Residents appeal MCPS boundary changes, challenge legality of diversity focus

[Anonymous]

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NP here. Please tell me how you got the racial make up of the students who live in Cabin Branch by those numbers. There is NO racial breakdown of kids from that neighborhood (yes I live there and yes Central Office confirmed they don't have that racial breakdown).

For Seneca Valley HS, Option 11 = Option 5 + Cabin Branch. Right? So if you subtract the Option 5 numbers from the Option 11 numbers, you get Cabin Branch.

No. That's not option 11.

So what's the difference between Option 11 and Option 5, for Seneca Valley HS?

Look it up. Option 5 has all of Gibbs, option 11 has non walkers of Gibbs. Option 11 also includes rural Boyds. Option 11a was actually what was selected.

Those aren't major differences. The Gibbs (future) walkers come from couple of streets on the south side of West Old Baltimore Rd. And there's only a handful of kids from Boyds.

So ok, if you subtract Option 5 from Option 11, you don't get exactly Cabin Branch. But pretty much what you get is Cabin Branch.

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Option 11 was not selected. It was option 11a which also included Germantown.

The point is not, which was selected. The point is, who's coming from Cabin Branch (or rather, who does MCPS project to be coming from Cabin Branch). Various PPs have characterized the reassignment as race-based discrimination against white and Asian-American students. But MCPS's numbers suggest that most of the students reassigned to Neelsville/Seneca Valley from Cabin Branch are black or Hispanic.

And while MCPS's numbers might be nonsense, they're the numbers MCPS is using.

It's also quite possible that the various PPs are greatly overestimating the proportion of their Cabin Branch neighbors who are white or Asian-American.

Did you read the appeal? Not about Seneca valley.

So what?

The Cabin Branch that was reassigned to Seneca Valley HS is the same Cabin Branch as the one that was reassigned to Neelsville MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP here. Please tell me how you got the racial make up of the students who live in Cabin Branch by those numbers. There is NO racial breakdown of kids from that neighborhood (yes I live there and yes Central Office confirmed they don't have that racial breakdown).

For Seneca Valley HS, Option 11 = Option 5 + Cabin Branch. Right? So if you subtract the Option 5 numbers from the Option 11 numbers, you get Cabin Branch.

No. That's not option 11.

So what's the difference between Option 11 and Option 5, for Seneca Valley HS?

Look it up. Option 5 has all of Gibbs, option 11 has non walkers of Gibbs. Option 11 also includes rural Boyds. Option 11a was actually what was selected.

Those aren't major differences. The Gibbs (future) walkers come from couple of streets on the south side of West Old Baltimore Rd. And there's only a handful of kids from Boyds.

So ok, if you subtract Option 5 from Option 11, you don't get exactly Cabin Branch. But pretty much what you get is Cabin Branch.

.

Option 11 was not selected. It was option 11a which also included Germantown.

The point is not, which was selected. The point is, who's coming from Cabin Branch (or rather, who does MCPS project to be coming from Cabin Branch). Various PPs have characterized the reassignment as race-based discrimination against white and Asian-American students. But MCPS's numbers suggest that most of the students reassigned to Neelsville/Seneca Valley from Cabin Branch are black or Hispanic.

And while MCPS's numbers might be nonsense, they're the numbers MCPS is using.

It's also quite possible that the various PPs are greatly overestimating the proportion of their Cabin Branch neighbors who are white or Asian-American.

Did you read the appeal? Not about Seneca valley.

So what?

The Cabin Branch that was reassigned to Seneca Valley HS is the same Cabin Branch as the one that was reassigned to Neelsville MS.

Sigh. You clearly don't have enough knowledge about this study to have an educated conversation about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Did you read the appeal? Not about Seneca valley.

I've read the appeal, and what a mess it is. These are the arguments:

1. "BoE exceeded its authority under Policy FAA in reassigning boundaries for middle schools"

The claim is that BoE was not allowed to make changes to Rocky Hill/Neelsville for demography because neither school was over/under capacity or had a capital project.

2. "The boundary plan adopted by BOE is illegal, in that it was based on an illegally adopted Policy FAA"

The claim is that it's illegal because there were only 11 days between the proposal to change a sentence in the demography factor from "Options should strive to promote the creation of a diverse student body in each of the affected schools" to "Options should especially strive to create a diverse student body in each of the affected schools, in alignment with Board Policy ACD, Quality Integrated Education".

