Did anyone's kid choose quality of life/social factors over prestige?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC is committed to UVA (out of state and chose over Berkeley, Michigan, Northwestern and a few others) and very excited about it but about 10 days ago got off the waitlists for SEAS at both Penn and Columbia. DC was given roughly 2 weeks to decide by each school because of pending financial aid (we receive(d) a minimal amount as we have 2 older kids in college).
DC really wants to stick with UVA because they believe it will be a more enjoyable, well-rounded. classic college experience.
Major is uncertain but probably statistics/data science or economics. DC applied to different majors at each school and I'm not actually sure what.

What would you do as a parent in this situation? All the schools will end up costing about the same (roughly $75K/year give or take).
Did your kid make a similar choice?

Where does he/she want to work? What industry or career?
How far from you (flights etc)?
How important is Greek life and sports?

-we're in Columbia, MD.
-Greek life is very important or so she says now (without experiencing it)
-sports don't have to be high level (declined Michigan although clearly the sports are better there) but is the kind of kid who will go to the football games, basketball games, soccer games, ice hockey games for the social aspect regardless of how bad the teams are
-wants to probably live on the East coast (big reason for declining Berkeley), probably either in consulting or finance or tech

Normally, I'd say go to UVA if that's where she's feeling it. There isn't a huge overall difference in prestige between UVA, Penn, and Columbia. But when you say she wants to go into consulting, finance, or tech, that changes things. Penn is significantly above UVA when it comes to recruitment for finance or consulting. Not just from Wharton, but from Arts and Sciences as well. Penn would be hard to pass up if she's committed to pursuing a career in either finance or consulting. But yes, not as much fun as UVA. A conundrum. But there are worse problems to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn > UVA. It's not close. I would only do it to save $ with instate tuition but you do you.

Simply not true.

When WSJ listed alumni earnings by field, Penn was above UVA in every category. In fact, WSJ separated public and private schools into two different listings because if they combined them, the public schools, with only a few exceptions, would not have been high enough to make a combined list of 20.

[Anonymous]

DC chose Pomona over UChicago. No regrets so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

OP said her kid "wants to probably live on the East coast (big reason for declining Berkeley), probably either in consulting or finance or tech"

If that is a major issue for OP and her kid, Penn will offer far more professional opportunities due solely to the number of successful alums who have founded hedge funds and boutique PE, Investment Banks and other companies and basically only recruit at Penn (lots of Wharton, but they like SEAS too).

They each don't hire that many kids, but when you add them all up it comes to a fairly large number.

UVA has the equivalent on a smaller scale, and yes all the large finance companies recruit at UVA as well as Penn.

Baloney. UVA has a strong presence in NYC and the school is very well respected there.

You literally didn't even read the post. This is about boutique financial firms founded by Penn alums that basically only recruit at Penn.

UVA probably has some, but on a smaller scale.

This had nothing to do with "respect" or a strong presence or not in NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

OP said her kid "wants to probably live on the East coast (big reason for declining Berkeley), probably either in consulting or finance or tech"

If that is a major issue for OP and her kid, Penn will offer far more professional opportunities due solely to the number of successful alums who have founded hedge funds and boutique PE, Investment Banks and other companies and basically only recruit at Penn (lots of Wharton, but they like SEAS too).

They each don't hire that many kids, but when you add them all up it comes to a fairly large number.

UVA has the equivalent on a smaller scale, and yes all the large finance companies recruit at UVA as well as Penn.

Baloney. UVA has a strong presence in NYC and the school is very well respected there.

You literally didn't even read the post. This is about boutique financial firms founded by Penn alums that basically only recruit at Penn.

UVA probably has some, but on a smaller scale.

This had nothing to do with "respect" or a strong presence or not in NYC.

You are two steps down the road. If she was that hard core finance she would have applied to Wharton at Penn.

Choosing a school based on something that narrow, particularly when interests are likely to change and/or the job market is likely to be completely different is really, really getting in the weeds when you are talking about schools that in the grand scheme of things are very close together.

But it makes people feel really smart to try to act like they are experts on such things, including getting jobs in boutique firms on Wall Street. Written from NYC as I am headed to lunch with a friend who went to a random state school no one here would even consider and now works at one of those boutique firms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC chose Pomona over UChicago. No regrets so far.

