Afraid of backlash against Muslims

[Anonymous]

I have a suggestion for American Muslims who are tired of being associated with the violence of radical Islam. My suggestion is inspired by Jeff Steele's earlier comparison with moderate Republicans, who have found their party taken over by extremists and nutcases. Sometimes you have to leave the political party you grew up with, when its agenda is taken over by a small minority of extremists.

So my suggestion for American Muslims is to -- convert to Christianity! I realize it is difficult to give up the religion you grew up with, and where you likely still have many friends. But -- perhaps after a difficult initial transition period -- I think you can find the same comforts from Christianity that you currently find from Islam. I mention Christianity only because of the large number of denominations in the U.S. to choose from, and because it has some similarities to Islam (where Jesus is a prophet). But you could also choose other religions, or simply just disassociate yourself from Islam.

My main points are (1) it is no big deal to change your religion -- millions have done it, and (2) there is nothing that Islam can provide that Christianity can't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a suggestion for American Muslims who are tired of being associated with the violence of radical Islam. My suggestion is inspired by Jeff Steele's earlier comparison with moderate Republicans, who have found their party taken over by extremists and nutcases. Sometimes you have to leave the political party you grew up with, when its agenda is taken over by a small minority of extremists.

So my suggestion for American Muslims is to -- convert to Christianity! I realize it is difficult to give up the religion you grew up with, and where you likely still have many friends. But -- perhaps after a difficult initial transition period -- I think you can find the same comforts from Christianity that you currently find from Islam. I mention Christianity only because of the large number of denominations in the U.S. to choose from, and because it has some similarities to Islam (where Jesus is a prophet). But you could also choose other religions, or simply just disassociate yourself from Islam.

My main points are (1) it is no big deal to change your religion -- millions have done it, and (2) there is nothing that Islam can provide that Christianity can't.

Thank you, Dr. Carson. Unfortunately, intolerant evangelicals have taken over many American deniminations. You know, the folks who believe in Creationism and deny the realities of climate change. I would actually encourage Muslims to consider converting to Scientology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a suggestion for American Muslims who are tired of being associated with the violence of radical Islam. My suggestion is inspired by Jeff Steele's earlier comparison with moderate Republicans, who have found their party taken over by extremists and nutcases. Sometimes you have to leave the political party you grew up with, when its agenda is taken over by a small minority of extremists.

So my suggestion for American Muslims is to -- convert to Christianity! I realize it is difficult to give up the religion you grew up with, and where you likely still have many friends. But -- perhaps after a difficult initial transition period -- I think you can find the same comforts from Christianity that you currently find from Islam. I mention Christianity only because of the large number of denominations in the U.S. to choose from, and because it has some similarities to Islam (where Jesus is a prophet). But you could also choose other religions, or simply just disassociate yourself from Islam.

My main points are (1) it is no big deal to change your religion -- millions have done it, and (2) there is nothing that Islam can provide that Christianity can't.

Thank you, Dr. Carson. Unfortunately, intolerant evangelicals have taken over many American deniminations. You know, the folks who believe in Creationism and deny the realities of climate change. I would actually encourage Muslims to consider converting to Scientology.

Are both of these posts serious?

Christianity?
Scientology? perhaps as a way to meet Tom Cruise and John Travolta

[jsteele]

Armed protesters at a mosque in Irving, Texas. The Unhinged poster probably believes this is legitimate because those who attend the mosque haven't given televised denunciations that were dictated by him:

[Anonymous]

Interesting research piece on religious tribunals etc:
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/08/applying-gods-law-religious-courts-and-mediation-in-the-us/

"there is no single credentialing organization or centralized hierarchy for American imams, there also are no standard procedures for dispute resolution"

Would it not make sense for Mosques to organize and form groups based on beliefs? A USA form of Islam that would be indicative of beliefs, practices, etc of the vast majority of the Muslims here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a suggestion for American Muslims who are tired of being associated with the violence of radical Islam. My suggestion is inspired by Jeff Steele's earlier comparison with moderate Republicans, who have found their party taken over by extremists and nutcases. Sometimes you have to leave the political party you grew up with, when its agenda is taken over by a small minority of extremists.

