Teacher dictating which parts of daughter's lunch she can eat in which order?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Some parents appreciate that their child learns the importance of eating their main food first instead of those chocolate kisses sent in. Problem would be solved if you didn’t pack sweets in the first place. Maybe the parent should learn what a healthy lunch consists of and that their child will eat those red peppers and humus by watching their classmates eating healthy too and won’t even miss a “dessert”.

Uh, excuse me, it's baked oatmeal.

All high quality people understand that the baking process makes the sugars disappear. Humph.

If her DD came in with a thermos of plain oatmeal, with cinnamon and sliced bananas on top, none of you would be screaming “omg don’t send cookies”. Those exact same ingredients put in the oven are suddenly an Oreo? This is why parents and not teachers decide what their children should eat.

You are talking about preschoolers eating in groups. They are not individually conducting nutritional analysis with mass spectrometers. They are looking at what other children are eating and pitching fits if they have to wait for their "cookies." You could try to argue that it's effing "backed oatmeal," but when you are talking about tiny children, perception is at least as important about reality.

If you want to turn lunch into a digression on the RDAs of 2/3 of a biscuit, get a nanny. If you are poor enough that you need a group setting, don't expect a meticulously catered PhD presentation on nutrition. Have your kid wait for the "cookie," or send it "unbaked." Because it's not as fun and tasty when it's not in cookie form, and that's the point -- the other kids are responding to fun and tasty, not nutritional analysis. Get with the program.

Or send to a preschool where “fun and tasty” isn’t seen as some kind of special privilege given at the discretion of a teacher. How Dickensian.

Have you met a preschooler when you are trying to get them to eat a meal? How about when they are in a group, and with different lunches?

Yes. I have a preschooler with serious allergies. She eats something different from her classmates almost every day. The teachers are apparently superior beings because this has never once caused them to lose control of their classrooms.

Because you can tell the other preschoolers that Larla will get very sick otherwise. Is that a lie you tell in other circumstances, or are you (like most people) trying not to lie to children?

Or you tell them, as our school does, that everyone is in charge of their own plate and what larla eats is for larla and what Chloe eats is for Chloe, which Lin addition to not singling out the kids with allergies, is part of teaching healthy body image.

Okay. And if your school doesn't subscribe to your ethos, you change schools, right? find a place that fits for you, rather than wedging into a place that fits other people and demanding change?

Right?

What is the “ethos” in question? I think it’s reasonable to expect anyone providing childcare to be up to date on best practices for feeding and nutrition and if they aren’t, to be willing to learn something if appropriate. I also think a parent would be out of line expecting change for other children (like the people saying there should be a no cookie rule) but in line about something that only impacts their own child— like how my child eats a muffin for breakfast while the other children eat eggs.

"up to date best practices" Sure.

Okay. Then petition for that and make the case for systemic change to the people who can do it. Don't just crap all over one teacher. Change the system instead of just being a dick.

Im not the pp but that is why I would definitely talk to the administration about this rule to advocate for school wide change. I’d provide references to the science and hopefully get a policy that forbids such rules .

PP here. And I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with this approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for the DCUMness, DCUM

You kicked it off

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some parents appreciate that their child learns the importance of eating their main food first instead of those chocolate kisses sent in. Problem would be solved if you didn’t pack sweets in the first place. Maybe the parent should learn what a healthy lunch consists of and that their child will eat those red peppers and humus by watching their classmates eating healthy too and won’t even miss a “dessert”.

Uh, excuse me, it's baked oatmeal.

All high quality people understand that the baking process makes the sugars disappear. Humph.

If her DD came in with a thermos of plain oatmeal, with cinnamon and sliced bananas on top, none of you would be screaming “omg don’t send cookies”. Those exact same ingredients put in the oven are suddenly an Oreo? This is why parents and not teachers decide what their children should eat.

No, put in the oven they're an oatmeal cookie. That's what most people call "baked oatmeal."

....have you made oatmeal cookies before?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At what age does spreading out a selection of foods and letting your child pick what they are going to eat stop? Because most people don't eat meals at a buffet. Most people eat meals like this: appetizer, main course, dessert. So at some point you're doing your DC a disservice to continue letting them act like a toddler learning to eat and not teaching them to eat like everyone else. What point is that? My guess is when they enter school. OP's child is no longer a toddler.

I put everything we are having for dinner on the table. DH and I let our kids choose what they want to eat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At what age does spreading out a selection of foods and letting your child pick what they are going to eat stop? Because most people don't eat meals at a buffet. Most people eat meals like this: appetizer, main course, dessert. So at some point you're doing your DC a disservice to continue letting them act like a toddler learning to eat and not teaching them to eat like everyone else. What point is that? My guess is when they enter school. OP's child is no longer a toddler.

