MCPS Is Broken What Are Your Ideas to Fix It?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have come to the conclusion that MCPS is incapable of reform.

How can there can reform when people keep voting the same old way?

Yep. The decline in the school system goes hand in hand with the decline in the county. Both are a result of the one-party rule. The ‘progressive’ Democratic politicians have run the school system into the ground. They clearly don’t care about our students and/or our students’ safety. They prefer to espouse progressive policies (Defund the police! Sanctuary county! Eliminate SROs! Restorative Justice!) that have made things so much worse over this past decade. Our kids don’t have a chance.

Sounds like Florida or Texas would be more your speed. Enjoy!

I'd wager the PP is from FL or TX and just paid to post their right-wing views here. The thing is very few people in this county vote for these right-wing policies because they know that's only going to make things worse. As someone who graduated fromMCPS around 30 years ago, my kids are getting a vastly better education today and things seem much better to me. I guess I'm just not one of these half-empty folks that love to complain about everything here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I'd like to see MCPS follow MSDE's school size guidelines:

https://pgcabs.org/2015/07/21/smaller-is-better-maryland-state-department-of-education-publishes-school-size-study-pg-high-school-sizes-vary-widely/

The Maryland State Department of Education has released a report on school size and its impact on education. The study finds that after school enrollment reaches a point where economies of scale no longer decrease operating costs, smaller schools are usually better.

The research team recommends that enrollment limits be set according to school level (i.e. elementary, middle, high) with a maximum of 700 students per elementary school, 900 students per middle school, and 1,700 students per high school. The report clarifies that these are recommended maximum limits, not necessarily optimal enrollment numbers.

1,700 in a HS? Not 2500-3000? that would be wonderful!

How will this ever be affordable considering the lastest immigrant influx?

Bingo. Elephant has arrived. Until county leadership is honest about the number of ghost students in MCPS than your district is not going to get better. There is an agenda in the county to ‘grow’ the Democratic Party base that is directly at odds with building a solid school system for current residents. Hard to do without significant funds for these new students from either the Feds or their host countries largely in the Northern Triangle who have successfully transferred the education of many of their young citizens to the tax payers of Montgomery County. Hats off to Casa de Maryland - one of the most successful advocate organizations around. Impressive two step from these poor countries. El Salvador just accepted Bitcoin to increase the speed of their remittances from citizens here back home to their country. Press 9 for brilliant. Although IMF is pressuring them to dump it - due to volatility. It was largely due to save on Western Union fees.

And the white nationalist/nativist roars! Well, except that the democrats in MoCo certainly don't need any "growing".

This country has been built on hard working immigrants. I'm sorry they reinforce your feelings of inadequacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The report you linked says no such thing. In fact, it identified TWELVE publicly owned sites that are candidates for schools and recommended one of those, the MCPS owned former Forest Grove ES as the site for a new ES.

I'm not the PP but I read that report. What struck me was how improbable/costly a lot of those options were. Costly both monetarily (Parkside) and in terms of the community (Silver Spring Intermediate Park, Wheaton Forest Park, Nolte Park). Between them, there are a bunch of neighborhood parks that have been used by the community for 80 years, a medical clinic, a historic site, a social services provider, and multiple childcare centers.

If these are being offered as "proof" that there is plenty of land for development, I'm not convinced. Further, there was one site on that last that could even possibly be used for anything but an ES and that site is suboptimal in about 15 different ways.

No school space, yet the County Planning board seems to want more high-density housing? Limits SFH zoning in the Thrive 2050 plan?

Moderately Priced Dwelling Unit (MPDU) program and other affordable housing programs to provide price-regulated units appropriate for income levels ranging from deeply affordable to workforce.
https://montgomeryplanning.org/planning/master-plan-list/general-plans/thrive-montgomery-2050/

Couldn't find any plans about schools though?

[Anonymous]

Maybe the kids will be all-virtual?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I'd like to see MCPS follow MSDE's school size guidelines:

https://pgcabs.org/2015/07/21/smaller-is-better-maryland-state-department-of-education-publishes-school-size-study-pg-high-school-sizes-vary-widely/

The Maryland State Department of Education has released a report on school size and its impact on education. The study finds that after school enrollment reaches a point where economies of scale no longer decrease operating costs, smaller schools are usually better.

The research team recommends that enrollment limits be set according to school level (i.e. elementary, middle, high) with a maximum of 700 students per elementary school, 900 students per middle school, and 1,700 students per high school. The report clarifies that these are recommended maximum limits, not necessarily optimal enrollment numbers.

1,700 in a HS? Not 2500-3000? that would be wonderful!

How will this ever be affordable considering the lastest immigrant influx?

