We are NEVER going back until covid is 100% gone - MCPS has no leadership

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don't think kids riding public transportation to school crammed together with a random assortment of adults every day is riskier than kids riding a bus with other kids only from their school? And you are basing this assessment on what?

You are right though that the fact that the school district itself is responsible for the transportation is an issue, because then they have liability. Liability is obviously a huge issue in a litigious society.

On data about public transportation during covid. Public transportation is safe for riders.

Not that the buses, trains, etc. should have "crammed-together" passengers, by the way. With or without students.

Oh, ok, so what you meant to say is that public transportation is just as safe as school buses would be, since it would seem that the data on public transportation (which I now remember reading about) would apply to school buses, too. I thought you were arguing that both are equally unsafe.

To be sure, one of the explanations for the safety of public transportation is that people don't talk much. So a bus full of high school kids at 7 am would be low-risk (everyone asleep or on their phones), and a bus full of elementary school kids at 3:30 pm would be high-risk.

However, school bus transportation is logistically complicated for MCPS even during normal times. If they also have to follow the distancing guidelines, then they simply can't do it. There are some things that would help, for example a policy that they won't provide school bus service to high school kids and middle school kids where public transportation is available. But it seems self-contradictory to achieve distancing on school buses by off-loading kids onto public buses with no distancing.

Another logistical problem is the school bus drivers. There's been rear-door boarding on buses in Montgomery County since March, to protect the drivers. That's not an option on school buses.

Not trying to be snarky, but have you ever used public transportation during rush hours? People don't talk much?
You, provincial MoCo dwellers, are so pathetic it's not even funny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Look, no "government leadership" is truly competent in covid-19 times. No one knows exactly what they are doing. No one.
If covid-19 happened during Obama, would you be screaming for the schools to be closed indefinitely, too?

Plenty of governments had competent leadership, or at least competent-enough leadership. Our federal leadership failed. Please stop trying to obscure or disguise that fact.

As it happens, I personally am not screaming for the schools to be closed at all, let alone indefinitely.

The fact is that our federal leadership failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not trying to be snarky, but have you ever used public transportation during rush hours? People don't talk much?
You, provincial MoCo dwellers, are so pathetic it's not even funny.

Whom are you addressing?

https://blogs.worldbank.org/transport/fight-against-covid-19-public-transport-should-be-hero-not-villain

[Anonymous]

The uptick in deaths for Europe is due to the fact that Europeans take care of their elderly. The grandparents live in the same house or at least the same town. Recall Italy in the beginning. So - kids go to school there and may bring Covid back unknowingly. The irony is so sad.

We Americans mostly leave our old folks in nursing homes or assisted care. Or - we simply don’t live near older generations.

Point being - two different cultural situations. American schools can open without a notable uptick in deaths - totally different risk profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You're both right.

But it would be nice to think, in our area, where have so many smart educated people, they could acknowledge that their reaction is emotional, and not fear-based.

It would be nice to think, in our area, where there are so many people with advanced degrees, that more people understood the idea that different people can look at the same set of facts and come up with different fact-based risk assessments.

Totally agree. Preaching to the choir.

My objection is that someone who has a lower risk threshold than me can impose their risk aversion strategy on me, who has a high risk threshold. Lets all determine our own risk threshold and act accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You're both right.

But it would be nice to think, in our area, where have so many smart educated people, they could acknowledge that their reaction is emotional, and not fear-based.

It would be nice to think, in our area, where there are so many people with advanced degrees, that more people understood the idea that different people can look at the same set of facts and come up with different fact-based risk assessments.

Totally agree. Preaching to the choir.

My objection is that someone who has a lower risk threshold than me can impose their risk aversion strategy on me, who has a high risk threshold. Lets all determine our own risk threshold and act accordingly.

No, that's not how public health works.

Do you also complain about laws and regulations that require you to wear a seat belt in the car and have GFCIs near your sinks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You're both right.

But it would be nice to think, in our area, where have so many smart educated people, they could acknowledge that their reaction is emotional, and not fear-based.

It would be nice to think, in our area, where there are so many people with advanced degrees, that more people understood the idea that different people can look at the same set of facts and come up with different fact-based risk assessments.

Totally agree. Preaching to the choir.

My objection is that someone who has a lower risk threshold than me can impose their risk aversion strategy on me, who has a high risk threshold. Lets all determine our own risk threshold and act accordingly.

No, that's not how public health works.

Do you also complain about laws and regulations that require you to wear a seat belt in the car and have GFCIs near your sinks?

I wonder if the converse occurred to them about people with higher risk tolerance imposing on others...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Look, no "government leadership" is truly competent in covid-19 times. No one knows exactly what they are doing. No one.
If covid-19 happened during Obama, would you be screaming for the schools to be closed indefinitely, too?

Plenty of governments had competent leadership, or at least competent-enough leadership. Our federal leadership failed. Please stop trying to obscure or disguise that fact.