Is this a joke? Equally prestigious and resourced schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

OP said her kid "wants to probably live on the East coast (big reason for declining Berkeley), probably either in consulting or finance or tech"

If that is a major issue for OP and her kid, Penn will offer far more professional opportunities due solely to the number of successful alums who have founded hedge funds and boutique PE, Investment Banks and other companies and basically only recruit at Penn (lots of Wharton, but they like SEAS too).

They each don't hire that many kids, but when you add them all up it comes to a fairly large number.

UVA has the equivalent on a smaller scale, and yes all the large finance companies recruit at UVA as well as Penn.

Baloney. UVA has a strong presence in NYC and the school is very well respected there.

You literally didn't even read the post. This is about boutique financial firms founded by Penn alums that basically only recruit at Penn.

UVA probably has some, but on a smaller scale.

This had nothing to do with "respect" or a strong presence or not in NYC.

Don’t even bother, the rabid UVA supporter(s) can’t process that there is a difference between recruiting from Ivy League schools and UVA. They will argue to the contrary til the cows come home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference between the schools is going to be in resources. Penn and Columbia have a 6 to 1 student/professor ratio, UVA 14 to 1. Advising resources will also be better. On site recruiting will be better due to the way companies rank the schools.

As an oos family will be paying the same price for all three.

The only way these schools get to 6 to 1 ratios is by counting faculty that largely don't teach (primarily research) and aren't in areas that touch undergraduates (medical). It is another example of optimizing data for USNWR rankings.

The same holds true for UVA’s 14 to 1, so we are still comparing apples to apples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

OP said her kid "wants to probably live on the East coast (big reason for declining Berkeley), probably either in consulting or finance or tech"

If that is a major issue for OP and her kid, Penn will offer far more professional opportunities due solely to the number of successful alums who have founded hedge funds and boutique PE, Investment Banks and other companies and basically only recruit at Penn (lots of Wharton, but they like SEAS too).

They each don't hire that many kids, but when you add them all up it comes to a fairly large number.

UVA has the equivalent on a smaller scale, and yes all the large finance companies recruit at UVA as well as Penn.

Baloney. UVA has a strong presence in NYC and the school is very well respected there.

You literally didn't even read the post. This is about boutique financial firms founded by Penn alums that basically only recruit at Penn.

UVA probably has some, but on a smaller scale.

This had nothing to do with "respect" or a strong presence or not in NYC.

Don’t even bother, the rabid UVA supporter(s) can’t process that there is a difference between recruiting from Ivy League schools and UVA. They will argue to the contrary til the cows come home.

I’m not arguing that there isn’t a difference. I’m arguing that it’s not so meaningful that it should be the sole criteria or even primary criteria when deciding which school to attend, especially for a student with the personality/interests
that OP has described.

She’s not choosing between Wharton and Temple with an eye towards NYC. She’s choosing between Penn/non-Wharton and UVA, a school that NYC families are banging the doors down to enroll their kids. And, as I have said before, we’re talking about a kid who has already turned down Northwestern. Obviously she’s a smart - and outgoing - kid who we can reasonably predict will likely graduate closer to the top of the class than the bottom. If she wants NYC, it will be available to her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn > UVA. It's not close. I would only do it to save $ with instate tuition but you do you.

Simply not true.

For business it is.

Wharton School of Business.

I don't even know the name of UVA's business school.
I've lived in NOVA 25 years.
I have a business school degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn > UVA. It's not close. I would only do it to save $ with instate tuition but you do you.

Simply not true.

For business it is.

Wharton School of Business.

I don't even know the name of UVA's business school.
I've lived in NOVA 25 years.
I have a business school degree.

That says more about you than UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

OP said her kid "wants to probably live on the East coast (big reason for declining Berkeley), probably either in consulting or finance or tech"

If that is a major issue for OP and her kid, Penn will offer far more professional opportunities due solely to the number of successful alums who have founded hedge funds and boutique PE, Investment Banks and other companies and basically only recruit at Penn (lots of Wharton, but they like SEAS too).

They each don't hire that many kids, but when you add them all up it comes to a fairly large number.

UVA has the equivalent on a smaller scale, and yes all the large finance companies recruit at UVA as well as Penn.

Baloney. UVA has a strong presence in NYC and the school is very well respected there.

You literally didn't even read the post. This is about boutique financial firms founded by Penn alums that basically only recruit at Penn.

