Is skiing elitist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad grew up dirt poor and managed to ski, but he wasn't doing it in Aspen.

Skiing at the closest place (Liberty) is minimum $$125-150 PER PERSON PER DAY just for lift ticket and rentals. To say nothing of food or lodging if you wanted to stay over, or lessons. When we go to Disney and I see those dads wearing the t-shirt that says “Most Expensive Day Ever” I always think “ha! That family clearly hasn’t been skiing.”

I am European and we ski in Austria and Italy for much less.

Sure - but Europe is racially homogeneous to a far greater degree than the US.

I don't know when was the last time you were in Europe. Mohammad is the most popular name for newborns in Germany. I took a train from CDG to downtown Paris recently, and I was the only white person in that car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad grew up dirt poor and managed to ski, but he wasn't doing it in Aspen.

Skiing at the closest place (Liberty) is minimum $$125-150 PER PERSON PER DAY just for lift ticket and rentals. To say nothing of food or lodging if you wanted to stay over, or lessons. When we go to Disney and I see those dads wearing the t-shirt that says “Most Expensive Day Ever” I always think “ha! That family clearly hasn’t been skiing.”

I am European and we ski in Austria and Italy for much less.

Ok and? This board is for people who live in the DC area. It’s pretty expensive to fly to Austria or Italy from here, genius.

NP here:
The point is that skiing in the US was accessible to the middle class only 20 years ago. Now? The barrier to entry is way too high. Prices in Switzerland are cheap compared to going to the nice resorts in CO, UT, or Tahoe.

It's honestly cheaper for me to go to Geneva and ski in the French Alps for 4-5 days than it is for me to go Jackson Hole, Aspen, Vail, Telluride, etc.

Here's an example - I'm actually going to the French Alps in a couple weeks and staying 7 days:
Lift ticket: 51 euros per day
Airline ticket (roundtrip): $500 USD
Lodging: 215 euros/night and includes breakfast and dinner
Ski rental: 160 euros for 6 days (and that's the upgraded gear package)
I can take a train to the resort from the Geneva airport, so no need for a car.

For 20 euros, I can get a delicious lunch on the slopes that includes a hot meal and a beer. The quality of food is 5x better than the garbage they serve at US ski resorts.

Doing this trip at Vail, JH, or any other famous US resort would easily cost me 2-3x more. It's dumb. American skiing is for suckers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad grew up dirt poor and managed to ski, but he wasn't doing it in Aspen.

Skiing at the closest place (Liberty) is minimum $$125-150 PER PERSON PER DAY just for lift ticket and rentals. To say nothing of food or lodging if you wanted to stay over, or lessons. When we go to Disney and I see those dads wearing the t-shirt that says “Most Expensive Day Ever” I always think “ha! That family clearly hasn’t been skiing.”

I am European and we ski in Austria and Italy for much less.

Ok and? This board is for people who live in the DC area. It’s pretty expensive to fly to Austria or Italy from here, genius.

NP here:
The point is that skiing in the US was accessible to the middle class only 20 years ago. Now? The barrier to entry is way too high. Prices in Switzerland are cheap compared to going to the nice resorts in CO, UT, or Tahoe.

It's honestly cheaper for me to go to Geneva and ski in the French Alps for 4-5 days than it is for me to go Jackson Hole, Aspen, Vail, Telluride, etc.

Here's an example - I'm actually going to the French Alps in a couple weeks and staying 7 days:
Lift ticket: 51 euros per day
Airline ticket (roundtrip): $500 USD
Lodging: 215 euros/night and includes breakfast and dinner
Ski rental: 160 euros for 6 days (and that's the upgraded gear package)
I can take a train to the resort from the Geneva airport, so no need for a car.

For 20 euros, I can get a delicious lunch on the slopes that includes a hot meal and a beer. The quality of food is 5x better than the garbage they serve at US ski resorts.

Doing this trip at Vail, JH, or any other famous US resort would easily cost me 2-3x more. It's dumb. American skiing is for suckers.

I'll add that my ticket to Geneva is just $50 more than I'm paying to fly to SLC non-stop in March to go skiing with a buddy. Flying to Montana, Utah, or Colorado in the winter from DC is going to cost you at least $400-500 RT per person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad grew up dirt poor and managed to ski, but he wasn't doing it in Aspen.

