On the chopping block: AAP Centers

[Anonymous]

And yes, GBW is one of the schools that posters are saying is a toxic environment. The extreme overcrowding combined with the imbalance of aap to ge classes being 3:1 creates that.

We'll see if the new center makes much difference-the rumor is that we're going to be around 200 kids over capacity still.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yes, GBW is one of the schools that posters are saying is a toxic environment. The extreme overcrowding combined with the imbalance of aap to ge classes being 3:1 creates that.

We'll see if the new center makes much difference-the rumor is that we're going to be around 200 kids over capacity still.

But that sounds like a GBW specific problem (and 260+ kids over capacity is awful). Not a systemic AAP problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yes, GBW is one of the schools that posters are saying is a toxic environment. The extreme overcrowding combined with the imbalance of aap to ge classes being 3:1 creates that.

We'll see if the new center makes much difference-the rumor is that we're going to be around 200 kids over capacity still.

But that sounds like a GBW specific problem (and 260+ kids over capacity is awful). Not a systemic AAP problem.

To be clear, I said I wasn't opposed to centers. The way ours has evolved is horrible.

But I do think it would be nice if people would acknowledge that certain center schools have some true issues to be addressed, not just say "well, my school isn't like that" and act like we're all crazy to be upset with this system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yes, GBW is one of the schools that posters are saying is a toxic environment. The extreme overcrowding combined with the imbalance of aap to ge classes being 3:1 creates that.

We'll see if the new center makes much difference-the rumor is that we're going to be around 200 kids over capacity still.

But that sounds like a GBW specific problem (and 260+ kids over capacity is awful). Not a systemic AAP problem.

To be clear, I said I wasn't opposed to centers. The way ours has evolved is horrible.

But I do think it would be nice if people would acknowledge that certain center schools have some true issues to be addressed, not just say "well, my school isn't like that" and act like we're all crazy to be upset with this system.

Sure. Let's dismantle LA. But let's leave the other alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because parents choose to be cordial doesn't mean the school situation is healthy

Exactly. Most of the parents saying their school is just fine, has no problems with AAP/GE, etc. are, in fact, AAP parents. Of course they don't see the problems! And, as PP says, parents are generally going to be cordial and polite in person. You're probably never going to hear anything negative from a parent at your school if they feel what they have to say is going to be received negatively. That's why it was very interesting to read the comments on the FCPS message board, when they opened it up for discussion. Many parents were upset over centers and the way AAP is administered, and spoke freely in those comments - because it was anonymous.

I think the FCPS' User Voice suggestion of assigning some neighborhood schools to be all AAP is a good suggestion. There are some parts of the county where schools are located in close proximity to one another. Just take entire schools in various locations across the county and make them all AAP. There would be no need for Advanced Academic Resource Teachers in the base schools, either.

I don't think that is a bad idea.

HOWEVER there are going to be many EXTREMELY unhappy base school parents who are pleased with their school and happy to be able to have, for example, one kid in GE and a sibling in AAP, who are going to be furious when they are going to get reassigned to a different school so there school can be turned into a center only school.

I would bet money that there are far more people who would be upset by this and that there are many more people who would prefer the status quo over such an idea.

That is a can of worms fcps does not want to open.

Maybe though they could pilot it with one of the schools that dcum says flier in this thread who have is nothing but problems...perhaps Louise Archer.

Turn that school into a 3-6 AAP only magnet and reassign all the other kids to neighboring schools and see how it goes.

LA gen ed/anti AAP parent posting here, what say you? Could you get behind such an idea?

AAP parent, and I like that DC goes to school with a mix of kids. She doesn't need all AAP peers (although she does need enough for at least 2 classes, which almost no base schools have). Also, this seems like you are setting up a TJ situation, with parents griping about kids having access to an elite super school and get busing there. But, there are certainly GE parents earlier in this thread who said they would welcome redistricting if it meant their kids didn't have to go to the same school as AAP kids. So presumably, they would nOT mind if there kids were sent to a different school so the local Center could become all AAP.

PPs -- you raise good points.

I like the idea of a pilot "all AAP" school.

I seem to recall Greenbriar West did a survey of parents prior to the Poplar Tree change. Maybe survey the Louise Archer parents and ask for their feedback?

If PPs are as unhappy with having their kids with AAP kids as they say, they should jump at the chance to send their kids somewhere else. Problem solved (I suspect not. I'm sure GE parents would hate this solution too).

To my knowledge, no one has said they are unhappy with having AAP kids at their school. The problem arises when AAP kids become the majority, such as at several center schools, and the GE kids are now the minority, going through years with the same peers. It's interesting that AAP parents cry foul when their kids don't have a "peer group," but it's perfectly ok in their book for the GE kids to be stuck with the same classmates year after year.

