New study on relative impact of Harvard Admissions Preferences

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of Asians vs Rich White legacy folks they both cheat to get in.

High ACT/SAT scores can be manipulated as well as GPA. Which Asians are often experts at.

Blacks, Spanish and non connected whites lose spots to the well off whites and Asians.

ACT is a joke, anyone who takes it 3-6 times and pay for expensive tutors can get a 34-36. AP classes are a joke as teachers fear giving less than an A and with tutors anyone can shine. Volunteer work is a joke as poor cant afford to do it.

Try going to a crappy HS with no AP and parents on welfare. Would love to see average score of so called Tiger Moms kids if they had to do it in that environment.

I disagree intensely with the white supremacist anti-affirmative action posters and feel pity for the Asian-Americans who think the Nazis are their friends. But, it's pretty stupid to say that all Asians are rich or cheat. At the majority Asian-American specialized high schools that send a lot of students to elite schools like Harvard (e.g. Lowell in San Francisco or Stuyvesant in NYC), most of the Asian-American students are poor enough to qualify for free/reduced lunch. Some of the top students in DC public schools are Asian-Americans who live in Chinatown's Mansion Square (4th and K NW), which is a project-based Section 8 building.

It’s really obscene for some DCUM leftists to characterize an anti-affirmative action position as a white supremecist view. Worse is to characterize Asians who take this stance as Nazis. Do you even know what Jews experienced during WW2 for you to use this term so loosely? Just because someone disagree with you doesn’t mean they are Nazis. Get real.

Here's a solution: don't talk about affirmative action in the college forum, since affirmative action has nothing to do with colleges or college admissions.

Here's a solution: drop that BS, invest your brainpower in something more worthy, and earn your college spot on the merits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Asian Americans were not slaves, but experienced everything else and were also subject to concentration camps during WWII.


No, only Japanese were persecuted. It looks like the hardship only made them more motivated to be high stats and aspire to get into ivies, look at the % of kids with top SAT scores. It's a cultural difference, the parents push these kids from early on, tutoring, ECs, making them responsible for the success of the whole family. They are not smarter than any other race, they are just harder-working. The others say "you don't have to work harder, just smarter". I don't know which one is better. In the end, only having a fun secure job, enough money for a house, a car and a vacation should be enough. I think they work that hard not because they like it that much but because they are insecure.

Immigrants and relatively recent arrivals tend to work hard. Those who’ve been here longer might think they are working “smarter” by relying on affirmative action and EEO. Then they get crushed even by H1Bs in this hi-tech, global economy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of Asians vs Rich White legacy folks they both cheat to get in.

High ACT/SAT scores can be manipulated as well as GPA. Which Asians are often experts at.

Blacks, Spanish and non connected whites lose spots to the well off whites and Asians.

ACT is a joke, anyone who takes it 3-6 times and pay for expensive tutors can get a 34-36. AP classes are a joke as teachers fear giving less than an A and with tutors anyone can shine. Volunteer work is a joke as poor cant afford to do it.

Try going to a crappy HS with no AP and parents on welfare. Would love to see average score of so called Tiger Moms kids if they had to do it in that environment.

I disagree intensely with the white supremacist anti-affirmative action posters and feel pity for the Asian-Americans who think the Nazis are their friends. But, it's pretty stupid to say that all Asians are rich or cheat. At the majority Asian-American specialized high schools that send a lot of students to elite schools like Harvard (e.g. Lowell in San Francisco or Stuyvesant in NYC), most of the Asian-American students are poor enough to qualify for free/reduced lunch. Some of the top students in DC public schools are Asian-Americans who live in Chinatown's Mansion Square (4th and K NW), which is a project-based Section 8 building.

It’s really obscene for some DCUM leftists to characterize an anti-affirmative action position as a white supremecist view. Worse is to characterize Asians who take this stance as Nazis. Do you even know what Jews experienced during WW2 for you to use this term so loosely? Just because someone disagree with you doesn’t mean they are Nazis. Get real.

Here's a solution: don't talk about affirmative action in the college forum, since affirmative action has nothing to do with colleges or college admissions.

Here's a solution: drop that BS, invest your brainpower in something more worthy, and earn your college spot on the merits.

Why is it BS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of Asians vs Rich White legacy folks they both cheat to get in.

High ACT/SAT scores can be manipulated as well as GPA. Which Asians are often experts at.

Blacks, Spanish and non connected whites lose spots to the well off whites and Asians.

ACT is a joke, anyone who takes it 3-6 times and pay for expensive tutors can get a 34-36. AP classes are a joke as teachers fear giving less than an A and with tutors anyone can shine. Volunteer work is a joke as poor cant afford to do it.

Try going to a crappy HS with no AP and parents on welfare. Would love to see average score of so called Tiger Moms kids if they had to do it in that environment.

I disagree intensely with the white supremacist anti-affirmative action posters and feel pity for the Asian-Americans who think the Nazis are their friends. But, it's pretty stupid to say that all Asians are rich or cheat. At the majority Asian-American specialized high schools that send a lot of students to elite schools like Harvard (e.g. Lowell in San Francisco or Stuyvesant in NYC), most of the Asian-American students are poor enough to qualify for free/reduced lunch. Some of the top students in DC public schools are Asian-Americans who live in Chinatown's Mansion Square (4th and K NW), which is a project-based Section 8 building.

