Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience.

Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

In my experience in school and working 25 years, it’s the poor performers who cut processes and corners. Sometimes they get caught, many times not.

The processes already accounted for that.

The helo rammed the jet after multiple failsafes.

you’re thinking too small. There are many more processes surrounding this - flight paths, pilot training and review guidelines, air traffic control, etc etc.

We know.

And guess what?!

Despite all that thought, planning, work, comms, technology, teamwork, decades of it working out, processes and systems at the military, ATC, American Airlines and DCA…. ….on game day if someone at the flight controls goes rogue for whatever reason, it doesn’t matter.

Going from 200 ft altitude to 350 ft whilst turning right at the same speed will hit the damn jet that’s 5 seconds from landing.

No matter what systems and processes there were. Or do we want hacked AI flying Blackhawk’s now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can planes or helicopters not feel the vibration from nearby planes? Or not hear the motors?beside the flashing anti collision lights on the planes wings, wouldn’t they be able to hear how close they were?

Inside a noisy helo w your ear phones on? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: is

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was a male who said that they had the plane in sight. I’m the PP whose ex was a BH pilot. Based on the stories ex shared with me, it’s possible that the other two pilots were just shooting the breeze instead of supervising.

Doing urban flying by a busy airport?

Guess those two must have really trusted the Pilot In Command….

Were they drunk? Distracted? Not participatory in the expedition? All 3 had an obligation to pay attention. If this was human error, then all 3 failed.

If the error was not seeing the actual CRJ, yes all 3 errored.

If something else was going on the last 5 seconds of the Blackhawk’s ride, the public, military and families need to know.
- mechanical
- PIC panic
- medical emergency of PIC or other
- deliberate last second collision

Only close loved ones, doctors, and the helicopter’s black box would shed light on that.

How do we even know that all crew members were alive prior to impact…

I mean at least 2 of them were alive just prior to impact. The pilot, and the one communicating with ATC seconds before.

Since it was a training exercise I thought the female pilot would be the one responsible for communicating with ATC as well as flying the helo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have any trouble believing they want the funeral service over and finished before they have to deal with the onslaught that is surely coming. Even if she is 1000% at fault, what’s about to happen to her parents is not okay.

Apparently 2 of the 3 bodies haven’t even been recovered from the helicopter yet.

Potomac is pretty cold and mucky plus tons of debris. The rain and cloud cover hasn’t helped either

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: is

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was a male who said that they had the plane in sight. I’m the PP whose ex was a BH pilot. Based on the stories ex shared with me, it’s possible that the other two pilots were just shooting the breeze instead of supervising.

Doing urban flying by a busy airport?

Guess those two must have really trusted the Pilot In Command….

Were they drunk? Distracted? Not participatory in the expedition? All 3 had an obligation to pay attention. If this was human error, then all 3 failed.

If the error was not seeing the actual CRJ, yes all 3 errored.

If something else was going on the last 5 seconds of the Blackhawk’s ride, the public, military and families need to know.
- mechanical
- PIC panic
- medical emergency of PIC or other
- deliberate last second collision

Only close loved ones, doctors, and the helicopter’s black box would shed light on that.

How do we even know that all crew members were alive prior to impact…

I mean at least 2 of them were alive just prior to impact. The pilot, and the one communicating with ATC seconds before.

Since it was a training exercise I thought the female pilot would be the one responsible for communicating with ATC as well as flying the helo.

Acting copilot typically handles radio communication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: is

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was a male who said that they had the plane in sight. I’m the PP whose ex was a BH pilot. Based on the stories ex shared with me, it’s possible that the other two pilots were just shooting the breeze instead of supervising.

Doing urban flying by a busy airport?

Guess those two must have really trusted the Pilot In Command….

Were they drunk? Distracted? Not participatory in the expedition? All 3 had an obligation to pay attention. If this was human error, then all 3 failed.

If the error was not seeing the actual CRJ, yes all 3 errored.

If something else was going on the last 5 seconds of the Blackhawk’s ride, the public, military and families need to know.
- mechanical
- PIC panic
- medical emergency of PIC or other
- deliberate last second collision

Only close loved ones, doctors, and the helicopter’s black box would shed light on that.

How do we even know that all crew members were alive prior to impact…

I mean at least 2 of them were alive just prior to impact. The pilot, and the one communicating with ATC seconds before.

Since it was a training exercise I thought the female pilot would be the one responsible for communicating with ATC as well as flying the helo.

Right, so the vigilantes blaming the female pilot are clearly out of their minds. What was the male communicating with ATC, if not watching? What was he looking at?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are numerous BH pilots saying it was the primary job of the white guy sitting in the back to make sure the area around the BH was clear. I also read that it often is 2 in back although 3 can be done. But doesn’t make sense in this airspace.