Bingo. Elephant has arrived. Until county leadership is honest about the number of ghost students in MCPS than your district is not going to get better. There is an agenda in the county to ‘grow’ the Democratic Party base that is directly at odds with building a solid school system for current residents. Hard to do without significant funds for these new students from either the Feds or their host countries largely in the Northern Triangle who have successfully transferred the education of many of their young citizens to the tax payers of Montgomery County. Hats off to Casa de Maryland - one of the most successful advocate organizations around. Impressive two step from these poor countries. El Salvador just accepted Bitcoin to increase the speed of their remittances from citizens here back home to their country. Press 9 for brilliant. Although IMF is pressuring them to dump it - due to volatility. It was largely due to save on Western Union fees.

All true. Pretending to ignore the effects of recent immigration trends on MCPS is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I'd like to see MCPS follow MSDE's school size guidelines:

https://pgcabs.org/2015/07/21/smaller-is-better-maryland-state-department-of-education-publishes-school-size-study-pg-high-school-sizes-vary-widely/

The Maryland State Department of Education has released a report on school size and its impact on education. The study finds that after school enrollment reaches a point where economies of scale no longer decrease operating costs, smaller schools are usually better.

The research team recommends that enrollment limits be set according to school level (i.e. elementary, middle, high) with a maximum of 700 students per elementary school, 900 students per middle school, and 1,700 students per high school. The report clarifies that these are recommended maximum limits, not necessarily optimal enrollment numbers.

1,700 in a HS? Not 2500-3000? that would be wonderful!

How will this ever be affordable considering the lastest immigrant influx?

Bingo. Elephant has arrived. Until county leadership is honest about the number of ghost students in MCPS than your district is not going to get better. There is an agenda in the county to ‘grow’ the Democratic Party base that is directly at odds with building a solid school system for current residents. Hard to do without significant funds for these new students from either the Feds or their host countries largely in the Northern Triangle who have successfully transferred the education of many of their young citizens to the tax payers of Montgomery County. Hats off to Casa de Maryland - one of the most successful advocate organizations around. Impressive two step from these poor countries. El Salvador just accepted Bitcoin to increase the speed of their remittances from citizens here back home to their country. Press 9 for brilliant. Although IMF is pressuring them to dump it - due to volatility. It was largely due to save on Western Union fees.

And the white nationalist/nativist roars! Well, except that the democrats in MoCo certainly don't need any "growing".

This country has been built on hard working immigrants. I'm sorry they reinforce your feelings of inadequacy.

Sure. But you do need to acknowledge that there is a difference between legal immigration and undocumented immigration.

Feel free to lobby for immigration reform to allow for more legal immigrants. But don’t pretend that an influx of undocumented immigrants is a good thing for anybody except the wealthy business wonders who benefit from the cheap labor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly, I'd like to see MCPS follow MSDE's school size guidelines:

https://pgcabs.org/2015/07/21/smaller-is-better-maryland-state-department-of-education-publishes-school-size-study-pg-high-school-sizes-vary-widely/

The Maryland State Department of Education has released a report on school size and its impact on education. The study finds that after school enrollment reaches a point where economies of scale no longer decrease operating costs, smaller schools are usually better.

The research team recommends that enrollment limits be set according to school level (i.e. elementary, middle, high) with a maximum of 700 students per elementary school, 900 students per middle school, and 1,700 students per high school. The report clarifies that these are recommended maximum limits, not necessarily optimal enrollment numbers.

1,700 in a HS? Not 2500-3000? that would be wonderful!

How will this ever be affordable considering the lastest immigrant influx?

Bingo. Elephant has arrived. Until county leadership is honest about the number of ghost students in MCPS than your district is not going to get better. There is an agenda in the county to ‘grow’ the Democratic Party base that is directly at odds with building a solid school system for current residents. Hard to do without significant funds for these new students from either the Feds or their host countries largely in the Northern Triangle who have successfully transferred the education of many of their young citizens to the tax payers of Montgomery County. Hats off to Casa de Maryland - one of the most successful advocate organizations around. Impressive two step from these poor countries. El Salvador just accepted Bitcoin to increase the speed of their remittances from citizens here back home to their country. Press 9 for brilliant. Although IMF is pressuring them to dump it - due to volatility. It was largely due to save on Western Union fees.

And the white nationalist/nativist roars! Well, except that the democrats in MoCo certainly don't need any "growing".

This country has been built on hard working immigrants. I'm sorry they reinforce your feelings of inadequacy.

Sure. But you do need to acknowledge that there is a difference between legal immigration and undocumented immigration.

Feel free to lobby for immigration reform to allow for more legal immigrants. But don’t pretend that an influx of undocumented immigrants is a good thing for anybody except the wealthy business wonders who benefit from the cheap labor.

