is ridiculous.
I will disengage at this point because realize that I am dealing with a mentally ill person on an anonymous board. Arguing with you about who can understand the characteristics of WASP culture is like picking on a resident at a nursing home.
It actually does matter if she fits the definition of a WASP. You wouldn't understand that because you're admittedly not even apart of either group, so I'm not sure why you're so invested? Maybe focusing on literally anything else that might be even tangentially related to your actual life instead of two groups that you will never and can never belong to. You'll never understand... and frankly, you're not supposed to. Take care.
I'm white anglo saxon and Episcopalian. My mom's family was one of the First Families of Virginia and my dad's great great grandfather was an Earl. I don't consider myself a WASP because I'm a lot of other stuff in there too and the first time I went to Bar Harbor was age 27. True WASPs are an endangered species.
Yes, but per this poster’s view, not only are you not a WASP, you are incapable of recognizing what they are because you must be one to be able to identify one. The same appears to be true for Jews.
Why does this upset you? Not everyone gets to be apart of every group. That's a problem why exactly? The other poster doesn't seem to care either way. What's the point of terms if they have no meaning?
I’m not at all upset about not being a part of a group, especially one I don’t identify with at all. I’m annoyed at the inane notion that I cannot recognize members of the group because I am not part of it. I’m not Italian American either, but I can tell when someone else is, often just by looking at them. I fail to see why I must be a WASP to be able to tell that someone else is one. It’s about being able to make basic observations and nothing else. But here some crazy person is claiming that WASPs are or so elusive in nature that you must be one to know one. That’s lame to say the least.
Oh my god this is going to be good. Please tell me how you know someone is Italian American by looking at them. Be precise.
They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses. But seriously, you need clues on this? What’s next? Confusion about how to identify African Americans?
Are you Indian? I feel like you must be Indian.
NP
I haven't posted on this thread nor read much more than this last page but why do posters always post this "you must be Indian" quip to demean someone? You should examine your racist values. I'm not even Indian but it's bugs the hell out of me.
The only people I know who would say something as blatantly racist and offensive as "They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses" are Indian.
What’s blatantly racist and offensive with saying someone looks Jewish? Julia Margolies and Debra Messing both look very Jewish and they are both beautiful. Adam Sandler, too.
If you take offense to someone saying another person looks Jewish, you are the one with the problem.
Because it's impossible to "look Jewish", because Jewish people come in a variety of looks. What you are actually describing is a stereotype. Just like my stereotype that Indians are racist.
I’m not Indian, fyi. Your racism is so obnoxiously fake unaware that I know you must be an “open minded” progressive. Yes, you can look Jewish and Italian and Indian and Chinese and English, etc. DNA tests will even break it down as to how much of each ancestry anyone has. It’s biological.
Why are these differences and variations to humanity so offensive to you?
Different poster. I literally can’t believe you said Italians look like Jewish people with crosses. It is so offensive for so many reasons. But it is also so offensive because it’s just wrong. There is no similarity in the way either “stereotype” looks. You are so provincial, it’s scary. I’m guessing you have never spent any time on the East Coast, especially NYC where there are lots of Jewish and Italian people. Not to mention my 100% Italian (parents off the boat) MIL with blond hair and blue eyes would like a word.
Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that *the stereotypes* of wealthy wealthy Jews and WASPS are similar. Note: I am not talking individuals, just the types.
Yes education is important to both but the personality types couldn't be more diametrically opposed: frank, candid, direct, loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food. Again, stereotypes... but they are pretty much diametrically opposed.
I grew up in New England among both communities and the WASP culture was a strong presence in my high school and even college, but much more so among friends' parents and grandparents. I don't see it as much anymore. For one thing prep schools and Ivies are no longer WASP bastions so pretty much everaything is different. Are there still pockets of exclusivity and is there still a certain style? Yes, but it is disappearing. In my opinion this is mostly a good thing, but also too bad in certain ways.
Gee, this doesn't sound biased at all 🤔 I guess I could fire back some fairly rude assessments of Jews and start praising WASPs but I have a feeling that wouldn't be allowed. Although I agree with you the groups are NOT similar in the slightest.
Go for it! I think those stereotypes are right on, especially about the food. Go to a wealthy WASPy wedding and a wealthy Jewish one. Compare the food and get back to me. Yes, the WASPy wedding will be beautiful and have amazing flowers and decor, but for some reason, they are going to scrimp on the food. The Jews will leave the flowers out, if need be, but not the food.
Also, the big elephant in the room difference was left out: Jews are far less likely than WASPs to have an alcohol problem.
Your turn…
Alrighty... since you've asked me to... grasping strivers, loud, new money, ostentatious, pushy/mannerless, cliquey/not welcoming to outsiders, horrible food (gefilte fish?! WTF), trashy, etc.
I will say that as much as you say people dont like WASP weddings, many people pay big bucks to get married in "WASPy" locations with a "WASP" style (which is kind of derived from English style). Not many people getting married in chuppahs despite being Filipino, IJS.
Anyway... each group can have their own judgements of their others.
The initial comment that you took offense to called Jews “frank,” “direct” and “loud.” Those were polite euphemisms. But I suppose that it makes you feel classier to spell it out “grasping strivers” and “trashy?”
I said point blank that WASPy weddings are aesthetically beautiful. It’s just that I make a point of eating before I go to one. With a Jewish wedding, I get a workout in first. Don’t even get me started on the lavishness that is an Indian wedding…but I digress. Also, practically every wedding I’ve gone to in the last decade has the bride being given away by both of her parents per Jewish tradition.
I’m not sure why you’re so offended by the descriptions of WASPs. I don’t see them to be very mean at all.
Yes, they called Jews "frank, direct, and loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food." Clearly biased, as my previous comment said and whoever replied (you?) said you'd like to hear my honest assessment and that WASPs also have alcohol problems. So a second ago you wanted people to "go for it" and be honest but now that someone was you're offended?
I don’t think the initial comment by a different poster is biased at all. I think it’s very accurate on all counts. I’m also not remotely offended by your comment.
I think you’re quite funny. Why? Because while championing their cause, you don’t come across as politely WASPy in the least, nor do you have the coolheaded WASPy demeanor, the kind that built this country. Nope, instead you are seem to be deeply offended by WASPs being called “discreet” and “reserved,” which is not only not inoffensive but, also very true. Keep it coming! And please don’t tell me you’re a bot, I’ll be disappointed.
I'm glad you're not offended. And thanks for proving my point that your stereotypes about WASPs, the WASPs you THINK you know and are so pleased to have figured out, are completely wrong. Maybe they are "cold" and "reserved" with YOU and that's for a reason. I guarantee the conversations are different in private, when youre not around. That's the politest way I can say it. Have a good one.
I am a first generation immigrant but from a wealthy family. I went to prep school on the East Coast. Believe me I know a lot of WASPs and I can tell that you are not a real one. Are you the same poster who is upset about the “exclusive” definition that doesn’t include Midwestern people of German and Scandinavian?
You obviously don't know a thing. Keep believing that Gossip Girl or some Danielle Steel novel is a real depiction of WASPs. How would you even know, since it's not your culture? The delusion and sheer lack of self awareness is pretty comical. And no, I'm from the east coast, and know EXACTLY what a WASP is, and that you aren't one and will never be us or be able to understand us. Keep trying, though.
So, you have to be a member of a distinct subset of a culture to recognize it? Are you both Jewish and WASPy? I ask because you seem to have very strong views on both groups and their characteristics.
You can't be Jewish and a WASP, those are mutually exclusive terms. But you really have to be a member of any group to definitively give a statement of any authority about it. Of course, outsiders can give their own opinions/stereotypes, but only the insiders know how it really works.
What are you talking about? Shirley Jackson was as WASPy as they got, she married a Jew. They had children. Their children were both. Kyra Sedgwick is both. Come to think of it, I can think of a ton of famous people who are…
If they're Jewish theyre not WASP and vice versa. What is hard to understand?
Is this like a one drop rule or something? The second a Wasp marries a Jew their children are suddenly stripped of both their cultures and heritages? Let’s take Kyra Sedgwick, so example. Per Wikipedia, her ancestor, William Ellery, signed the Declaration of Independence, her other ancestor was an editor for Atlantic Monthly. The Sedgwick family has its own Wikipedia page because they are so prominent in American History. They are very definition of Boston Brahmins.