You should read up on DOR but it’s not “a buffet of food” it’s several items (like a sandwich, yogurt, berries and an oatmeal cookie for example!) all of which you are fine with your DC making their whole meal. Then how much and which items they eat is up to them. Kid wants to have just yogurt today, fine, kid wants to have second sandwich, fine. It’s a a much more adult way of eating because an adult isn’t forced to eat whatever items another adult puts in front of them, and if they dislike something they’ll just eat more of something else.

So at what age does that end?

Well, how old are you? Because that’s how you probably eat as an adult.

No, as a matter of fact I don't. If I ate dessert first I would be in terrible health.

What a weird idea. If you eat the same food in a different order it doesn’t impact your health unless you think offering nutritionally balanced meals means every meal has cake.

I eat the healthy food first, because I'm a mature adult and I realize those are the foods that my body needs to stay healthy. Then if I have room leftover, I eat the dessert. If I"m full, I only eat a few bites because dessert is good.

This is actually STANDARD PRACTICE all over the world, yet you are calling it a weird idea.

This "let them choose what to eat" idea is for children just learning how to feed themselves. It's not how most people eat past the age of 4. Let your kids grow up. They are no longer toddlers in preschool. They can learn to adapt themselves to a group setting -- and if they can't, or if mommy insists they don't have to, they're in for a world of problems in the coming years. Good luck with that.

Do you eat dessert at every meal? Because that’s where your health problems are arising. If you have carrots, chicken, cucumber and yogurt dip at a meal, it is nutritionally irrelevant whether you eat the cucumbers before the carrots. The same is true of a toddler eating oatmeal before yogurt.

Let's not pretend we don't understand the issue. Order is not the issue -- except for cookies, and yes, most people consider "baked oatmeal" to be cookies. Most people teach their children to eat the cookies last. Most do.

The issue is by making some foods special by labeling them dessert you make them more desirable and the foods that must be eaten first (aka foods considered „healthier“) less desirable. This is the opposite of what we want for kids. There is research showing this.

TBH I’d probably avoid the issue by not providing anything that could be considered a dessert but Still would alert the teacher and school that dessert last goes against what we have learned is best for childhood nutrition.

HAHA. You think that kids don't know the difference between broccoli and oreos? And that letting them choose the order in which they eat will somehow cause them not to think that oreos taste better? Common sense is dead. It's just dead, people. People read articles on the internet and forget how to think.

High fat and high sugar foods are INTRINSICALLY more palatable than healthy foods. It's not a learned association. It's just how our bodies work.

You’ve never wanted to eat „real“ food instead of junk food when you were hungry. Sometimes I want steak and broccoli and sometimes I want cake depending on how hungry I am and how much I feel I need the sustained energy of steak and broccoli vs the less filling and temporary satisfaction of cake. In general though I’d take the steak and broccoli over the cake because I actually do like those foods better. if we listen to our bodies it’s pretty easy to learn that eating tons of cake alone does not feel good and more moderate intake combined with other foods actually leaves our bodies feeling better.

I just provide my kid a variety of foods. The other day she ate the chicken heart and onion dish and didn’t eat the cinnamon ginger carrots (going by what was returned by daycare.) I’ve put blueberries and peanut puffs (her favorite snack) on her plate and she’s chosen to eat the blueberries first. All good. She hasn’t yet been subjected to the disordered attitudes toward foods that I grew up with (with the exception of some commentary by my mother when I hope she was too young to understand.)

My daycare provides enough snack foods so I just try to provide nutritionally dense foods. Issue hasn’t come up.

YOUR CHILD IS IN DAYCARE. Some day she will be in preschool -- and then elementary school etc. Some day she will go on a playdate that includes a meal, without you, and she will be expected to eat like a normal person. It's not a disordered attitude -- it's growing and becoming socialized.

[Anonymous]

After reading most of the comments in this thread, I understand why so many teachers are leaving the profession.

OP: What would you think if your daughter came home with a full or just partially sandwich ? Would you then instruct your daughter to eat the dessert last ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some parents appreciate that their child learns the importance of eating their main food first instead of those chocolate kisses sent in. Problem would be solved if you didn’t pack sweets in the first place. Maybe the parent should learn what a healthy lunch consists of and that their child will eat those red peppers and humus by watching their classmates eating healthy too and won’t even miss a “dessert”.

