Blake Lively- Jason Baldoni and NYT - False Light claims

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

Yeah, no not buying that when she refused to be totally naked, JB then claimed that she was difficult to work with. This is not how it went down.

How would any of us know? This is just what's alleged. Baldoni hasn't contradicted. So for now, we are in the dark and can't actually know.

We can surmise a party that lies and stupidly presumes she can’t be contradicted, compelling countering evidence be damned, will lie elsewhere in the same complaint. You for sure are in the dark, though.

We can repost and discuss the comments on the costuming video again. It is relevant. You can crybaby to the mods as much as you like, but it is unfortunately relevant to the discussion about PR and about how Lively encroached on the tasks of other professionals to get a PGA credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

As those of us who have had a BPD in our lives can attest, there is only so long walking on eggshells works for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This case teaches me that moms of boys need to teach their sons to record everything. Unfortunately, Baldoni would have been toast if he didn't have so much evidence to refute Blake's allegations.

This is what is so concerning about this case. Most people wouldn’t have this much evidence.

I disagree with this. I don’t think this kind of thing is common. Most women are not hungry celebrities who have never been told no married to very wealthy and very powerful and if they are there not the one’s usually being sexually harassed by people who have much less power. This is why this case is so weird and like didn’t happen.

The average woman being sexually harassed by the average man is unfortunately just going to move on. I don’t think your sons have much to worry about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

I don’t think that’s been proven or we’ve seen scripts from those conversations. I got the impression that Justin and Jamie wanted to see the scene a certain way and they were were showing her where they were getting the idea from.

Can you point to any of the texts or anything that they were trying to explain how childbirth works to Blake? No they were saying this is how they want the scene and this is why they want it that this way. They knew she’s given birth several times and they weren’t trying to explain child birth. They were showing her what they wanted in the scene and that is when in their right to do so. That is their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When is the next step in legal case? Anything new in front of judges?

Good question. We are still in very early stages.

- Lively's lawyers has told the judge that they will file an amended complaint this week. So that's the next filing you will likely see.

- The next step after the amended complaint is for both parties to file "answers" to the complaints in the respective lawsuits. The goal of an answer is to present the basic defenses someone plans to pursue. However in this case, the answers might not be particularly enlightening because, since Baldoni counter-sued and both parties have amended their complaints, we will mostly already know the broad outlines of each respective party's defenses. Also, for litigators, submitting an answer is usually a delicate dance where you fulfill the requirement of answering the complaint without tipping your hand too much. So I expect these to be somewhat slim compared to there filings we've seen so far.

- Once answers are filed, discovery will start in earnest. The big battles here are going to be over depositions of the parties (scheduling, procedure, venue, etc. -- they are going to fight over all of it) and document production (both sides will be asked to produce relevant emails, texts, voice recordings, etc. -- even more than what everyone has seen so far). There are also several third parties whose depositions and/or doc production could be very contentious -- the other actors on the film (especially the one Lively alleges was also harassed), Jed Wallace, and witnesses like drivers, makeup artists, assistants, etc.

So I would expect the next court appearance to be either a status hearing or discovery conference to discuss those discovery next steps. Unless someone files a motion before then that requires a hearing. Though the judge can also consolidate various issues into the same court appearance for efficiency.

Blake’s lawyer said he was considering amending complaint, may not happen.

No, I believe he said they planned to file the amended complaint. The thing he was thinking about filing has to do with protecting identities/details of some of the famous potential witnesses during the discovery process. On that, the judge told him to draft a motion and that he (the judge) would consider it.

But I think the amended complaint is inevitable. It would be dumb for Lively's team not to take the opportunity given the degree to which Baldoni has seized the narrative with his amended complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

As those of us who have had a BPD in our lives can attest, there is only so long walking on eggshells works for.

Whether you are talking about Baldoni or Lively here, I think it's bad form to claim out of nowhere that a person has borderline personality disorder. I empathize if you have had this in a loved one but this is not the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Actually, you can have it both ways because you’re the director and producer of the movies. No one saying he isn’t fake and isn’t doing fake feminism, but he has a right to lay out the scene that he wants to lay out and Blake needs to do it cause that’s what she’s getting paid a lot of money for. Ridiculous to call it anything else.