BUT suddenly, when her dad made children with her Jewish mom, he’s lost all ability to pass on his culture and heritage? And her mom, too, now has lost all ability to transfer her culture onto her kids? They are nothing at all?
Your nuttiness is making sense. Maybe you’re just extremely inbred….
Well, I mean, it's a subculture but there's some pretty broad bare minimum rules spelled out in the name for God's sake. And Jews don't fit into a certain one. Like... it's literally in the name, lmao. Get over it.
I’m none of the above. I just think you’re crazy.
Correct... you're none of the above. I'm glad you've accepted what I'm saying.
I haven’t accepted any of what you are saying because it’s completely ludicrous. It does matter if she fits the strict definition of a WASP, surely, Kyra Sedgwick is familiar with the culture and attitudes of the people in her own family. To say that she doesn’t understand the culture of her own father is ridiculous.
I will disengage at this point because realize that I am dealing with a mentally ill person on an anonymous board. Arguing with you about who can understand the characteristics of WASP culture is like picking on a resident at a nursing home.
It actually does matter if she fits the definition of a WASP. You wouldn't understand that because you're admittedly not even apart of either group, so I'm not sure why you're so invested? Maybe focusing on literally anything else that might be even tangentially related to your actual life instead of two groups that you will never and can never belong to. You'll never understand... and frankly, you're not supposed to. Take care.
I'm white anglo saxon and Episcopalian. My mom's family was one of the First Families of Virginia and my dad's great great grandfather was an Earl. I don't consider myself a WASP because I'm a lot of other stuff in there too and the first time I went to Bar Harbor was age 27. True WASPs are an endangered species.
Yes, but per this poster’s view, not only are you not a WASP, you are incapable of recognizing what they are because you must be one to be able to identify one. The same appears to be true for Jews.
Why does this upset you? Not everyone gets to be apart of every group. That's a problem why exactly? The other poster doesn't seem to care either way. What's the point of terms if they have no meaning?
I’m not at all upset about not being a part of a group, especially one I don’t identify with at all. I’m annoyed at the inane notion that I cannot recognize members of the group because I am not part of it. I’m not Italian American either, but I can tell when someone else is, often just by looking at them. I fail to see why I must be a WASP to be able to tell that someone else is one. It’s about being able to make basic observations and nothing else. But here some crazy person is claiming that WASPs are or so elusive in nature that you must be one to know one. That’s lame to say the least.
Oh my god this is going to be good. Please tell me how you know someone is Italian American by looking at them. Be precise.
They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses. But seriously, you need clues on this? What’s next? Confusion about how to identify African Americans?
Are you Indian? I feel like you must be Indian.
NP
I haven't posted on this thread nor read much more than this last page but why do posters always post this "you must be Indian" quip to demean someone? You should examine your racist values. I'm not even Indian but it's bugs the hell out of me.
The only people I know who would say something as blatantly racist and offensive as "They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses" are Indian.
What’s blatantly racist and offensive with saying someone looks Jewish? Julia Margolies and Debra Messing both look very Jewish and they are both beautiful. Adam Sandler, too.
If you take offense to someone saying another person looks Jewish, you are the one with the problem.
Because it's impossible to "look Jewish", because Jewish people come in a variety of looks. What you are actually describing is a stereotype. Just like my stereotype that Indians are racist.
I’m not Indian, fyi. Your racism is so obnoxiously fake unaware that I know you must be an “open minded” progressive. Yes, you can look Jewish and Italian and Indian and Chinese and English, etc. DNA tests will even break it down as to how much of each ancestry anyone has. It’s biological.
Why are these differences and variations to humanity so offensive to you?
Different poster. I literally can’t believe you said Italians look like Jewish people with crosses. It is so offensive for so many reasons. But it is also so offensive because it’s just wrong. There is no similarity in the way either “stereotype” looks. You are so provincial, it’s scary. I’m guessing you have never spent any time on the East Coast, especially NYC where there are lots of Jewish and Italian people. Not to mention my 100% Italian (parents off the boat) MIL with blond hair and blue eyes would like a word.
Ciao bambina, not only did I live in NY for ten years, I lived in Milan for two. You have to be blind not to see that Italians and Ashkenazi Jews look a helluva lot a like. Why do you think James Caan played in the Godfather? Or that the actresses who played Sophia and Dorothy on Golden Girls were Jewish? Casting agents thought they were interchangeable in Hollywood because they look alike.
The funny thing is Jews are never offended when you mistake them for an a Italian, but boy do Italians crack a nut if you make the mistake of thinking they’re Jewish. It’s remarkably funny, kinda like the German Americans insisting they are WASPs.
Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that *the stereotypes* of wealthy wealthy Jews and WASPS are similar. Note: I am not talking individuals, just the types.
Yes education is important to both but the personality types couldn't be more diametrically opposed: frank, candid, direct, loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food. Again, stereotypes... but they are pretty much diametrically opposed.
I grew up in New England among both communities and the WASP culture was a strong presence in my high school and even college, but much more so among friends' parents and grandparents. I don't see it as much anymore. For one thing prep schools and Ivies are no longer WASP bastions so pretty much everaything is different. Are there still pockets of exclusivity and is there still a certain style? Yes, but it is disappearing. In my opinion this is mostly a good thing, but also too bad in certain ways.
Gee, this doesn't sound biased at all 🤔 I guess I could fire back some fairly rude assessments of Jews and start praising WASPs but I have a feeling that wouldn't be allowed. Although I agree with you the groups are NOT similar in the slightest.
Go for it! I think those stereotypes are right on, especially about the food. Go to a wealthy WASPy wedding and a wealthy Jewish one. Compare the food and get back to me. Yes, the WASPy wedding will be beautiful and have amazing flowers and decor, but for some reason, they are going to scrimp on the food. The Jews will leave the flowers out, if need be, but not the food.
Also, the big elephant in the room difference was left out: Jews are far less likely than WASPs to have an alcohol problem.
Your turn…
Alrighty... since you've asked me to... grasping strivers, loud, new money, ostentatious, pushy/mannerless, cliquey/not welcoming to outsiders, horrible food (gefilte fish?! WTF), trashy, etc.
I will say that as much as you say people dont like WASP weddings, many people pay big bucks to get married in "WASPy" locations with a "WASP" style (which is kind of derived from English style). Not many people getting married in chuppahs despite being Filipino, IJS.
Anyway... each group can have their own judgements of their others.
The initial comment that you took offense to called Jews “frank,” “direct” and “loud.” Those were polite euphemisms. But I suppose that it makes you feel classier to spell it out “grasping strivers” and “trashy?”
I said point blank that WASPy weddings are aesthetically beautiful. It’s just that I make a point of eating before I go to one. With a Jewish wedding, I get a workout in first. Don’t even get me started on the lavishness that is an Indian wedding…but I digress. Also, practically every wedding I’ve gone to in the last decade has the bride being given away by both of her parents per Jewish tradition.
I’m not sure why you’re so offended by the descriptions of WASPs. I don’t see them to be very mean at all.
Yes, they called Jews "frank, direct, and loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food." Clearly biased, as my previous comment said and whoever replied (you?) said you'd like to hear my honest assessment and that WASPs also have alcohol problems. So a second ago you wanted people to "go for it" and be honest but now that someone was you're offended?
I don’t think the initial comment by a different poster is biased at all. I think it’s very accurate on all counts. I’m also not remotely offended by your comment.
I think you’re quite funny. Why? Because while championing their cause, you don’t come across as politely WASPy in the least, nor do you have the coolheaded WASPy demeanor, the kind that built this country. Nope, instead you are seem to be deeply offended by WASPs being called “discreet” and “reserved,” which is not only not inoffensive but, also very true. Keep it coming! And please don’t tell me you’re a bot, I’ll be disappointed.
I'm glad you're not offended. And thanks for proving my point that your stereotypes about WASPs, the WASPs you THINK you know and are so pleased to have figured out, are completely wrong. Maybe they are "cold" and "reserved" with YOU and that's for a reason. I guarantee the conversations are different in private, when youre not around. That's the politest way I can say it. Have a good one.
I am a first generation immigrant but from a wealthy family. I went to prep school on the East Coast. Believe me I know a lot of WASPs and I can tell that you are not a real one. Are you the same poster who is upset about the “exclusive” definition that doesn’t include Midwestern people of German and Scandinavian?
