When is the plan for new HS programs coming out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I’d like to know is whether it was taken down because there was an error or something that needed to fix, or whether they saw this thread and don’t want us to have the info for some reason. I have my guesses.

I mean, it's going to be out tomorrow anyway, so I'm not sure they'd be that concerned about a difference of a few days in people seeing it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure these are the regions:

BCC
Blair
Einstein
Northwood
Whitman

Churchill
WJ
Wheaton
Woodward

Crown
Gaithersburg
Northwest
Seneca Valley
Watkins Mill

Blake
Paint Branch
Springwood
Sherwood

Kennedy
Magruder
RM
Rockville
Wootton

Clarksburg
Damascus
Poolesville
QO

I saw the document before it was taken down and this matches it. BUT don’t forget this could change. Unlikely but possible. And also, don’t forget that many of us do not know what our zoned option even is yet. Depending on how the boundary study shakes out I’d be in different regions.

In the document it said that some programs would be criteria based and others interest based, as they are now. There was no mention of a lottery and the poster who assumed that could not have based it on anything. I am not positive but I think something in the document referred to sorting out admissions criteria and process. Obviously they will need to figure that out, and will it be done by each individual program as it is now, or centrally?

I personally think they are potentially overestimating how many students want to enter a special program for high school. I think the allure of some of the top programs right now is cohort and established excellence, not the narrow focus or specialty itself. I agree with the PP who said lumping this together with the boundary study is muddying a lot of details. I’m concerned they are going to scale up a lot of these programs in places where they will either be over or under subscribed because people haven’t sorted whether their zoned option suits their needs. It’s also hard to know as an 8th grader what high school courses or pathways you will want or need and very little help is given to families to plan this out at all.

I agree with you. Most kids want to go to their neighborhood school and would if it were strong. That’s where they should focus their energy.

I agree. Strong, comprehensive neighborhood schools with a broad range of electives. The program focus sucks resources, complicates transportation, and administration, and only benefits a small number of kids

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What I’d like to know is whether it was taken down because there was an error or something that needed to fix, or whether they saw this thread and don’t want us to have the info for some reason. I have my guesses.

I mean, it's going to be out tomorrow anyway, so I'm not sure they'd be that concerned about a difference of a few days in people seeing it?

+1. Probably just correcting an error

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of students at the relevant schools are in the magnets/programs?

It depends on the school. At PHS, it's a huge percentage because the school would be undersubscribed otherwise. At Blair, a lower percentage because it's a large school even without the magnet program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of students at the relevant schools are in the magnets/programs?

It depends on the school. At PHS, it's a huge percentage because the school would be undersubscribed otherwise. At Blair, a lower percentage because it's a large school even without the magnet program.

What is it at Blair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of students at the relevant schools are in the magnets/programs?

It depends on the school. At PHS, it's a huge percentage because the school would be undersubscribed otherwise. At Blair, a lower percentage because it's a large school even without the magnet program.

What is it at Blair?

~400 magnet students out of 3300 total

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ETA: and the Blair and RM parents who are complaining about the quality of the program declining if it becomes regional are horrible snobs. Your gifted kid can learn with other gifted local kids! They don’t have to be with only gifted kids from all around the whole county! Give me a break. So snobby!

Is MOP snobby?

The quality of the program would definitely decline if, instead of taking top 100 kids it took the top 1000. It’s already a very tough, challenging program that only the top third or so truly excel in. Expanding without reducing the standards will just set some kids up for failure or more likely dilute the program.

You're assuming that the 100 kids in the program are the top and would forever be. You are also assume there is not another 900 kids who could/would succeed in such program if the seats and program structure were available.

DP - yes. I don't really understand the elitist attitude at all. My children are younger, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I always hear that MCPS is great if you can take full advantage of the magnets. But then that's a major caveat, because middle school magnets are lottery based and high school magnets are very, very selective. We should be serving more qualified children.

For the parents who are endorsing the Blair magnet and the RM IB program (for example) as they are, is it because your kids already got in? Or are you really not worried about your younger children making the cut? I am a little baffled.

Maybe they need to build more magnets but not restrict by regions. So a magnet won’t be just selecting students from 5 high schools. That certainly dilutes the magnet program cohorts.

There are plenty of students in each region to support programs. The deck even showed this.

What did the deck show about this? -DP

That there are students in all the regions with high GPAs and involved in specialized programs. There is also reporting done each year to show that there are kids in alls schools taking advance classes. So quit it with your chicken little mentality or scarcity mentality.