It’s really obscene for some DCUM leftists to characterize an anti-affirmative action position as a white supremecist view. Worse is to characterize Asians who take this stance as Nazis. Do you even know what Jews experienced during WW2 for you to use this term so loosely? Just because someone disagree with you doesn’t mean they are Nazis. Get real.

Here's a solution: don't talk about affirmative action in the college forum, since affirmative action has nothing to do with colleges or college admissions.

Affirmative action is central to college admissions....it extends handicaps to URMs in the admissions process.

No, it is not. Colleges don't (with a few exceptions) practice affirmative action, which by definition is "the practice or policy of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously."

What colleges do is seek a racial balance among their cohort that to some degree mirrors the general population. They feel this helps them better achieve their mission and goals. You can disagree with them that they SHOULD -- but calling it affirmative action is disingenuous at best, and purposefully misleading at worst.

How about a racial balance in the nba and nfl? I’d like to see some nerdy Jewish professor and geeky Asian medical doctor types breaking all the stereotypes.

God this is always the stupidest example. You should stop using it, seriously. But I will try and answer:

If NFL and NBA owners believed a racial balance would better help them achieve their goals, they would do it immediately.

And if a racial balance would help colleges and universities, they would do it immediately without affirmative action. Despite affirmative action, blacks and Hispanics still lag behind at elite colleges and universities. And even at Harvard which is supposedly 15% black, if you break the stats down to US born and raised African-Americans, foreign blacks (full pay), biracials (affluent) you might find that Harvard is using affirmative action because it fits its own agenda of helping itself. They provide very little aid to truly deserving African-Americans.

And if a racial balance would help colleges and universities, they would do it immediately without affirmative action

And that is why they do it that way now.

"Deserving" on what categories?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of Asians vs Rich White legacy folks they both cheat to get in.

High ACT/SAT scores can be manipulated as well as GPA. Which Asians are often experts at.

Blacks, Spanish and non connected whites lose spots to the well off whites and Asians.

ACT is a joke, anyone who takes it 3-6 times and pay for expensive tutors can get a 34-36. AP classes are a joke as teachers fear giving less than an A and with tutors anyone can shine. Volunteer work is a joke as poor cant afford to do it.

Try going to a crappy HS with no AP and parents on welfare. Would love to see average score of so called Tiger Moms kids if they had to do it in that environment.

I disagree intensely with the white supremacist anti-affirmative action posters and feel pity for the Asian-Americans who think the Nazis are their friends. But, it's pretty stupid to say that all Asians are rich or cheat. At the majority Asian-American specialized high schools that send a lot of students to elite schools like Harvard (e.g. Lowell in San Francisco or Stuyvesant in NYC), most of the Asian-American students are poor enough to qualify for free/reduced lunch. Some of the top students in DC public schools are Asian-Americans who live in Chinatown's Mansion Square (4th and K NW), which is a project-based Section 8 building.

It’s really obscene for some DCUM leftists to characterize an anti-affirmative action position as a white supremecist view. Worse is to characterize Asians who take this stance as Nazis. Do you even know what Jews experienced during WW2 for you to use this term so loosely? Just because someone disagree with you doesn’t mean they are Nazis. Get real.

Here's a solution: don't talk about affirmative action in the college forum, since affirmative action has nothing to do with colleges or college admissions.

Affirmative action is central to college admissions....it extends handicaps to URMs in the admissions process.

No, it is not. Colleges don't (with a few exceptions) practice affirmative action, which by definition is "the practice or policy of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously."

What colleges do is seek a racial balance among their cohort that to some degree mirrors the general population. They feel this helps them better achieve their mission and goals. You can disagree with them that they SHOULD -- but calling it affirmative action is disingenuous at best, and purposefully misleading at worst.

How about a racial balance in the nba and nfl? I’d like to see some nerdy Jewish professor and geeky Asian medical doctor types breaking all the stereotypes.

God this is always the stupidest example. You should stop using it, seriously. But I will try and answer:

If NFL and NBA owners believed a racial balance would better help them achieve their goals, they would do it immediately.

And if a racial balance would help colleges and universities, they would do it immediately without affirmative action. Despite affirmative action, blacks and Hispanics still lag behind at elite colleges and universities. And even at Harvard which is supposedly 15% black, if you break the stats down to US born and raised African-Americans, foreign blacks (full pay), biracials (affluent) you might find that Harvard is using affirmative action because it fits its own agenda of helping itself. They provide very little aid to truly deserving African-Americans.

And if a racial balance would help colleges and universities, they would do it immediately without affirmative action

And that is why they do it that way now.

"Deserving" on what categories?

