APS Closing Nottingham

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand why some Nottingham parents on this thread are proposing getting rid of ATS. I am an ATS parent who is very critical of APS’ new proposal. Little did I know that some Nottingham parents solution is to turn against ATS.

Bc fill in the blank:

APS should retain ATS because——————

Because it is hands down the highest performing school in the district AND has an incredibly diverse student body (high El, high farms, majority minority). Everyone likes to pretend it’s wealthy white families going there but It’s not. Won’t be a good look if APS closes the one school that has the lowest achievement gaps for the diverse group that attends.

What does it offer that is different from the rest of APS? It remains true to its mission and doesn’t follow the shiny new fad. In the 70s that was schools without walls before walls came back. More recently it was teaching phonics before phonics came back. Now it’s not hopping on the bandwagon of so-called equitable grading.

This might be the dumbest thing I have ever read. ATS performs well because they teach to the test. And as for what they offer, literally every other school in the county also has the capacity and the expertise to offer. Draft superintendent memo as follows: "All APS schools will now teach phonics and cursive, and homework is mandatory. Grading will be on a standard 4.0 scale." Done. Time to close ATS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: "All APS schools will now teach phonics and cursive, and homework is mandatory. Grading will be on a standard 4.0 scale." Done. Time to close ATS.

yeah but then the SB would lose their woke..err...progressive points and be unable to show off to all their friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one cares if Nottingham pta moms leave Arlington. Seriously. No one.

I believe this is true. The problem is when all the north Arlington pta moms leave and you are stuck in Alexandria public schools. Good luck!

I agree - no one cares. PTA work is invisible, underappreciated, mocked, and judged. But when no one is available to raise money, plan events, attend school board meetings, organize support for the teachers, and build spirit, identity, and community, then you will wonder what happened.

I think what would probably happen is other people would step up to fill the void that your obnoxious and non-welcoming selves left. And the things that would carry on would be things people actually care about.

Also I used to live in Alexandria and they have very active PTAs at the elementary level just like Arlington. Alexandria schools are not in the situation they are in due to lack of PTA moms.

Exactly, non-welcoming, because all they do is try to put on a show while quietly pressuring the school to give their kids the best opportunities (ahem, the best teacher, the gifted program, etc.). The degree of unwelcome towards an average parent and shadiness is pretty high. And them spending money on dubious endeavours without input from other parents makes this situation even more regrettable. This is a commentary on PTA politics in general, not any particular school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you propose as the alternative, Nottingham parents? Earnest question.

I haven’t seen one substantive argument in this entire thread against APS’s proposal. Their assumptions are all wrong is as much as we’ve gotten. I read their assumptions. They don’t sound all wrong to me.

I haven’t seen any good reason for APS’s proposal to shut down a well established and popular school when we are supposedly at capacity, and only a pandemic away from years of unexpected and significant growth. I don’t think they’ve even justified a need for “swing space” without an idea of the schools that are being renovated or the scope of work to be done with them.

Their data methodology- you can drive a truck through it.

It’s not my job to offer alternatives - it’s theirs to prove this is sound and reasoned decision. Not seeing it.

That’s not how this works. Lolz

Lolz at the idiot who doesn’t know how government is supposed to work. Google “arbitrary and capricious” and “abuse of discretion.”

I don’t think the Administrative Procedure Act applies to APS.

Here you go!

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter7/section22.1-87/

Granted, it doesn’t apply to sheer incompetence and bad decision making. That has to be addressed at the polls. But they have to at least pretend to make an informed decision.

Ok, I'll bite. If APS decides to close an underenrolled school to use the building as the most cost-effective option to house students in while the school division does long overdue repairs on very old school facilities, can you please explain how that is arbitrary/capricious/abuse of discretion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you propose as the alternative, Nottingham parents? Earnest question.

I haven’t seen one substantive argument in this entire thread against APS’s proposal. Their assumptions are all wrong is as much as we’ve gotten. I read their assumptions. They don’t sound all wrong to me.

I haven’t seen any good reason for APS’s proposal to shut down a well established and popular school when we are supposedly at capacity, and only a pandemic away from years of unexpected and significant growth. I don’t think they’ve even justified a need for “swing space” without an idea of the schools that are being renovated or the scope of work to be done with them.

Their data methodology- you can drive a truck through it.

It’s not my job to offer alternatives - it’s theirs to prove this is sound and reasoned decision. Not seeing it.

