If TJ has such smart kids, why so much cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not specific to TJ, unfortunately, and I expected better in this district. How are these families raising their kids? Is all fair in love, war…and the race to top college admissions? Very sad. Both of my kids (elementary and high) have received requests to copy work…and it is relentless. One classmate just keeps texting the next friend for the completed homework until one gives in. There is no shame! And in a h.s. honors English class kids keep phones hidden on laps to search for essay responses on AI platforms. It’s disgusting, and kids should suffer real consequences for this. My kids don’t want to be snitches, but I think teachers should be aware. I was not exposed to such rampant cheating in my high school or college. All I keep saying is “How can those kids sleep at night knowing they haven’t earned the grades they were awarded?!” Shame on those families who raise their kids without integrity. It will be interesting if these kids end up at colleges with honor codes.

College is easy for TJ grads. In my first year I went to a total of 10 classes each semester between all my classes and got straight A's at a top 3 public university

Why did you choose to take the easy intro classes instead of the more challenging upper-level classes via instructor permission?

I took the highest classes I could take. I asked around and they said I couldn't go higher up. I can graduate in 2 if I wanted to or quadruple major in 4 year with Math, Stats, CS, Data Science

One of the nicest thing about a TJ education with plenty of APs is the flexibility it gives you in college to branch out and study even more things.

Most highly selective schools do not accept that many credits. The exception is usually the state schools (which would be top 25 or so).

Oh, and your comment applies to almost all high stats FCPS kids. Do you really think the high performing kids throughout the county aren't getting "plenty of APs?" pssss - They are. So I guess you can take that off as one of the nicest things about a TJ education...

I guess I misspoke. It's really the dual enrollment courses that 1) more universities except and 2) TJ offers more easily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People cheated to get in under the new admission process. It is how they work.

Wealthier families would buy access to the admission test with the old process it was so broken and corrupt. I can't believe some people consider that merit.

Well it's not just some people. Data and peer reviewed research also believe that testing is a merit based process.
Of course some people don't really like data and peer reviewed research when it doesn't align with ideological beliefs, trump supporters come to mind.
You sound like a trump supporter.

No but the problem is that people already know some of the answers coming into the exam. I remember I had seen previous TJ exam questions on the one that I took. I'm all for the TJ test and taking the top 500 scores, but I would only support that if there was a way to make it so everyone is on an even playing field.

[Anonymous]

I had a friend who was criminally charged with false identity for test taking. A very affluent international student paid him to take a test. Apparently, this happens all the time, especially in Northern VA.

People are easily bribed to look the other way when a fancy person with a global name and big money flashes the cash.

I worked in the graduate admissions office of a prestigious university. So many students could not cut the mustard after they were admitted.

Many parents shove information down into the students but the kids can't apply the skills in the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not specific to TJ, unfortunately, and I expected better in this district. How are these families raising their kids? Is all fair in love, war…and the race to top college admissions? Very sad. Both of my kids (elementary and high) have received requests to copy work…and it is relentless. One classmate just keeps texting the next friend for the completed homework until one gives in. There is no shame! And in a h.s. honors English class kids keep phones hidden on laps to search for essay responses on AI platforms. It’s disgusting, and kids should suffer real consequences for this. My kids don’t want to be snitches, but I think teachers should be aware. I was not exposed to such rampant cheating in my high school or college. All I keep saying is “How can those kids sleep at night knowing they haven’t earned the grades they were awarded?!” Shame on those families who raise their kids without integrity. It will be interesting if these kids end up at colleges with honor codes.

College is easy for TJ grads. In my first year I went to a total of 10 classes each semester between all my classes and got straight A's at a top 3 public university

Why did you choose to take the easy intro classes instead of the more challenging upper-level classes via instructor permission?

I took the highest classes I could take. I asked around and they said I couldn't go higher up. I can graduate in 2 if I wanted to or quadruple major in 4 year with Math, Stats, CS, Data Science

One of the nicest thing about a TJ education with plenty of APs is the flexibility it gives you in college to branch out and study even more things.

Most highly selective schools do not accept that many credits. The exception is usually the state schools (which would be top 25 or so).

Oh, and your comment applies to almost all high stats FCPS kids. Do you really think the high performing kids throughout the county aren't getting "plenty of APs?" pssss - They are. So I guess you can take that off as one of the nicest things about a TJ education...

I guess I misspoke. It's really the dual enrollment courses that 1) more universities except and 2) TJ offers more easily.

No, you're still wrong. TJ does not offer DE courses more easily. I've just looked over the course catalog, but if you want to list all the DE courses that are offered at TJ and difficult for other FCPS kids to take, please do. Otherwise, the assumption is you agree with me. TJ AND all FCPS kids can take online DE or in person DE classes at a school (which most are bussed to). TJ and all FCPS students then have access to other DE courses taught in their own schools or on college campuses.