You obviously don't know a thing. Keep believing that Gossip Girl or some Danielle Steel novel is a real depiction of WASPs. How would you even know, since it's not your culture? The delusion and sheer lack of self awareness is pretty comical. And no, I'm from the east coast, and know EXACTLY what a WASP is, and that you aren't one and will never be us or be able to understand us. Keep trying, though.
So, you have to be a member of a distinct subset of a culture to recognize it? Are you both Jewish and WASPy? I ask because you seem to have very strong views on both groups and their characteristics.
You can't be Jewish and a WASP, those are mutually exclusive terms. But you really have to be a member of any group to definitively give a statement of any authority about it. Of course, outsiders can give their own opinions/stereotypes, but only the insiders know how it really works.
What are you talking about? Shirley Jackson was as WASPy as they got, she married a Jew. They had children. Their children were both. Kyra Sedgwick is both. Come to think of it, I can think of a ton of famous people who are…
If they're Jewish theyre not WASP and vice versa. What is hard to understand?
Is this like a one drop rule or something? The second a Wasp marries a Jew their children are suddenly stripped of both their cultures and heritages? Let’s take Kyra Sedgwick, so example. Per Wikipedia, her ancestor, William Ellery, signed the Declaration of Independence, her other ancestor was an editor for Atlantic Monthly. The Sedgwick family has its own Wikipedia page because they are so prominent in American History. They are very definition of Boston Brahmins.
BUT suddenly, when her dad made children with her Jewish mom, he’s lost all ability to pass on his culture and heritage? And her mom, too, now has lost all ability to transfer her culture onto her kids? They are nothing at all?
Your nuttiness is making sense. Maybe you’re just extremely inbred….
Well, I mean, it's a subculture but there's some pretty broad bare minimum rules spelled out in the name for God's sake. And Jews don't fit into a certain one. Like... it's literally in the name, lmao. Get over it.
I’m none of the above. I just think you’re crazy.
Correct... you're none of the above. I'm glad you've accepted what I'm saying.
I haven’t accepted any of what you are saying because it’s completely ludicrous. It does matter if she fits the strict definition of a WASP, surely, Kyra Sedgwick is familiar with the culture and attitudes of the people in her own family. To say that she doesn’t understand the culture of her own father is ridiculous.
I will disengage at this point because realize that I am dealing with a mentally ill person on an anonymous board. Arguing with you about who can understand the characteristics of WASP culture is like picking on a resident at a nursing home.
It actually does matter if she fits the definition of a WASP. You wouldn't understand that because you're admittedly not even apart of either group, so I'm not sure why you're so invested? Maybe focusing on literally anything else that might be even tangentially related to your actual life instead of two groups that you will never and can never belong to. You'll never understand... and frankly, you're not supposed to. Take care.
I'm white anglo saxon and Episcopalian. My mom's family was one of the First Families of Virginia and my dad's great great grandfather was an Earl. I don't consider myself a WASP because I'm a lot of other stuff in there too and the first time I went to Bar Harbor was age 27. True WASPs are an endangered species.
Yes, but per this poster’s view, not only are you not a WASP, you are incapable of recognizing what they are because you must be one to be able to identify one. The same appears to be true for Jews.
Why does this upset you? Not everyone gets to be apart of every group. That's a problem why exactly? The other poster doesn't seem to care either way. What's the point of terms if they have no meaning?
I’m not at all upset about not being a part of a group, especially one I don’t identify with at all. I’m annoyed at the inane notion that I cannot recognize members of the group because I am not part of it. I’m not Italian American either, but I can tell when someone else is, often just by looking at them. I fail to see why I must be a WASP to be able to tell that someone else is one. It’s about being able to make basic observations and nothing else. But here some crazy person is claiming that WASPs are or so elusive in nature that you must be one to know one. That’s lame to say the least.
Oh my god this is going to be good. Please tell me how you know someone is Italian American by looking at them. Be precise.
They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses. But seriously, you need clues on this? What’s next? Confusion about how to identify African Americans?
Are you Indian? I feel like you must be Indian.
NP
I haven't posted on this thread nor read much more than this last page but why do posters always post this "you must be Indian" quip to demean someone? You should examine your racist values. I'm not even Indian but it's bugs the hell out of me.
The only people I know who would say something as blatantly racist and offensive as "They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses" are Indian.
What’s blatantly racist and offensive with saying someone looks Jewish? Julia Margolies and Debra Messing both look very Jewish and they are both beautiful. Adam Sandler, too.
If you take offense to someone saying another person looks Jewish, you are the one with the problem.
Because it's impossible to "look Jewish", because Jewish people come in a variety of looks. What you are actually describing is a stereotype. Just like my stereotype that Indians are racist.
I’m not Indian, fyi. Your racism is so obnoxiously fake unaware that I know you must be an “open minded” progressive. Yes, you can look Jewish and Italian and Indian and Chinese and English, etc. DNA tests will even break it down as to how much of each ancestry anyone has. It’s biological.
Why are these differences and variations to humanity so offensive to you?
Different poster. I literally can’t believe you said Italians look like Jewish people with crosses. It is so offensive for so many reasons. But it is also so offensive because it’s just wrong. There is no similarity in the way either “stereotype” looks. You are so provincial, it’s scary. I’m guessing you have never spent any time on the East Coast, especially NYC where there are lots of Jewish and Italian people. Not to mention my 100% Italian (parents off the boat) MIL with blond hair and blue eyes would like a word.
Ciao bambina, not only did I live in NY for ten years, I lived in Milan for two. You have to be blind not to see that Italians and Ashkenazi Jews look a helluva lot a like. Why do you think James Caan played in the Godfather? Or that the actresses who played Sophia and Dorothy on Golden Girls were Jewish? Casting agents thought they were interchangeable in Hollywood because they look alike.
The funny thing is Jews are never offended when you mistake them for an a Italian, but boy do Italians crack a nut if you make the mistake of thinking they’re Jewish. It’s remarkably funny, kinda like the German Americans insisting they are WASPs.
NP do you mean Sephardic Jews and Italians? Because those are both Mediterranean ethnicities. Ashkenazi Jews are from Northern Europe and often blond haired and blued eyed. Or do you mean the Jewish stereotype that many of us are trying to explain to you is offensive?
^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that *the stereotypes* of wealthy wealthy Jews and WASPS are similar. Note: I am not talking individuals, just the types.
Yes education is important to both but the personality types couldn't be more diametrically opposed: frank, candid, direct, loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food. Again, stereotypes... but they are pretty much diametrically opposed.
I grew up in New England among both communities and the WASP culture was a strong presence in my high school and even college, but much more so among friends' parents and grandparents. I don't see it as much anymore. For one thing prep schools and Ivies are no longer WASP bastions so pretty much everaything is different. Are there still pockets of exclusivity and is there still a certain style? Yes, but it is disappearing. In my opinion this is mostly a good thing, but also too bad in certain ways.
Gee, this doesn't sound biased at all 🤔 I guess I could fire back some fairly rude assessments of Jews and start praising WASPs but I have a feeling that wouldn't be allowed. Although I agree with you the groups are NOT similar in the slightest.
Go for it! I think those stereotypes are right on, especially about the food. Go to a wealthy WASPy wedding and a wealthy Jewish one. Compare the food and get back to me. Yes, the WASPy wedding will be beautiful and have amazing flowers and decor, but for some reason, they are going to scrimp on the food. The Jews will leave the flowers out, if need be, but not the food.
Also, the big elephant in the room difference was left out: Jews are far less likely than WASPs to have an alcohol problem.
Your turn…
Alrighty... since you've asked me to... grasping strivers, loud, new money, ostentatious, pushy/mannerless, cliquey/not welcoming to outsiders, horrible food (gefilte fish?! WTF), trashy, etc.
I will say that as much as you say people dont like WASP weddings, many people pay big bucks to get married in "WASPy" locations with a "WASP" style (which is kind of derived from English style). Not many people getting married in chuppahs despite being Filipino, IJS.
Anyway... each group can have their own judgements of their others.
The initial comment that you took offense to called Jews “frank,” “direct” and “loud.” Those were polite euphemisms. But I suppose that it makes you feel classier to spell it out “grasping strivers” and “trashy?”