As it happens, I personally am not screaming for the schools to be closed at all, let alone indefinitely.

The fact is that our federal leadership failed.

I am curious about posts like that one. Yes, you are right our leadership was especially incompetent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Exactly. Because I am in Germany right now and nobody here argues that opening schools is the reason for the uptick. Nor is anyone contemplating closing them again, unless there is a case at a school, in which case individual classes are quarantined. Schools have not been shown to be the source of community outbreaks. Don't you think the people in charge here are looking into that?

But Germany hasn't spent 50 years (or more) building

-places where kids need a school bus to get to school
-school buildings without windows that open (or without windows at all)

Lots of kids get to school by bus in Germany. They are not school buses, but public transportation. Arguably, that poses a greater risk in terms of Covid.

There is always going to be another excuse for why other countries can open schools and we can't. The truth is, other countries place a higher value on education and the rights of kids. I know for a fact that this is the case in Germany and also in Scandinavia.

I think a more interesting statistic would be comparing rates of anxiety and hysteria in US vs other countries. Fear is driving actions in MoCo, rationality has gone out the window.

You've hit the nail on the head. We are in hysterics over this virus. And yes, its deadly. But we've done an incredibly poor job of communicating and understanding the risk.

- On average, Americans believe that people aged 55 and older account for just over half of total COVID-19 deaths; the actual figure is 92%.

- Americans believe that people aged 44 and younger account for about 30% of total deaths; the actual figure is 2.7%.

- Americans overestimate the risk of death from COVID-19 for people aged 24 and younger by a factor of 50; and they think the risk for people aged 65 and older is half of what it actually is (40% vs 80%).

And worse for our liberal area, Te misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats, and for those who rely more on social media for information.

And now, as the CDC reports that the date is continuing decrease (WaPo reported over the weekend that the death rate was at .65 for everyone; that is skewed by people in the at-risk categories. it will be MUCH lower for people without a comorbidity), we are at the point where we need to re-open EVERYTHING and let people assess the risk for themselves.

Are you saying that older people's lives are less important? It sure seems like you're saying if you're unlikely to be impacted than screw everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Excuses, excuses. Click on page 11 of this thread and read the 10/09/2020 19:45 post.

Washington County, MD is already partially open. They've managed to figure out how to safely transport kids on buses, fit the kids in classrooms, etc.

They're not Germany. They're an hour away from MCPS, in the same state. Similar infection rate, same governor, same president. The only difference: county leadership.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Exactly. Because I am in Germany right now and nobody here argues that opening schools is the reason for the uptick. Nor is anyone contemplating closing them again, unless there is a case at a school, in which case individual classes are quarantined. Schools have not been shown to be the source of community outbreaks. Don't you think the people in charge here are looking into that?

But Germany hasn't spent 50 years (or more) building

-places where kids need a school bus to get to school
-school buildings without windows that open (or without windows at all)

Lots of kids get to school by bus in Germany. They are not school buses, but public transportation. Arguably, that poses a greater risk in terms of Covid.

There is always going to be another excuse for why other countries can open schools and we can't. The truth is, other countries place a higher value on education and the rights of kids. I know for a fact that this is the case in Germany and also in Scandinavia.

I think a more interesting statistic would be comparing rates of anxiety and hysteria in US vs other countries. Fear is driving actions in MoCo, rationality has gone out the window.

You've hit the nail on the head. We are in hysterics over this virus. And yes, its deadly. But we've done an incredibly poor job of communicating and understanding the risk.

- On average, Americans believe that people aged 55 and older account for just over half of total COVID-19 deaths; the actual figure is 92%.

- Americans believe that people aged 44 and younger account for about 30% of total deaths; the actual figure is 2.7%.

- Americans overestimate the risk of death from COVID-19 for people aged 24 and younger by a factor of 50; and they think the risk for people aged 65 and older is half of what it actually is (40% vs 80%).

And worse for our liberal area, Te misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats, and for those who rely more on social media for information.

And now, as the CDC reports that the date is continuing decrease (WaPo reported over the weekend that the death rate was at .65 for everyone; that is skewed by people in the at-risk categories. it will be MUCH lower for people without a comorbidity), we are at the point where we need to re-open EVERYTHING and let people assess the risk for themselves.

Are you saying that older people's lives are less important? It sure seems like you're saying if you're unlikely to be impacted than screw everyone else.

If it's a question of the elderly making risk-based decisions to shelter (or not) and kids back going to school, kids going to school wins 10/10 times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Exactly. Because I am in Germany right now and nobody here argues that opening schools is the reason for the uptick. Nor is anyone contemplating closing them again, unless there is a case at a school, in which case individual classes are quarantined. Schools have not been shown to be the source of community outbreaks. Don't you think the people in charge here are looking into that?

But Germany hasn't spent 50 years (or more) building

-places where kids need a school bus to get to school
-school buildings without windows that open (or without windows at all)

Lots of kids get to school by bus in Germany. They are not school buses, but public transportation. Arguably, that poses a greater risk in terms of Covid.

