We are NEVER going back until covid is 100% gone - MCPS has no leadership

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Exactly. Because I am in Germany right now and nobody here argues that opening schools is the reason for the uptick. Nor is anyone contemplating closing them again, unless there is a case at a school, in which case individual classes are quarantined. Schools have not been shown to be the source of community outbreaks. Don't you think the people in charge here are looking into that?

But Germany hasn't spent 50 years (or more) building

-places where kids need a school bus to get to school
-school buildings without windows that open (or without windows at all)

Lots of kids get to school by bus in Germany. They are not school buses, but public transportation. Arguably, that poses a greater risk in terms of Covid.

No, it doesn't pose a greater risk.

Also, you are missing the point. For schools to open, MCPS has to figure out how to get kids to school by school bus. That is a huge logistical obstacle that MCPS would not have if kids got to school by walking, biking, or public transportation.

You don't think kids riding public transportation to school crammed together with a random assortment of adults every day is riskier than kids riding a bus with other kids only from their school? And you are basing this assessment on what?

You are right though that the fact that the school district itself is responsible for the transportation is an issue, because then they have liability. Liability is obviously a huge issue in a litigious society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You've hit the nail on the head. We are in hysterics over this virus. And yes, its deadly. But we've done an incredibly poor job of communicating and understanding the risk.

- On average, Americans believe that people aged 55 and older account for just over half of total COVID-19 deaths; the actual figure is 92%.

- Americans believe that people aged 44 and younger account for about 30% of total deaths; the actual figure is 2.7%.

- Americans overestimate the risk of death from COVID-19 for people aged 24 and younger by a factor of 50; and they think the risk for people aged 65 and older is half of what it actually is (40% vs 80%).

And worse for our liberal area, Te misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats, and for those who rely more on social media for information.

And now, as the CDC reports that the date is continuing decrease (WaPo reported over the weekend that the death rate was at .65 for everyone; that is skewed by people in the at-risk categories. it will be MUCH lower for people without a comorbidity), we are at the point where we need to re-open EVERYTHING and let people assess the risk for themselves.

Good heavens, who are the people who believe this?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You don't think kids riding public transportation to school crammed together with a random assortment of adults every day is riskier than kids riding a bus with other kids only from their school? And you are basing this assessment on what?

You are right though that the fact that the school district itself is responsible for the transportation is an issue, because then they have liability. Liability is obviously a huge issue in a litigious society.

On data about public transportation during covid. Public transportation is safe for riders.

Not that the buses, trains, etc. should have "crammed-together" passengers, by the way. With or without students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You've hit the nail on the head. We are in hysterics over this virus. And yes, its deadly. But we've done an incredibly poor job of communicating and understanding the risk.

- On average, Americans believe that people aged 55 and older account for just over half of total COVID-19 deaths; the actual figure is 92%.

- Americans believe that people aged 44 and younger account for about 30% of total deaths; the actual figure is 2.7%.

- Americans overestimate the risk of death from COVID-19 for people aged 24 and younger by a factor of 50; and they think the risk for people aged 65 and older is half of what it actually is (40% vs 80%).

And worse for our liberal area, Te misperception is greater for those who identify as Democrats, and for those who rely more on social media for information.

And now, as the CDC reports that the date is continuing decrease (WaPo reported over the weekend that the death rate was at .65 for everyone; that is skewed by people in the at-risk categories. it will be MUCH lower for people without a comorbidity), we are at the point where we need to re-open EVERYTHING and let people assess the risk for themselves.

Good heavens, who are the people who believe this?!

Here's the thing. We're already about 90% there. Most everything, except for schools, is already open.

You can go the gym. You can go to a restaurant. You can to a bar. Heck, they are about to open Escape Rooms, where they literally lock people inside a small poorly ventilated room, and everyone starts touching everything.

The "quarantine till a vaccine" crown does not realize that life has resumed for MONTHS, and a no impacts to cases. It continues to fluctuate between 60-100 per day.

So, everyone can put on their mask, distance when possible, and wash their hands, and return to normal life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Exactly. Because I am in Germany right now and nobody here argues that opening schools is the reason for the uptick. Nor is anyone contemplating closing them again, unless there is a case at a school, in which case individual classes are quarantined. Schools have not been shown to be the source of community outbreaks. Don't you think the people in charge here are looking into that?

But Germany hasn't spent 50 years (or more) building

-places where kids need a school bus to get to school
-school buildings without windows that open (or without windows at all)

Lots of kids get to school by bus in Germany. They are not school buses, but public transportation. Arguably, that poses a greater risk in terms of Covid.

