Petition: Later MCPS school start times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the down county consortium should test this approach and use a later start time at one of the DCC high schools. The density of ES is high enough here that you might even be able to free up the right number of busses by give people a choice between a late vs early ES. This would let MCPS test the idea without forcing anyone into it. If enough people want it, you can grow the number of schools doing it and if it causes issues or no one actually wants to live with what a later hs start time means, they can discontinue it.

How about HS 9:00a-3:45p. Is that really too late to start practice for athletic teens?

Our swim starts at 3:45, so yes, slight issue. And, there are morning practices as well. Our school swim practices start either early in the AM or 3 PM. Not including sports and other activities for our kids. Plus homework. That 45 minutes after school is a big deal. And, many parents need older kids to watch younger kids after school. How would that work when there are not enough after school spots as it is?

My kid goes to (private) HS 845-315, it works just fine. Other school systems and communities have figured this out.

Sure, if you're willing to give MCPS enough money to pay for twice as manybuses and drivers.

many school systems have HS start last so the adolescent brain, with its shifted circadian rhythm, starts later, too.

And many kids are fine with the earlier start time. Here’s an idea. Enforce bedtime. Be a parent.

Scientific literature teems with support for later start times:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28670711/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36864696/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27855730/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29157638/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35593065/

"Conclusions: There is converging evidence that later SSTs (school start times) are associated with better overall developmental outcomes, longer sleep duration, and less negative mood. More research needs to consider student and school characteristics to obtain reliable estimates related to possible differences by sex, race, school size, percent free/reduced lunch, and percent minority."

But feel free to ignore inconvenient science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely a way to have later start times and fit in after school activities! -signed a Pediatrician

+100.

- signed HS teacher. I hate first period because kids are half asleep or come in late. Period 2 onwards is so much better

Please tell us how you can fit in activities, homework, shower and dinner with a later start time?

The day is the same length??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely a way to have later start times and fit in after school activities! -signed a Pediatrician

+100.

- signed HS teacher. I hate first period because kids are half asleep or come in late. Period 2 onwards is so much better

Please tell us how you can fit in activities, homework, shower and dinner with a later start time?

The day is the same length??

Then why bother changing anything? High school students will just need to get more done in the morning since there will be less time after school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely a way to have later start times and fit in after school activities! -signed a Pediatrician

+100.

- signed HS teacher. I hate first period because kids are half asleep or come in late. Period 2 onwards is so much better

Please tell us how you can fit in activities, homework, shower and dinner with a later start time?

The day is the same length??

Most states have shifted to a later high school start time due to the clear science data that is now available. Somehow they all figure it out but it is impossible in MCPS. We must be a low IQ county or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely a way to have later start times and fit in after school activities! -signed a Pediatrician

+100.

- signed HS teacher. I hate first period because kids are half asleep or come in late. Period 2 onwards is so much better

Please tell us how you can fit in activities, homework, shower and dinner with a later start time?

The day is the same length??

Most states have shifted to a later high school start time due to the clear science data that is now available. Somehow they all figure it out but it is impossible in MCPS. We must be a low IQ county or something.

There are so many other problems that need solving. So many others. I don’t think this is the issue that makes MoCo a low IQ county.

I looked and didn’t see supporting data online for your claim that “most” states have shifted to later times. Can you cite?

I did see plenty of research that says more sleep will benefit high schoolers, and I absolutely agree. But later start times does not = more sleep for teenagers. What’s to stop students from staying up even later, or waking up earlier to complete what they didn’t have done the night before? There’s no clear correlation here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely a way to have later start times and fit in after school activities! -signed a Pediatrician

+100.

- signed HS teacher. I hate first period because kids are half asleep or come in late. Period 2 onwards is so much better

Please tell us how you can fit in activities, homework, shower and dinner with a later start time?

The day is the same length??

Most states have shifted to a later high school start time due to the clear science data that is now available. Somehow they all figure it out but it is impossible in MCPS. We must be a low IQ county or something.

There are so many other problems that need solving. So many others. I don’t think this is the issue that makes MoCo a low IQ county.

I looked and didn’t see supporting data online for your claim that “most” states have shifted to later times. Can you cite?

I did see plenty of research that says more sleep will benefit high schoolers, and I absolutely agree. But later start times does not = more sleep for teenagers. What’s to stop students from staying up even later, or waking up earlier to complete what they didn’t have done the night before? There’s no clear correlation here.