3. "The recommendation adopted was arbitrary, contrary to sound educational policy, and discriminatory, in that it was based solely or primarily on FARMS rates disparities as a proxy for racial balancing, and no policy, measure, nor scientific-based criteria for guiding the determination of adverse FARMS rates between or across schools has been established"

(To support the proxy claim, they cite data showing that county-wide, 87% of FARMS students are black or Hispanic, but that's a failure of statistical logic. To support the claim that FARMS rates are a proxy for "racial balancing," they would have need to cite data showing that a high percentage of black or Hispanic students receive FARMS.)

4. "Utilizing FARMS as a proxy for race effectively renders the middle school boundary changes unconstitutional"

The claim is that students were reassigned based on their race, which is unconstitutional racial discrimination. (Not sure how this claim applies to the black and Hispanic students who were reassigned to Neelsville.)

5. "Violation of the Open Meetings Act invalidates the boundary process"

The claim here is that the BoE may have violated the Open Meetings Act, based on something one board member said in a text message (Since the state board of education does not decide about violations of the Open Meetings Act, I don't know why they put that in.)

https://www.scribd.com/document/441610459/Appeal-of-UpCounty-Boundary-Change

I suppose they paid a lawyer to put this appeal together? I hope they didn't pay the lawyer very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Sigh. You clearly don't have enough knowledge about this study to have an educated conversation about it.

Dude. We're talking about Cabin Branch. The neighborhood that was reassigned to Neelsville Middle School and Seneca Valley High School. The neighborhood where lots of black families and Latino families live, despite rhetoric that would make you believe that it's almost entirely a white and Asian-American area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sigh. You clearly don't have enough knowledge about this study to have an educated conversation about it.

Dude. We're talking about Cabin Branch. The neighborhood that was reassigned to Neelsville Middle School and Seneca Valley High School. The neighborhood where lots of black families and Latino families live, despite rhetoric that would make you believe that it's almost entirely a white and Asian-American area.

New poster here and CB resident. So much misinformation on this board. No one in Cabin Branch would say that it is majority white and Asian. And no one would say it is majority Black and Latino.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sigh. You clearly don't have enough knowledge about this study to have an educated conversation about it.

Dude. We're talking about Cabin Branch. The neighborhood that was reassigned to Neelsville Middle School and Seneca Valley High School. The neighborhood where lots of black families and Latino families live, despite rhetoric that would make you believe that it's almost entirely a white and Asian-American area.

New poster here and CB resident. So much misinformation on this board. No one in Cabin Branch would say that it is majority white and Asian. And no one would say it is majority Black and Latino.

If it's not majority white and Asian, or majority black and Latino, then how is it racially discriminatory to send Cabin Branch kids to Neelsville instead of Rocky Hill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sigh. You clearly don't have enough knowledge about this study to have an educated conversation about it.

Dude. We're talking about Cabin Branch. The neighborhood that was reassigned to Neelsville Middle School and Seneca Valley High School. The neighborhood where lots of black families and Latino families live, despite rhetoric that would make you believe that it's almost entirely a white and Asian-American area.

New poster here and CB resident. So much misinformation on this board. No one in Cabin Branch would say that it is majority white and Asian. And no one would say it is majority Black and Latino.

If it's not majority white and Asian, or majority black and Latino, then how is it racially discriminatory to send Cabin Branch kids to Neelsville instead of Rocky Hill?

CB has tons of Asian families. Rural Boyds is majority white.

[Anonymous]

Well I personally look forward to seeing how the State BOE comes out on this. And I think it will help all of us in the county to have an answer rather than debating/arguing/getting nasty about it on DCUM and elsewhere.

Also a great opportunity for students (and all of us) to learn constitutional law and how state law in Maryland works.

I agree with this. I was trying to find the post that basically said we need to the state board to rule whether using race as factor -but not the only factor- in rezoning is acceptable. This issue is going to come up with every rezoning action that has the same similar appearance to racial balancing supported by the BOE sending out the tables showing the racial impact. The state BOE should take a position.

I worry that they will try to side step because with the Supreme Court now majority conservative and Roberts views on the issue clear from he wrote regarding the 2007 case chances are it will get knocked down. Justice Kennedy wanted a balance between fully applying the equal protection clause and allowing school systems some level of flexibility to tackle defacto segregation stemming from economic and/or housing patterns. There is no way not to use race to do this -however the line is unclear and it appears that MCPS may have stepped over that line. Roberts in the 2007 decision wanted the decision to be clearer and establish a race blind criteria. This would go further and even disallow things like deciding to place a program in a particular school based on the racial makeup of the school and doing away with any advantages URM students receive in other application processes.