Of course they won't. Lumping all immigrants in the same category is a common strategy to villify people who bring up the issues and problems stemming from a high number of illegal/undocumented people. It's easy to just say, "they hate immigrants so they must be racist."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The report you linked says no such thing. In fact, it identified TWELVE publicly owned sites that are candidates for schools and recommended one of those, the MCPS owned former Forest Grove ES as the site for a new ES.

I'm not the PP but I read that report. What struck me was how improbable/costly a lot of those options were. Costly both monetarily (Parkside) and in terms of the community (Silver Spring Intermediate Park, Wheaton Forest Park, Nolte Park). Between them, there are a bunch of neighborhood parks that have been used by the community for 80 years, a medical clinic, a historic site, a social services provider, and multiple childcare centers.

If these are being offered as "proof" that there is plenty of land for development, I'm not convinced. Further, there was one site on that last that could even possibly be used for anything but an ES and that site is suboptimal in about 15 different ways.

Funny that you mention Silver Spring Intermediate Park. As the report itself states, that was the site of a public school until 1973 and the school gym was still there until 1991. While it is a park now, it is also important to understand that when MCPS transfers former school properties to MNCPPC, that transfer includes a legal provision that those properties can and will be reclaimed for use as a school in the future. That was never intended to be a permanent community park, just like SCMS.

You are correct that some of the locations identified don’t make sense, but that is not from a lot size perspective, the Council and Planning Board have been requesting MCPS to scale back their minimum lot size requirements. Instead the sites that don’t make sense are locations like Blair-Jessup Park which were never previously MCPS properties. MNCPPC has a firm policy of not allowing parks to be converted to other uses unless those parks are MCPS properties being temporarily used as parks.

In addition, you seem to be under the mistaken belief that this study is somehow a comprehensive inventory of properties. It is not, as I pointed out already.

Glad that you’re not convinced. The problem is that you don’t know what you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

Proposals to fix MCPS.

1. Fire McKnight

2. Stop coddling violent and disruptive kids and get them out of classrooms so that kids can learn.

[Anonymous]

Funny that you mention Silver Spring Intermediate Park. As the report itself states, that was the site of a public school until 1973 and the school gym was still there until 1991. While it is a park now, it is also important to understand that when MCPS transfers former school properties to MNCPPC, that transfer includes a legal provision that those properties can and will be reclaimed for use as a school in the future. That was never intended to be a permanent community park, just like SCMS.

The interesting thing about that park is it's currently being totally renovated by the parks service. I'm guessing there was some sort of change of status that would take it off the table for MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are good ideas proposed in this thread but none of it matters because no one in the BoE nor MCPS Central Office would support any of these changes; and the county council will back them up. They're all in bed together and are united in their mission to lower standards to close the achievement gap and to reduce reported disciplinary actions by not disciplining students even when they should be. The only way to fix MCPS is to replace most of the central staff and most of the BoE with people who actually do want to bring back a focus on quality education and achievement for all students.

LOL. What good ideas? Breaking up MCPS?? Segregation?

Either you didn't read the thread or are just purposely focusing on the suggestion that mcps should be broken up. No one suggested segregation so that's a figment of your imagination.

What do you think breaking up MCPS would create? What do you see think the folks who advocate for breaking up MCPS want?
You ain't fooling anyone except yourself.

DP. You lack a good sense of the demographics of this county, have an overactive imagination and seem mentally stuck in the past.

It's you who is stuck in past. You all are trying to find a way to go back to the MCPS of the 1970s.
It ain't coming back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are good ideas proposed in this thread but none of it matters because no one in the BoE nor MCPS Central Office would support any of these changes; and the county council will back them up. They're all in bed together and are united in their mission to lower standards to close the achievement gap and to reduce reported disciplinary actions by not disciplining students even when they should be. The only way to fix MCPS is to replace most of the central staff and most of the BoE with people who actually do want to bring back a focus on quality education and achievement for all students.

LOL. What good ideas? Breaking up MCPS?? Segregation?

Either you didn't read the thread or are just purposely focusing on the suggestion that mcps should be broken up. No one suggested segregation so that's a figment of your imagination.

What do you think breaking up MCPS would create? What do you see think the folks who advocate for breaking up MCPS want?
You ain't fooling anyone except yourself.

DP. You lack a good sense of the demographics of this county, have an overactive imagination and seem mentally stuck in the past.

It's you who is stuck in past. You all are trying to find a way to go back to the MCPS of the 1970s.
It ain't coming back.

Quick question, do you know what percentage of the Black population lives upcounty versus downcounty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are good ideas proposed in this thread but none of it matters because no one in the BoE nor MCPS Central Office would support any of these changes; and the county council will back them up. They're all in bed together and are united in their mission to lower standards to close the achievement gap and to reduce reported disciplinary actions by not disciplining students even when they should be. The only way to fix MCPS is to replace most of the central staff and most of the BoE with people who actually do want to bring back a focus on quality education and achievement for all students.