I said point blank that WASPy weddings are aesthetically beautiful. It’s just that I make a point of eating before I go to one. With a Jewish wedding, I get a workout in first. Don’t even get me started on the lavishness that is an Indian wedding…but I digress. Also, practically every wedding I’ve gone to in the last decade has the bride being given away by both of her parents per Jewish tradition.
I’m not sure why you’re so offended by the descriptions of WASPs. I don’t see them to be very mean at all.
Yes, they called Jews "frank, direct, and loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food." Clearly biased, as my previous comment said and whoever replied (you?) said you'd like to hear my honest assessment and that WASPs also have alcohol problems. So a second ago you wanted people to "go for it" and be honest but now that someone was you're offended?
I don’t think the initial comment by a different poster is biased at all. I think it’s very accurate on all counts. I’m also not remotely offended by your comment.
I think you’re quite funny. Why? Because while championing their cause, you don’t come across as politely WASPy in the least, nor do you have the coolheaded WASPy demeanor, the kind that built this country. Nope, instead you are seem to be deeply offended by WASPs being called “discreet” and “reserved,” which is not only not inoffensive but, also very true. Keep it coming! And please don’t tell me you’re a bot, I’ll be disappointed.
I'm glad you're not offended. And thanks for proving my point that your stereotypes about WASPs, the WASPs you THINK you know and are so pleased to have figured out, are completely wrong. Maybe they are "cold" and "reserved" with YOU and that's for a reason. I guarantee the conversations are different in private, when youre not around. That's the politest way I can say it. Have a good one.
I am a first generation immigrant but from a wealthy family. I went to prep school on the East Coast. Believe me I know a lot of WASPs and I can tell that you are not a real one. Are you the same poster who is upset about the “exclusive” definition that doesn’t include Midwestern people of German and Scandinavian?
You obviously don't know a thing. Keep believing that Gossip Girl or some Danielle Steel novel is a real depiction of WASPs. How would you even know, since it's not your culture? The delusion and sheer lack of self awareness is pretty comical. And no, I'm from the east coast, and know EXACTLY what a WASP is, and that you aren't one and will never be us or be able to understand us. Keep trying, though.
So, you have to be a member of a distinct subset of a culture to recognize it? Are you both Jewish and WASPy? I ask because you seem to have very strong views on both groups and their characteristics.
You can't be Jewish and a WASP, those are mutually exclusive terms. But you really have to be a member of any group to definitively give a statement of any authority about it. Of course, outsiders can give their own opinions/stereotypes, but only the insiders know how it really works.
What are you talking about? Shirley Jackson was as WASPy as they got, she married a Jew. They had children. Their children were both. Kyra Sedgwick is both. Come to think of it, I can think of a ton of famous people who are…
If they're Jewish theyre not WASP and vice versa. What is hard to understand?
Is this like a one drop rule or something? The second a Wasp marries a Jew their children are suddenly stripped of both their cultures and heritages? Let’s take Kyra Sedgwick, so example. Per Wikipedia, her ancestor, William Ellery, signed the Declaration of Independence, her other ancestor was an editor for Atlantic Monthly. The Sedgwick family has its own Wikipedia page because they are so prominent in American History. They are very definition of Boston Brahmins.
BUT suddenly, when her dad made children with her Jewish mom, he’s lost all ability to pass on his culture and heritage? And her mom, too, now has lost all ability to transfer her culture onto her kids? They are nothing at all?
Your nuttiness is making sense. Maybe you’re just extremely inbred….
Well, I mean, it's a subculture but there's some pretty broad bare minimum rules spelled out in the name for God's sake. And Jews don't fit into a certain one. Like... it's literally in the name, lmao. Get over it.
I’m none of the above. I just think you’re crazy.
Correct... you're none of the above. I'm glad you've accepted what I'm saying.
I haven’t accepted any of what you are saying because it’s completely ludicrous. It does matter if she fits the strict definition of a WASP, surely, Kyra Sedgwick is familiar with the culture and attitudes of the people in her own family. To say that she doesn’t understand the culture of her own father is ridiculous.
I will disengage at this point because realize that I am dealing with a mentally ill person on an anonymous board. Arguing with you about who can understand the characteristics of WASP culture is like picking on a resident at a nursing home.
It actually does matter if she fits the definition of a WASP. You wouldn't understand that because you're admittedly not even apart of either group, so I'm not sure why you're so invested? Maybe focusing on literally anything else that might be even tangentially related to your actual life instead of two groups that you will never and can never belong to. You'll never understand... and frankly, you're not supposed to. Take care.
I'm white anglo saxon and Episcopalian. My mom's family was one of the First Families of Virginia and my dad's great great grandfather was an Earl. I don't consider myself a WASP because I'm a lot of other stuff in there too and the first time I went to Bar Harbor was age 27. True WASPs are an endangered species.
Yes, but per this poster’s view, not only are you not a WASP, you are incapable of recognizing what they are because you must be one to be able to identify one. The same appears to be true for Jews.
Why does this upset you? Not everyone gets to be apart of every group. That's a problem why exactly? The other poster doesn't seem to care either way. What's the point of terms if they have no meaning?
I’m not at all upset about not being a part of a group, especially one I don’t identify with at all. I’m annoyed at the inane notion that I cannot recognize members of the group because I am not part of it. I’m not Italian American either, but I can tell when someone else is, often just by looking at them. I fail to see why I must be a WASP to be able to tell that someone else is one. It’s about being able to make basic observations and nothing else. But here some crazy person is claiming that WASPs are or so elusive in nature that you must be one to know one. That’s lame to say the least.
Oh my god this is going to be good. Please tell me how you know someone is Italian American by looking at them. Be precise.
They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses. But seriously, you need clues on this? What’s next? Confusion about how to identify African Americans?
Are you Indian? I feel like you must be Indian.
NP
I haven't posted on this thread nor read much more than this last page but why do posters always post this "you must be Indian" quip to demean someone? You should examine your racist values. I'm not even Indian but it's bugs the hell out of me.
The only people I know who would say something as blatantly racist and offensive as "They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses" are Indian.
What’s blatantly racist and offensive with saying someone looks Jewish? Julia Margolies and Debra Messing both look very Jewish and they are both beautiful. Adam Sandler, too.
If you take offense to someone saying another person looks Jewish, you are the one with the problem.
Because it's impossible to "look Jewish", because Jewish people come in a variety of looks. What you are actually describing is a stereotype. Just like my stereotype that Indians are racist.
I’m not Indian, fyi. Your racism is so obnoxiously fake unaware that I know you must be an “open minded” progressive. Yes, you can look Jewish and Italian and Indian and Chinese and English, etc. DNA tests will even break it down as to how much of each ancestry anyone has. It’s biological.
Why are these differences and variations to humanity so offensive to you?
Different poster. I literally can’t believe you said Italians look like Jewish people with crosses. It is so offensive for so many reasons. But it is also so offensive because it’s just wrong. There is no similarity in the way either “stereotype” looks. You are so provincial, it’s scary. I’m guessing you have never spent any time on the East Coast, especially NYC where there are lots of Jewish and Italian people. Not to mention my 100% Italian (parents off the boat) MIL with blond hair and blue eyes would like a word.
Ciao bambina, not only did I live in NY for ten years, I lived in Milan for two. You have to be blind not to see that Italians and Ashkenazi Jews look a helluva lot a like. Why do you think James Caan played in the Godfather? Or that the actresses who played Sophia and Dorothy on Golden Girls were Jewish? Casting agents thought they were interchangeable in Hollywood because they look alike.
The funny thing is Jews are never offended when you mistake them for an an Italian, but boy do Italians crack a nut if you make the mistake of thinking they’re Jewish. It’s remarkably funny, kinda like the German Americans insisting they are WASPs.
Sure you lived in NYC and Milan. What a strange little troll you are. Repeatedly posting nonsense. And with such heart!
Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that *the stereotypes* of wealthy wealthy Jews and WASPS are similar. Note: I am not talking individuals, just the types.
Yes education is important to both but the personality types couldn't be more diametrically opposed: frank, candid, direct, loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food. Again, stereotypes... but they are pretty much diametrically opposed.
I grew up in New England among both communities and the WASP culture was a strong presence in my high school and even college, but much more so among friends' parents and grandparents. I don't see it as much anymore. For one thing prep schools and Ivies are no longer WASP bastions so pretty much everaything is different. Are there still pockets of exclusivity and is there still a certain style? Yes, but it is disappearing. In my opinion this is mostly a good thing, but also too bad in certain ways.
