Insider Perspectives from a Highly Selective Admissions Office

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rude poster/troll will get a wakeup call when her future 12th grader with perfect stats is crushed when she doesn't make the cut at UVA or W&M after doing everything right, those perfect stats aren't enough get significant merit at private colleges, and FAFSA believes you can afford $70K a year in tuition on a below-DCUM-average HHI.

We in VA are SO lucky to have so many great in-state options. I know kids who have happily chosen CNU over UVA, UMW over W&M, and JMU over VT.

Sorry but I find this VERY hard to believe. (Do you mean kids accepted to both but chose CNU? - No way.)

PP. Way. Student is from a conservative family and much preferred the political climate at CNU. (Does anyone know if this is still the case at CNU?) Student has been very happy and successful at CNU. Tuition is a little cheaper and even $35K less debt may have been a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rude poster/troll will get a wakeup call when her future 12th grader with perfect stats is crushed when she doesn't make the cut at UVA or W&M after doing everything right, those perfect stats aren't enough get significant merit at private colleges, and FAFSA believes you can afford $70K a year in tuition on a below-DCUM-average HHI.

We in VA are SO lucky to have so many great in-state options. I know kids who have happily chosen CNU over UVA, UMW over W&M, and JMU over VT.

Sorry but I find this VERY hard to believe. (Do you mean kids accepted to both but chose CNU? - No way.)

PP. Way. Student is from a conservative family and much preferred the political climate at CNU. (Does anyone know if this is still the case at CNU?) Student has been very happy and successful at CNU. Tuition is a little cheaper and even $35K less debt may have been a factor.

^ So what is the "political climate" at UVa.? I'm genuinely interested.
Also, if you look these two schools up on Niche, the cost with the usual financial aide package is less at Uva.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rude poster/troll will get a wakeup call when her future 12th grader with perfect stats is crushed when she doesn't make the cut at UVA or W&M after doing everything right, those perfect stats aren't enough get significant merit at private colleges, and FAFSA believes you can afford $70K a year in tuition on a below-DCUM-average HHI.

We in VA are SO lucky to have so many great in-state options. I know kids who have happily chosen CNU over UVA, UMW over W&M, and JMU over VT.

I'm not sure which "rude poster/troll" you are referring to, but I am the poster of the 7th grader who I am presuming will have perfect (academic) stats in 12th grade. I will not be "crushed" in the sense of being "shocked" if she doesn't make the cut at W&M/UVA, because I'm largely expecting it, because she is too "well-rounded" in her extracurricular activities, which you hear over and over top colleges don't want. I have stated very clearly that I'm not expecting to get any aid at all from private colleges, because I know many families at my income level who have not received any. That's my issue. The only two schools we can afford that are of the academic caliber that one would expect a kid like her to attend are W&M and UVA. Yet, there is still a very good chance she won't get in because of this stupid expectation colleges have that a child should demonstrate a passion. Yes, I will be "crushed" at the thought of my child having no other choice but to attend a school much lower ranked than one she has the academic chops to attend. Yes, I know she will probably still do well in life regardless, but yes, I want my high achieving child to be able to attend a high caliber college.

Haven't commented so far, but you are working from several faulty assumptions. (A) lots of kids don't find their "passion" till much later, so not having one in 7th grade is normal, even for many future superstars (not to mention that some of what you hear described as "passion" in college admissions is packaging of a well-rounded candidate and finding a narrative with which to present yourself coherently) (B), I went to a "HYP" school and there were lots of well rounded kids there (which is not to say it's easy for well rounded kids to get in, but it's not easy for anyone), and (C) you can find astoundingly bright kid EVERYWHERE, even at the lesser-ranked public schools, because "HYP" is not an option for everyone and people make choices for all sorts of reasons, not least financial. The two smartest people I have ever met went to a non-flagship public university in the southwest and to Temple. There's no question in my mind they are smarter than the majority of my college classmates.