Every time this pointed out to late start advocates, they either ignore this point or insist it’s not an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely a way to have later start times and fit in after school activities! -signed a Pediatrician

Really, can you explain to me how? There are days that mine doesn't get home from school util after 9 and then there is still homework. Other days it's 6 or 7. Or, they come home and have to go to activities. So, they are often up till 11, sometimes 12 by the time they do homework, eat and shower. That's not including anything else (but we take care of that). So, because other people's spoiled kids cannot manage it or go to bed early, what, I should tell my kids no to exploring their interests at schools? Most ped's give bad parenting advice. This only works for younger kids or those in few activities. All it does is push bedtime even later.

You over scheduled your child so you could parent less. Not too smart if you need this to be explained to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the down county consortium should test this approach and use a later start time at one of the DCC high schools. The density of ES is high enough here that you might even be able to free up the right number of busses by give people a choice between a late vs early ES. This would let MCPS test the idea without forcing anyone into it. If enough people want it, you can grow the number of schools doing it and if it causes issues or no one actually wants to live with what a later hs start time means, they can discontinue it.

How about HS 9:00a-3:45p. Is that really too late to start practice for athletic teens?

Our swim starts at 3:45, so yes, slight issue. And, there are morning practices as well. Our school swim practices start either early in the AM or 3 PM. Not including sports and other activities for our kids. Plus homework. That 45 minutes after school is a big deal. And, many parents need older kids to watch younger kids after school. How would that work when there are not enough after school spots as it is?

My kid goes to (private) HS 845-315, it works just fine. Other school systems and communities have figured this out.

Sure, if you're willing to give MCPS enough money to pay for twice as manybuses and drivers.

many school systems have HS start last so the adolescent brain, with its shifted circadian rhythm, starts later, too.

And many kids are fine with the earlier start time. Here’s an idea. Enforce bedtime. Be a parent.

I’m not sure why you can’t grasp this, but their circadian rhythm prevents them from falling asleep early. They can start laying in bed at whatever time they want, but they won’t necessarily sleep. You can’t overcome biology by ordering someone who isn’t sleepy to sleep.

Stop making excuses. If they are tired they will sleep. Or, they can nap when they get home. You should like a lazy parent.

I’m sorry you don’t comprehend the situation.

Comprehend what? Your kids are spoiled and refuse to go to bed and you prefer to not parent and find ways to help the. By making up nonsense and punish the rest of or kid who are in activities, working, etc which yours are not so no excuse why they cannot go to bed. Be a parent and enforce bedtime.

Not the PP, but how exactly does this punish other kids? All get to sleep later and no one would be cutting activities. You do realize other places start school later their kids are fine.

First off, they may not sleep later. And, how do you propose it works. Sports, for example outside of MCPS all share facilities and there is only so much time/space. As it is the HS kids swim at 3 PM (and it's a mad rush to get them to the pool when school does not let out till 3:30 PM). Mine is in multiple activities outside and inside school and there would be no way to fit it all in without them going to bed much later, which then defeats the purpose. They aren't getting more sleep.

Y'all don't read. Read the science. Oh I forgot, that would be too much parenting on your part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the down county consortium should test this approach and use a later start time at one of the DCC high schools. The density of ES is high enough here that you might even be able to free up the right number of busses by give people a choice between a late vs early ES. This would let MCPS test the idea without forcing anyone into it. If enough people want it, you can grow the number of schools doing it and if it causes issues or no one actually wants to live with what a later hs start time means, they can discontinue it.

How about HS 9:00a-3:45p. Is that really too late to start practice for athletic teens?

Our swim starts at 3:45, so yes, slight issue. And, there are morning practices as well. Our school swim practices start either early in the AM or 3 PM. Not including sports and other activities for our kids. Plus homework. That 45 minutes after school is a big deal. And, many parents need older kids to watch younger kids after school. How would that work when there are not enough after school spots as it is?

My kid goes to (private) HS 845-315, it works just fine. Other school systems and communities have figured this out.

Sure, if you're willing to give MCPS enough money to pay for twice as manybuses and drivers.

many school systems have HS start last so the adolescent brain, with its shifted circadian rhythm, starts later, too.

And many kids are fine with the earlier start time. Here’s an idea. Enforce bedtime. Be a parent.

Scientific literature teems with support for later start times:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28670711/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36864696/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27855730/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29157638/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35593065/

"Conclusions: There is converging evidence that later SSTs (school start times) are associated with better overall developmental outcomes, longer sleep duration, and less negative mood. More research needs to consider student and school characteristics to obtain reliable estimates related to possible differences by sex, race, school size, percent free/reduced lunch, and percent minority."