Yeah and?

What does the back crew guy do with the PIC, with one hand on cyclical, other hand on collective, and her feet on the rotors, juts up 150 ft off course and veers into middle of river suddenly right when a commercial jet descends there?

Btw this easily could have happened at runway 1 thirty seconds more down river.

This is exactly what will happen with MAGA. They’ll ignore the experts and pull $hit out of their ass to make up some narrative that of course she was a DEI hire, despite absolutely no evidence of it. The men who are alive and knew her won’t speak up on her behalf because there’s a hatred for women in the military as of 1/20/25.

Just the ones that kill 70 people in mid air.

So you’ve already tried her with all the military evidence you have, and found that not only is she guilty, but a “killer?!” Are you already trashing the two white men who did nothing to stop a helicopter that was too high, and off course in line with DCA’s runway?

As soon as you read that last sentence, is your mind now scrambling to make up more damning reasons to blame this accident solely on the actions of a single person, outside of any higher ups who gave orders, or any other culpable parties because she has to be a DEI hire for the very reason she dared to be a woman in the military?

She was in charge it’s mostly her fault.

Then what do you need her name for? To curse it?

They can keep her name, I want to see her credentials and background.

I can tell you her credentials - she is a qualified Army Blackhawk pilot.

Are you also screaming skepticism over the qualification of the instructor pilot, who was probably guiding the training exercise (that's what instructors do) and was actually the one to claim visual contact & ask for separation authority? Oh, of course not. He's male, so of course he's qualified for his job.

Yes, yes I am. I want to see everything for all of them. See if they are equally qualified.

See if their IQ scores, trainings, credentials, backgrounds were similar. Same for the ATC- what are qualifications of them compared to all the other ATC. If they weren’t as qualified who hired them? Who put them in that position? Rumors are they were understaffed. Why? Who let that slide?

They should also look at the experienced pilots that do everything right. How do they measure up in comparison? What is their background? Are they all similar? Were they all hired around the same time when credentials or training requirements were different? If so then why isn’t that the minimum background requirement, not the exception.

Dems scream DEI never happened, so show us the proof. Full transparency, then course correct before 80 more innocent people end up in the Potomac.

This

The above is pretty basic in all the competitive industries I’ve worked in. Rankings, test scores, reprimands, reviews, years of experience doing what, accident reports. Military even adds PT and health reports, as it should.

Sure some politics factors in and we can’t all be astronauts or fly an F15E, but you should have a track record and it should stand on its own feet. Not be propped up. Nor hidden.

So can you please tell us how you found Hegseth’s military record, and 10 years of reviews at the organization he staffed, and how his overall resume compared to all the other white men who were available for and wanted his position? I’d really like to better understand his track record.

Are you considering appointed positions of any president the same as this situation of military heavy helicopter taking down a commercial jet?
That’s weird.

Half of all appointed positions are Thank You gifts. Been that way for decades.

DP here. Yes, I’d prefer at Secretary of Defense at LEAST as qualified as a Black Hawk pilot. Too bad we don’t have that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was a male who said that they had the plane in sight. I’m the PP whose ex was a BH pilot. Based on the stories ex shared with me, it’s possible that the other two pilots were just shooting the breeze instead of supervising.

Doing urban flying by a busy airport?

Guess those two must have really trusted the Pilot In Command….

Were they drunk? Distracted? Not participatory in the expedition? All 3 had an obligation to pay attention. If this was human error, then all 3 failed.

If the error was not seeing the actual CRJ, yes all 3 errored.

If something else was going on the last 5 seconds of the Blackhawk’s ride, the public, military and families need to know.
- mechanical
- PIC panic
- medical emergency of PIC or other
- deliberate last second collision

Only close loved ones, doctors, and the helicopter’s black box would shed light on that.

How do we even know that all crew members were alive prior to impact…

I mean at least 2 of them were alive just prior to impact. The pilot, and the one communicating with ATC seconds before.

But what if the pilot was the one communicating with ATC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are numerous BH pilots saying it was the primary job of the white guy sitting in the back to make sure the area around the BH was clear. I also read that it often is 2 in back although 3 can be done. But doesn’t make sense in this airspace.

Yeah and?

What does the back crew guy do with the PIC, with one hand on cyclical, other hand on collective, and her feet on the rotors, juts up 150 ft off course and veers into middle of river suddenly right when a commercial jet descends there?

Btw this easily could have happened at runway 1 thirty seconds more down river.

This is exactly what will happen with MAGA. They’ll ignore the experts and pull $hit out of their ass to make up some narrative that of course she was a DEI hire, despite absolutely no evidence of it. The men who are alive and knew her won’t speak up on her behalf because there’s a hatred for women in the military as of 1/20/25.

