the Atlantic: The Elite College Students Who Can't Read Books

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

I read it in high school and hated it. My friends invented some in-jokes off of it and that was the best part.

Spoiler. There's a wack job who murders an old lady and that's basically the only interesting scene in 300 pages. The rest is a bunch of dull policing and OP having recriminations and delirious sweats.

And I liked Moby Dick even though it has tons of filler. So it's not that I can't handle a bit of tedium with my great literature.

The great Russian novels should be left for college.

Not true at all. He didn't murder one lady; there is a lot of romance etc. This is what people who haven't read the book think.

I read it all. Pre-1900s romance is boooooring. I had to become middle-aged to understand how Pride & Prejudice could be romantic. C&P is an unhappy, depressing book all the way through.

The fact that you think it's boring just shows you haven't trained your mind to understand it. This is why when people say "Who cares what kids read, just let them read!" I always flinch. Minds and character are for training, and what you read will train you. Start reading the good stuff and you'll be able to read the harder, longer good stuff when you're older.

It’s all just taste and opinion.

You sound like someone that also believes that you should only listen to classical music and opera.

Why not just accept people like what they like and don’t like what they don’t like and move on.

People might think I'm dumb if I don't say how much I love things that people say are smart.

When's the last time one of these uber readers on DCUM posted a comment, on any topic, that was informed by the content of one these classics they extol?

I recommended Walden on a DCUM book club thread. Can I get a gold star sticker? I need one because I hated C&P and apparently that puts me in the minority here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Atlantic article is scary. I'm guessing a lot of this is due to the short attention span brought on by cellphones and social media.

My kids have screens and phones, and one is a CS major, they built their PCs, and they have read and continue to read tons of literature, go to plays and musicals, create art, etc. etc.

People just make excuses. Your phone and computer don't prevent you from reading a book.

It's not an excuse, it's a factual explanation of something that IS happening. Phones and social media are impacting people's ability to concentrate and pursue other activities. It's not debatable. Whether it applies to you or not doesn't change the fact it is true generally.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

I read it in high school and hated it. My friends invented some in-jokes off of it and that was the best part.

Spoiler. There's a wack job who murders an old lady and that's basically the only interesting scene in 300 pages. The rest is a bunch of dull policing and OP having recriminations and delirious sweats.

And I liked Moby Dick even though it has tons of filler. So it's not that I can't handle a bit of tedium with my great literature.

The great Russian novels should be left for college.

Not true at all. He didn't murder one lady; there is a lot of romance etc. This is what people who haven't read the book think.

I read it all. Pre-1900s romance is boooooring. I had to become middle-aged to understand how Pride & Prejudice could be romantic. C&P is an unhappy, depressing book all the way through.

The fact that you think it's boring just shows you haven't trained your mind to understand it. This is why when people say "Who cares what kids read, just let them read!" I always flinch. Minds and character are for training, and what you read will train you. Start reading the good stuff and you'll be able to read the harder, longer good stuff when you're older.

It’s all just taste and opinion.

You sound like someone that also believes that you should only listen to classical music and opera.

Why not just accept people like what they like and don’t like what they don’t like and move on.

People might think I'm dumb if I don't say how much I love things that people say are smart.

When's the last time one of these uber readers on DCUM posted a comment, on any topic, that was informed by the content of one these classics they extol?

I recommended Walden on a DCUM book club thread. Can I get a gold star sticker? I need one because I hated C&P and apparently that puts me in the minority here.

Don't worry...you are in the 99% majority in real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Atlantic article is scary. I'm guessing a lot of this is due to the short attention span brought on by cellphones and social media.

My kids have screens and phones, and one is a CS major, they built their PCs, and they have read and continue to read tons of literature, go to plays and musicals, create art, etc. etc.

People just make excuses. Your phone and computer don't prevent you from reading a book.

It's not an excuse, it's a factual explanation of something that IS happening. Phones and social media are impacting people's ability to concentrate and pursue other activities. It's not debatable. Whether it applies to you or not doesn't change the fact it is true generally.