[Anonymous]

Forgive me if this was covered in 17 (!) pages: Is it not better to be an outstanding student from a "lesser" school, than an applicant from a "top" high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find No. 15 interesting:

"15. On interviews. We take on-campus interviews (admission officers, senior students) and those from very recent graduates more seriously than alumni interviews. If you are not seen as a good fit for the school based on an interview by a current student, recent graduate, or an admissions officer, your chances will be noticeably hurt; this is not really the case for alumni interviews. Our institution has changed over the last few years; we want to bring in students who will thrive in the community that is present, and the first group is a better judge of those (they are also trained to be impartial; we can't really host training for alumni). Few students have an interview that is so strong that it will noticeably help them for admissions."

What do you mean about your institution changing over the last few years? I can't think of a top college that has changed that much in the last few years that the experience of alums who graduated in, say, 2000, are no longer relevant? Or am I out of the loop? I ask because I used to do alumni interviewing and the school keeps asking me to volunteer again (I stopped due to a combination of time scarcity and the feeling that the interviews were a waste of time as no one I interviewed ever got accepted).

our school does not do on campus interviews - we try to give alumni interviews to each applicant. Part of that is to sell the school to them - we have no clue what their grades are etc. There are a list of articles each year plus the alumni magazine so that even us old fogies can stay current. I finally got my first kid accepted last year. A very strong candidate from this area who had delayed applying until regular admissions because of an offer of a free ride somewhere else got wait listed. The thing about applying early is that most of the students at our school who are accepted are accepted early, so your odds are tremendously better - maybe the stronger students apply early but those who apply, are academically qualified, have something to contribute, and commit (we do take yield into account) are much more likely to get in. I think last year 70% of the class was made up of kids who applied early. So there is a lot less space if you wait until the regular college season.

The nice thing about my school is we truly are needs blind - the DACA kids in Arizona cannot get into state schools as in state residents, and none of them from any state can obtain federal loans and banks usually don't extend credit for kids like these ones either. The goal for us is to have no one graduate more than $20-40k in debt, but even that can of course be absolutely crushing and determine what you do after college.... going to Goldman instead of medical school.... and if Navient is taking advantage of you if you have federal loans as was just in the papers....

Poor kids cannot get much help from parents frequently and the program that now exists (Questbridge) does not seem to really cover them adequately although it certainly helps. But admitting you are a DACA kid on an application would probably still be a mistake and I don't out them. Questbridge which is supposed to help poor minority applicants apply to high ranking colleges (there is an income aspect and an academic achievement aspect to the selection), but most of my friends (pre Questbridge) got help from one mentor or teacher, and that help seems to me like it was much more substantial. Biggest advantage to being in Questbridge is you can apply early to both Yale and Princeton - which other students are not allowed to do, but many of these kids don't because they are scared of committing without knowing about financial aid. It would be nice if Questbridge did a little more to educate them. We do have a financial aid calculator on our website.

They are told not to write much about how hard their lives have been on their applications. So I tell their stories for them. With the pool I work with via skype (kids from small towns in CA that no one can get to) whose parents are often migrant workers or engage in other types of manual labor, part of what I do is to say what their application does not. For some reason, applicants now are being told not to write essays that resemble anything like sob stories - having worked in the fields, being homeless, not being able to do extracurrics because you have to babysit younger siblings and clean houses with your mother on the weekends, or that you spent your summer working at Ruby Tuesday instead of a good looking unpaid internship because you had to contribute to the family income or you would have been evicted... So I tell their "sob stories" for them.

What do you think about that, admissions officer? The no sob stories on admissions essays?