That’s not how this works. Lolz

Lolz at the idiot who doesn’t know how government is supposed to work. Google “arbitrary and capricious” and “abuse of discretion.”

I don’t think the Administrative Procedure Act applies to APS.

Here you go!

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter7/section22.1-87/

Granted, it doesn’t apply to sheer incompetence and bad decision making. That has to be addressed at the polls. But they have to at least pretend to make an informed decision.

Ok, I'll bite. If APS decides to close an underenrolled school to use the building as the most cost-effective option to house students in while the school division does long overdue repairs on very old school facilities, can you please explain how that is arbitrary/capricious/abuse of discretion?

NP but here is what I would say:

1 - The Board does not have the authority to redistrict for the purpose of establishing a swing space for future renovation. Redistricting authority is limited to the efficiency of the division, and in fact, maintenance of the schools is treated as a separate authority. While the Board certainly has redistricting authority, this authority is not broad and in fact, very specific in scope. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter7/section22.1-79/

2 - Second, I would argue that the failure of the Board to articulate specific renovation projects renders Board's justification of Nottingham as a swing space arbitrary and capricious. The Board failed to balance the reliance interests of the Nottingham community against its renovation needs - in fact it failed to even articulate what such "future renovation needs" would be at all.

3- Third, I would argue that in the evaluation of the 16 sites that met the Board's criteria for swing space, impact on the immediate community was neither evaluated nor even considered. The seven evaluation criteria appear arbitrary and not aligned with any accepted community planning criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you propose as the alternative, Nottingham parents? Earnest question.

I haven’t seen one substantive argument in this entire thread against APS’s proposal. Their assumptions are all wrong is as much as we’ve gotten. I read their assumptions. They don’t sound all wrong to me.

I haven’t seen any good reason for APS’s proposal to shut down a well established and popular school when we are supposedly at capacity, and only a pandemic away from years of unexpected and significant growth. I don’t think they’ve even justified a need for “swing space” without an idea of the schools that are being renovated or the scope of work to be done with them.

Their data methodology- you can drive a truck through it.

It’s not my job to offer alternatives - it’s theirs to prove this is sound and reasoned decision. Not seeing it.

That’s not how this works. Lolz

Lolz at the idiot who doesn’t know how government is supposed to work. Google “arbitrary and capricious” and “abuse of discretion.”

I don’t think the Administrative Procedure Act applies to APS.

Here you go!

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter7/section22.1-87/

Granted, it doesn’t apply to sheer incompetence and bad decision making. That has to be addressed at the polls. But they have to at least pretend to make an informed decision.

Ok, I'll bite. If APS decides to close an underenrolled school to use the building as the most cost-effective option to house students in while the school division does long overdue repairs on very old school facilities, can you please explain how that is arbitrary/capricious/abuse of discretion?

NP but here is what I would say:

1 - The Board does not have the authority to redistrict for the purpose of establishing a swing space for future renovation. Redistricting authority is limited to the efficiency of the division, and in fact, maintenance of the schools is treated as a separate authority. While the Board certainly has redistricting authority, this authority is not broad and in fact, very specific in scope. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter7/section22.1-79/

2 - Second, I would argue that the failure of the Board to articulate specific renovation projects renders Board's justification of Nottingham as a swing space arbitrary and capricious. The Board failed to balance the reliance interests of the Nottingham community against its renovation needs - in fact it failed to even articulate what such "future renovation needs" would be at all.

3- Third, I would argue that in the evaluation of the 16 sites that met the Board's criteria for swing space, impact on the immediate community was neither evaluated nor even considered. The seven evaluation criteria appear arbitrary and not aligned with any accepted community planning criteria.

Good lord, it’s as if North Arlington folks have never had to persuade anyone of anything. You want to save your school? Stop with all this nonsense about legality, home values, and school rankings. It makes you sound like petulant, entitled jerks and will lose you allies. Start telling your community’s story and coming up with other options for creating swing space.

[Anonymous]

Good use of your law degree…. Change is part of APS. It just is. Nottingham isn’t more special that Henry was.