Another DP. While there may be plenty of students in each region to support programs, are there plenty of program seats in each region to support students? That would be the more important question.

And while there are kids in all schools taking advanced classes, there clearly have not been the same breadth and levels of advanced classes available at all schools for students to take. Again, the latter bit is the much more important point, but one that MCPS typically would hide by using the wording of the former.

The scarcity claims are valid unless MCPS can show that, on an individual basis, the options for school attendance (magnet, consortia, in-bounds school or some other) and program/class availability that reasonably might be expected (not just possible) are

roughly equivalent no matter where one lives

and

consistent with the academic need of said individual.

There are kids at all schools capable but not all kids are taking advanced classes as the schools don’t offer them. They try to force the kids to Mc. Of course pre one BOE member works there and her job is liaison to MCPS so huge conflict of interest.

Which school are you talking about? Einstein has AP Bio, AP Chem, APES, AP Phys, AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP USH, AP World…. That seems like advanced classes to me. No multivariable that is true but saying a school doesn’t offer advanced classes when it offers all these plus IB is not true. Do you mean a different school?

There is no ap bio or chem. There is no multi variable or linear algebra. There are zero science ap. Two science teachers left this year.

Which school?

Einstein.

Oh interesting. So their website says that they offer all the AP science classes. That is not reality?

You have to look at the course guide for that year not the website. No it’s not true. We looked at the website when picking it for our first kid and it was misleading. They don’t offer a lot of what they say they do. Principal says he picks and chooses not to. He claims not enough interest but the guidance counselor’s actively discourage kids from taking advanced math and science except foreign language which they push.

+1 can't go by what's published on the website. You have to look at the school specific website.

Not sure which website the PPs are looking at, but the Einstein science department page clearly shows they offer IB classes rather than AP.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/einsteinhs/departments/science/

That is what I am confused about too. No multivariable but a lot of advanced classes. Do they offer and then not run them?

You are looking at the mcps guide. That’s different from the school guide. The principal decides what classes are offered and he chooses not to offer them. They heavily limit who can take bc and only offer one class. No science ap. They may have had it in the past but not now.

Longtime Einstein parent here. Yes, in the past Einstein had both IB and AP science classes, but they found they did not have enough interested students to populate both classes, so shifted to only IB. As an IB school, they need to continue offering IB classes in all the areas.

They do, they just discourage it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ETA: and the Blair and RM parents who are complaining about the quality of the program declining if it becomes regional are horrible snobs. Your gifted kid can learn with other gifted local kids! They don’t have to be with only gifted kids from all around the whole county! Give me a break. So snobby!

Is MOP snobby?

The quality of the program would definitely decline if, instead of taking top 100 kids it took the top 1000. It’s already a very tough, challenging program that only the top third or so truly excel in. Expanding without reducing the standards will just set some kids up for failure or more likely dilute the program.

You're assuming that the 100 kids in the program are the top and would forever be. You are also assume there is not another 900 kids who could/would succeed in such program if the seats and program structure were available.

DP - yes. I don't really understand the elitist attitude at all. My children are younger, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I always hear that MCPS is great if you can take full advantage of the magnets. But then that's a major caveat, because middle school magnets are lottery based and high school magnets are very, very selective. We should be serving more qualified children.

For the parents who are endorsing the Blair magnet and the RM IB program (for example) as they are, is it because your kids already got in? Or are you really not worried about your younger children making the cut? I am a little baffled.

Maybe they need to build more magnets but not restrict by regions. So a magnet won’t be just selecting students from 5 high schools. That certainly dilutes the magnet program cohorts.

There are plenty of students in each region to support programs. The deck even showed this.

What did the deck show about this? -DP

That there are students in all the regions with high GPAs and involved in specialized programs. There is also reporting done each year to show that there are kids in alls schools taking advance classes. So quit it with your chicken little mentality or scarcity mentality.

Another DP. While there may be plenty of students in each region to support programs, are there plenty of program seats in each region to support students? That would be the more important question.

And while there are kids in all schools taking advanced classes, there clearly have not been the same breadth and levels of advanced classes available at all schools for students to take. Again, the latter bit is the much more important point, but one that MCPS typically would hide by using the wording of the former.

The scarcity claims are valid unless MCPS can show that, on an individual basis, the options for school attendance (magnet, consortia, in-bounds school or some other) and program/class availability that reasonably might be expected (not just possible) are

roughly equivalent no matter where one lives

and

consistent with the academic need of said individual.