Skiing at the closest place (Liberty) is minimum $$125-150 PER PERSON PER DAY just for lift ticket and rentals. To say nothing of food or lodging if you wanted to stay over, or lessons. When we go to Disney and I see those dads wearing the t-shirt that says “Most Expensive Day Ever” I always think “ha! That family clearly hasn’t been skiing.”

I am European and we ski in Austria and Italy for much less.

Ok and? This board is for people who live in the DC area. It’s pretty expensive to fly to Austria or Italy from here, genius.

NP here:
The point is that skiing in the US was accessible to the middle class only 20 years ago. Now? The barrier to entry is way too high. Prices in Switzerland are cheap compared to going to the nice resorts in CO, UT, or Tahoe.

It's honestly cheaper for me to go to Geneva and ski in the French Alps for 4-5 days than it is for me to go Jackson Hole, Aspen, Vail, Telluride, etc.

Here's an example - I'm actually going to the French Alps in a couple weeks and staying 7 days:
Lift ticket: 51 euros per day
Airline ticket (roundtrip): $500 USD
Lodging: 215 euros/night and includes breakfast and dinner
Ski rental: 160 euros for 6 days (and that's the upgraded gear package)
I can take a train to the resort from the Geneva airport, so no need for a car.

For 20 euros, I can get a delicious lunch on the slopes that includes a hot meal and a beer. The quality of food is 5x better than the garbage they serve at US ski resorts.

Doing this trip at Vail, JH, or any other famous US resort would easily cost me 2-3x more. It's dumb. American skiing is for suckers.

I'm also from Europe and while I totally agree with the above (can't believe how expensive it is not only to ski at good American resorts, but also at terrible ones like Liberty etc), all of the above is still not accessible to most people. Yes if you live right near the mountains. But if not, it's not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have older kids than yours & live in New England but here’s an estimate based on new gear. Of course you can get used stuff more cheaply if you know what you’re looking for.

Seasons pass $500-$1200
Weekend race program Dec - Mar $1800
New race skis $500-$1000 each, need at least 2 pair, GS & slalom
New poles $100-$150 each, need 2 (GS & slalom)
Race boots $300-$500
Race helmet $200-$250
Chin guard for slalom $60
Shin guards for slalom $100-$150
Pole guards for slalom $50-$100
Goggles $50-$200
New race suit $300-$600
Jacket, ski pants, mittens
Race entry fees $25-150/race
US ski & snowboard membership $150
State ski association membership

NP. My kids raced and their race program was quite a bit more than $1800, plus the cost of travel for races, plus the kids that were really good went to specialized boarding schools as teenagers. The older they got, the more elitist it became, and we were eventually priced out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad grew up dirt poor and managed to ski, but he wasn't doing it in Aspen.

Skiing at the closest place (Liberty) is minimum $$125-150 PER PERSON PER DAY just for lift ticket and rentals. To say nothing of food or lodging if you wanted to stay over, or lessons. When we go to Disney and I see those dads wearing the t-shirt that says “Most Expensive Day Ever” I always think “ha! That family clearly hasn’t been skiing.”

I am European and we ski in Austria and Italy for much less.

Ok and? This board is for people who live in the DC area. It’s pretty expensive to fly to Austria or Italy from here, genius.

NP here:
The point is that skiing in the US was accessible to the middle class only 20 years ago. Now? The barrier to entry is way too high. Prices in Switzerland are cheap compared to going to the nice resorts in CO, UT, or Tahoe.

It's honestly cheaper for me to go to Geneva and ski in the French Alps for 4-5 days than it is for me to go Jackson Hole, Aspen, Vail, Telluride, etc.

Here's an example - I'm actually going to the French Alps in a couple weeks and staying 7 days:
Lift ticket: 51 euros per day
Airline ticket (roundtrip): $500 USD
Lodging: 215 euros/night and includes breakfast and dinner
Ski rental: 160 euros for 6 days (and that's the upgraded gear package)
I can take a train to the resort from the Geneva airport, so no need for a car.

For 20 euros, I can get a delicious lunch on the slopes that includes a hot meal and a beer. The quality of food is 5x better than the garbage they serve at US ski resorts.

Doing this trip at Vail, JH, or any other famous US resort would easily cost me 2-3x more. It's dumb. American skiing is for suckers.