Gee, this doesn't sound biased at all 🤔 I guess I could fire back some fairly rude assessments of Jews and start praising WASPs but I have a feeling that wouldn't be allowed. Although I agree with you the groups are NOT similar in the slightest.
Go for it! I think those stereotypes are right on, especially about the food. Go to a wealthy WASPy wedding and a wealthy Jewish one. Compare the food and get back to me. Yes, the WASPy wedding will be beautiful and have amazing flowers and decor, but for some reason, they are going to scrimp on the food. The Jews will leave the flowers out, if need be, but not the food.
Also, the big elephant in the room difference was left out: Jews are far less likely than WASPs to have an alcohol problem.
Your turn…
Alrighty... since you've asked me to... grasping strivers, loud, new money, ostentatious, pushy/mannerless, cliquey/not welcoming to outsiders, horrible food (gefilte fish?! WTF), trashy, etc.
I will say that as much as you say people dont like WASP weddings, many people pay big bucks to get married in "WASPy" locations with a "WASP" style (which is kind of derived from English style). Not many people getting married in chuppahs despite being Filipino, IJS.
Anyway... each group can have their own judgements of their others.
The initial comment that you took offense to called Jews “frank,” “direct” and “loud.” Those were polite euphemisms. But I suppose that it makes you feel classier to spell it out “grasping strivers” and “trashy?”
I said point blank that WASPy weddings are aesthetically beautiful. It’s just that I make a point of eating before I go to one. With a Jewish wedding, I get a workout in first. Don’t even get me started on the lavishness that is an Indian wedding…but I digress. Also, practically every wedding I’ve gone to in the last decade has the bride being given away by both of her parents per Jewish tradition.
I’m not sure why you’re so offended by the descriptions of WASPs. I don’t see them to be very mean at all.
Yes, they called Jews "frank, direct, and loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food." Clearly biased, as my previous comment said and whoever replied (you?) said you'd like to hear my honest assessment and that WASPs also have alcohol problems. So a second ago you wanted people to "go for it" and be honest but now that someone was you're offended?
I don’t think the initial comment by a different poster is biased at all. I think it’s very accurate on all counts. I’m also not remotely offended by your comment.
I think you’re quite funny. Why? Because while championing their cause, you don’t come across as politely WASPy in the least, nor do you have the coolheaded WASPy demeanor, the kind that built this country. Nope, instead you are seem to be deeply offended by WASPs being called “discreet” and “reserved,” which is not only not inoffensive but, also very true. Keep it coming! And please don’t tell me you’re a bot, I’ll be disappointed.
I'm glad you're not offended. And thanks for proving my point that your stereotypes about WASPs, the WASPs you THINK you know and are so pleased to have figured out, are completely wrong. Maybe they are "cold" and "reserved" with YOU and that's for a reason. I guarantee the conversations are different in private, when youre not around. That's the politest way I can say it. Have a good one.
I am a first generation immigrant but from a wealthy family. I went to prep school on the East Coast. Believe me I know a lot of WASPs and I can tell that you are not a real one. Are you the same poster who is upset about the “exclusive” definition that doesn’t include Midwestern people of German and Scandinavian?
You obviously don't know a thing. Keep believing that Gossip Girl or some Danielle Steel novel is a real depiction of WASPs. How would you even know, since it's not your culture? The delusion and sheer lack of self awareness is pretty comical. And no, I'm from the east coast, and know EXACTLY what a WASP is, and that you aren't one and will never be us or be able to understand us. Keep trying, though.
So, you have to be a member of a distinct subset of a culture to recognize it? Are you both Jewish and WASPy? I ask because you seem to have very strong views on both groups and their characteristics.
You can't be Jewish and a WASP, those are mutually exclusive terms. But you really have to be a member of any group to definitively give a statement of any authority about it. Of course, outsiders can give their own opinions/stereotypes, but only the insiders know how it really works.
What are you talking about? Shirley Jackson was as WASPy as they got, she married a Jew. They had children. Their children were both. Kyra Sedgwick is both. Come to think of it, I can think of a ton of famous people who are…
If they're Jewish theyre not WASP and vice versa. What is hard to understand?
Is this like a one drop rule or something? The second a Wasp marries a Jew their children are suddenly stripped of both their cultures and heritages? Let’s take Kyra Sedgwick, so example. Per Wikipedia, her ancestor, William Ellery, signed the Declaration of Independence, her other ancestor was an editor for Atlantic Monthly. The Sedgwick family has its own Wikipedia page because they are so prominent in American History. They are very definition of Boston Brahmins.
BUT suddenly, when her dad made children with her Jewish mom, he’s lost all ability to pass on his culture and heritage? And her mom, too, now has lost all ability to transfer her culture onto her kids? They are nothing at all?
Your nuttiness is making sense. Maybe you’re just extremely inbred….
Well, I mean, it's a subculture but there's some pretty broad bare minimum rules spelled out in the name for God's sake. And Jews don't fit into a certain one. Like... it's literally in the name, lmao. Get over it.
I’m none of the above. I just think you’re crazy.
Correct... you're none of the above. I'm glad you've accepted what I'm saying.
I haven’t accepted any of what you are saying because it’s completely ludicrous. It does matter if she fits the strict definition of a WASP, surely, Kyra Sedgwick is familiar with the culture and attitudes of the people in her own family. To say that she doesn’t understand the culture of her own father is ridiculous.
I will disengage at this point because realize that I am dealing with a mentally ill person on an anonymous board. Arguing with you about who can understand the characteristics of WASP culture is like picking on a resident at a nursing home.
It actually does matter if she fits the definition of a WASP. You wouldn't understand that because you're admittedly not even apart of either group, so I'm not sure why you're so invested? Maybe focusing on literally anything else that might be even tangentially related to your actual life instead of two groups that you will never and can never belong to. You'll never understand... and frankly, you're not supposed to. Take care.
I'm white anglo saxon and Episcopalian. My mom's family was one of the First Families of Virginia and my dad's great great grandfather was an Earl. I don't consider myself a WASP because I'm a lot of other stuff in there too and the first time I went to Bar Harbor was age 27. True WASPs are an endangered species.
Yes, but per this poster’s view, not only are you not a WASP, you are incapable of recognizing what they are because you must be one to be able to identify one. The same appears to be true for Jews.
Why does this upset you? Not everyone gets to be apart of every group. That's a problem why exactly? The other poster doesn't seem to care either way. What's the point of terms if they have no meaning?
I’m not at all upset about not being a part of a group, especially one I don’t identify with at all. I’m annoyed at the inane notion that I cannot recognize members of the group because I am not part of it. I’m not Italian American either, but I can tell when someone else is, often just by looking at them. I fail to see why I must be a WASP to be able to tell that someone else is one. It’s about being able to make basic observations and nothing else. But here some crazy person is claiming that WASPs are or so elusive in nature that you must be one to know one. That’s lame to say the least.
Oh my god this is going to be good. Please tell me how you know someone is Italian American by looking at them. Be precise.
They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses. But seriously, you need clues on this? What’s next? Confusion about how to identify African Americans?
Are you Indian? I feel like you must be Indian.
NP
I haven't posted on this thread nor read much more than this last page but why do posters always post this "you must be Indian" quip to demean someone? You should examine your racist values. I'm not even Indian but it's bugs the hell out of me.
The only people I know who would say something as blatantly racist and offensive as "They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses" are Indian.
What’s blatantly racist and offensive with saying someone looks Jewish? Julia Margolies and Debra Messing both look very Jewish and they are both beautiful. Adam Sandler, too.
If you take offense to someone saying another person looks Jewish, you are the one with the problem.
Because it's impossible to "look Jewish", because Jewish people come in a variety of looks. What you are actually describing is a stereotype. Just like my stereotype that Indians are racist.
I’m not Indian, fyi. Your racism is so obnoxiously fake unaware that I know you must be an “open minded” progressive. Yes, you can look Jewish and Italian and Indian and Chinese and English, etc. DNA tests will even break it down as to how much of each ancestry anyone has. It’s biological.
Why are these differences and variations to humanity so offensive to you?
Different poster. I literally can’t believe you said Italians look like Jewish people with crosses. It is so offensive for so many reasons. But it is also so offensive because it’s just wrong. There is no similarity in the way either “stereotype” looks. You are so provincial, it’s scary. I’m guessing you have never spent any time on the East Coast, especially NYC where there are lots of Jewish and Italian people. Not to mention my 100% Italian (parents off the boat) MIL with blond hair and blue eyes would like a word.