So my suggestion for American Muslims is to -- convert to Christianity! I realize it is difficult to give up the religion you grew up with, and where you likely still have many friends. But -- perhaps after a difficult initial transition period -- I think you can find the same comforts from Christianity that you currently find from Islam. I mention Christianity only because of the large number of denominations in the U.S. to choose from, and because it has some similarities to Islam (where Jesus is a prophet). But you could also choose other religions, or simply just disassociate yourself from Islam.

My main points are (1) it is no big deal to change your religion -- millions have done it, and (2) there is nothing that Islam can provide that Christianity can't.

Wow, so political affiliation and religion are pretty much the same to you, huh?

[Anonymous]

The president just emphasized 1) that the fight against ISIS will be relentless, and 2) it is absolutely false to blame an entire religion. Yes and yes. As usual, he gets to the root of a situation far better than anyone here can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you, Dr. Carson. Unfortunately, intolerant evangelicals have taken over many American deniminations.

Do you think Quakers are intolerant? Unitarians? My point is that there are so many Christian denominations that a Muslim looking to convert could likely find a compatible one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Wow, so political affiliation and religion are pretty much the same to you, huh?

Sure, they both represent our values and beliefs. If we change -- or if the political party/religion changes -- then it is time to move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you, Dr. Carson. Unfortunately, intolerant evangelicals have taken over many American deniminations.

Do you think Quakers are intolerant? Unitarians? My point is that there are so many Christian denominations that a Muslim looking to convert could likely find a compatible one.

Only compatible if you think that Christianity does not require a belief that Jesus is God.

BTW Unitarianism is not Christian.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Radical Islamic Violence" is not very realistic threat to the average American, unless they spend a lot of time abroad in those areas. If you think it is an imminent threat that affects "most Americans" here on U.S soil, a doctor can prescribe medication for your paranoid/schizo personality disorder. I'm fairly certain that any given American has a higher chance of hitting the jackpot for mega-millions than being involved in a terrorist attack. I didn't crunch the numbers but the odds are pretty astronomically low.

And that's the "never going to happen here" bloated American mentality they are banking on.

We are America, we are exempt from all the tragic events that happen in other parts of the world because we are Americans.

It's not surprising though. America is a very young country. Thus the teenage "superman" complex is still very much pervasive as a young country.

That plus the appalling lack of World History and geography taught to students, especially to those that are now running this country when they were in school.

Please describe the scope of the threat that you believe we face? Do you think we face the loss of 40 million or so as Russia did under Stalin? Lower, maybe 12 million like the Nazis killed? A few hundred thousand? Given that -- unlike you believe us to be -- you are educated in World History and geography, what is the threat you believe we face?

The threat we are discussing and that I believe we most certainly are susceptible to is radical violence based on certain groups' practice of Islam. The scope? I'm not fortune teller but I base my judgements on history and current events.

Muslims under the mentality of Islamic "duty" have killed millions throughout history since it's religious conception. Other religions have too, so now what's the difference? There have been terrorist attacks in other countries for years, even before 9/11. We paid no attention because it did not effect us. The terrorists were targeting 'others'.

Now they have landed on us as a target. Historically, targeted countries have incurred terrorist attacks.

Since the discussion is about radical Islamic terror, I'm not comparing the scope to Stalin or Hitler. I'm comparing it to other accounts of radical Islamic terror.

You are the one comparing apples to oranges.

Now you either truly in your heart believe that we will never incur another terrorist attack by believers of Islam or you think that even if there is a terrorist attack it will only effect maybe a few hundred or thousand people in this land of 3 million so essentially, not a big deal. I mean especially if you're comparing it to Hitler or Stalin. So therefore we should not be so worried about it, it's just a mere terrorist attack and odds are you won't be injured or killed in it.

Not everyone agrees with that line of thinking but you seem to think everyone that does not is prejudiced.