Instead of distracting arguments come up with a real solution- not just save our precious Nottingham.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of Nottingham student here. Mine will age out before any of this happens. However, I'm really sad about this turn of events, because I feel like this issue will dominate everyone's attention for the next several years. From the parents, to the PTA, to the teachers, to the administrators, why will anyone care about fostering a sense of community, fun, excitement, commitment, and school spirit in our school anymore? What about our amazing administrators and support staff? There is no plan for them, and there is not space for them at Tuckahoe and Discovery - they will have one foot out the door. What incentive do our teachers, especially our new teachers, have to put down classroom roots, establish traditions, and invest in our kids? This is going to be a three year distraction and dumpster fire, and our kids will pay the price. I wish we could just head to Tuckahoe now and get it over with instead of participating in this three year sh*t show that is about to go down between the parents and APS.

When we moved to Arlington, we settled in Courthouse because we could choice into Key. The following year, Key became fully lottery. This is my first rodeo, but it does seem insane to me that there is zero deference given to the fact that people make important decisions about where to live based on what kind of schooling experience they want. I'm sure the people who bought in the streets adjacent to Nottingham never imagined that they would not be able to send their kids to the school across the street.

Yes, I know these things aren't guaranteed, but this level of unpredictability is absurd. Just bc Nottingham sits in a wealthy area, it does not mean that the families who expected to be able to send their families to this school are racist snobs for being upset and apprehensive about these potential changes. For me, personally, I am bummed that my kid will spend his remaining years of elementary in a school that is circling the drain, with the people on this forum cheering for its demise. Nottingham is a great school with a great community of administrators, teachers, and families, and we are allowed to feel sad and apprehensive about what might happen to it.

You articulated why we left APS. We were affected by some boundary changes after choosing where to buy a house. I understand change happens, but when I really dug into APS and some of the housing issues in the County, it became clear to me that this could easily happen multiple times during our kids’ school career. We can get over occasional change but the unpredictability of APS and the complete failure of the County and School Board to work together on solutions convinced us to leave APS- they just seem so disorganized. And here we go again with both elementary and middle school…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of Nottingham student here. Mine will age out before any of this happens. However, I'm really sad about this turn of events, because I feel like this issue will dominate everyone's attention for the next several years. From the parents, to the PTA, to the teachers, to the administrators, why will anyone care about fostering a sense of community, fun, excitement, commitment, and school spirit in our school anymore? What about our amazing administrators and support staff? There is no plan for them, and there is not space for them at Tuckahoe and Discovery - they will have one foot out the door. What incentive do our teachers, especially our new teachers, have to put down classroom roots, establish traditions, and invest in our kids? This is going to be a three year distraction and dumpster fire, and our kids will pay the price. I wish we could just head to Tuckahoe now and get it over with instead of participating in this three year sh*t show that is about to go down between the parents and APS.

When we moved to Arlington, we settled in Courthouse because we could choice into Key. The following year, Key became fully lottery. This is my first rodeo, but it does seem insane to me that there is zero deference given to the fact that people make important decisions about where to live based on what kind of schooling experience they want. I'm sure the people who bought in the streets adjacent to Nottingham never imagined that they would not be able to send their kids to the school across the street.

Yes, I know these things aren't guaranteed, but this level of unpredictability is absurd. Just bc Nottingham sits in a wealthy area, it does not mean that the families who expected to be able to send their families to this school are racist snobs for being upset and apprehensive about these potential changes. For me, personally, I am bummed that my kid will spend his remaining years of elementary in a school that is circling the drain, with the people on this forum cheering for its demise. Nottingham is a great school with a great community of administrators, teachers, and families, and we are allowed to feel sad and apprehensive about what might happen to it.

You articulated why we left APS. We were affected by some boundary changes after choosing where to buy a house. I understand change happens, but when I really dug into APS and some of the housing issues in the County, it became clear to me that this could easily happen multiple times during our kids’ school career. We can get over occasional change but the unpredictability of APS and the complete failure of the County and School Board to work together on solutions convinced us to leave APS- they just seem so disorganized. And here we go again with both elementary and middle school…

This is the problem. Change happens but it’s the inability of APS and the county to work together and the lack of transparency. Even here APS hasn’t told us what schools need to use the “swing space”. Just like they haven’t really explained to the public what is really required for the career center site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you propose as the alternative, Nottingham parents? Earnest question.

I haven’t seen one substantive argument in this entire thread against APS’s proposal. Their assumptions are all wrong is as much as we’ve gotten. I read their assumptions. They don’t sound all wrong to me.

I haven’t seen any good reason for APS’s proposal to shut down a well established and popular school when we are supposedly at capacity, and only a pandemic away from years of unexpected and significant growth. I don’t think they’ve even justified a need for “swing space” without an idea of the schools that are being renovated or the scope of work to be done with them.