Ciao bambina, not only did I live in NY for ten years, I lived in Milan for two. You have to be blind not to see that Italians and Ashkenazi Jews look a helluva lot a like. Why do you think James Caan played in the Godfather? Or that the actresses who played Sophia and Dorothy on Golden Girls were Jewish? Casting agents thought they were interchangeable in Hollywood because they look alike.
The funny thing is Jews are never offended when you mistake them for an an Italian, but boy do Italians crack a nut if you make the mistake of thinking they’re Jewish. It’s remarkably funny, kinda like the German Americans insisting they are WASPs.
Sure you lived in NYC and Milan. What a strange little troll you are. Repeatedly posting nonsense. And with such heart!
What's hilarous is that they picked Milan of all places to pretend to live. Milan, noted city of swarthy Italians!
Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that *the stereotypes* of wealthy wealthy Jews and WASPS are similar. Note: I am not talking individuals, just the types.
Yes education is important to both but the personality types couldn't be more diametrically opposed: frank, candid, direct, loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food. Again, stereotypes... but they are pretty much diametrically opposed.
I grew up in New England among both communities and the WASP culture was a strong presence in my high school and even college, but much more so among friends' parents and grandparents. I don't see it as much anymore. For one thing prep schools and Ivies are no longer WASP bastions so pretty much everaything is different. Are there still pockets of exclusivity and is there still a certain style? Yes, but it is disappearing. In my opinion this is mostly a good thing, but also too bad in certain ways.
Gee, this doesn't sound biased at all 🤔 I guess I could fire back some fairly rude assessments of Jews and start praising WASPs but I have a feeling that wouldn't be allowed. Although I agree with you the groups are NOT similar in the slightest.
Go for it! I think those stereotypes are right on, especially about the food. Go to a wealthy WASPy wedding and a wealthy Jewish one. Compare the food and get back to me. Yes, the WASPy wedding will be beautiful and have amazing flowers and decor, but for some reason, they are going to scrimp on the food. The Jews will leave the flowers out, if need be, but not the food.
Also, the big elephant in the room difference was left out: Jews are far less likely than WASPs to have an alcohol problem.
Your turn…
Alrighty... since you've asked me to... grasping strivers, loud, new money, ostentatious, pushy/mannerless, cliquey/not welcoming to outsiders, horrible food (gefilte fish?! WTF), trashy, etc.
I will say that as much as you say people dont like WASP weddings, many people pay big bucks to get married in "WASPy" locations with a "WASP" style (which is kind of derived from English style). Not many people getting married in chuppahs despite being Filipino, IJS.
Anyway... each group can have their own judgements of their others.
The initial comment that you took offense to called Jews “frank,” “direct” and “loud.” Those were polite euphemisms. But I suppose that it makes you feel classier to spell it out “grasping strivers” and “trashy?”
I said point blank that WASPy weddings are aesthetically beautiful. It’s just that I make a point of eating before I go to one. With a Jewish wedding, I get a workout in first. Don’t even get me started on the lavishness that is an Indian wedding…but I digress. Also, practically every wedding I’ve gone to in the last decade has the bride being given away by both of her parents per Jewish tradition.
I’m not sure why you’re so offended by the descriptions of WASPs. I don’t see them to be very mean at all.
Yes, they called Jews "frank, direct, and loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food." Clearly biased, as my previous comment said and whoever replied (you?) said you'd like to hear my honest assessment and that WASPs also have alcohol problems. So a second ago you wanted people to "go for it" and be honest but now that someone was you're offended?
I don’t think the initial comment by a different poster is biased at all. I think it’s very accurate on all counts. I’m also not remotely offended by your comment.
I think you’re quite funny. Why? Because while championing their cause, you don’t come across as politely WASPy in the least, nor do you have the coolheaded WASPy demeanor, the kind that built this country. Nope, instead you are seem to be deeply offended by WASPs being called “discreet” and “reserved,” which is not only not inoffensive but, also very true. Keep it coming! And please don’t tell me you’re a bot, I’ll be disappointed.
I'm glad you're not offended. And thanks for proving my point that your stereotypes about WASPs, the WASPs you THINK you know and are so pleased to have figured out, are completely wrong. Maybe they are "cold" and "reserved" with YOU and that's for a reason. I guarantee the conversations are different in private, when youre not around. That's the politest way I can say it. Have a good one.
I am a first generation immigrant but from a wealthy family. I went to prep school on the East Coast. Believe me I know a lot of WASPs and I can tell that you are not a real one. Are you the same poster who is upset about the “exclusive” definition that doesn’t include Midwestern people of German and Scandinavian?
You obviously don't know a thing. Keep believing that Gossip Girl or some Danielle Steel novel is a real depiction of WASPs. How would you even know, since it's not your culture? The delusion and sheer lack of self awareness is pretty comical. And no, I'm from the east coast, and know EXACTLY what a WASP is, and that you aren't one and will never be us or be able to understand us. Keep trying, though.
So, you have to be a member of a distinct subset of a culture to recognize it? Are you both Jewish and WASPy? I ask because you seem to have very strong views on both groups and their characteristics.
You can't be Jewish and a WASP, those are mutually exclusive terms. But you really have to be a member of any group to definitively give a statement of any authority about it. Of course, outsiders can give their own opinions/stereotypes, but only the insiders know how it really works.
What are you talking about? Shirley Jackson was as WASPy as they got, she married a Jew. They had children. Their children were both. Kyra Sedgwick is both. Come to think of it, I can think of a ton of famous people who are…
If they're Jewish theyre not WASP and vice versa. What is hard to understand?
Is this like a one drop rule or something? The second a Wasp marries a Jew their children are suddenly stripped of both their cultures and heritages? Let’s take Kyra Sedgwick, so example. Per Wikipedia, her ancestor, William Ellery, signed the Declaration of Independence, her other ancestor was an editor for Atlantic Monthly. The Sedgwick family has its own Wikipedia page because they are so prominent in American History. They are very definition of Boston Brahmins.
BUT suddenly, when her dad made children with her Jewish mom, he’s lost all ability to pass on his culture and heritage? And her mom, too, now has lost all ability to transfer her culture onto her kids? They are nothing at all?
Your nuttiness is making sense. Maybe you’re just extremely inbred….
Well, I mean, it's a subculture but there's some pretty broad bare minimum rules spelled out in the name for God's sake. And Jews don't fit into a certain one. Like... it's literally in the name, lmao. Get over it.
I’m none of the above. I just think you’re crazy.
Correct... you're none of the above. I'm glad you've accepted what I'm saying.
I haven’t accepted any of what you are saying because it’s completely ludicrous. It does matter if she fits the strict definition of a WASP, surely, Kyra Sedgwick is familiar with the culture and attitudes of the people in her own family. To say that she doesn’t understand the culture of her own father is ridiculous.
I will disengage at this point because realize that I am dealing with a mentally ill person on an anonymous board. Arguing with you about who can understand the characteristics of WASP culture is like picking on a resident at a nursing home.
It actually does matter if she fits the definition of a WASP. You wouldn't understand that because you're admittedly not even apart of either group, so I'm not sure why you're so invested? Maybe focusing on literally anything else that might be even tangentially related to your actual life instead of two groups that you will never and can never belong to. You'll never understand... and frankly, you're not supposed to. Take care.
I'm white anglo saxon and Episcopalian. My mom's family was one of the First Families of Virginia and my dad's great great grandfather was an Earl. I don't consider myself a WASP because I'm a lot of other stuff in there too and the first time I went to Bar Harbor was age 27. True WASPs are an endangered species.
Yes, but per this poster’s view, not only are you not a WASP, you are incapable of recognizing what they are because you must be one to be able to identify one. The same appears to be true for Jews.
Why does this upset you? Not everyone gets to be apart of every group. That's a problem why exactly? The other poster doesn't seem to care either way. What's the point of terms if they have no meaning?
I’m not at all upset about not being a part of a group, especially one I don’t identify with at all. I’m annoyed at the inane notion that I cannot recognize members of the group because I am not part of it. I’m not Italian American either, but I can tell when someone else is, often just by looking at them. I fail to see why I must be a WASP to be able to tell that someone else is one. It’s about being able to make basic observations and nothing else. But here some crazy person is claiming that WASPs are or so elusive in nature that you must be one to know one. That’s lame to say the least.