But feel free to ignore inconvenient science.

This is not real science. It’s someone’s preference and they make up or find data to support it. If your kid needs more sleep be a parent and enforce bedtime like the rest of us do.

We cal also find plenty of studies on how sports, music, theater, arts and other activities benefits kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the down county consortium should test this approach and use a later start time at one of the DCC high schools. The density of ES is high enough here that you might even be able to free up the right number of busses by give people a choice between a late vs early ES. This would let MCPS test the idea without forcing anyone into it. If enough people want it, you can grow the number of schools doing it and if it causes issues or no one actually wants to live with what a later hs start time means, they can discontinue it.

How about HS 9:00a-3:45p. Is that really too late to start practice for athletic teens?

Our swim starts at 3:45, so yes, slight issue. And, there are morning practices as well. Our school swim practices start either early in the AM or 3 PM. Not including sports and other activities for our kids. Plus homework. That 45 minutes after school is a big deal. And, many parents need older kids to watch younger kids after school. How would that work when there are not enough after school spots as it is?

My kid goes to (private) HS 845-315, it works just fine. Other school systems and communities have figured this out.

Sure, if you're willing to give MCPS enough money to pay for twice as manybuses and drivers.

many school systems have HS start last so the adolescent brain, with its shifted circadian rhythm, starts later, too.

And many kids are fine with the earlier start time. Here’s an idea. Enforce bedtime. Be a parent.

I’m not sure why you can’t grasp this, but their circadian rhythm prevents them from falling asleep early. They can start laying in bed at whatever time they want, but they won’t necessarily sleep. You can’t overcome biology by ordering someone who isn’t sleepy to sleep.

Stop making excuses. If they are tired they will sleep. Or, they can nap when they get home. You should like a lazy parent.

I’m sorry you don’t comprehend the situation.

Comprehend what? Your kids are spoiled and refuse to go to bed and you prefer to not parent and find ways to help the. By making up nonsense and punish the rest of or kid who are in activities, working, etc which yours are not so no excuse why they cannot go to bed. Be a parent and enforce bedtime.

Not the PP, but how exactly does this punish other kids? All get to sleep later and no one would be cutting activities. You do realize other places start school later their kids are fine.

First off, they may not sleep later. And, how do you propose it works. Sports, for example outside of MCPS all share facilities and there is only so much time/space. As it is the HS kids swim at 3 PM (and it's a mad rush to get them to the pool when school does not let out till 3:30 PM). Mine is in multiple activities outside and inside school and there would be no way to fit it all in without them going to bed much later, which then defeats the purpose. They aren't getting more sleep.

Y'all don't read. Read the science. Oh I forgot, that would be too much parenting on your part.

As a parent, I enforce bedtime. See how that works. So, my kid goes to bed an hour later as everything is pushed back and only sleeps in an extra 30 mintures. They lose sleep.

[Anonymous]

If you are so good with enforcing bed time, you will figure out how to get them that 30min.

[Anonymous]

Will the scientists and pediatricians in the MoCo area please serve on the Board of Education when you are about to retire or have retired? We need people who think to be making decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely a way to have later start times and fit in after school activities! -signed a Pediatrician

+100.

- signed HS teacher. I hate first period because kids are half asleep or come in late. Period 2 onwards is so much better

Please tell us how you can fit in activities, homework, shower and dinner with a later start time?

The day is the same length??

Most states have shifted to a later high school start time due to the clear science data that is now available. Somehow they all figure it out but it is impossible in MCPS. We must be a low IQ county or something.

There are so many other problems that need solving. So many others. I don’t think this is the issue that makes MoCo a low IQ county.

I looked and didn’t see supporting data online for your claim that “most” states have shifted to later times. Can you cite?

I did see plenty of research that says more sleep will benefit high schoolers, and I absolutely agree. But later start times does not = more sleep for teenagers. What’s to stop students from staying up even later, or waking up earlier to complete what they didn’t have done the night before? There’s no clear correlation here.

Every time this pointed out to late start advocates, they either ignore this point or insist it’s not an issue.

Yes, but even worse they keep bringing this dead horse up every couple of months because they are unable to parent their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Will the scientists and pediatricians in the MoCo area please serve on the Board of Education when you are about to retire or have retired? We need people who think to be making decisions.

The board settled this matter years ago. It's done. Please move along.

[Anonymous]

Decide what time your child needs to get up. Count back 8-9 hours. Enforce bedtime: lights out, cell phones collected.

Done.

It's called parenting.