[Anonymous]

Two things I don’t think have been discussed enough. Ryan Reynolds text to Justin was completely unhinged. I understand that Justin texted him first, but the way that he tried to have them move production so that they could keep the family together was not at all sweet. “Oh he wants to keep his family together!” No. It made my blood run cold and he strikes me as very controlling and downright abusive. I think he has very strict rules that Blake is not allowed to work and not be with the kids when he is working.

I find it ironic that this was her big play to finally get creative control of a movie and it starts off with her husband texting the director to move the production schedule to accommodate their family.

The other thing I think people should be talking about is how she had two female assistant directors fired within the first three weeks of production. Don’t know what these two could’ve possibly done, clearly not related to sexual harassment since they were female, but I just find this absolutely stunning. This would be sociopathic at any time, but especially at a time when everyone knew the industry was about to shut down for several months and no one was going to be working. The cruelty is absolutely incomprehensible to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Actually, you can have it both ways because you’re the director and producer of the movies. No one saying he isn’t fake and isn’t doing fake feminism, but he has a right to lay out the scene that he wants to lay out and Blake needs to do it cause that’s what she’s getting paid a lot of money for. Ridiculous to call it anything else.

I don’t think that’s how it works when you have signed up for the movie without signing up to do a lot of nudity, and then the director suddenly wants a bunch of additional nudity that you didn’t agree to. I’d expect that would need to be negotiated, and not just accomplished by fiat from the director or by saying “but that’s how my wife did it.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Actually, you can have it both ways because you’re the director and producer of the movies. No one saying he isn’t fake and isn’t doing fake feminism, but he has a right to lay out the scene that he wants to lay out and Blake needs to do it cause that’s what she’s getting paid a lot of money for. Ridiculous to call it anything else.

I don’t think that’s how it works when you have signed up for the movie without signing up to do a lot of nudity, and then the director suddenly wants a bunch of additional nudity that you didn’t agree to. I’d expect that would need to be negotiated, and not just accomplished by fiat from the director or by saying “but that’s how my wife did it.”

And yet she did the scene with a gown, briefs and a pregnancy suit. So regardless of what he suggested, she ultimately wasn’t close to naked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Actually, you can have it both ways because you’re the director and producer of the movies. No one saying he isn’t fake and isn’t doing fake feminism, but he has a right to lay out the scene that he wants to lay out and Blake needs to do it cause that’s what she’s getting paid a lot of money for. Ridiculous to call it anything else.

I don’t think that’s how it works when you have signed up for the movie without signing up to do a lot of nudity, and then the director suddenly wants a bunch of additional nudity that you didn’t agree to. I’d expect that would need to be negotiated, and not just accomplished by fiat from the director or by saying “but that’s how my wife did it.”

Considering the tone of other exchanges between BL and JB that we have seen in writing, I very much doubt that's how it played out. She was perpetually getting her way on that set and asserting herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why he asked about the weight. If you have a back injury, a few pounds either way isn't going to change lifting someone up. He knew she was post partum and they could estimate her weight from looking at her.

I think he asked more due to his body dysmorphia and issues and wanting to know her exact weight.

Agree with this. He definitely wasn't trying to "fat shame" her. However, I think this is a good example of where he is tone deaf and handles things poorly, and hit backfires HUGELY because Lively is highly reactive.

Asking the trainer what Lively's weight was... that was just stupid. Like unacceptably stupid. Again, I don't think he was trying to harass her or shame her or anything. I just think he was being an idiot and not getting what a radioactive violation of her privacy that would be especially with her just coming back from having a baby and clearly being in a sensitive place regarding her weight.

The stuff about him recommending a "weight loss specialist" is silly and I don't agree with her at all that that's what he was doing. But I also thin it all links back to him doing this dumb thing and asking her trainer for her weight.

He and Heath both do stuff like this throughout the production -- just idiotic transgressions that I truly don't believe were intentionally harassing but even just taken in isolation, I'm like "what? who does that?" Telling a mother of four what is normal during childbirth? Walking in on a woman who is topless in a trailer (even if you think she might be "cool" with it, this is just a dumb thing to do and someone with more sense would be like "oh excuse me I'll wait outside")? Talking about porn and asking lots of questions about porn (yes, even in the context of the movie -- this is a hot button topic and especially when you are talking to someone you know offends easily)?