Having LLIV in every base school would ensure there is not a huge block of AAP kids at one school (centers). They would be dispersed among all the base schools. I'm not sure why some of you are trying to make this so difficult. It's a much simpler solution than the current one of having multiple schools feed into centers, and providing busing from all of those schools (for free, no less).

Wouldn't that likely give AAP students exactly one small class of kids they spend 4 years with? How is that better?

I believe the point is that none of the AAP parents seem to care when there's a situation in which there is one, maybe two, classes of GE students. But when it's the reverse - i.e. a very small group of AAP students - then their parents are outraged. It's more than a little hypocritical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because parents choose to be cordial doesn't mean the school situation is healthy

Exactly. Most of the parents saying their school is just fine, has no problems with AAP/GE, etc. are, in fact, AAP parents. Of course they don't see the problems! And, as PP says, parents are generally going to be cordial and polite in person. You're probably never going to hear anything negative from a parent at your school if they feel what they have to say is going to be received negatively. That's why it was very interesting to read the comments on the FCPS message board, when they opened it up for discussion. Many parents were upset over centers and the way AAP is administered, and spoke freely in those comments - because it was anonymous.

I think the FCPS' User Voice suggestion of assigning some neighborhood schools to be all AAP is a good suggestion. There are some parts of the county where schools are located in close proximity to one another. Just take entire schools in various locations across the county and make them all AAP. There would be no need for Advanced Academic Resource Teachers in the base schools, either.

I don't think that is a bad idea.

HOWEVER there are going to be many EXTREMELY unhappy base school parents who are pleased with their school and happy to be able to have, for example, one kid in GE and a sibling in AAP, who are going to be furious when they are going to get reassigned to a different school so there school can be turned into a center only school.

I would bet money that there are far more people who would be upset by this and that there are many more people who would prefer the status quo over such an idea.

That is a can of worms fcps does not want to open.

Maybe though they could pilot it with one of the schools that dcum says flier in this thread who have is nothing but problems...perhaps Louise Archer.

Turn that school into a 3-6 AAP only magnet and reassign all the other kids to neighboring schools and see how it goes.

LA gen ed/anti AAP parent posting here, what say you? Could you get behind such an idea?

AAP parent, and I like that DC goes to school with a mix of kids. She doesn't need all AAP peers (although she does need enough for at least 2 classes, which almost no base schools have). Also, this seems like you are setting up a TJ situation, with parents griping about kids having access to an elite super school and get busing there. But, there are certainly GE parents earlier in this thread who said they would welcome redistricting if it meant their kids didn't have to go to the same school as AAP kids. So presumably, they would nOT mind if there kids were sent to a different school so the local Center could become all AAP.

PPs -- you raise good points.

I like the idea of a pilot "all AAP" school.

I seem to recall Greenbriar West did a survey of parents prior to the Poplar Tree change. Maybe survey the Louise Archer parents and ask for their feedback?

If PPs are as unhappy with having their kids with AAP kids as they say, they should jump at the chance to send their kids somewhere else. Problem solved (I suspect not. I'm sure GE parents would hate this solution too).

To my knowledge, no one has said they are unhappy with having AAP kids at their school. The problem arises when AAP kids become the majority, such as at several center schools, and the GE kids are now the minority, going through years with the same peers. It's interesting that AAP parents cry foul when their kids don't have a "peer group," but it's perfectly ok in their book for the GE kids to be stuck with the same classmates year after year.

Having LLIV in every base school would ensure there is not a huge block of AAP kids at one school (centers). They would be dispersed among all the base schools. I'm not sure why some of you are trying to make this so difficult. It's a much simpler solution than the current one of having multiple schools feed into centers, and providing busing from all of those schools (for free, no less).

Wouldn't that likely give AAP students exactly one small class of kids they spend 4 years with? How is that better?

For starters, you child is in one being affected, and not PPs, who thinks it is outrageous that his DC is stuck in a school with ONLY 2 gen Ed classes (or 60+ students).

Case in point. You are advocating centers so that your child will have his/her "peer group," correct? So what happens to the GE students who attend center schools? Why is it ok for their "peer group" to dwindle so that your kids can have "critical mass"? And by the way, I am so tired of all these buzzwords. It's beyond silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't even get me started on that sham of a survey that they did during the GBW/poplar tree process.

I personally don't hate centers. But the overcrowding the center was creating was outrageous. And poplar tree was under enrolled. A redistrict of some sort needed to happen. Sending the poplar tree kids back to their base school was the most logical solution. My personal opinion was that they shouldn't have involved the Brookfield children or cub run (?) and made poplar tree the center for pt and Colin Powell AAP students.

Yes, redistricts suck. But if your school in your neighborhood was overcrowded by 260+ students, and there was an under enrolled school right down the street, what would you want done?