I'm also from Europe and while I totally agree with the above (can't believe how expensive it is not only to ski at good American resorts, but also at terrible ones like Liberty etc), all of the above is still not accessible to most people. Yes if you live right near the mountains. But if not, it's not.

+1

The terrible ski areas in the US are astronomically priced, and people that don't know any better pay it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have older kids than yours & live in New England but here’s an estimate based on new gear. Of course you can get used stuff more cheaply if you know what you’re looking for.

Seasons pass $500-$1200
Weekend race program Dec - Mar $1800
New race skis $500-$1000 each, need at least 2 pair, GS & slalom
New poles $100-$150 each, need 2 (GS & slalom)
Race boots $300-$500
Race helmet $200-$250
Chin guard for slalom $60
Shin guards for slalom $100-$150
Pole guards for slalom $50-$100
Goggles $50-$200
New race suit $300-$600
Jacket, ski pants, mittens
Race entry fees $25-150/race
US ski & snowboard membership $150
State ski association membership

NP. My kids raced and their race program was quite a bit more than $1800, plus the cost of travel for races, plus the kids that were really good went to specialized boarding schools as teenagers. The older they got, the more elitist it became, and we were eventually priced out.

I know an olympian skiier that went to boarding school (exclusively for training) in New England on scholarship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad grew up dirt poor and managed to ski, but he wasn't doing it in Aspen.

Skiing at the closest place (Liberty) is minimum $$125-150 PER PERSON PER DAY just for lift ticket and rentals. To say nothing of food or lodging if you wanted to stay over, or lessons. When we go to Disney and I see those dads wearing the t-shirt that says “Most Expensive Day Ever” I always think “ha! That family clearly hasn’t been skiing.”

I am European and we ski in Austria and Italy for much less.

Ok and? This board is for people who live in the DC area. It’s pretty expensive to fly to Austria or Italy from here, genius.

NP here:
The point is that skiing in the US was accessible to the middle class only 20 years ago. Now? The barrier to entry is way too high. Prices in Switzerland are cheap compared to going to the nice resorts in CO, UT, or Tahoe.

It's honestly cheaper for me to go to Geneva and ski in the French Alps for 4-5 days than it is for me to go Jackson Hole, Aspen, Vail, Telluride, etc.

Here's an example - I'm actually going to the French Alps in a couple weeks and staying 7 days:
Lift ticket: 51 euros per day
Airline ticket (roundtrip): $500 USD
Lodging: 215 euros/night and includes breakfast and dinner
Ski rental: 160 euros for 6 days (and that's the upgraded gear package)
I can take a train to the resort from the Geneva airport, so no need for a car.

For 20 euros, I can get a delicious lunch on the slopes that includes a hot meal and a beer. The quality of food is 5x better than the garbage they serve at US ski resorts.

Doing this trip at Vail, JH, or any other famous US resort would easily cost me 2-3x more. It's dumb. American skiing is for suckers.

I'm also from Europe and while I totally agree with the above (can't believe how expensive it is not only to ski at good American resorts, but also at terrible ones like Liberty etc), all of the above is still not accessible to most people. Yes if you live right near the mountains. But if not, it's not.

Absolutely true. I'm very lucky to be able to afford this + have a spouse who lets me indulge in this hobby.

But even the crappy local ski hills now charge $80/day for a lift ticket. Liberty is now over $100, I think. In Europe, that would be a 15 euro/day hill. I'm going to the largest interconnected resort in Europe and its only 51 euros per day. Why is anyone paying over $100 for Liberty?!? It's insane.

It helps that in Europe many of the ski resorts are still owned by the local towns or cantons. In the US, all the ski resorts are privately owned and that creates upward pressure on prices as owners try to extract maximum value. It's even worse now that the private equity industry is involved, who will take out huge sums of debt on the property.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have older kids than yours & live in New England but here’s an estimate based on new gear. Of course you can get used stuff more cheaply if you know what you’re looking for.

Seasons pass $500-$1200
Weekend race program Dec - Mar $1800
New race skis $500-$1000 each, need at least 2 pair, GS & slalom
New poles $100-$150 each, need 2 (GS & slalom)
Race boots $300-$500
Race helmet $200-$250
Chin guard for slalom $60
Shin guards for slalom $100-$150
Pole guards for slalom $50-$100
Goggles $50-$200
New race suit $300-$600
Jacket, ski pants, mittens
Race entry fees $25-150/race
US ski & snowboard membership $150
State ski association membership

NP. My kids raced and their race program was quite a bit more than $1800, plus the cost of travel for races, plus the kids that were really good went to specialized boarding schools as teenagers. The older they got, the more elitist it became, and we were eventually priced out.