As for your first point, again, highly ranked schools do not typically take a bunch of AP OR DE courses, unless they are state, public schools. So UVA would, W&M would, but Yale, Brown, Cornell, etc. would not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who was criminally charged with false identity for test taking. A very affluent international student paid him to take a test. Apparently, this happens all the time, especially in Northern VA.

People are easily bribed to look the other way when a fancy person with a global name and big money flashes the cash.

I worked in the graduate admissions office of a prestigious university. So many students could not cut the mustard after they were admitted.

Many parents shove information down into the students but the kids can't apply the skills in the real world.

No, this does not happen all the time in Northern Virginia - where someone poses as someone else to take an exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People cheated to get in under the new admission process. It is how they work.

Wealthier families would buy access to the admission test with the old process it was so broken and corrupt. I can't believe some people consider that merit.

Well it's not just some people. Data and peer reviewed research also believe that testing is a merit based process.
Of course some people don't really like data and peer reviewed research when it doesn't align with ideological beliefs, trump supporters come to mind.
You sound like a trump supporter.

No but the problem is that people already know some of the answers coming into the exam. I remember I had seen previous TJ exam questions on the one that I took. I'm all for the TJ test and taking the top 500 scores, but I would only support that if there was a way to make it so everyone is on an even playing field.

The SHSAT which is what TJ used (for a while at least) does not do this, all of their tests are available and you will not see two identical questions in any of their administrations.
Did the quant q test do this? If so, then that's yet another reason why quant q was dumb af.
Everyone is on a level playing field, you may not like the distribution of results from that objective measure of merit but that's not the test's fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a friend who was criminally charged with false identity for test taking. A very affluent international student paid him to take a test. Apparently, this happens all the time, especially in Northern VA.

People are easily bribed to look the other way when a fancy person with a global name and big money flashes the cash.

I worked in the graduate admissions office of a prestigious university. So many students could not cut the mustard after they were admitted.

Many parents shove information down into the students but the kids can't apply the skills in the real world.

WTF are you talking about.
If this happened all the time, we would hear about it in the news.
Varsity blues made a ton of headlines.
If anything like what you described happened, it would be newsworthy.
If it happened all the time, it would be in the news all the time.
This is the sort of thing that would have been raised during the hearings when they changed the admissions process.

You are lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People cheated to get in under the new admission process. It is how they work.

Wealthier families would buy access to the admission test with the old process it was so broken and corrupt. I can't believe some people consider that merit.

Well it's not just some people. Data and peer reviewed research also believe that testing is a merit based process.
Of course some people don't really like data and peer reviewed research when it doesn't align with ideological beliefs, trump supporters come to mind.
You sound like a trump supporter.

No but the problem is that people already know some of the answers coming into the exam. I remember I had seen previous TJ exam questions on the one that I took. I'm all for the TJ test and taking the top 500 scores, but I would only support that if there was a way to make it so everyone is on an even playing field.

The SHSAT which is what TJ used (for a while at least) does not do this, all of their tests are available and you will not see two identical questions in any of their administrations.
Did the quant q test do this? If so, then that's yet another reason why quant q was dumb af.
Everyone is on a level playing field, you may not like the distribution of results from that objective measure of merit but that's not the test's fault.

Not when expensive test prep companies use unethical methods.

Prep materials/programs should be public and free for all to use. And should be well publicized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not specific to TJ, unfortunately, and I expected better in this district. How are these families raising their kids? Is all fair in love, war…and the race to top college admissions? Very sad. Both of my kids (elementary and high) have received requests to copy work…and it is relentless. One classmate just keeps texting the next friend for the completed homework until one gives in. There is no shame! And in a h.s. honors English class kids keep phones hidden on laps to search for essay responses on AI platforms. It’s disgusting, and kids should suffer real consequences for this. My kids don’t want to be snitches, but I think teachers should be aware. I was not exposed to such rampant cheating in my high school or college. All I keep saying is “How can those kids sleep at night knowing they haven’t earned the grades they were awarded?!” Shame on those families who raise their kids without integrity. It will be interesting if these kids end up at colleges with honor codes.

College is easy for TJ grads. In my first year I went to a total of 10 classes each semester between all my classes and got straight A's at a top 3 public university

Berkeley? Michigan? UCLA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not specific to TJ, unfortunately, and I expected better in this district. How are these families raising their kids? Is all fair in love, war…and the race to top college admissions? Very sad. Both of my kids (elementary and high) have received requests to copy work…and it is relentless. One classmate just keeps texting the next friend for the completed homework until one gives in. There is no shame! And in a h.s. honors English class kids keep phones hidden on laps to search for essay responses on AI platforms. It’s disgusting, and kids should suffer real consequences for this. My kids don’t want to be snitches, but I think teachers should be aware. I was not exposed to such rampant cheating in my high school or college. All I keep saying is “How can those kids sleep at night knowing they haven’t earned the grades they were awarded?!” Shame on those families who raise their kids without integrity. It will be interesting if these kids end up at colleges with honor codes.