However, I still don't get why it is horrific to suggest kids be moved, especially in the scenario we were facing. I wanted them to go farther and move the rising 5th graders, as they had done a few years before in a non-center related redistrict. But apparently, that was just a step too far according to the school board. Can't overcrowd poor poplar tree - we'll just leave GBW 150+ kids over.

It's not at all horrific to suggest kids be moved. Especially when they'd simply be moving back to their base school. It's not like they have to all of a sudden go across town to a completely different neighborhood... kind of like when they are attending centers!

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't that likely give AAP students exactly one small class of kids they spend 4 years with? How is that better?

Because then it would be the overprivileged AAP kids affected, not mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't even get me started on that sham of a survey that they did during the GBW/poplar tree process.

I personally don't hate centers. But the overcrowding the center was creating was outrageous. And poplar tree was under enrolled. A redistrict of some sort needed to happen. Sending the poplar tree kids back to their base school was the most logical solution. My personal opinion was that they shouldn't have involved the Brookfield children or cub run (?) and made poplar tree the center for pt and Colin Powell AAP students.

Yes, redistricts suck. But if your school in your neighborhood was overcrowded by 260+ students, and there was an under enrolled school right down the street, what would you want done?

However, I still don't get why it is horrific to suggest kids be moved, especially in the scenario we were facing. I wanted them to go farther and move the rising 5th graders, as they had done a few years before in a non-center related redistrict. But apparently, that was just a step too far according to the school board. Can't overcrowd poor poplar tree - we'll just leave GBW 150+ kids over.

It's not at all horrific to suggest kids be moved. Especially when they'd simply be moving back to their base school. It's not like they have to all of a sudden go across town to a completely different neighborhood... kind of like when they are attending centers!

It would be pretty bad for my kid, who is one of 3 Center eligible students in the 4th grade at our base school. He finally has a peer group at the Center school and you want to kick him out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just because parents choose to be cordial doesn't mean the school situation is healthy

Exactly. Most of the parents saying their school is just fine, has no problems with AAP/GE, etc. are, in fact, AAP parents. Of course they don't see the problems! And, as PP says, parents are generally going to be cordial and polite in person. You're probably never going to hear anything negative from a parent at your school if they feel what they have to say is going to be received negatively. That's why it was very interesting to read the comments on the FCPS message board, when they opened it up for discussion. Many parents were upset over centers and the way AAP is administered, and spoke freely in those comments - because it was anonymous.

I think the FCPS' User Voice suggestion of assigning some neighborhood schools to be all AAP is a good suggestion. There are some parts of the county where schools are located in close proximity to one another. Just take entire schools in various locations across the county and make them all AAP. There would be no need for Advanced Academic Resource Teachers in the base schools, either.

I don't think that is a bad idea.

HOWEVER there are going to be many EXTREMELY unhappy base school parents who are pleased with their school and happy to be able to have, for example, one kid in GE and a sibling in AAP, who are going to be furious when they are going to get reassigned to a different school so there school can be turned into a center only school.

I would bet money that there are far more people who would be upset by this and that there are many more people who would prefer the status quo over such an idea.

That is a can of worms fcps does not want to open.

Maybe though they could pilot it with one of the schools that dcum says flier in this thread who have is nothing but problems...perhaps Louise Archer.

Turn that school into a 3-6 AAP only magnet and reassign all the other kids to neighboring schools and see how it goes.

LA gen ed/anti AAP parent posting here, what say you? Could you get behind such an idea?

AAP parent, and I like that DC goes to school with a mix of kids. She doesn't need all AAP peers (although she does need enough for at least 2 classes, which almost no base schools have). Also, this seems like you are setting up a TJ situation, with parents griping about kids having access to an elite super school and get busing there. But, there are certainly GE parents earlier in this thread who said they would welcome redistricting if it meant their kids didn't have to go to the same school as AAP kids. So presumably, they would nOT mind if there kids were sent to a different school so the local Center could become all AAP.

PPs -- you raise good points.

I like the idea of a pilot "all AAP" school.

I seem to recall Greenbriar West did a survey of parents prior to the Poplar Tree change. Maybe survey the Louise Archer parents and ask for their feedback?

If PPs are as unhappy with having their kids with AAP kids as they say, they should jump at the chance to send their kids somewhere else. Problem solved (I suspect not. I'm sure GE parents would hate this solution too).

To my knowledge, no one has said they are unhappy with having AAP kids at their school. The problem arises when AAP kids become the majority, such as at several center schools, and the GE kids are now the minority, going through years with the same peers. It's interesting that AAP parents cry foul when their kids don't have a "peer group," but it's perfectly ok in their book for the GE kids to be stuck with the same classmates year after year.