LOL. What good ideas? Breaking up MCPS?? Segregation?

Either you didn't read the thread or are just purposely focusing on the suggestion that mcps should be broken up. No one suggested segregation so that's a figment of your imagination.

What do you think breaking up MCPS would create? What do you see think the folks who advocate for breaking up MCPS want?
You ain't fooling anyone except yourself.

DP. You lack a good sense of the demographics of this county, have an overactive imagination and seem mentally stuck in the past.

Let me fix it for you. De facto economic segregation.

Wealthy areas not wanting to agree to pay enough taxes to bring all schools up to the levels their schools, alone, with their less challenging demographics, coild achieve if self-funded with existing taxes. Same for other infrastructure (roads, parks, etc.).

We can get high quality schools/programs on a pan-county basis, but it takes the political will both to fund that and to keep opportunities roughly equivalemt across the geography.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Proposals to fix MCPS.

1. Fire McKnight

2. Stop coddling violent and disruptive kids and get them out of classrooms so that kids can learn.

I agree.
But name who exactly would FIGHT to make our schools safe again. And I mean FIGHT ruthlessly to save our kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing that will fix MCPS is breaking it up into smaller districts.

No child should be in a building with 2000 other children on any given day.

The other students didn't care enough about the Magruder victim to let anyone know he was dying alone. Jailyn was left out in the woods under a bridge without a word from the school about him missing.
No one helped him at school.

Mcps is a machine that cates about tests and lowering the achievement gap and doesn't have a single God damn about the kids.

Children need schools that can space kids 3 feet apart.
Children need schools that know or care if they have been left for dead in a bathrooms or if their body is out in the woods for weeks.

Children need classrooms with connections and mentors.
There should be no 30 kids in a kindergarten class.

This doesn't even make any sense. Even if you broke MCPS into smaller districts, it would not mean the schools themselves are smaller. Let's say you make BCC, Whitman, and WJ and all of their feeders into one district. That does not actually make each individual school any smaller, nor does it reduce class size.

You are on a rant here, it's obvious, but you haven't even thought about it long enough to come up with a suggestion that would make a lick of difference.

Its not going to fix things and in schools, like down county where there is a consortium, it would then take away school choice. All it would do is seperate them under different leadership, but you'd still have the same everything except if they built more schools.

Right, and you can't build more schools in the places that need them the most badly because there are no appropriately-sized lots for sale.

I mean, if folks want to use their precious time on planet Earth to try to change the Maryland state constitution and break up county schools, they can. They probably won't succeed, but they can try. However, folks need to understand that even if they get a smaller district, they won't get smaller schools.

First, you are completely missing the reason why people would want to break MCPS up. MCPS as a district is too big to be appropriately administered and this actually used by an excuse by MCPS itself and people on here for why things cannot be better. It’s in the top 20 largest school districts in the country by enrollment. None of the districts with higher enrollment are known for high quality education.

Second, this is a red herring but there are actually ridiculously a lot unutilized school facilities and MCPS property that can be reclaimed and used for schools, if that is the goal (it’s not). In the Bethesda alone off the top of my head there are: Radnor (unused), Lawton Rec Center (MCPS owned and former junior high), Lynnbrook (unused), Ayrlawn (rented to YMCA), Fernwood (leased to Woods Academy), Rollingwood (leased to Lycee Rochambeau), and Randolph Junior High (leased to Charles E Smith Jewish Day School).

Most of those sites are really small, not up to the 750 ES, 1200 MS and 2700 HS sizes we have now.

First you say there is no land for schools and when it’s pointed out that there is a lot of MCPS land for schools all over, you excuse is a lane statement that the sites are too small?

The SCMS site was smaller than MCPS standards, which is what the neighbors used to complain about site selection and loss of a neighborhood park. But wow, they were able to actually build a functional school there without problem.

Whatever your point is, trust me it’s wrong. Give it a rest.

This was a land survey done in Silver Spring for potential sites for future elementary schools or middle schools. They would likely have to take over another community park

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/facilities/rem/Cluster_Report_Downcounty.pdf

So many MCPS properties in tight/already developed areas were given to private interests, even if educational. And they got them for a song -- some on highly favorable terms (e.g., below market rents worth millions, cumulatively) and/or with penalty clauses in case the county ever tried to take them back for public use (also amounting to many millions). Getting them back becomes a sacred cow/third rail. That's what set us up for sacrificing very limited parkland in these areas.

The county effectively gives the common wealth to a small number of favored groups, and they absolutely don't (and didn't) need to do so. Same is happening for new developments that are being given exemptions from development obligations toward public infrastructure (or rebates to the same effect). Think of that, and the related positions among candidates for County Council/Executive, when going to the ballot box.