Did anyone's kid choose quality of life/social factors over prestige?

[Anonymous]

Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:In this case the schools are largely the same so prestige doesn't matter so the child can choose the more social school without sacrificing academics and prestige.

But in other cases one has to consider the peer group. The other kids might be "fun" but will your kid have a lot in common with them? Will these kids go on to do the same level of things that grads of the higher ranked schools do? For many of us, our college friends are our lifelong friend group and network.

Basically this. The peer group is important. UVA students, like many other state school students, are 2/3rds from one state. That by definition means a weaker peer group than an Ivy.

If you’re a desperate striver you should definitely approach it this way. If you’re more of a normal person, you’ll likely realize that these differences are not major at these types of schools, as they all attract strong kids.

Finally, someone who appears to have a functioning brain! A minor difference in rank or average SAT scores is far less significant than the other differences having to do with location, attitudes, distractions, etc.

NP, think the point is less about the minor differences and more about the peer group. I think UVA is wonderful. Live in a state with another top public of same or better caliber. There is a difference, the campuses and pulse feel vastly different. I can easily see why someone would have a strong preference for one or another.

Of course, but there was a PP in this chain that mentioned that “peer group is important” because UVA peer group is “weaker.” But that difference is so minor. The other things you mentioned are much more meaningful.

Yes, but some of that is the peer group strength. Kind of like if a public’s honor college was the entire campus it would change how it felt and moved.

But that’s not the difference here. The difference between a public honors college and the rest of the student body can be very large—hundreds of points on the SAT. The difference between UVA and Columbia is much smaller—80 points in the median SAT for the 23-24 CDS, and that’s with UVA reporting 50% versus 40% for Columbia. There is a small difference but it isn’t significant, nor would you necessarily notice it relative to other factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

[Anonymous]

Penn > UVA. It's not close. I would only do it to save $ with instate tuition but you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this case the schools are largely the same so prestige doesn't matter so the child can choose the more social school without sacrificing academics and prestige.

But in other cases one has to consider the peer group. The other kids might be "fun" but will your kid have a lot in common with them? Will these kids go on to do the same level of things that grads of the higher ranked schools do? For many of us, our college friends are our lifelong friend group and network.

Basically this. The peer group is important. UVA students, like many other state school students, are 2/3rds from one state. That by definition means a weaker peer group than an Ivy.

If you’re a desperate striver you should definitely approach it this way. If you’re more of a normal person, you’ll likely realize that these differences are not major at these types of schools, as they all attract strong kids.

Finally, someone who appears to have a functioning brain! A minor difference in rank or average SAT scores is far less significant than the other differences having to do with location, attitudes, distractions, etc.

NP, think the point is less about the minor differences and more about the peer group. I think UVA is wonderful. Live in a state with another top public of same or better caliber. There is a difference, the campuses and pulse feel vastly different. I can easily see why someone would have a strong preference for one or another.

Of course, but there was a PP in this chain that mentioned that “peer group is important” because UVA peer group is “weaker.” But that difference is so minor. The other things you mentioned are much more meaningful.

Yes, but some of that is the peer group strength. Kind of like if a public’s honor college was the entire campus it would change how it felt and moved.

But that’s not the difference here. The difference between a public honors college and the rest of the student body can be very large—hundreds of points on the SAT. The difference between UVA and Columbia is much smaller—80 points in the median SAT for the 23-24 CDS, and that’s with UVA reporting 50% versus 40% for Columbia. There is a small difference but it isn’t significant, nor would you necessarily notice it relative to other factors.

I’m not talking about test scores, maybe I’m articulating myself poorly. I just mean the campus vibe is more serious. It feels different. All of the ivies and T10’s we visited had a current through them. I do not feel that on large flagships. It’s a bit breezier and fun. I think choosing what fits for a kid is important, one is not better than another.

[Anonymous]

The difference between the schools is going to be in resources. Penn and Columbia have a 6 to 1 student/professor ratio, UVA 14 to 1. Advising resources will also be better. On site recruiting will be better due to the way companies rank the schools.

As an oos family will be paying the same price for all three.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference between the schools is going to be in resources. Penn and Columbia have a 6 to 1 student/professor ratio, UVA 14 to 1. Advising resources will also be better. On site recruiting will be better due to the way companies rank the schools.

As an oos family will be paying the same price for all three.

Most undergraduates don’t spend a lot of time slobbering over their professors. At UVA, professors are there when you need them. That’s all that matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

This. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Penn > UVA. It's not close. I would only do it to save $ with instate tuition but you do you.

Simply not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

OP said her kid "wants to probably live on the East coast (big reason for declining Berkeley), probably either in consulting or finance or tech"

If that is a major issue for OP and her kid, Penn will offer far more professional opportunities due solely to the number of successful alums who have founded hedge funds and boutique PE, Investment Banks and other companies and basically only recruit at Penn (lots of Wharton, but they like SEAS too).

They each don't hire that many kids, but when you add them all up it comes to a fairly large number.

UVA has the equivalent on a smaller scale, and yes all the large finance companies recruit at UVA as well as Penn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others that it is amazing that there are this many pages nitpicking the differences between these schools. In the grand scheme of things they are basically the same and personal fit should drive the decision.

Anyone who thinks they are such an expert that they can analyze nuanced differences, particularly with regard to a person they don't know, knows nothing.

There have been several posters in the fields op’s dd is interested in who have said Penn is considered a tier above uva in recruiting.

And that’s not surprising, but OP’s kid is more likely to shine at UVA than at Penn and that should erase the difference. A strong student at UVA has as many doors open to her as any school anywhere.

OP said her kid "wants to probably live on the East coast (big reason for declining Berkeley), probably either in consulting or finance or tech"

If that is a major issue for OP and her kid, Penn will offer far more professional opportunities due solely to the number of successful alums who have founded hedge funds and boutique PE, Investment Banks and other companies and basically only recruit at Penn (lots of Wharton, but they like SEAS too).

They each don't hire that many kids, but when you add them all up it comes to a fairly large number.

UVA has the equivalent on a smaller scale, and yes all the large finance companies recruit at UVA as well as Penn.

Baloney. UVA has a strong presence in NYC and the school is very well respected there.

[Anonymous]

Has OP come back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference between the schools is going to be in resources. Penn and Columbia have a 6 to 1 student/professor ratio, UVA 14 to 1. Advising resources will also be better. On site recruiting will be better due to the way companies rank the schools.

As an oos family will be paying the same price for all three.

The only way these schools get to 6 to 1 ratios is by counting faculty that largely don't teach (primarily research) and aren't in areas that touch undergraduates (medical). It is another example of optimizing data for USNWR rankings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference between the schools is going to be in resources. Penn and Columbia have a 6 to 1 student/professor ratio, UVA 14 to 1. Advising resources will also be better. On site recruiting will be better due to the way companies rank the schools.

As an oos family will be paying the same price for all three.

The only way these schools get to 6 to 1 ratios is by counting faculty that largely don't teach (primarily research) and aren't in areas that touch undergraduates (medical). It is another example of optimizing data for USNWR rankings.

Truth. Thank you.