Oh my god this is going to be good. Please tell me how you know someone is Italian American by looking at them. Be precise.
They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses. But seriously, you need clues on this? What’s next? Confusion about how to identify African Americans?
Are you Indian? I feel like you must be Indian.
NP
I haven't posted on this thread nor read much more than this last page but why do posters always post this "you must be Indian" quip to demean someone? You should examine your racist values. I'm not even Indian but it's bugs the hell out of me.
The only people I know who would say something as blatantly racist and offensive as "They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses" are Indian.
What’s blatantly racist and offensive with saying someone looks Jewish? Julia Margolies and Debra Messing both look very Jewish and they are both beautiful. Adam Sandler, too.
If you take offense to someone saying another person looks Jewish, you are the one with the problem.
Because it's impossible to "look Jewish", because Jewish people come in a variety of looks. What you are actually describing is a stereotype. Just like my stereotype that Indians are racist.
I’m not Indian, fyi. Your racism is so obnoxiously fake unaware that I know you must be an “open minded” progressive. Yes, you can look Jewish and Italian and Indian and Chinese and English, etc. DNA tests will even break it down as to how much of each ancestry anyone has. It’s biological.
Why are these differences and variations to humanity so offensive to you?
Different poster. I literally can’t believe you said Italians look like Jewish people with crosses. It is so offensive for so many reasons. But it is also so offensive because it’s just wrong. There is no similarity in the way either “stereotype” looks. You are so provincial, it’s scary. I’m guessing you have never spent any time on the East Coast, especially NYC where there are lots of Jewish and Italian people. Not to mention my 100% Italian (parents off the boat) MIL with blond hair and blue eyes would like a word.
Ciao bambina, not only did I live in NY for ten years, I lived in Milan for two. You have to be blind not to see that Italians and Ashkenazi Jews look a helluva lot a like. Why do you think James Caan played in the Godfather? Or that the actresses who played Sophia and Dorothy on Golden Girls were Jewish? Casting agents thought they were interchangeable in Hollywood because they look alike.
The funny thing is Jews are never offended when you mistake them for an an Italian, but boy do Italians crack a nut if you make the mistake of thinking they’re Jewish. It’s remarkably funny, kinda like the German Americans insisting they are WASPs.
Sure you lived in NYC and Milan. What a strange little troll you are. Repeatedly posting nonsense. And with such heart!
What's hilarous is that they picked Milan of all places to pretend to live. Milan, noted city of swarthy Italians!
But but… how could you not believe them? They even posted ciao to prove that they lived in Italy and know what Italians look like!!
Anonymous wrote:^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
Northern Italians have blue eyes, sure. But they are not blonde except in German pockets. Most of the men over forty are bald altogether. And they don’t look like the Swedes you seem to be implying they look like. I feel like most of them looked a lot like Steve Buscemi (who is actually half Sicilian and Half English and Dutch), but you seem to think they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. They didn’t. And I’m going with the men because god knows the women dyed their hair all sorts of colors that did not match their skin tones.
As for the Jews who look like Italians, I meant Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t know a single Sephardic Jew to compare Italians to. The actors I mentioned were all Ashkenazi. In fact, I found Jews and Italians so similar looking that I looked into it. You are actually related according to numerous academic geneticists.
Anonymous wrote:^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
Northern Italians have blue eyes, sure. But they are not blonde except in German pockets. Most of the men over forty are bald altogether. And they don’t look like the Swedes you seem to be implying they look like. I feel like most of them looked a lot like Steve Buscemi (who is actually half Sicilian and Half English and Dutch), but you seem to think they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. They didn’t. And I’m going with the men because god knows the women dyed their hair all sorts of colors that did not match their skin tones.
As for the Jews who look like Italians, I meant Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t know a single Sephardic Jew to compare Italians to. The actors I mentioned were all Ashkenazi. In fact, I found Jews and Italians so similar looking that I looked into it. You are actually related according to numerous academic geneticists.
Anonymous wrote:I totally disagree that *the stereotypes* of wealthy wealthy Jews and WASPS are similar. Note: I am not talking individuals, just the types.
Yes education is important to both but the personality types couldn't be more diametrically opposed: frank, candid, direct, loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food. Again, stereotypes... but they are pretty much diametrically opposed.
I grew up in New England among both communities and the WASP culture was a strong presence in my high school and even college, but much more so among friends' parents and grandparents. I don't see it as much anymore. For one thing prep schools and Ivies are no longer WASP bastions so pretty much everaything is different. Are there still pockets of exclusivity and is there still a certain style? Yes, but it is disappearing. In my opinion this is mostly a good thing, but also too bad in certain ways.
Gee, this doesn't sound biased at all 🤔 I guess I could fire back some fairly rude assessments of Jews and start praising WASPs but I have a feeling that wouldn't be allowed. Although I agree with you the groups are NOT similar in the slightest.
Go for it! I think those stereotypes are right on, especially about the food. Go to a wealthy WASPy wedding and a wealthy Jewish one. Compare the food and get back to me. Yes, the WASPy wedding will be beautiful and have amazing flowers and decor, but for some reason, they are going to scrimp on the food. The Jews will leave the flowers out, if need be, but not the food.
Also, the big elephant in the room difference was left out: Jews are far less likely than WASPs to have an alcohol problem.
Your turn…
Alrighty... since you've asked me to... grasping strivers, loud, new money, ostentatious, pushy/mannerless, cliquey/not welcoming to outsiders, horrible food (gefilte fish?! WTF), trashy, etc.
I will say that as much as you say people dont like WASP weddings, many people pay big bucks to get married in "WASPy" locations with a "WASP" style (which is kind of derived from English style). Not many people getting married in chuppahs despite being Filipino, IJS.
Anyway... each group can have their own judgements of their others.
The initial comment that you took offense to called Jews “frank,” “direct” and “loud.” Those were polite euphemisms. But I suppose that it makes you feel classier to spell it out “grasping strivers” and “trashy?”
I said point blank that WASPy weddings are aesthetically beautiful. It’s just that I make a point of eating before I go to one. With a Jewish wedding, I get a workout in first. Don’t even get me started on the lavishness that is an Indian wedding…but I digress. Also, practically every wedding I’ve gone to in the last decade has the bride being given away by both of her parents per Jewish tradition.
I’m not sure why you’re so offended by the descriptions of WASPs. I don’t see them to be very mean at all.
Yes, they called Jews "frank, direct, and loud vs reserved, inhibited, discreet, quiet. Warm with family and throw big parties vs cold and don't serve enough food." Clearly biased, as my previous comment said and whoever replied (you?) said you'd like to hear my honest assessment and that WASPs also have alcohol problems. So a second ago you wanted people to "go for it" and be honest but now that someone was you're offended?
I don’t think the initial comment by a different poster is biased at all. I think it’s very accurate on all counts. I’m also not remotely offended by your comment.
I think you’re quite funny. Why? Because while championing their cause, you don’t come across as politely WASPy in the least, nor do you have the coolheaded WASPy demeanor, the kind that built this country. Nope, instead you are seem to be deeply offended by WASPs being called “discreet” and “reserved,” which is not only not inoffensive but, also very true. Keep it coming! And please don’t tell me you’re a bot, I’ll be disappointed.
I'm glad you're not offended. And thanks for proving my point that your stereotypes about WASPs, the WASPs you THINK you know and are so pleased to have figured out, are completely wrong. Maybe they are "cold" and "reserved" with YOU and that's for a reason. I guarantee the conversations are different in private, when youre not around. That's the politest way I can say it. Have a good one.
I am a first generation immigrant but from a wealthy family. I went to prep school on the East Coast. Believe me I know a lot of WASPs and I can tell that you are not a real one. Are you the same poster who is upset about the “exclusive” definition that doesn’t include Midwestern people of German and Scandinavian?
You obviously don't know a thing. Keep believing that Gossip Girl or some Danielle Steel novel is a real depiction of WASPs. How would you even know, since it's not your culture? The delusion and sheer lack of self awareness is pretty comical. And no, I'm from the east coast, and know EXACTLY what a WASP is, and that you aren't one and will never be us or be able to understand us. Keep trying, though.
So, you have to be a member of a distinct subset of a culture to recognize it? Are you both Jewish and WASPy? I ask because you seem to have very strong views on both groups and their characteristics.