Although I'm not a fan of brain rot, I've observed that kids actually do learn things from Youtube. Also Instagram seems to be evolving into a combination fashion magazine and LinkedIn for teens.

My kid's freshman roommate told me he expected my kid to be a weirdo because my kid had near zero social media presence. So he was pleasantly surprised to find that there still are normal people who stay off it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just to interject that there is no right or wrong way to end up as a lying piece of shit:

- SBF hates all books and believes if an author can't communicate their ideas in two paragraphs they are failures

- Caroline Ellison loves books and literature and is now trying to make it as a novelist

They are both frauds and Caroline will now have two years in prison to work on her books.

So, you can be a voracious reader, or despise it entirely...and rest assured you can still end up in the same place.

Yes, very true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is absolutely laughable to claim that today’s great minds of CS are not voracious readers of fiction.

Who has made that exact claim?

You would have us believe that a higher percentage of CS majors are voracious readers of fiction than humanities or social sciences majors?

[Anonymous]

DC goes to MIT and her professor recently grilled the class for believing they could be intelligent while never reading

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is absolutely laughable to claim that today’s great minds of CS are not voracious readers of fiction.

Who has made that exact claim?

You would have us believe that a higher percentage of CS majors are voracious readers of fiction than humanities or social sciences majors?

DP. No skin in this game, but no one made that claim either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC goes to MIT and her professor recently grilled the class for believing they could be intelligent while never reading

I mean this should be obvious to students at MIT. I went to a big state school and there were lots of students there who didn't read much at all but they also didn't aspire to be considered intelligent above other things. But most of them would also have agreed that you need to read a lot to be intelligent. And those of us in the honors college read a lot and believed it helped us become more intelligent.

So if MIT students are having a hard time with this idea, they are worse than stupid. They are stupid AND arrogant. A dangerous combination for someone who also has access to one of the most elite universities in the country and a pathway to a high level career.

We are so screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/

Students at elite universities such as Columbia are showing up to campus unable to read books. They've only read excerpts their entire school career. Many also struggle to write effectively. In response, many Columbia teachers have to water down the curriculum.

My 17 year old daughter reads all the time, she goes through 6-8 books a month for pleasure. She’s a senior and has a heavy course load. Reading is what she likes to do when taking a break. You know what we never let her do? Watch TV with any regularity. And her internet access on her phone was highly controlled with time limits.

The problem isn’t schools, it’s parents unwilling to limit screen time.

It’s too bad you couldn’t teach your child self-discipline.

The girls reads BookTook. It's junk.

[Anonymous]

*BookTalk

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dcs go to a good public high school in the south. Ds has not had to read a book since middle school. Dd has had one book to read for AP English Lit so far, that's it.

One book for AP English?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dcs go to a good public high school in the south. Ds has not had to read a book since middle school. Dd has had one book to read for AP English Lit so far, that's it.

One book for AP English?!

Many AP English classes have a poetry short story emphasis to represent the actual exam. Frankly, the best ap course for learning literature and reading is Spanish literature

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC goes to MIT and her professor recently grilled the class for believing they could be intelligent while never reading

I mean this should be obvious to students at MIT. I went to a big state school and there were lots of students there who didn't read much at all but they also didn't aspire to be considered intelligent above other things. But most of them would also have agreed that you need to read a lot to be intelligent. And those of us in the honors college read a lot and believed it helped us become more intelligent.

So if MIT students are having a hard time with this idea, they are worse than stupid. They are stupid AND arrogant. A dangerous combination for someone who also has access to one of the most elite universities in the country and a pathway to a high level career.

We are so screwed.

See above about SBF (MIT grad).

See above about Caroline Ellison as well (parents MIT professors and Stanford grad).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

This is why acceptance % is not a good indicator of the quality of a school. You could accept a tiny portion of a million applicants, but they could all be mediocre applicants.