Uh, excuse me, it's baked oatmeal.

All high quality people understand that the baking process makes the sugars disappear. Humph.

If her DD came in with a thermos of plain oatmeal, with cinnamon and sliced bananas on top, none of you would be screaming “omg don’t send cookies”. Those exact same ingredients put in the oven are suddenly an Oreo? This is why parents and not teachers decide what their children should eat.

You are talking about preschoolers eating in groups. They are not individually conducting nutritional analysis with mass spectrometers. They are looking at what other children are eating and pitching fits if they have to wait for their "cookies." You could try to argue that it's effing "backed oatmeal," but when you are talking about tiny children, perception is at least as important about reality.

If you want to turn lunch into a digression on the RDAs of 2/3 of a biscuit, get a nanny. If you are poor enough that you need a group setting, don't expect a meticulously catered PhD presentation on nutrition. Have your kid wait for the "cookie," or send it "unbaked." Because it's not as fun and tasty when it's not in cookie form, and that's the point -- the other kids are responding to fun and tasty, not nutritional analysis. Get with the program.

Or send to a preschool where “fun and tasty” isn’t seen as some kind of special privilege given at the discretion of a teacher. How Dickensian.

Have you met a preschooler when you are trying to get them to eat a meal? How about when they are in a group, and with different lunches?

Yes. I have a preschooler with serious allergies. She eats something different from her classmates almost every day. The teachers are apparently superior beings because this has never once caused them to lose control of their classrooms.

Because you can tell the other preschoolers that Larla will get very sick otherwise. Is that a lie you tell in other circumstances, or are you (like most people) trying not to lie to children?

Or you tell them, as our school does, that everyone is in charge of their own plate and what larla eats is for larla and what Chloe eats is for Chloe, which Lin addition to not singling out the kids with allergies, is part of teaching healthy body image.

Okay. And if your school doesn't subscribe to your ethos, you change schools, right? find a place that fits for you, rather than wedging into a place that fits other people and demanding change?

Right?

What is the “ethos” in question? I think it’s reasonable to expect anyone providing childcare to be up to date on best practices for feeding and nutrition and if they aren’t, to be willing to learn something if appropriate. I also think a parent would be out of line expecting change for other children (like the people saying there should be a no cookie rule) but in line about something that only impacts their own child— like how my child eats a muffin for breakfast while the other children eat eggs.

"up to date best practices" Sure.

Okay. Then petition for that and make the case for systemic change to the people who can do it. Don't just crap all over one teacher. Change the system instead of just being a dick.

Im not the pp but that is why I would definitely talk to the administration about this rule to advocate for school wide change. I’d provide references to the science and hopefully get a policy that forbids such rules .

Is this the Acorn school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At what age does spreading out a selection of foods and letting your child pick what they are going to eat stop? Because most people don't eat meals at a buffet. Most people eat meals like this: appetizer, main course, dessert. So at some point you're doing your DC a disservice to continue letting them act like a toddler learning to eat and not teaching them to eat like everyone else. What point is that? My guess is when they enter school. OP's child is no longer a toddler.

I put everything we are having for dinner on the table. DH and I let our kids choose what they want to eat.

Including dessert?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At what age does spreading out a selection of foods and letting your child pick what they are going to eat stop? Because most people don't eat meals at a buffet. Most people eat meals like this: appetizer, main course, dessert. So at some point you're doing your DC a disservice to continue letting them act like a toddler learning to eat and not teaching them to eat like everyone else. What point is that? My guess is when they enter school. OP's child is no longer a toddler.

You should read up on DOR but it’s not “a buffet of food” it’s several items (like a sandwich, yogurt, berries and an oatmeal cookie for example!) all of which you are fine with your DC making their whole meal. Then how much and which items they eat is up to them. Kid wants to have just yogurt today, fine, kid wants to have second sandwich, fine. It’s a a much more adult way of eating because an adult isn’t forced to eat whatever items another adult puts in front of them, and if they dislike something they’ll just eat more of something else.

So at what age does that end?

Well, how old are you? Because that’s how you probably eat as an adult.

No, as a matter of fact I don't. If I ate dessert first I would be in terrible health.

What a weird idea. If you eat the same food in a different order it doesn’t impact your health unless you think offering nutritionally balanced meals means every meal has cake.

I eat the healthy food first, because I'm a mature adult and I realize those are the foods that my body needs to stay healthy. Then if I have room leftover, I eat the dessert. If I"m full, I only eat a few bites because dessert is good.

This is actually STANDARD PRACTICE all over the world, yet you are calling it a weird idea.