There is always going to be another excuse for why other countries can open schools and we can't. The truth is, other countries place a higher value on education and the rights of kids. I know for a fact that this is the case in Germany and also in Scandinavia.

I think a more interesting statistic would be comparing rates of anxiety and hysteria in US vs other countries. Fear is driving actions in MoCo, rationality has gone out the window.

You've hit the nail on the head. We are in hysterics over this virus. And yes, its deadly. But we've done an incredibly poor job of communicating and understanding the risk.

- On average, Americans believe that people aged 55 and older account for just over half of total COVID-19 deaths; the actual figure is 92%.

- Americans believe that people aged 44 and younger account for about 30% of total deaths; the actual figure is 2.7%.

- Americans overestimate the risk of death from COVID-19 for people aged 24 and younger by a factor of 50; and they think the risk for people aged 65 and older is half of what it actually is (40% vs 80%).

And worse for our liberal area, Te misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats, and for those who rely more on social media for information.

And now, as the CDC reports that the date is continuing decrease (WaPo reported over the weekend that the death rate was at .65 for everyone; that is skewed by people in the at-risk categories. it will be MUCH lower for people without a comorbidity), we are at the point where we need to re-open EVERYTHING and let people assess the risk for themselves.

Are you saying that older people's lives are less important? It sure seems like you're saying if you're unlikely to be impacted than screw everyone else.

If it's a question of the elderly making risk-based decisions to shelter (or not) and kids back going to school, kids going to school wins 10/10 times.

I have to disagree my parents live with us so not a real choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Exactly. Because I am in Germany right now and nobody here argues that opening schools is the reason for the uptick. Nor is anyone contemplating closing them again, unless there is a case at a school, in which case individual classes are quarantined. Schools have not been shown to be the source of community outbreaks. Don't you think the people in charge here are looking into that?

But Germany hasn't spent 50 years (or more) building

-places where kids need a school bus to get to school
-school buildings without windows that open (or without windows at all)

Lots of kids get to school by bus in Germany. They are not school buses, but public transportation. Arguably, that poses a greater risk in terms of Covid.

There is always going to be another excuse for why other countries can open schools and we can't. The truth is, other countries place a higher value on education and the rights of kids. I know for a fact that this is the case in Germany and also in Scandinavia.

I think a more interesting statistic would be comparing rates of anxiety and hysteria in US vs other countries. Fear is driving actions in MoCo, rationality has gone out the window.

You've hit the nail on the head. We are in hysterics over this virus. And yes, its deadly. But we've done an incredibly poor job of communicating and understanding the risk.

- On average, Americans believe that people aged 55 and older account for just over half of total COVID-19 deaths; the actual figure is 92%.

- Americans believe that people aged 44 and younger account for about 30% of total deaths; the actual figure is 2.7%.

- Americans overestimate the risk of death from COVID-19 for people aged 24 and younger by a factor of 50; and they think the risk for people aged 65 and older is half of what it actually is (40% vs 80%).

And worse for our liberal area, Te misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats, and for those who rely more on social media for information.

And now, as the CDC reports that the date is continuing decrease (WaPo reported over the weekend that the death rate was at .65 for everyone; that is skewed by people in the at-risk categories. it will be MUCH lower for people without a comorbidity), we are at the point where we need to re-open EVERYTHING and let people assess the risk for themselves.

Are you saying that older people's lives are less important? It sure seems like you're saying if you're unlikely to be impacted than screw everyone else.

If it's a question of the elderly making risk-based decisions to shelter (or not) and kids back going to school, kids going to school wins 10/10 times.

And by elderly, you mean people who are 55 or older?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Excuses, excuses. Click on page 11 of this thread and read the 10/09/2020 19:45 post.

Washington County, MD is already partially open. They've managed to figure out how to safely transport kids on buses, fit the kids in classrooms, etc.

They're not Germany. They're an hour away from MCPS, in the same state. Similar infection rate, same governor, same president. The only difference: county leadership.

WCPS is in their "Stage 2", which means that pre-K and "priority populations with additional services" (not sure what that means, specifically) are in school, and everybody else is doing distance learning.

http://wcpsmd.com/sites/default/files/documents/ReturnToLearn-StudentsInSchool-Stages.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The uptick in deaths for Europe is due to the fact that Europeans take care of their elderly. The grandparents live in the same house or at least the same town. Recall Italy in the beginning. So - kids go to school there and may bring Covid back unknowingly. The irony is so sad.

We Americans mostly leave our old folks in nursing homes or assisted care. Or - we simply don’t live near older generations.

Point being - two different cultural situations. American schools can open without a notable uptick in deaths - totally different risk profile.

Speak for yourself. The increase in numbers is due to people not caring and not social distancing or creative social distancing which is a joke. Most resumed their normal lives from eating out to traveling and are spreading it. Many are asymptomatic or mild symptoms so they don't get tested or care or stay home.