There are kids at all schools capable but not all kids are taking advanced classes as the schools don’t offer them. They try to force the kids to Mc. Of course pre one BOE member works there and her job is liaison to MCPS so huge conflict of interest.

Which school are you talking about? Einstein has AP Bio, AP Chem, APES, AP Phys, AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP USH, AP World…. That seems like advanced classes to me. No multivariable that is true but saying a school doesn’t offer advanced classes when it offers all these plus IB is not true. Do you mean a different school?

There is no ap bio or chem. There is no multi variable or linear algebra. There are zero science ap. Two science teachers left this year.

Which school?

Einstein.

Oh interesting. So their website says that they offer all the AP science classes. That is not reality?

You have to look at the course guide for that year not the website. No it’s not true. We looked at the website when picking it for our first kid and it was misleading. They don’t offer a lot of what they say they do. Principal says he picks and chooses not to. He claims not enough interest but the guidance counselor’s actively discourage kids from taking advanced math and science except foreign language which they push.

+1 can't go by what's published on the website. You have to look at the school specific website.

Not sure which website the PPs are looking at, but the Einstein science department page clearly shows they offer IB classes rather than AP.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/einsteinhs/departments/science/

That is what I am confused about too. No multivariable but a lot of advanced classes. Do they offer and then not run them?

You are looking at the mcps guide. That’s different from the school guide. The principal decides what classes are offered and he chooses not to offer them. They heavily limit who can take bc and only offer one class. No science ap. They may have had it in the past but not now.

Longtime Einstein parent here. Yes, in the past Einstein had both IB and AP science classes, but they found they did not have enough interested students to populate both classes, so shifted to only IB. As an IB school, they need to continue offering IB classes in all the areas.

And this is an important point for the program analysis — if your school is IB there may not be as much demand for AP classes, so you may have more limited options. Students assigned to an IB school inbounds might do better to switch to another school in the region if they want to do just AP.

It’s near impossible to cosa. We tried.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of students at the relevant schools are in the magnets/programs?

The better question is how many students want and would qualify and are turned down, especially at schools without diverse offerings.

I don’t think that’s a better question.

But what’s the answer to the original question? Bc it seems like the magnets are just a distraction and frankly a potential hoarding of resources.

No, they aren’t as students at thise schools can also take the classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I’d like to know is whether it was taken down because there was an error or something that needed to fix, or whether they saw this thread and don’t want us to have the info for some reason. I have my guesses.

It came down shortly after someone posted it here. It’s definitely because they didn’t want us to see it. Maybe there was an error too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ETA: and the Blair and RM parents who are complaining about the quality of the program declining if it becomes regional are horrible snobs. Your gifted kid can learn with other gifted local kids! They don’t have to be with only gifted kids from all around the whole county! Give me a break. So snobby!

Is MOP snobby?

The quality of the program would definitely decline if, instead of taking top 100 kids it took the top 1000. It’s already a very tough, challenging program that only the top third or so truly excel in. Expanding without reducing the standards will just set some kids up for failure or more likely dilute the program.

You're assuming that the 100 kids in the program are the top and would forever be. You are also assume there is not another 900 kids who could/would succeed in such program if the seats and program structure were available.

DP - yes. I don't really understand the elitist attitude at all. My children are younger, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I always hear that MCPS is great if you can take full advantage of the magnets. But then that's a major caveat, because middle school magnets are lottery based and high school magnets are very, very selective. We should be serving more qualified children.

For the parents who are endorsing the Blair magnet and the RM IB program (for example) as they are, is it because your kids already got in? Or are you really not worried about your younger children making the cut? I am a little baffled.

Maybe they need to build more magnets but not restrict by regions. So a magnet won’t be just selecting students from 5 high schools. That certainly dilutes the magnet program cohorts.

There are plenty of students in each region to support programs. The deck even showed this.

What did the deck show about this? -DP

That there are students in all the regions with high GPAs and involved in specialized programs. There is also reporting done each year to show that there are kids in alls schools taking advance classes. So quit it with your chicken little mentality or scarcity mentality.

Another DP. While there may be plenty of students in each region to support programs, are there plenty of program seats in each region to support students? That would be the more important question.

And while there are kids in all schools taking advanced classes, there clearly have not been the same breadth and levels of advanced classes available at all schools for students to take. Again, the latter bit is the much more important point, but one that MCPS typically would hide by using the wording of the former.

The scarcity claims are valid unless MCPS can show that, on an individual basis, the options for school attendance (magnet, consortia, in-bounds school or some other) and program/class availability that reasonably might be expected (not just possible) are

roughly equivalent no matter where one lives

and

consistent with the academic need of said individual.