This "let them choose what to eat" idea is for children just learning how to feed themselves. It's not how most people eat past the age of 4. Let your kids grow up. They are no longer toddlers in preschool. They can learn to adapt themselves to a group setting -- and if they can't, or if mommy insists they don't have to, they're in for a world of problems in the coming years. Good luck with that.

Do you eat dessert at every meal? Because that’s where your health problems are arising. If you have carrots, chicken, cucumber and yogurt dip at a meal, it is nutritionally irrelevant whether you eat the cucumbers before the carrots. The same is true of a toddler eating oatmeal before yogurt.

Let's not pretend we don't understand the issue. Order is not the issue -- except for cookies, and yes, most people consider "baked oatmeal" to be cookies. Most people teach their children to eat the cookies last. Most do.

The issue is by making some foods special by labeling them dessert you make them more desirable and the foods that must be eaten first (aka foods considered „healthier“) less desirable. This is the opposite of what we want for kids. There is research showing this.

TBH I’d probably avoid the issue by not providing anything that could be considered a dessert but Still would alert the teacher and school that dessert last goes against what we have learned is best for childhood nutrition.

HAHA. You think that kids don't know the difference between broccoli and oreos? And that letting them choose the order in which they eat will somehow cause them not to think that oreos taste better? Common sense is dead. It's just dead, people. People read articles on the internet and forget how to think.

High fat and high sugar foods are INTRINSICALLY more palatable than healthy foods. It's not a learned association. It's just how our bodies work.

You’ve never wanted to eat „real“ food instead of junk food when you were hungry. Sometimes I want steak and broccoli and sometimes I want cake depending on how hungry I am and how much I feel I need the sustained energy of steak and broccoli vs the less filling and temporary satisfaction of cake. In general though I’d take the steak and broccoli over the cake because I actually do like those foods better. if we listen to our bodies it’s pretty easy to learn that eating tons of cake alone does not feel good and more moderate intake combined with other foods actually leaves our bodies feeling better.

I just provide my kid a variety of foods. The other day she ate the chicken heart and onion dish and didn’t eat the cinnamon ginger carrots (going by what was returned by daycare.) I’ve put blueberries and peanut puffs (her favorite snack) on her plate and she’s chosen to eat the blueberries first. All good. She hasn’t yet been subjected to the disordered attitudes toward foods that I grew up with (with the exception of some commentary by my mother when I hope she was too young to understand.)

My daycare provides enough snack foods so I just try to provide nutritionally dense foods. Issue hasn’t come up.

YOUR CHILD IS IN DAYCARE. Some day she will be in preschool -- and then elementary school etc. Some day she will go on a playdate that includes a meal, without you, and she will be expected to eat like a normal person. It's not a disordered attitude -- it's growing and becoming socialized.

Hmm nothing I wrote suggests that my child doesn’t eat like a normal person. Unless you think that preferring chicken hearts and onions to cinnamon carrots and eating blueberries before peanut puffs makes her abnormal.

As her parent it is my responsibility to follow best practices regarding feeding and nutrition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At what age does spreading out a selection of foods and letting your child pick what they are going to eat stop? Because most people don't eat meals at a buffet. Most people eat meals like this: appetizer, main course, dessert. So at some point you're doing your DC a disservice to continue letting them act like a toddler learning to eat and not teaching them to eat like everyone else. What point is that? My guess is when they enter school. OP's child is no longer a toddler.

I put everything we are having for dinner on the table. DH and I let our kids choose what they want to eat.

Including dessert?

We don’t usually have dessert

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At what age does spreading out a selection of foods and letting your child pick what they are going to eat stop? Because most people don't eat meals at a buffet. Most people eat meals like this: appetizer, main course, dessert. So at some point you're doing your DC a disservice to continue letting them act like a toddler learning to eat and not teaching them to eat like everyone else. What point is that? My guess is when they enter school. OP's child is no longer a toddler.

You should read up on DOR but it’s not “a buffet of food” it’s several items (like a sandwich, yogurt, berries and an oatmeal cookie for example!) all of which you are fine with your DC making their whole meal. Then how much and which items they eat is up to them. Kid wants to have just yogurt today, fine, kid wants to have second sandwich, fine. It’s a a much more adult way of eating because an adult isn’t forced to eat whatever items another adult puts in front of them, and if they dislike something they’ll just eat more of something else.

So at what age does that end?

Well, how old are you? Because that’s how you probably eat as an adult.

No, as a matter of fact I don't. If I ate dessert first I would be in terrible health.