There is always going to be another excuse for why other countries can open schools and we can't. The truth is, other countries place a higher value on education and the rights of kids. I know for a fact that this is the case in Germany and also in Scandinavia.

I think a more interesting statistic would be comparing rates of anxiety and hysteria in US vs other countries. Fear is driving actions in MoCo, rationality has gone out the window.

PP here and I definitely agree that there is a degree of hysteria in the US that I rarely encounter now that I'm in Germany, even with cases rising. Americans also have a much more risk-averse attitude to life and especially child-rearing. They demand absolute safety in a way Europeans don't. Not sure if it is the result or the cause of the attitude that you can sue and get sued for everything.

I also think the politicization is a huge factor. Trump says the virus is no big deal, so any good liberal has to take the stance that the virus is a huge threat to everyone. I find it much easier to have a more nuanced conversation about the threat over here, because it is not a hot-button political issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Here's the thing. We're already about 90% there. Most everything, except for schools, is already open.

You can go the gym. You can go to a restaurant. You can to a bar. Heck, they are about to open Escape Rooms, where they literally lock people inside a small poorly ventilated room, and everyone starts touching everything.

The "quarantine till a vaccine" crown does not realize that life has resumed for MONTHS, and a no impacts to cases. It continues to fluctuate between 60-100 per day.

So, everyone can put on their mask, distance when possible, and wash their hands, and return to normal life.

This is the Montgomery County Public Schools forum. Perhaps you're posting from Nizhny Novgorod and are therefore unfamiliar with life as it's being lived currently here in Montgomery County, Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

PP here and I definitely agree that there is a degree of hysteria in the US that I rarely encounter now that I'm in Germany, even with cases rising. Americans also have a much more risk-averse attitude to life and especially child-rearing. They demand absolute safety in a way Europeans don't. Not sure if it is the result or the cause of the attitude that you can sue and get sued for everything.

I also think the politicization is a huge factor. Trump says the virus is no big deal, so any good liberal has to take the stance that the virus is a huge threat to everyone. I find it much easier to have a more nuanced conversation about the threat over here, because it is not a hot-button political issue.

Consider the possibility that this is the result of the political leadership in Germany vs the political leadership in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don't think kids riding public transportation to school crammed together with a random assortment of adults every day is riskier than kids riding a bus with other kids only from their school? And you are basing this assessment on what?

You are right though that the fact that the school district itself is responsible for the transportation is an issue, because then they have liability. Liability is obviously a huge issue in a litigious society.

On data about public transportation during covid. Public transportation is safe for riders.

Not that the buses, trains, etc. should have "crammed-together" passengers, by the way. With or without students.

Oh, ok, so what you meant to say is that public transportation is just as safe as school buses would be, since it would seem that the data on public transportation (which I now remember reading about) would apply to school buses, too. I thought you were arguing that both are equally unsafe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP here and I definitely agree that there is a degree of hysteria in the US that I rarely encounter now that I'm in Germany, even with cases rising. Americans also have a much more risk-averse attitude to life and especially child-rearing. They demand absolute safety in a way Europeans don't. Not sure if it is the result or the cause of the attitude that you can sue and get sued for everything.

I also think the politicization is a huge factor. Trump says the virus is no big deal, so any good liberal has to take the stance that the virus is a huge threat to everyone. I find it much easier to have a more nuanced conversation about the threat over here, because it is not a hot-button political issue.

Consider the possibility that this is the result of the political leadership in Germany vs the political leadership in the US.

Yes, it is, in the way I described, which is that the danger of the virus is being blown out of proportion in reaction to Trump's downplaying of it.

I don't think it is because Germans feel like they are in such good hands with their government, because that has no bearing on how we assess the threat the virus poses to each individual person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP here and I definitely agree that there is a degree of hysteria in the US that I rarely encounter now that I'm in Germany, even with cases rising. Americans also have a much more risk-averse attitude to life and especially child-rearing. They demand absolute safety in a way Europeans don't. Not sure if it is the result or the cause of the attitude that you can sue and get sued for everything.

I also think the politicization is a huge factor. Trump says the virus is no big deal, so any good liberal has to take the stance that the virus is a huge threat to everyone. I find it much easier to have a more nuanced conversation about the threat over here, because it is not a hot-button political issue.

Consider the possibility that this is the result of the political leadership in Germany vs the political leadership in the US.