UVA probably has some, but on a smaller scale.

This had nothing to do with "respect" or a strong presence or not in NYC.

Don’t even bother, the rabid UVA supporter(s) can’t process that there is a difference between recruiting from Ivy League schools and UVA. They will argue to the contrary til the cows come home.

I’m not arguing that there isn’t a difference. I’m arguing that it’s not so meaningful that it should be the sole criteria or even primary criteria when deciding which school to attend, especially for a student with the personality/interests
that OP has described.

She’s not choosing between Wharton and Temple with an eye towards NYC. She’s choosing between Penn/non-Wharton and UVA, a school that NYC families are banging the doors down to enroll their kids. And, as I have said before, we’re talking about a kid who has already turned down Northwestern. Obviously she’s a smart - and outgoing - kid who we can reasonably predict will likely graduate closer to the top of the class than the bottom. If she wants NYC, it will be available to her.

Penn SEAS grads are highly coveted…that’s what we are talking about (vs CAS) grads.

BTW she can do an uncoordinated dual degree fairly easily with Wharton if she decides to do that after freshman year.

NYC families are banging down the doors at lots of schools…including UPenn…so not sure what that matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

It is, 100% a tier above but that does not make Penn a good fit for this student. From all OP has said, UVA is the fit here. Fit matters more than recruiting. The two schools are vastly different: i have a current Penn seas and a recent UVA grad(stem but not engineering). The UVA kid would have drowned at Penn. That DC got top internships at UVA compared to other uva students and ivy students were some of the people at one of the internships. Now of course they did not get in to ivies(they did get into Michigan and ucla but picked uva). My penn seas DD would not fit at all at UVA nor would most of her Penn friends.
Know your kid OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Penn > UVA. It's not close. I would only do it to save $ with instate tuition but you do you.

Simply not true.

For business it is.

Wharton School of Business.

I don't even know the name of UVA's business school.
I've lived in NOVA 25 years.
I have a business school degree.

I admire your vulnerability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

OP said her kid "wants to probably live on the East coast (big reason for declining Berkeley), probably either in consulting or finance or tech"

If that is a major issue for OP and her kid, Penn will offer far more professional opportunities due solely to the number of successful alums who have founded hedge funds and boutique PE, Investment Banks and other companies and basically only recruit at Penn (lots of Wharton, but they like SEAS too).

They each don't hire that many kids, but when you add them all up it comes to a fairly large number.

UVA has the equivalent on a smaller scale, and yes all the large finance companies recruit at UVA as well as Penn.

Baloney. UVA has a strong presence in NYC and the school is very well respected there.

You literally didn't even read the post. This is about boutique financial firms founded by Penn alums that basically only recruit at Penn.

UVA probably has some, but on a smaller scale.

This had nothing to do with "respect" or a strong presence or not in NYC.

Don’t even bother, the rabid UVA supporter(s) can’t process that there is a difference between recruiting from Ivy League schools and UVA. They will argue to the contrary til the cows come home.

I’m not arguing that there isn’t a difference. I’m arguing that it’s not so meaningful that it should be the sole criteria or even primary criteria when deciding which school to attend, especially for a student with the personality/interests
that OP has described.

She’s not choosing between Wharton and Temple with an eye towards NYC. She’s choosing between Penn/non-Wharton and UVA, a school that NYC families are banging the doors down to enroll their kids. And, as I have said before, we’re talking about a kid who has already turned down Northwestern. Obviously she’s a smart - and outgoing - kid who we can reasonably predict will likely graduate closer to the top of the class than the bottom. If she wants NYC, it will be available to her.

Penn SEAS grads are highly coveted…that’s what we are talking about (vs CAS) grads.

BTW she can do an uncoordinated dual degree fairly easily with Wharton if she decides to do that after freshman year.

NYC families are banging down the doors at lots of schools…including UPenn…so not sure what that matters.

UVA grads do just fine in NYC too. That’s the point. There’s plenty of room for them as well.

Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Wellesley and UVA hold joint admissions sessions every year.

https://apply.princeton.edu/portal/upcoming_virtualevents?id=139c44b9-9087-4e92-80a5-40233a22518d

Yale and UVA share the same club facilities in NYC.

https://www.yaleclubnyc.org/affiliates/uva

Clearly the Ivy League itself doesn’t consider UVA to be Podunk U.