There are kids at all schools capable but not all kids are taking advanced classes as the schools don’t offer them. They try to force the kids to Mc. Of course pre one BOE member works there and her job is liaison to MCPS so huge conflict of interest.

Which school are you talking about? Einstein has AP Bio, AP Chem, APES, AP Phys, AP Calc BC, AP Stats, AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Gov, AP USH, AP World…. That seems like advanced classes to me. No multivariable that is true but saying a school doesn’t offer advanced classes when it offers all these plus IB is not true. Do you mean a different school?

There is no ap bio or chem. There is no multi variable or linear algebra. There are zero science ap. Two science teachers left this year.

Which school?

Einstein.

Oh interesting. So their website says that they offer all the AP science classes. That is not reality?

You have to look at the course guide for that year not the website. No it’s not true. We looked at the website when picking it for our first kid and it was misleading. They don’t offer a lot of what they say they do. Principal says he picks and chooses not to. He claims not enough interest but the guidance counselor’s actively discourage kids from taking advanced math and science except foreign language which they push.

+1 can't go by what's published on the website. You have to look at the school specific website.

Not sure which website the PPs are looking at, but the Einstein science department page clearly shows they offer IB classes rather than AP.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/einsteinhs/departments/science/

That is what I am confused about too. No multivariable but a lot of advanced classes. Do they offer and then not run them?

You are looking at the mcps guide. That’s different from the school guide. The principal decides what classes are offered and he chooses not to offer them. They heavily limit who can take bc and only offer one class. No science ap. They may have had it in the past but not now.

Longtime Einstein parent here. Yes, in the past Einstein had both IB and AP science classes, but they found they did not have enough interested students to populate both classes, so shifted to only IB. As an IB school, they need to continue offering IB classes in all the areas.

And this is an important point for the program analysis — if your school is IB there may not be as much demand for AP classes, so you may have more limited options. Students assigned to an IB school inbounds might do better to switch to another school in the region if they want to do just AP.

It’s near impossible to cosa. We tried.

I think the PP was referring to switching to another school via the still-being-formed regional model. It's not at all clear that there would be any means to switch schools without applying to and being accepted into a special program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of students at the relevant schools are in the magnets/programs?

It depends on the school. At PHS, it's a huge percentage because the school would be undersubscribed otherwise. At Blair, a lower percentage because it's a large school even without the magnet program.

What is it at Blair?

~400 magnet students out of 3300 total

so there are 400 kids in the magnet at Blair, and those kids come from all of the DCC schools? Is that correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of students at the relevant schools are in the magnets/programs?

It depends on the school. At PHS, it's a huge percentage because the school would be undersubscribed otherwise. At Blair, a lower percentage because it's a large school even without the magnet program.

What is it at Blair?

~400 magnet students out of 3300 total

so there are 400 kids in the magnet at Blair, and those kids come from all of the DCC schools? Is that correct?

No, the Blair magnet students come from any of the following clusters:
Bethesda-Chevy Chase, Winston Churchill, Walter Johnson, Richard Montgomery, Rockville, Sherwood, Walt Whitman, Thomas S. Wootton, Northeast Consortium (NEC)- Paint Branch, Springbrook, Blake, and Downcounty Consortium (DCC) – Blair, Einstein, Northwood, Kennedy, Wheaton

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of students at the relevant schools are in the magnets/programs?

The better question is how many students want and would qualify and are turned down, especially at schools without diverse offerings.

I don’t think that’s a better question.

But what’s the answer to the original question? Bc it seems like the magnets are just a distraction and frankly a potential hoarding of resources.

No, they aren’t as students at thise schools can also take the classes.

but do they? It would seem like they wouldn't have much extra space in those classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What percentage of students at the relevant schools are in the magnets/programs?

It depends on the school. At PHS, it's a huge percentage because the school would be undersubscribed otherwise. At Blair, a lower percentage because it's a large school even without the magnet program.

What is it at Blair?

~400 magnet students out of 3300 total

so there are 400 kids in the magnet at Blair, and those kids come from all of the DCC schools? Is that correct?

No, the Blair magnet students come from any of the following clusters:
Bethesda-Chevy Chase, Winston Churchill, Walter Johnson, Richard Montgomery, Rockville, Sherwood, Walt Whitman, Thomas S. Wootton, Northeast Consortium (NEC)- Paint Branch, Springbrook, Blake, and Downcounty Consortium (DCC) – Blair, Einstein, Northwood, Kennedy, Wheaton

thank you.