If there was a cause of action that was "accidental harassment via stupidity and lack of self-awareness," I think this two would be guilty of it.

It really bothers me when people object to Jamie and Justin talking about the childbirth scene with Blake because she’s had four babies. Literally, the director‘s job is to lay out a vision for what he wants the childbirth scene to be in this movie. who gives a flying F if Blake has had 10 babies, he’s not coaching Blake through labor, he is trying to lay out a vision for a scene in his movie.

I am sure many actresses have had sex scenes in a movie that were not like the way they have sex in real life. They have gotten married in movies and shot wedding scenes that were not like their wedding in real life. And they have given birth in movie scenes in ways that were not like the way they gave birth in real life.

She is getting paid to act out a childbirth scene and he is the director of a movie. It was completely appropriate for them to have that discussion.

Sure he’s the director, but manspaining to a woman who has given birth four times that all women give birth naked in a tub because that’s how his wife did it — and that all women climax at the same time as their man during sex because that’s what his wife does — seems pretty tone deaf to me. If Justin needed this story to be that specific and oblivious to the big name actress (I know! But compared to Baldoni, Lively is the bigger name and box office draw here) he had actually cast, he should have cast his own wife as Lily instead.

This weird insistence on “this is how women experience this” is off putting. Some directors are brilliant and can get away with mistreating or being rude to the talent, but Baldoni was not in that space and in fact held himself out as someone who would be a partner not a dictator. So his insistence that “women be like this” comes off badly. It speaks to what some people in the thread have said that his feminism seemed performative because he would say one thing but then act differently.

+1 and will add:

Baldoni and Wayfarer made a huge deal about wanting to tell this particular story through "the female gaze." And Baldoni and Heath both have built professional reputations on the idea that they are men who *listen* to the women in their lives, who put aside toxic masculinity in order to be allies and partners. That is the context of this movie.

And then Baldoni and Heath told a woman who has given birth to four children that it is not "normal" to wear a hospital gown during birth (I have given birth and I wore a hospital gown) and that it is "weird" not to want to watch someone else's birth video.

You can't have it both ways. You can't claim to want to make a movie that tells the story from a female perspective and then dismiss female perspectives when they challenge some of the creative choices you are making in that movie. And further, from an employment perspective, you can't get an actress to sign onto a movie by explicitly telling her she'll be a collaborator in making the movie and that you are interested in and open to her ideas and input, and then shame her when she attempts to collaborate and share her ideas.

Or you can, but it doesn't make you a "male feminist" and it doesn't make you a good guy.

Did JB and Heath in fact, tell BL that women don’t wear gowns during childbirth? Is that verified? If so, that is so obviously wrong and disgusting on their part. However it doesn’t equal SH. I would have just disagreed with them and schooled these men that women do wear gowns or whatever they want during childbirth and if they want a totally naked actress pretending to give birth I am not the right actress for this porn film.

Lively alleged it in her complaint and Baldoni's lawsuit doesn't address it at all. So not "verified" but also not contradicted.

And I mean, I think what you describe is pretty much what Lively did, which is why she was not fully nude in the scene. And for standing up for herself and refusing to do unscripted nudity, she was hit with a PR campaign calling her hard to work with and accused of trying to "take over" the movie. Hmmm.

In fact she was fully dressed.

Yep.

I just rewatched this scene on YouTube and I wouldn’t describe her as fully dressed. She was not naked in a tub though. But she’s wearing a hospital gown that’s partly open at the top, her belly is exposed, and she is shot to appear naked from the waist down though you only see legs, torso, and stomach. The way it is shot she must have on one of those nude underwear things because the fake doctor is right up in her personal area. I would describe this as partially nude but ymmv.

Her belly was covered with a pregnancy suit. You do realize that she wasn’t pregnant, right? Jesus.

Sure, so her “belly” is not “her belly.” Pretty sure her naked legs are still hers, and that there is very little between the doctor and her personal area. I would never in one million years call this “fully dressed” but maybe you and Jesus would see this differently.

She is being paid mega bucks to wear a pregnancy suit and willingly pretend to be pregnant in a film, what part was BL confused about?