Just the ones that kill 70 people in mid air.

So you’ve already tried her with all the military evidence you have, and found that not only is she guilty, but a “killer?!” Are you already trashing the two white men who did nothing to stop a helicopter that was too high, and off course in line with DCA’s runway?

As soon as you read that last sentence, is your mind now scrambling to make up more damning reasons to blame this accident solely on the actions of a single person, outside of any higher ups who gave orders, or any other culpable parties because she has to be a DEI hire for the very reason she dared to be a woman in the military?

She was in charge it’s mostly her fault.

Then what do you need her name for? To curse it?

They can keep her name, I want to see her credentials and background.

I can tell you her credentials - she is a qualified Army Blackhawk pilot.

Are you also screaming skepticism over the qualification of the instructor pilot, who was probably guiding the training exercise (that's what instructors do) and was actually the one to claim visual contact & ask for separation authority? Oh, of course not. He's male, so of course he's qualified for his job.

Yes, yes I am. I want to see everything for all of them. See if they are equally qualified.

See if their IQ scores, trainings, credentials, backgrounds were similar. Same for the ATC- what are qualifications of them compared to all the other ATC. If they weren’t as qualified who hired them? Who put them in that position? Rumors are they were understaffed. Why? Who let that slide?

They should also look at the experienced pilots that do everything right. How do they measure up in comparison? What is their background? Are they all similar? Were they all hired around the same time when credentials or training requirements were different? If so then why isn’t that the minimum background requirement, not the exception.

Dems scream DEI never happened, so show us the proof. Full transparency, then course correct before 80 more innocent people end up in the Potomac.

This

The above is pretty basic in all the competitive industries I’ve worked in. Rankings, test scores, reprimands, reviews, years of experience doing what, accident reports. Military even adds PT and health reports, as it should.

Sure some politics factors in and we can’t all be astronauts or fly an F15E, but you should have a track record and it should stand on its own feet. Not be propped up. Nor hidden.

So can you please tell us how you found Hegseth’s military record, and 10 years of reviews at the organization he staffed, and how his overall resume compared to all the other white men who were available for and wanted his position? I’d really like to better understand his track record.

Are you considering appointed positions of any president the same as this situation of military heavy helicopter taking down a commercial jet?
That’s weird.

Half of all appointed positions are Thank You gifts. Been that way for decades.

DP here. Yes, I’d prefer at Secretary of Defense at LEAST as qualified as a Black Hawk pilot. Too bad we don’t have that.

I thought you wanted a processes and systems guy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are numerous BH pilots saying it was the primary job of the white guy sitting in the back to make sure the area around the BH was clear. I also read that it often is 2 in back although 3 can be done. But doesn’t make sense in this airspace.

Yeah and?

What does the back crew guy do with the PIC, with one hand on cyclical, other hand on collective, and her feet on the rotors, juts up 150 ft off course and veers into middle of river suddenly right when a commercial jet descends there?

Btw this easily could have happened at runway 1 thirty seconds more down river.

This is exactly what will happen with MAGA. They’ll ignore the experts and pull $hit out of their ass to make up some narrative that of course she was a DEI hire, despite absolutely no evidence of it. The men who are alive and knew her won’t speak up on her behalf because there’s a hatred for women in the military as of 1/20/25.

Just the ones that kill 70 people in mid air.

So you’ve already tried her with all the military evidence you have, and found that not only is she guilty, but a “killer?!” Are you already trashing the two white men who did nothing to stop a helicopter that was too high, and off course in line with DCA’s runway?

As soon as you read that last sentence, is your mind now scrambling to make up more damning reasons to blame this accident solely on the actions of a single person, outside of any higher ups who gave orders, or any other culpable parties because she has to be a DEI hire for the very reason she dared to be a woman in the military?

She was in charge it’s mostly her fault.

Then what do you need her name for? To curse it?

They can keep her name, I want to see her credentials and background.

I can tell you her credentials - she is a qualified Army Blackhawk pilot.

Are you also screaming skepticism over the qualification of the instructor pilot, who was probably guiding the training exercise (that's what instructors do) and was actually the one to claim visual contact & ask for separation authority? Oh, of course not. He's male, so of course he's qualified for his job.

Yes, yes I am. I want to see everything for all of them. See if they are equally qualified.

See if their IQ scores, trainings, credentials, backgrounds were similar. Same for the ATC- what are qualifications of them compared to all the other ATC. If they weren’t as qualified who hired them? Who put them in that position? Rumors are they were understaffed. Why? Who let that slide?