You can't be Jewish and a WASP, those are mutually exclusive terms. But you really have to be a member of any group to definitively give a statement of any authority about it. Of course, outsiders can give their own opinions/stereotypes, but only the insiders know how it really works.
What are you talking about? Shirley Jackson was as WASPy as they got, she married a Jew. They had children. Their children were both. Kyra Sedgwick is both. Come to think of it, I can think of a ton of famous people who are…
If they're Jewish theyre not WASP and vice versa. What is hard to understand?
Is this like a one drop rule or something? The second a Wasp marries a Jew their children are suddenly stripped of both their cultures and heritages? Let’s take Kyra Sedgwick, so example. Per Wikipedia, her ancestor, William Ellery, signed the Declaration of Independence, her other ancestor was an editor for Atlantic Monthly. The Sedgwick family has its own Wikipedia page because they are so prominent in American History. They are very definition of Boston Brahmins.
BUT suddenly, when her dad made children with her Jewish mom, he’s lost all ability to pass on his culture and heritage? And her mom, too, now has lost all ability to transfer her culture onto her kids? They are nothing at all?
Your nuttiness is making sense. Maybe you’re just extremely inbred….
Well, I mean, it's a subculture but there's some pretty broad bare minimum rules spelled out in the name for God's sake. And Jews don't fit into a certain one. Like... it's literally in the name, lmao. Get over it.
I’m none of the above. I just think you’re crazy.
Correct... you're none of the above. I'm glad you've accepted what I'm saying.
I haven’t accepted any of what you are saying because it’s completely ludicrous. It does matter if she fits the strict definition of a WASP, surely, Kyra Sedgwick is familiar with the culture and attitudes of the people in her own family. To say that she doesn’t understand the culture of her own father is ridiculous.
I will disengage at this point because realize that I am dealing with a mentally ill person on an anonymous board. Arguing with you about who can understand the characteristics of WASP culture is like picking on a resident at a nursing home.
It actually does matter if she fits the definition of a WASP. You wouldn't understand that because you're admittedly not even apart of either group, so I'm not sure why you're so invested? Maybe focusing on literally anything else that might be even tangentially related to your actual life instead of two groups that you will never and can never belong to. You'll never understand... and frankly, you're not supposed to. Take care.
I'm white anglo saxon and Episcopalian. My mom's family was one of the First Families of Virginia and my dad's great great grandfather was an Earl. I don't consider myself a WASP because I'm a lot of other stuff in there too and the first time I went to Bar Harbor was age 27. True WASPs are an endangered species.
Yes, but per this poster’s view, not only are you not a WASP, you are incapable of recognizing what they are because you must be one to be able to identify one. The same appears to be true for Jews.
Why does this upset you? Not everyone gets to be apart of every group. That's a problem why exactly? The other poster doesn't seem to care either way. What's the point of terms if they have no meaning?
I’m not at all upset about not being a part of a group, especially one I don’t identify with at all. I’m annoyed at the inane notion that I cannot recognize members of the group because I am not part of it. I’m not Italian American either, but I can tell when someone else is, often just by looking at them. I fail to see why I must be a WASP to be able to tell that someone else is one. It’s about being able to make basic observations and nothing else. But here some crazy person is claiming that WASPs are or so elusive in nature that you must be one to know one. That’s lame to say the least.
Oh my god this is going to be good. Please tell me how you know someone is Italian American by looking at them. Be precise.
They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses. But seriously, you need clues on this? What’s next? Confusion about how to identify African Americans?
Are you Indian? I feel like you must be Indian.
NP
I haven't posted on this thread nor read much more than this last page but why do posters always post this "you must be Indian" quip to demean someone? You should examine your racist values. I'm not even Indian but it's bugs the hell out of me.
The only people I know who would say something as blatantly racist and offensive as "They look a lot like Jews, actually, except with crosses" are Indian.
What’s blatantly racist and offensive with saying someone looks Jewish? Julia Margolies and Debra Messing both look very Jewish and they are both beautiful. Adam Sandler, too.
If you take offense to someone saying another person looks Jewish, you are the one with the problem.
Because it's impossible to "look Jewish", because Jewish people come in a variety of looks. What you are actually describing is a stereotype. Just like my stereotype that Indians are racist.
I’m not Indian, fyi. Your racism is so obnoxiously fake unaware that I know you must be an “open minded” progressive. Yes, you can look Jewish and Italian and Indian and Chinese and English, etc. DNA tests will even break it down as to how much of each ancestry anyone has. It’s biological.
Why are these differences and variations to humanity so offensive to you?
Do you understand that there are black Jews? Mizrahi Jews? Sephardic Jews? Blonde haired blue eyed Jews? What exactly do you think a Jewish person looks like?
Also...China is a big country. Chinese people cover a variety of different ethnicities. Italian people come in a variety of colors, as do Indians.
You just sound like an uneducated bigot.
And you sound like an obtuse racist. When most people are talking about Jews in America, they mean Ashkenazi Jews, who have a certain look and who make up a huge majority of the American Jewish population. They’re not talking about Ethiopian Jews. (Also, lots of blonde haired blued eyed Jews look very Ashkenazi. What does Barbara Streisand look like? Irish?)
When people say Chinese, they usually mean Han, the vast majority of Chinese people are Han, not Uyghurs or whatever minority group you want to interject.
I haven’t seen ethnic Italians coming in a variety of colors. They look pretty White to me, but of course, they are a Mediterranean people and look so. Yes, the country has immigrants, but you know full well there is a difference. (And don’t start with the but someone can be half Italian and half Black and not look it.) You know exactly what I mean about looking Italian.
And I get that India is a country of many different types of people, Punjabis, Bengalis, Gujratis, blah, blah, blah but they don’t look German.
Tell me some more about how educated and color blind you are. It’s enlightening.
It would probably blow your mind if you met my father's blonde-haired, blue-eyed family from the northern part of Italy.
Anonymous wrote:Some of the posts on this thread remind me of the Curb episode where Larry and Jeff get thrown out their country club. They decide to apply to the all-WASP country club and Larry and Susie start arguing about who has more of Jew face.
Larry interviews for the country club and mocks WASPs so gloriously.
I loved that episode. While silent on what it means to “look Italian” it certainly convincingly answers many of the questions raised in this thread.
Anonymous wrote:^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
Northern Italians have blue eyes, sure. But they are not blonde except in German pockets. Most of the men over forty are bald altogether. And they don’t look like the Swedes you seem to be implying they look like. I feel like most of them looked a lot like Steve Buscemi (who is actually half Sicilian and Half English and Dutch), but you seem to think they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. They didn’t. And I’m going with the men because god knows the women dyed their hair all sorts of colors that did not match their skin tones.
As for the Jews who look like Italians, I meant Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t know a single Sephardic Jew to compare Italians to. The actors I mentioned were all Ashkenazi. In fact, I found Jews and Italians so similar looking that I looked into it. You are actually related according to numerous academic geneticists.
Anonymous wrote:^^or because you lived in Milan, do you mean Northern Italians and Ashkenazi Jews, again both tend to be blonde and blue eyed? Probably not because, again, what you actually mean is the stereotype.
Northern Italians have blue eyes, sure. But they are not blonde except in German pockets. Most of the men over forty are bald altogether. And they don’t look like the Swedes you seem to be implying they look like. I feel like most of them looked a lot like Steve Buscemi (who is actually half Sicilian and Half English and Dutch), but you seem to think they look like Arnold Schwarzenegger or something. They didn’t. And I’m going with the men because god knows the women dyed their hair all sorts of colors that did not match their skin tones.
As for the Jews who look like Italians, I meant Ashkenazi Jews. I don’t know a single Sephardic Jew to compare Italians to. The actors I mentioned were all Ashkenazi. In fact, I found Jews and Italians so similar looking that I looked into it. You are actually related according to numerous academic geneticists.
I'm the PP you are responding to and I'm Scottish and Norwegian.
And you really don’t think that Joe Pesci and Harvey Keitel aren’t completely interchangeable looks wise? Are you a blind Scot/Norwegian?
Well I was born in 1990 so I have no idea who either of those people are. I do know that I have brown hair and brown eyes despite being 100% Northern European, and that my sister in law is blond with blue eyes despite being Jewish. So my only point is that it's really fucking stupid to assume anything about anyone based on what they look like.
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