I know an olympian skiier that went to boarding school (exclusively for training) in New England on scholarship.

My kid let me down! JOKING! I'm glad there's a way for really talented kids to get the training they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is Africa elitist? Cause it's expensive to get there.

Going there is.

[Anonymous]

There is no one answer to this question.

If you live in DC and you're flying to Vail it's pretty elitist. On the flip side, I went to school in VT and I knew a ton of working class families who would buy their tweens and teens a $300 youth pass and have a neighbor drop them off at the hill 3 or 4 times a week because it was cheaper than afterschool/babysitting. Some schools even have a bus to do exactly that.

Skiing in and of itself isn't necessarily elitist. An Epic Local Pass for adults is only $619 for the season. In a state with a long ski season like VT or CO that's basically the same price per month as premium cable, which nobody would call "elitist."

[Anonymous]

Who cares? Such a stupid thread. Do what you want and can afford to do. It’s none of my business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no one answer to this question.

If you live in DC and you're flying to Vail it's pretty elitist. On the flip side, I went to school in VT and I knew a ton of working class families who would buy their tweens and teens a $300 youth pass and have a neighbor drop them off at the hill 3 or 4 times a week because it was cheaper than afterschool/babysitting. Some schools even have a bus to do exactly that.

Skiing in and of itself isn't necessarily elitist. An Epic Local Pass for adults is only $619 for the season. In a state with a long ski season like VT or CO that's basically the same price per month as premium cable, which nobody would call "elitist."

Context is critical. Around my suburban town, equestrian sports are crazy pricey and seriously pursued only my affluent kids unless they are working at the barn. But out in the boondocks at my brother's house, every other kid has a horse in the back yard like a dog. It is not fancy at all to ride a horse.

Skiing is like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad grew up dirt poor and managed to ski, but he wasn't doing it in Aspen.

Skiing at the closest place (Liberty) is minimum $$125-150 PER PERSON PER DAY just for lift ticket and rentals. To say nothing of food or lodging if you wanted to stay over, or lessons. When we go to Disney and I see those dads wearing the t-shirt that says “Most Expensive Day Ever” I always think “ha! That family clearly hasn’t been skiing.”

I am European and we ski in Austria and Italy for much less.

Ok and? This board is for people who live in the DC area. It’s pretty expensive to fly to Austria or Italy from here, genius.

NP here:
The point is that skiing in the US was accessible to the middle class only 20 years ago. Now? The barrier to entry is way too high. Prices in Switzerland are cheap compared to going to the nice resorts in CO, UT, or Tahoe.

It's honestly cheaper for me to go to Geneva and ski in the French Alps for 4-5 days than it is for me to go Jackson Hole, Aspen, Vail, Telluride, etc.

Here's an example - I'm actually going to the French Alps in a couple weeks and staying 7 days:
Lift ticket: 51 euros per day
Airline ticket (roundtrip): $500 USD
Lodging: 215 euros/night and includes breakfast and dinner
Ski rental: 160 euros for 6 days (and that's the upgraded gear package)
I can take a train to the resort from the Geneva airport, so no need for a car.

For 20 euros, I can get a delicious lunch on the slopes that includes a hot meal and a beer. The quality of food is 5x better than the garbage they serve at US ski resorts.

Doing this trip at Vail, JH, or any other famous US resort would easily cost me 2-3x more. It's dumb. American skiing is for suckers.

I'll add that my ticket to Geneva is just $50 more than I'm paying to fly to SLC non-stop in March to go skiing with a buddy. Flying to Montana, Utah, or Colorado in the winter from DC is going to cost you at least $400-500 RT per person.

Honestly there is nothing more elitist than saying Vail is beneath you and you will only ski in Switzerland! Have you budgeted for a 10 day quarantine when you test positive and can't get back on your scheduled flight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yep. It’s expensive to get equipment, lessons, and the best destinations are pricey.

Depends on where you live though. Not elitist if you’re in CO

I agree, but even in CO it’s still expensive.