A case like this getting to the Supreme Court may be inevitable and MD may try to just get as much rezoning done as possible before it all gets struck down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Well I personally look forward to seeing how the State BOE comes out on this. And I think it will help all of us in the county to have an answer rather than debating/arguing/getting nasty about it on DCUM and elsewhere.

Also a great opportunity for students (and all of us) to learn constitutional law and how state law in Maryland works.

I agree with this. I was trying to find the post that basically said we need to the state board to rule whether using race as factor -but not the only factor- in rezoning is acceptable. This issue is going to come up with every rezoning action that has the same similar appearance to racial balancing supported by the BOE sending out the tables showing the racial impact. The state BOE should take a position.

I worry that they will try to side step because with the Supreme Court now majority conservative and Roberts views on the issue clear from he wrote regarding the 2007 case chances are it will get knocked down. Justice Kennedy wanted a balance between fully applying the equal protection clause and allowing school systems some level of flexibility to tackle defacto segregation stemming from economic and/or housing patterns. There is no way not to use race to do this -however the line is unclear and it appears that MCPS may have stepped over that line. Roberts in the 2007 decision wanted the decision to be clearer and establish a race blind criteria. This would go further and even disallow things like deciding to place a program in a particular school based on the racial makeup of the school and doing away with any advantages URM students receive in other application processes.

A case like this getting to the Supreme Court may be inevitable and MD may try to just get as much rezoning done as possible before it all gets struck down.

But race was not a factor in the rezoning.

[Anonymous]

Why on earth would I move to MoCo if all three of my kids will be bused to separate schools and not make friends in the neighborhood via local school we’d walk to?

Shall stay in DC. Hope we get into SWW in two years time!

Thanks dcum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why on earth would I move to MoCo if all three of my kids will be bused to separate schools and not make friends in the neighborhood via local school we’d walk to?

Shall stay in DC. Hope we get into SWW in two years time!

Thanks dcum.

Are they triplets? Otherwise it's basically inevitable that at some point they will be at separate schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why on earth would I move to MoCo if all three of my kids will be bused to separate schools and not make friends in the neighborhood via local school we’d walk to?

Shall stay in DC. Hope we get into SWW in two years time!

Thanks dcum.

No one, absolutely no one wants you in MoCo. It's already overcrowded
Stay in DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well I personally look forward to seeing how the State BOE comes out on this. And I think it will help all of us in the county to have an answer rather than debating/arguing/getting nasty about it on DCUM and elsewhere.

Also a great opportunity for students (and all of us) to learn constitutional law and how state law in Maryland works.

I agree with this. I was trying to find the post that basically said we need to the state board to rule whether using race as factor -but not the only factor- in rezoning is acceptable. This issue is going to come up with every rezoning action that has the same similar appearance to racial balancing supported by the BOE sending out the tables showing the racial impact. The state BOE should take a position.

I worry that they will try to side step because with the Supreme Court now majority conservative and Roberts views on the issue clear from he wrote regarding the 2007 case chances are it will get knocked down. Justice Kennedy wanted a balance between fully applying the equal protection clause and allowing school systems some level of flexibility to tackle defacto segregation stemming from economic and/or housing patterns. There is no way not to use race to do this -however the line is unclear and it appears that MCPS may have stepped over that line. Roberts in the 2007 decision wanted the decision to be clearer and establish a race blind criteria. This would go further and even disallow things like deciding to place a program in a particular school based on the racial makeup of the school and doing away with any advantages URM students receive in other application processes.

A case like this getting to the Supreme Court may be inevitable and MD may try to just get as much rezoning done as possible before it all gets struck down.

But race was not a factor in the rezoning.

It’s in the policy. A case like this is only a matter of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why on earth would I move to MoCo if all three of my kids will be bused to separate schools and not make friends in the neighborhood via local school we’d walk to?

Shall stay in DC. Hope we get into SWW in two years time!

Thanks dcum.

You are making a wise choice. Regret our move from DC to close in MoCo neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sigh. You clearly don't have enough knowledge about this study to have an educated conversation about it.

Dude. We're talking about Cabin Branch. The neighborhood that was reassigned to Neelsville Middle School and Seneca Valley High School. The neighborhood where lots of black families and Latino families live, despite rhetoric that would make you believe that it's almost entirely a white and Asian-American area.

New poster here and CB resident. So much misinformation on this board. No one in Cabin Branch would say that it is majority white and Asian. And no one would say it is majority Black and Latino.

If it's not majority white and Asian, or majority black and Latino, then how is it racially discriminatory to send Cabin Branch kids to Neelsville instead of Rocky Hill?

It is definitely not majority black, Hispanic, or white.