Having LLIV in every base school would ensure there is not a huge block of AAP kids at one school (centers). They would be dispersed among all the base schools. I'm not sure why some of you are trying to make this so difficult. It's a much simpler solution than the current one of having multiple schools feed into centers, and providing busing from all of those schools (for free, no less).

Wouldn't that likely give AAP students exactly one small class of kids they spend 4 years with? How is that better?

For starters, you child is in one being affected, and not PPs, who thinks it is outrageous that his DC is stuck in a school with ONLY 2 gen Ed classes (or 60+ students).

Case in point. You are advocating centers so that your child will have his/her "peer group," correct? So what happens to the GE students who attend center schools? Why is it ok for their "peer group" to dwindle so that your kids can have "critical mass"? And by the way, I am so tired of all these buzzwords. It's beyond silly.

2 full classes seems like a "peer group" to me. AAP parents because their kid's "peer group" at a base school might be in the single digits.

[Anonymous]

I have not seen a single AAP parent on this board argue that their child cannot function in a school with 60 AAP kids per class. Private school kids find their peers with 2 classes per grade. Why are Gen Ed kids with 60 Gen Ed classmates somehow different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Wouldn't that likely give AAP students exactly one small class of kids they spend 4 years with? How is that better?

Because then it would be the overprivileged AAP kids affected, not mine.



Wow. With that screw you attitude, I can see why the environment in your school is toxic. I'm so glad my kids are into in a school with parents like you. And what makes AAP kids over privileged? No one has answered the question about what extra resources are actually being diverted. And my AAP Kids don't live in a 2 million dollar home, vacation to Europe, and carry new iPhones to ES unlike a lot of their Gen Ed classmates. Would your kid be overprivileged and deserving of your scorn if they had made the AAP cut?

[Anonymous]

the post a while back about the person who bought a cheaper bigger house in another neighborhood because they were already set for their kids to attend the center rubs me the wrong way after the fight we just endured. The only people who have an absolute right to be in any school are the ones in that district (yes, I realize lines do change from time to time). In the overcrowding situation at GBW, the center was the issue, and it needed to be remedied. If you bought in another neighborhood and expected that your kids have a right to attend another school, you are wrong. If it is absolutely critically important that your children must attend one school only, please buy as close to that school as possible within the boundary line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't even get me started on that sham of a survey that they did during the GBW/poplar tree process.

I personally don't hate centers. But the overcrowding the center was creating was outrageous. And poplar tree was under enrolled. A redistrict of some sort needed to happen. Sending the poplar tree kids back to their base school was the most logical solution. My personal opinion was that they shouldn't have involved the Brookfield children or cub run (?) and made poplar tree the center for pt and Colin Powell AAP students.

Yes, redistricts suck. But if your school in your neighborhood was overcrowded by 260+ students, and there was an under enrolled school right down the street, what would you want done?

However, I still don't get why it is horrific to suggest kids be moved, especially in the scenario we were facing. I wanted them to go farther and move the rising 5th graders, as they had done a few years before in a non-center related redistrict. But apparently, that was just a step too far according to the school board. Can't overcrowd poor poplar tree - we'll just leave GBW 150+ kids over.

It's not at all horrific to suggest kids be moved. Especially when they'd simply be moving back to their base school. It's not like they have to all of a sudden go across town to a completely different neighborhood... kind of like when they are attending centers!

It would be pretty bad for my kid, who is one of 3 Center eligible students in the 4th grade at our base school. He finally has a peer group at the Center school and you want to kick him out?

I am the original GBW poster above. You are responding to someone who responded to my post. I'm not sold on the dismantling of all centers, and certainly I can understand the situation where there aren't enough AAP children at your school. My beef was with the severe overcrowding and imbalance created by our bloated center. There were 2 schools sending 25-35 kids per year to our center, and they both are currently underenrolled. Does THAT make sense to you? Would you want to send your child to a severely overcrowded school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the post a while back about the person who bought a cheaper bigger house in another neighborhood because they were already set for their kids to attend the center rubs me the wrong way after the fight we just endured. The only people who have an absolute right to be in any school are the ones in that district (yes, I realize lines do change from time to time). In the overcrowding situation at GBW, the center was the issue, and it needed to be remedied. If you bought in another neighborhood and expected that your kids have a right to attend another school, you are wrong. If it is absolutely critically important that your children must attend one school only, please buy as close to that school as possible within the boundary line.

The person IS in the boundary line. They are in the center boundary. Sure, it could change same as a base boundary can change. I'm not sure why you think it's ok for one parent to buy within a specific boundary but not the other. Both are in boundary (different boundary criteria). You seem to think it's your kid's school and her kid is a guest. Guess what. . . It's her kid's school too! Your attitude is part of the problem.