Yes, it is, in the way I described, which is that the danger of the virus is being blown out of proportion in reaction to Trump's downplaying of it.

I don't think it is because Germans feel like they are in such good hands with their government, because that has no bearing on how we assess the threat the virus poses to each individual person.

You don't think that competent government leadership vs incompetent government leadership has any bearing on how people assess the threat? Huh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP here and I definitely agree that there is a degree of hysteria in the US that I rarely encounter now that I'm in Germany, even with cases rising. Americans also have a much more risk-averse attitude to life and especially child-rearing. They demand absolute safety in a way Europeans don't. Not sure if it is the result or the cause of the attitude that you can sue and get sued for everything.

I also think the politicization is a huge factor. Trump says the virus is no big deal, so any good liberal has to take the stance that the virus is a huge threat to everyone. I find it much easier to have a more nuanced conversation about the threat over here, because it is not a hot-button political issue.

Consider the possibility that this is the result of the political leadership in Germany vs the political leadership in the US.

Yes, it is, in the way I described, which is that the danger of the virus is being blown out of proportion in reaction to Trump's downplaying of it.

I don't think it is because Germans feel like they are in such good hands with their government, because that has no bearing on how we assess the threat the virus poses to each individual person.

You don't think that competent government leadership vs incompetent government leadership has any bearing on how people assess the threat? Huh.

You're both right.

But it would be nice to think, in our area, where have so many smart educated people, they could acknowledge that their reaction is emotional, and not fear-based.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't think that competent government leadership vs incompetent government leadership has any bearing on how people assess the threat? Huh.

You're both right.

But it would be nice to think, in our area, where have so many smart educated people, they could acknowledge that their reaction is emotional, and not fear-based.

I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don't think kids riding public transportation to school crammed together with a random assortment of adults every day is riskier than kids riding a bus with other kids only from their school? And you are basing this assessment on what?

You are right though that the fact that the school district itself is responsible for the transportation is an issue, because then they have liability. Liability is obviously a huge issue in a litigious society.

On data about public transportation during covid. Public transportation is safe for riders.

Not that the buses, trains, etc. should have "crammed-together" passengers, by the way. With or without students.

Oh, ok, so what you meant to say is that public transportation is just as safe as school buses would be, since it would seem that the data on public transportation (which I now remember reading about) would apply to school buses, too. I thought you were arguing that both are equally unsafe.

To be sure, one of the explanations for the safety of public transportation is that people don't talk much. So a bus full of high school kids at 7 am would be low-risk (everyone asleep or on their phones), and a bus full of elementary school kids at 3:30 pm would be high-risk.

However, school bus transportation is logistically complicated for MCPS even during normal times. If they also have to follow the distancing guidelines, then they simply can't do it. There are some things that would help, for example a policy that they won't provide school bus service to high school kids and middle school kids where public transportation is available. But it seems self-contradictory to achieve distancing on school buses by off-loading kids onto public buses with no distancing.

Another logistical problem is the school bus drivers. There's been rear-door boarding on buses in Montgomery County since March, to protect the drivers. That's not an option on school buses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP here and I definitely agree that there is a degree of hysteria in the US that I rarely encounter now that I'm in Germany, even with cases rising. Americans also have a much more risk-averse attitude to life and especially child-rearing. They demand absolute safety in a way Europeans don't. Not sure if it is the result or the cause of the attitude that you can sue and get sued for everything.

I also think the politicization is a huge factor. Trump says the virus is no big deal, so any good liberal has to take the stance that the virus is a huge threat to everyone. I find it much easier to have a more nuanced conversation about the threat over here, because it is not a hot-button political issue.

Consider the possibility that this is the result of the political leadership in Germany vs the political leadership in the US.

Yes, it is, in the way I described, which is that the danger of the virus is being blown out of proportion in reaction to Trump's downplaying of it.

I don't think it is because Germans feel like they are in such good hands with their government, because that has no bearing on how we assess the threat the virus poses to each individual person.

You don't think that competent government leadership vs incompetent government leadership has any bearing on how people assess the threat? Huh.

Look, no "government leadership" is truly competent in covid-19 times. No one knows exactly what they are doing. No one.
If covid-19 happened during Obama, would you be screaming for the schools to be closed indefinitely, too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're both right.

But it would be nice to think, in our area, where have so many smart educated people, they could acknowledge that their reaction is emotional, and not fear-based.

It would be nice to think, in our area, where there are so many people with advanced degrees, that more people understood the idea that different people can look at the same set of facts and come up with different fact-based risk assessments.