They should also look at the experienced pilots that do everything right. How do they measure up in comparison? What is their background? Are they all similar? Were they all hired around the same time when credentials or training requirements were different? If so then why isn’t that the minimum background requirement, not the exception.

Dems scream DEI never happened, so show us the proof. Full transparency, then course correct before 80 more innocent people end up in the Potomac.

This

The above is pretty basic in all the competitive industries I’ve worked in. Rankings, test scores, reprimands, reviews, years of experience doing what, accident reports. Military even adds PT and health reports, as it should.

Sure some politics factors in and we can’t all be astronauts or fly an F15E, but you should have a track record and it should stand on its own feet. Not be propped up. Nor hidden.

So can you please tell us how you found Hegseth’s military record, and 10 years of reviews at the organization he staffed, and how his overall resume compared to all the other white men who were available for and wanted his position? I’d really like to better understand his track record.

Are you considering appointed positions of any president the same as this situation of military heavy helicopter taking down a commercial jet?
That’s weird.

Half of all appointed positions are Thank You gifts. Been that way for decades.

DP here. Yes, I’d prefer at Secretary of Defense at LEAST as qualified as a Black Hawk pilot. Too bad we don’t have that.

Go pull the last 10 Sec of DoD resumes and tell us what you find. Not just place of employment or title, but what they actually did

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Well said. Thank you.

+1000000!

This is it: It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Everyone else STFU. And now they seem to have come to their senses and changed the process - no more helicopters in flight paths is the right process There is NOBODY who is infallible. You are then a machine and not a human if you are infallible. That helicopter may have messed up - but maybe they didn't - we'll never know what they saw or did not see. The way to approach this is to call it a tragedy of major proportions and learn how to ensure it does not happen again. There has been a pattern of near misses so these 2 planes just paid the ultimate price. It was not the first or second or even 5th time this could have happened.

Absolutely not at all ridiculous to expect to be told who was piloting a helicopter that killed 60+ civilians. When in the history of major airplane disasters has the name of the pilot behind the controls NOT been reported, but moreover, intentionally withheld

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was a male who said that they had the plane in sight. I’m the PP whose ex was a BH pilot. Based on the stories ex shared with me, it’s possible that the other two pilots were just shooting the breeze instead of supervising.

Doing urban flying by a busy airport?

Guess those two must have really trusted the Pilot In Command….

Were they drunk? Distracted? Not participatory in the expedition? All 3 had an obligation to pay attention. If this was human error, then all 3 failed.

If the error was not seeing the actual CRJ, yes all 3 errored.

If something else was going on the last 5 seconds of the Blackhawk’s ride, the public, military and families need to know.
- mechanical
- PIC panic
- medical emergency of PIC or other
- deliberate last second collision

Only close loved ones, doctors, and the helicopter’s black box would shed light on that.

+1. I hope we all find out what happened to the helicopter. What a freaky accident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the view from inside of a helicopter at night
https://youtu.be/S4xnII-1nxY?si=x9QMk7oyeoPYEeIg

How in the world would they miss an airplane?

With this clarity?

Moron, you can't tell the difference between a sightseeing helicopter and a Blackhawk?

Do tell. Tell me the differences in the view please:

https://youtube.com/shorts/bAtL685FVtk?si=cqUzXlQJwaKWwAr4

Blackhawks have windows genius did you think they didn’t?

You don't see a difference??? At all? You can't argue with stupid. I'm out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Well said. Thank you.

+1000000!

This is it: It’s ridiculous fixating on/bickering about the individual pilots and their qualifications. Ridiculous. Incidents like this are a failure of process and policy, not of individual people. You can never rely on people to have perfect judgment or experience. Processes must account for that. Period. If it was possible for this to happen “by accident” then that’s not OK and multiple major changes need to be made.

With the enormity of this tragedy, try gaining some perspective and realize these petty fights are not worth having.

Everyone else STFU. And now they seem to have come to their senses and changed the process - no more helicopters in flight paths is the right process There is NOBODY who is infallible. You are then a machine and not a human if you are infallible. That helicopter may have messed up - but maybe they didn't - we'll never know what they saw or did not see. The way to approach this is to call it a tragedy of major proportions and learn how to ensure it does not happen again. There has been a pattern of near misses so these 2 planes just paid the ultimate price. It was not the first or second or even 5th time this could have happened.

Absolutely not at all ridiculous to expect to be told who was piloting a helicopter that killed 60+ civilians. When in the history of major airplane disasters has the name of the pilot behind the controls NOT been reported, but moreover, intentionally withheld

They’re probably withholding the name to prepare the family for the vitriol that is going be unleashed on their daughter/sister/wife/niece, etc . It’s going to be ugly for them once the name is released.