And BTW, I don't believe you about admitting you have LDs. Yes technically the ADA applies but... if you are at a selective college where almost no one gets admitted, a special ed lawyer would unofficially tell you not to let them get their foot in the door to a college, just like we unofficially as employment lawyers don't recommend hiring them either. Physical disabilities are different, but again that might be a sob story.... The thing is if you let them get their foot in the door it can become very expensive to accommodate these kids...And most schools do not want high functioning Aspergers kids at their college. We know one, and are waiting to see what happens. One of the brightest kids I have ever met, but his social skills are terrible...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rude poster/troll will get a wakeup call when her future 12th grader with perfect stats is crushed when she doesn't make the cut at UVA or W&M after doing everything right, those perfect stats aren't enough get significant merit at private colleges, and FAFSA believes you can afford $70K a year in tuition on a below-DCUM-average HHI.

We in VA are SO lucky to have so many great in-state options. I know kids who have happily chosen CNU over UVA, UMW over W&M, and JMU over VT.

Sorry but I find this VERY hard to believe. (Do you mean kids accepted to both but chose CNU? - No way.)

PP. Way. Student is from a conservative family and much preferred the political climate at CNU. (Does anyone know if this is still the case at CNU?) Student has been very happy and successful at CNU. Tuition is a little cheaper and even $35K less debt may have been a factor.

Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rude poster/troll will get a wakeup call when her future 12th grader with perfect stats is crushed when she doesn't make the cut at UVA or W&M after doing everything right, those perfect stats aren't enough get significant merit at private colleges, and FAFSA believes you can afford $70K a year in tuition on a below-DCUM-average HHI.

We in VA are SO lucky to have so many great in-state options. I know kids who have happily chosen CNU over UVA, UMW over W&M, and JMU over VT.

Sorry but I find this VERY hard to believe. (Do you mean kids accepted to both but chose CNU? - No way.)

PP. Way. Student is from a conservative family and much preferred the political climate at CNU. (Does anyone know if this is still the case at CNU?) Student has been very happy and successful at CNU. Tuition is a little cheaper and even $35K less debt may have been a factor.

^ So what is the "political climate" at UVa.? I'm genuinely interested.
Also, if you look these two schools up on Niche, the cost with the usual financial aide package is less at Uva.

Many DCUM families earn to much money to get financial aid from VA state schools. My DC was accepted at UMW with a scholarship and at W&M with no financial aid or scholarship. The difference in price was almost $15k per year. That's real money. I would have encouraged DC to go to W&M anyway, but certainly would have been tempted by the notion of saving $60k. (DC ended up a different school.)

[Anonymous]

if she doesn't make the cut at W&M/UVA, because I'm largely expecting it, because she is too "well-rounded" in her extracurricular activities

You're about ten years behind with this thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

if she doesn't make the cut at W&M/UVA, because I'm largely expecting it, because she is too "well-rounded" in her extracurricular activities

You're about ten years behind with this thinking.

Well rounded is out "pointy" is in. However, for all of those parents of middle schoolers trying to direct their kids to find "their passion" at the expense of exploring a number of interests--just don't Undoubtedly the model will change in again by the time your child graduates.

[Anonymous]

I think this is because rounded and pointy don't matter, all they want is a nice way to tell you that your DC didn't get in.

"Well rounded is out "pointy" is in. However, for all of those parents of middle schoolers trying to direct their kids to find "their passion" at the expense of exploring a number of interests--just don't Undoubtedly the model will change in again by the time your child graduates."

[Anonymous]

Ok, so which one of you put the OP's post up on College Confidential?

[Anonymous]

Nice!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok, so which one of you put the OP's post up on College Confidential?

Where?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

if she doesn't make the cut at W&M/UVA, because I'm largely expecting it, because she is too "well-rounded" in her extracurricular activities

You're about ten years behind with this thinking.

how m I ten years behind in my thinking? Has well-rounded suddenly come back in fashion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forgive me if this was covered in 17 (!) pages: Is it not better to be an outstanding student from a "lesser" school, than an applicant from a "top" high school?

Some of the University admissions clearly state that they are looking at the "rigor of the curriculum" and usually its the top schools not the lesser schools which show this rigor.

So it could be 50/50. Any way it hangs, it will depend on many other factors, not just a better or worse school.