Here is a list of State Dep't recognized foreign terrorist organizations. Look closely at which religious group comprises the majority of that list.

http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/other/des/123085.htm

Obviously we are not targets for all of those groups, but other countries have been and have also been effected by the actions of some of these groups. It would be irresponsible to not take this type of threat seriously. Yet we are all the crazy, paranoid, prejudiced ones.

You seem to think that having this opinion makes one anti-Muslim, which I am most definitely not. Having criticisms does not make one "anti" or prejudice. Yet you point that finger and make that charge if there is a differing viewpoint.

It's simply rational thinking with the application of relevant history that is correlated with Islamic terrorism and current events.

You are putting words in my mouth. All I did was ask you to describe the scope of the threat. As near as I can tell, you can't do that. You think there is a threat, but you can't say whether that threat is big or little. All you can say is that I accused you of being prejudiced which I don't think I did unless you are the unhinged poster.

You are correct in that I think we could be subject to a terrorist attack by radical Muslims, but I believe that attack will be on a scale that is not substantial in real terms. 9-11 was anomaly, and horrendously bad, but it still had a relatively low casualty count. Consider in the Syrian Civil War, over 200,000 have been killed. Other than 9-11, America has faced a much more deadly thread from right-wing terrorism. So, proper risk analysis would require more attention to right-wing violence than Islamic violence.

On your point that an Islamic terrorist attack on American soil would not be very substantial as far as casualty count compared to other countries, you could just as easily say that the amount of backlash that peaceful, tolerant Muslims might possibly feel in America is also not very substantial compared to the scale of backlash of the peaceful Muslims that are being terminated by ISIS.

The backlash they might feel here is minuscule to the backlash they receive in other countries.

I say this as a South Asian that gets swept into the backlash by people who fear my brown skin. I very much dislike it.

What I would like is not sympathy from Whites, which it is the format the OP seems to be taking, I want to see a movement for Islamic Reformation which cannot happen without a recognition of the fact that ISIS and all the other Islamic terror groups practice a very valid form of Islam. They didn't make it up, it's not a twisted interpretation. It's the way Islam was practiced ever since it's founder entered Medina.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
On your point that an Islamic terrorist attack on American soil would not be very substantial as far as casualty count compared to other countries, you could just as easily say that the amount of backlash that peaceful, tolerant Muslims might possibly feel in America is also not very substantial compared to the scale of backlash of the peaceful Muslims that are being terminated by ISIS.

The backlash they might feel here is minuscule to the backlash they receive in other countries.

I say this as a South Asian that gets swept into the backlash by people who fear my brown skin. I very much dislike it.

What I would like is not sympathy from Whites, which it is the format the OP seems to be taking, I want to see a movement for Islamic Reformation which cannot happen without a recognition of the fact that ISIS and all the other Islamic terror groups practice a very valid form of Islam. They didn't make it up, it's not a twisted interpretation. It's the way Islam was practiced ever since it's founder entered Medina.

If your interest is not a discussion of a possible backlash, but instead a discussion of an Islamic reformation movement, I am afraid that you joined the wrong thread and that you should probably start your own.

It is very tiresome when someone joins a thread only to say, "I am not interested in your issue, I want you to be interested in my issue". Go start your own thread.

Also, given the fact that you are South Asian, could you please start a reformation movement to stop South Asians from making scam telephone calls to me? Almost every day I get a telephone call from someone with a strong South Asian accent who tells me that my Windows computer has a problem. I don't own any Windows computers. If you South Asians don't acknowledge that these scams are a valid form of business, I'm not going to sympathize about a backlash.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
On your point that an Islamic terrorist attack on American soil would not be very substantial as far as casualty count compared to other countries, you could just as easily say that the amount of backlash that peaceful, tolerant Muslims might possibly feel in America is also not very substantial compared to the scale of backlash of the peaceful Muslims that are being terminated by ISIS.

The backlash they might feel here is minuscule to the backlash they receive in other countries.

I say this as a South Asian that gets swept into the backlash by people who fear my brown skin. I very much dislike it.

What I would like is not sympathy from Whites, which it is the format the OP seems to be taking, I want to see a movement for Islamic Reformation which cannot happen without a recognition of the fact that ISIS and all the other Islamic terror groups practice a very valid form of Islam. They didn't make it up, it's not a twisted interpretation. It's the way Islam was practiced ever since it's founder entered Medina.