College is easy for TJ grads. In my first year I went to a total of 10 classes each semester between all my classes and got straight A's at a top 3 public university

Berkeley? Michigan? UCLA?

One of those. I'm actually leaving for a t10.

[Anonymous]

These kids need to be scolded on the consequences of a lack of integrity and character because it is carrying on into the colleges.

[Anonymous]

I see "turn everything into a thing about the admissions process" posters are back.

And to think for pages there we had legitimate discussion on the potential actual causes and effect of cheating among the high performing students at TJ going back decades and extending until today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see "turn everything into a thing about the admissions process" posters are back.

And to think for pages there we had legitimate discussion on the potential actual causes and effect of cheating among the high performing students at TJ going back decades and extending until today.

To be fair, the question was answered pretty early on. Kids are stressed because the grading is tougher at TJ than at base schools for the exact same course. Instead of giving kids the same grade they would have gotten at their base school for the same performance in the same course, they are curved against other TJ students and an A student at a base school becomes a B student at TJ. Then schools like UVA de-emphasize testing in favor of gpa and all of a sudden a top 1% kid with a 4.3 GPA cant' get into UVA.

If the grading was comparable to base schools and schools like UVA would try to understand that a B at TJ is basically an A at a base school you would see cheating go down almost overnight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see "turn everything into a thing about the admissions process" posters are back.

And to think for pages there we had legitimate discussion on the potential actual causes and effect of cheating among the high performing students at TJ going back decades and extending until today.

To be fair, the question was answered pretty early on. Kids are stressed because the grading is tougher at TJ than at base schools for the exact same course. Instead of giving kids the same grade they would have gotten at their base school for the same performance in the same course, they are curved against other TJ students and an A student at a base school becomes a B student at TJ. Then schools like UVA de-emphasize testing in favor of gpa and all of a sudden a top 1% kid with a 4.3 GPA cant' get into UVA.

If the grading was comparable to base schools and schools like UVA would try to understand that a B at TJ is basically an A at a base school you would see cheating go down almost overnight.

People have repeatedly said that the difference between the base schools and TJ isn't an issue. Remember: UVA has known TJ for decades. They know exactly, better than you or I do, how TJ's grading scale compares to base schools, what the yield is on TJ kids of a certain GPA versus base school kids of a certain GPA, and the like. Some kids may make this excuse, but if so they've been making it for decades. TJ's grading scale is still easier than NCS's, for example. People at NCS complain about their grading scale, but I don't see anyone rationalizing cheating based on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see "turn everything into a thing about the admissions process" posters are back.

And to think for pages there we had legitimate discussion on the potential actual causes and effect of cheating among the high performing students at TJ going back decades and extending until today.

To be fair, the question was answered pretty early on. Kids are stressed because the grading is tougher at TJ than at base schools for the exact same course. Instead of giving kids the same grade they would have gotten at their base school for the same performance in the same course, they are curved against other TJ students and an A student at a base school becomes a B student at TJ. Then schools like UVA de-emphasize testing in favor of gpa and all of a sudden a top 1% kid with a 4.3 GPA cant' get into UVA.

If the grading was comparable to base schools and schools like UVA would try to understand that a B at TJ is basically an A at a base school you would see cheating go down almost overnight.

People have repeatedly said that the difference between the base schools and TJ isn't an issue. Remember: UVA has known TJ for decades. They know exactly, better than you or I do, how TJ's grading scale compares to base schools, what the yield is on TJ kids of a certain GPA versus base school kids of a certain GPA, and the like. Some kids may make this excuse, but if so they've been making it for decades. TJ's grading scale is still easier than NCS's, for example. People at NCS complain about their grading scale, but I don't see anyone rationalizing cheating based on it.

NCS is a joke btw. The content isn't as difficult as TJ's and it's a private school so you know what the parents do when their kids don't get the grade that they want. Knew a couple girls who went (I dated them), then going to top 10 schools and were dumb as rocks. The problem is that if everyone from TJ went to UVA, they would all be top 10% of the class, no matter the GPA from TJ. If everyone from TJ went back to their base school and applied, they would have gotten into UVA easily. At my base school, the top 20 people in the class got into UVA. But the school was so bad that students 10-20 were people who would be the worst in the class at TJ. Students ranked 1-10 would be bottom 20 percent.