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Anonymous wrote:Dare to criticize Israel's policies and actions, get doxxed, cancelled and labeled an anti-semite. It's outrageous that we've allowed this sacred cow malignancy to get to this point, but here we are, unfortunately.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/23/opinions/israel-gaza-santa-fired-sag-harbor-dorph/index.html
This is so sad. It’s truly out of control and there are so many like minded people who are scared to speak up. I’ve never seen anything like it in my lifetime (Gen X). I never felt any worry of losing my job or being doxxed for supporting BLM or any other social issue. Apparently genocide = antisemitism .
This is not true at all. First off, many people
lost jobs for posting against BLM and other issues and people were very scared of being “cancelled” for not signaling the right virtues. Second, the president of Harvard kept her job after saying it was permissible to call for Jewish genocide “depending on context.”
In fact, the opposite is true — people know better than to speak out against blacks, but want to express antisemitism and hatred of Jews openly and without repercussions.
If someone came to a job interview and told me, “I hate black people, I want them dead,” then I would never hire them.
If someone says “from the river to the sea” on their social media, that is the same thing as calling for genocide of Israelis and I wouldn’t hire them either.
This is your opinion but not universally true. Most do not mean anything of the sort. You are free to insist it’s true (even when those who say so tell you that is not what they are saying). You are free to act on your beliefs and discriminate against others based on mistaken beliefs if you must. Your insistence that others act on your beliefs or else be labeled antisemitic is where you cross the line.
Whose line? Your line, internet stranger? My view is that you’re supporting Hamas, terrorism, suicide bombers, Putin (a well established friend of Hamas), and genocide by supporting Hamas.
Innocent Palestinians are not protected by Hamas. Hamas is the enemy of innocent Palestinians.
The world must end Hamas. Sadly, since Hamas doesn’t care about its own people and uses them as shields and steals their aid money for trying to eliminate the state of Israel, then supporting a ceasefire means you are supporting Hamas to continue and refortify.
You’re an enemy of innocent Palestinians.
As opposed to whom? Who do you believe to be the friend of innocent Palestinians?
Because if you say “Israel” you can see yourself right out. A ceasefire means that a few days go by where children don’t die in their beds.
Shorter term pain for longer term gain for the people as whole. History is rife with conflicts resulting in the death of innocents and it is heartbreaking for everyone involved. But Hamas must be removed for the sake of humanity. Do you disagree that Hamas must be removed? How do you think it can be done?
I think Israel’s actions created Hamas and its continued actions will foster the next generation of Hamas or another generation with even more hatred in their heart and soul.
Bingo. Now we’re talking real truth. How can you not say you’re antisemitic when you read the above? Israel is to blame for a terrorist organization being voted into place by Gazan citizens? Can we just agree to blame Jews for every evil in the world?
I can sympathize when people say they support a ceasefire in support of saving lives IF you still want to take out Hamas. But to start blaming Israel for everything that Palestine has become? This is when you need history lessons on how Israel was created and what Palestinians have done over the last 75 years to build themselves up as a people (spoiler alert - they’ve done Jack shit because their only goal is to eliminate the state of Israel, not to educate themselves or use billions in aid to support the positive growth of their own citizens). They’ve been offered two state solutions but they want nothing other than complete elimination of Israel and Israelis. They’ve been given billions in aid annually but continue to vote for a government that focuses more on building tunnels and bombs rather than help their citizens. And their schoolbooks teach them not to pursue becoming a doctor or engineer or lawyer, but rather a jihadist and martyr.
But no, none of that is on them. It’s all the Jews fault. The Jews should just line up next to the pits and allow themselves to be executed. Then the Palestinians can be allowed the whole land of Israel and run it into the ground, and then who will they blame? The Americans, just like Bin Ladin.
DP. I am sure you sincerely believe what you wrote and nothing I am going to post on this forum is going to change your world view but I do need to reply anyway.
First, I’m Jewish. My ancestors came to the US fleeing the Ukrainian Pogroms at the turn of the 19th century. I am not anti semitic in any way, shape or form.