Their data methodology- you can drive a truck through it.

It’s not my job to offer alternatives - it’s theirs to prove this is sound and reasoned decision. Not seeing it.

That’s not how this works. Lolz

Lolz at the idiot who doesn’t know how government is supposed to work. Google “arbitrary and capricious” and “abuse of discretion.”

I don’t think the Administrative Procedure Act applies to APS.

Here you go!

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter7/section22.1-87/

Granted, it doesn’t apply to sheer incompetence and bad decision making. That has to be addressed at the polls. But they have to at least pretend to make an informed decision.

Ok, I'll bite. If APS decides to close an underenrolled school to use the building as the most cost-effective option to house students in while the school division does long overdue repairs on very old school facilities, can you please explain how that is arbitrary/capricious/abuse of discretion?

NP but here is what I would say:

1 - The Board does not have the authority to redistrict for the purpose of establishing a swing space for future renovation. Redistricting authority is limited to the efficiency of the division, and in fact, maintenance of the schools is treated as a separate authority. While the Board certainly has redistricting authority, this authority is not broad and in fact, very specific in scope. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title22.1/chapter7/section22.1-79/

2 - Second, I would argue that the failure of the Board to articulate specific renovation projects renders Board's justification of Nottingham as a swing space arbitrary and capricious. The Board failed to balance the reliance interests of the Nottingham community against its renovation needs - in fact it failed to even articulate what such "future renovation needs" would be at all.

3- Third, I would argue that in the evaluation of the 16 sites that met the Board's criteria for swing space, impact on the immediate community was neither evaluated nor even considered. The seven evaluation criteria appear arbitrary and not aligned with any accepted community planning criteria.

But it isn't the Board's role to articulate any of that, to justify any of Staff's recommendations, or to redistrict anything. That's administration's job. The Board sets a budget and votes on the staff recommendations it's supposed to. It isn't supposed to vote and approve on everything.

Besides, redistricting "for the purpose of establishing swing space for future renovation" - especially when buildings are significantly under-enrolled - IS "for the efficiency of the division." Balancing enrollment across facilities and maximizing use of individual facilities are also a matter of "efficiency of the division."

I would argue that Arlington does not even have a specific "accepted community planning criteria." Just because you don't like the option staff is recommending does not mean it violates all legal parameters.

[Anonymous]

So what other school is going to be moved into this swing space? Taylor for a complete rebuild? Then Mpsa for same reason? They aren’t going to use it as swing space for south Arlington schools.

Does APS even have that level of bonding capacity after the career center?

[Anonymous]

After these projects are complete, what will the long term plan for the Nottingham site be? And can is house a whole middle school with trailers, like to support a rebuild of Williamsburg?

[Anonymous]

^ can it house

[Anonymous]

Long term Nottingham site can be ATS 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand why some Nottingham parents on this thread are proposing getting rid of ATS. I am an ATS parent who is very critical of APS’ new proposal. Little did I know that some Nottingham parents solution is to turn against ATS.

Bc fill in the blank:

APS should retain ATS because——————

Because it is hands down the highest performing school in the district AND has an incredibly diverse student body (high El, high farms, majority minority). Everyone likes to pretend it’s wealthy white families going there but It’s not. Won’t be a good look if APS closes the one school that has the lowest achievement gaps for the diverse group that attends.

What does it offer that is different from the rest of APS? It remains true to its mission and doesn’t follow the shiny new fad. In the 70s that was schools without walls before walls came back. More recently it was teaching phonics before phonics came back. Now it’s not hopping on the bandwagon of so-called equitable grading.

This might be the dumbest thing I have ever read. ATS performs well because they teach to the test. And as for what they offer, literally every other school in the county also has the capacity and the expertise to offer. Draft superintendent memo as follows: "All APS schools will now teach phonics and cursive, and homework is mandatory. Grading will be on a standard 4.0 scale." Done. Time to close ATS.

Tell me you don’t pay attention to APS without telling me you don’t pay attention to aps.

1 APS is all in the latest educational fad just as they were with Lucy and just as they will be for whatever’s next. It will be a decade before the roll back the latest nonsense.

2 not sure what you mean by “teaching to the test” but ATS outperforms every other APS school, including other option schools, on every available measure. No one comes close to what they are doing with a highly diverse population. Yes, every APS school should be doing what ATS is doing. Why won’t APS allow it?