If your interest is not a discussion of a possible backlash, but instead a discussion of an Islamic reformation movement, I am afraid that you joined the wrong thread and that you should probably start your own.

It is very tiresome when someone joins a thread only to say, "I am not interested in your issue, I want you to be interested in my issue". Go start your own thread.

Also, given the fact that you are South Asian, could you please start a reformation movement to stop South Asians from making scam telephone calls to me? Almost every day I get a telephone call from someone with a strong South Asian accent who tells me that my Windows computer has a problem. I don't own any Windows computers. If you South Asians don't acknowledge that these scams are a valid form of business, I'm not going to sympathize about a backlash.

I didn't derail this thread, I joined the 'conversation' where someone wrote ""Radical Islamic Violence is not a very realistic threat to the average American". I wrote my thoughts on that comment. You responded asking me to provide you with a "scope" of that threat would look like. Again I responded. You stated that the scope was insignificant. I also replied that along those lines of thinking we could just as easily say the "scope" of Muslim backlash is insignificant.

Next, you want me to go away and then throw insults at my ethnicity. Okay then Mr. Moderator.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
On your point that an Islamic terrorist attack on American soil would not be very substantial as far as casualty count compared to other countries, you could just as easily say that the amount of backlash that peaceful, tolerant Muslims might possibly feel in America is also not very substantial compared to the scale of backlash of the peaceful Muslims that are being terminated by ISIS.

The backlash they might feel here is minuscule to the backlash they receive in other countries.

I say this as a South Asian that gets swept into the backlash by people who fear my brown skin. I very much dislike it.

What I would like is not sympathy from Whites, which it is the format the OP seems to be taking, I want to see a movement for Islamic Reformation which cannot happen without a recognition of the fact that ISIS and all the other Islamic terror groups practice a very valid form of Islam. They didn't make it up, it's not a twisted interpretation. It's the way Islam was practiced ever since it's founder entered Medina.

If your interest is not a discussion of a possible backlash, but instead a discussion of an Islamic reformation movement, I am afraid that you joined the wrong thread and that you should probably start your own.

It is very tiresome when someone joins a thread only to say, "I am not interested in your issue, I want you to be interested in my issue". Go start your own thread.

Also, given the fact that you are South Asian, could you please start a reformation movement to stop South Asians from making scam telephone calls to me? Almost every day I get a telephone call from someone with a strong South Asian accent who tells me that my Windows computer has a problem. I don't own any Windows computers. If you South Asians don't acknowledge that these scams are a valid form of business, I'm not going to sympathize about a backlash.

I didn't derail this thread, I joined the 'conversation' where someone wrote ""Radical Islamic Violence is not a very realistic threat to the average American". I wrote my thoughts on that comment. You responded asking me to provide you with a "scope" of that threat would look like. Again I responded. You stated that the scope was insignificant. I also replied that along those lines of thinking we could just as easily say the "scope" of Muslim backlash is insignificant.

Next, you want me to go away and then throw insults at my ethnicity. Okay then Mr. Moderator.

I didn't accuse you of derailing this thread. I suggested that based on your own words, this thread wasn't of interest to you. Also, where did I insult your ethnicity? I didn't make a single derogatory comment about your ethnicity. You are awful touchy for someone who thinks that Muslims need to reform their religion before they can worry about a backlash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you, Dr. Carson. Unfortunately, intolerant evangelicals have taken over many American deniminations.

Do you think Quakers are intolerant? Unitarians? My point is that there are so many Christian denominations that a Muslim looking to convert could likely find a compatible one.

Only compatible if you think that Christianity does not require a belief that Jesus is God.

BTW Unitarianism is not Christian.

Why should Muslims have to convert to Christianity? Seems to me a more appropriate thing would be promotion of less radical sects.

One of the things being discussed in France and Belgium is that there was a mass influx of Muslims but without sufficient mainstream Muslim houses of worship and without a robust Muslim community to teach proper values, which is what allowed radicalization to occur.