Acknowledging the historical and current harm that Israel has inflicted on the Palestinian people has nothing to do my feelings about Judaism or those who are Jewish. Just like my acknowledgement of the historical and current harm that Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups have inflicted on Israelis has nothing to do with my feelings about Islam/Muslims.
In 1948 Israel drove hundreds of thousands of people away from their homes. Since then Palestinians have sought the right of return. They don’t want a two state solution. They don’t want peaceful self government in Gaza. They want to return to their homes (many of which were subsequently destroyed to create room for Israeli farmland and settlements). Of course Israel had its reasons to push the Palestinians from their land in 1948 but those actions are what fanned the flame of hatred that created Hamas. Israel’s actions now are doing nothing to stop that hatred from continuing to the next generation.
I don’t have a solution. The crux of the problem is there are two groups wanting the same land. What is your solution? That Palestinians should just give up their claim? That is just not going to happen. Zionists came back after thousands of years to reclaim their ancestral land. The Palestinian claim is just as strong (many would say stronger).
Did your ancestors have the right of return to Ukraine? Did Jews liberated from the camps have the right of return? No. Displacements happen all over the world, but if you continue to live a pipe dream of something that will never happen, you will never build anything new. I wish instead of wanting ti return to homes that no longer exist, Palestinians would delineate the future that they want to see, the one that has Israel in it. Until they do that there is not going to be a Palestinian state.
You seem very matter-of-fact and peachy keen with the idea of forced displacements being a natural phenomena, but many who share that view vis-a-vis Palestinian refugees are hysterical when it comes to their perceived view that others are supportive of the idea that Israel should be displaced as a nation state.
How do they (maybe you?) reconcile those inconsistent views?
It doesn’t need to be reconciled. Negotiations are grounded in realities. Ukraine is not getting Crimea back. Armenia is not getting Nagorny Karabach back. Japan is not getting Kuril Islands back. Mexico is not getting Texas back, and Palestinians are not getting Israel back . When people accept reality and stop living in denial and fantasy worlds, they can move forward and build something.
Just wait until somebody comes and takes your house. You can just accept it and move on and build a new one; they’ll take that too
Isn’t that what happened to the Jews in Gaza in 2005? The Israeli government forcibly and sometimes violently removed them. Didn’t that happen to 800,000 Jews all over the middle east? Didn’t that happen to Ethiopian Jews that were persecuted in Ethiopia and IDF flew missions to save them (saved 14,000 over 48 hours)? All these people lost their houses. My family was forcibly displaced from Azerbaijan. We made a life somewhere else.
And 100, 000 Armenians were just displaced from Nagorna Karabakh. Two million Ukrainians were displaced from Crimea and Donbas by the Russian annexation in 2014. In 1947, the partition of India displaced more than 16 million people. An additional 2 million people died as borders changed. If you live in America, you are living on land taken from other people. Washington DC itself sits on the ancestral lands of the Nacotchank.
Where is the outrage for the plight of the Nacotchank?
History happens. There have always been conflicts. There have always been wars. Empires rise and fall - like the Ottoman Empire and the British Empire. New nations rise in their place. Is it always fair and just and equitable? No. Just look at the Kurds.
There is nothing unusual about Palestinians. Except their baffling inability to accept an independent country. There was the Peel Commission proposal of 1937, which gave Arabs a state that was much bigger than a proposed Jewish state. Rejected. There was also the UN Partition of 1948. Rejected. There was the 1993 Oslo Accords. Rejected.
After the massacres on 10/7, there will not be a Palestinian state in anyone's lifetime. It's done. There's no hope for a Palestinian state. I think Israelis are idiots for being so undiscriminating in their destruction of Gaza. Every dead child and woman is a tragedy. But after the Hamas massacres, there's no peace to be had. And Palestinians will never overcome Israeli military might. It was a terrible decision to invade Israel. But that's the one thing you can count on among Palestinians - bad decisions. They excel at that. It's tragic.
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