What a weird idea. If you eat the same food in a different order it doesn’t impact your health unless you think offering nutritionally balanced meals means every meal has cake.

I eat the healthy food first, because I'm a mature adult and I realize those are the foods that my body needs to stay healthy. Then if I have room leftover, I eat the dessert. If I"m full, I only eat a few bites because dessert is good.

This is actually STANDARD PRACTICE all over the world, yet you are calling it a weird idea.

This "let them choose what to eat" idea is for children just learning how to feed themselves. It's not how most people eat past the age of 4. Let your kids grow up. They are no longer toddlers in preschool. They can learn to adapt themselves to a group setting -- and if they can't, or if mommy insists they don't have to, they're in for a world of problems in the coming years. Good luck with that.

Do you eat dessert at every meal? Because that’s where your health problems are arising. If you have carrots, chicken, cucumber and yogurt dip at a meal, it is nutritionally irrelevant whether you eat the cucumbers before the carrots. The same is true of a toddler eating oatmeal before yogurt.

Let's not pretend we don't understand the issue. Order is not the issue -- except for cookies, and yes, most people consider "baked oatmeal" to be cookies. Most people teach their children to eat the cookies last. Most do.

The issue is by making some foods special by labeling them dessert you make them more desirable and the foods that must be eaten first (aka foods considered „healthier“) less desirable. This is the opposite of what we want for kids. There is research showing this.

TBH I’d probably avoid the issue by not providing anything that could be considered a dessert but Still would alert the teacher and school that dessert last goes against what we have learned is best for childhood nutrition.

HAHA. You think that kids don't know the difference between broccoli and oreos? And that letting them choose the order in which they eat will somehow cause them not to think that oreos taste better? Common sense is dead. It's just dead, people. People read articles on the internet and forget how to think.

High fat and high sugar foods are INTRINSICALLY more palatable than healthy foods. It's not a learned association. It's just how our bodies work.

You’ve never wanted to eat „real“ food instead of junk food when you were hungry. Sometimes I want steak and broccoli and sometimes I want cake depending on how hungry I am and how much I feel I need the sustained energy of steak and broccoli vs the less filling and temporary satisfaction of cake. In general though I’d take the steak and broccoli over the cake because I actually do like those foods better. if we listen to our bodies it’s pretty easy to learn that eating tons of cake alone does not feel good and more moderate intake combined with other foods actually leaves our bodies feeling better.

I just provide my kid a variety of foods. The other day she ate the chicken heart and onion dish and didn’t eat the cinnamon ginger carrots (going by what was returned by daycare.) I’ve put blueberries and peanut puffs (her favorite snack) on her plate and she’s chosen to eat the blueberries first. All good. She hasn’t yet been subjected to the disordered attitudes toward foods that I grew up with (with the exception of some commentary by my mother when I hope she was too young to understand.)

My daycare provides enough snack foods so I just try to provide nutritionally dense foods. Issue hasn’t come up.

YOUR CHILD IS IN DAYCARE. Some day she will be in preschool -- and then elementary school etc. Some day she will go on a playdate that includes a meal, without you, and she will be expected to eat like a normal person. It's not a disordered attitude -- it's growing and becoming socialized.

Hmm nothing I wrote suggests that my child doesn’t eat like a normal person. Unless you think that preferring chicken hearts and onions to cinnamon carrots and eating blueberries before peanut puffs makes her abnormal.

As her parent it is my responsibility to follow best practices regarding feeding and nutrition.

Sending your child to school means teaching your children that there will be different rules in different places. If you want complete control, you will need to homeschool. If this is a mountain for you, then you will hate school. Everything a teacher or admin does that you disagree with will throw you over the edge. You need to decide if you want your child to learn from other adults even if you don't agree with them, or if you want complete control. Then figure out your next steps.

[Anonymous]

I get it but the most important thing right now is that your daughter is transitioning into a space where she's not in charge and you're not in charge. There will be many, many times in life where she has to learn to go along to get ahead and no matter the details of you being right, don't rob her of this opportunity to bend a little.
It sounds like minus the crying, she would have finished the lunch in whatever order, so let her learn how to go along in a new environment.

[Anonymous]

Tell that woman to leave your kids lunch alone.

[Anonymous]

For those not familiar with Ellyn Satter‘s DOR here is a link to handouts aimed at early child educators:

https://www.montana.edu/teamnutrition/smartpleasantmealtimes/Pass%20the%20Peaches%20Handouts%20Fall%202016.pdf

Yes for me it’s worth finding a preschool already familiar with these principles.

[Anonymous]

OP, what did the school e-mail say?