Harvard and others are just using affirmative action for their own benefit. Affirmative action is designed to give a bump for those who were left behind because of past injustices in this country. How is taking in privileged foreign blacks from Africa and the Caribbean (full pay) and biracial blacks (affluent) helping the descendants of slavery, US born and raised African Americans? Meanwhile US born and raised African-American men are disproportionately sent to prisons in this country. This kind of affirmative action creates a skewed impression that all is well in the African American community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of Asians vs Rich White legacy folks they both cheat to get in.

High ACT/SAT scores can be manipulated as well as GPA. Which Asians are often experts at.

Blacks, Spanish and non connected whites lose spots to the well off whites and Asians.

ACT is a joke, anyone who takes it 3-6 times and pay for expensive tutors can get a 34-36. AP classes are a joke as teachers fear giving less than an A and with tutors anyone can shine. Volunteer work is a joke as poor cant afford to do it.

Try going to a crappy HS with no AP and parents on welfare. Would love to see average score of so called Tiger Moms kids if they had to do it in that environment.

I disagree intensely with the white supremacist anti-affirmative action posters and feel pity for the Asian-Americans who think the Nazis are their friends. But, it's pretty stupid to say that all Asians are rich or cheat. At the majority Asian-American specialized high schools that send a lot of students to elite schools like Harvard (e.g. Lowell in San Francisco or Stuyvesant in NYC), most of the Asian-American students are poor enough to qualify for free/reduced lunch. Some of the top students in DC public schools are Asian-Americans who live in Chinatown's Mansion Square (4th and K NW), which is a project-based Section 8 building.

It’s really obscene for some DCUM leftists to characterize an anti-affirmative action position as a white supremecist view. Worse is to characterize Asians who take this stance as Nazis. Do you even know what Jews experienced during WW2 for you to use this term so loosely? Just because someone disagree with you doesn’t mean they are Nazis. Get real.

Here's a solution: don't talk about affirmative action in the college forum, since affirmative action has nothing to do with colleges or college admissions.

Affirmative action is central to college admissions....it extends handicaps to URMs in the admissions process.

No, it is not. Colleges don't (with a few exceptions) practice affirmative action, which by definition is "the practice or policy of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously."

What colleges do is seek a racial balance among their cohort that to some degree mirrors the general population. They feel this helps them better achieve their mission and goals. You can disagree with them that they SHOULD -- but calling it affirmative action is disingenuous at best, and purposefully misleading at worst.

How about a racial balance in the nba and nfl? I’d like to see some nerdy Jewish professor and geeky Asian medical doctor types breaking all the stereotypes.

God this is always the stupidest example. You should stop using it, seriously. But I will try and answer:

If NFL and NBA owners believed a racial balance would better help them achieve their goals, they would do it immediately.

And if a racial balance would help colleges and universities, they would do it immediately without affirmative action. Despite affirmative action, blacks and Hispanics still lag behind at elite colleges and universities. And even at Harvard which is supposedly 15% black, if you break the stats down to US born and raised African-Americans, foreign blacks (full pay), biracials (affluent) you might find that Harvard is using affirmative action because it fits its own agenda of helping itself. They provide very little aid to truly deserving African-Americans.

And if a racial balance would help colleges and universities, they would do it immediately without affirmative action

And that is why they do it that way now.

"Deserving" on what categories?

Harvard and others are just using affirmative action for their own benefit. Affirmative action is designed to give a bump for those who were left behind because of past injustices in this country. How is taking in privileged foreign blacks from Africa and the Caribbean (full pay) and biracial blacks (affluent) helping the descendants of slavery, US born and raised African Americans? Meanwhile US born and raised African-American men are disproportionately sent to prisons in this country. This kind of affirmative action creates a skewed impression that all is well in the African American community.

This is what people have been trying to explain but no one seems to get.

Colleges seek racial balances in admissions, across all races, to better help them achieve their mission. It is NOT affirmative action. It does not seek to do the things you claim -- it does not seek to "give a bump for those who were left behind because of past injustices in this country".

If any one race stopped applying to Harvard their admit rate would skyrocket, regardless of past historical injustices to that race (or lack thereof).

This must be understood to discuss this topic properly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the case of Asians vs Rich White legacy folks they both cheat to get in.

High ACT/SAT scores can be manipulated as well as GPA. Which Asians are often experts at.

Blacks, Spanish and non connected whites lose spots to the well off whites and Asians.

ACT is a joke, anyone who takes it 3-6 times and pay for expensive tutors can get a 34-36. AP classes are a joke as teachers fear giving less than an A and with tutors anyone can shine. Volunteer work is a joke as poor cant afford to do it.

Try going to a crappy HS with no AP and parents on welfare. Would love to see average score of so called Tiger Moms kids if they had to do it in that environment.

I disagree intensely with the white supremacist anti-affirmative action posters and feel pity for the Asian-Americans who think the Nazis are their friends. But, it's pretty stupid to say that all Asians are rich or cheat. At the majority Asian-American specialized high schools that send a lot of students to elite schools like Harvard (e.g. Lowell in San Francisco or Stuyvesant in NYC), most of the Asian-American students are poor enough to qualify for free/reduced lunch. Some of the top students in DC public schools are Asian-Americans who live in Chinatown's Mansion Square (4th and K NW), which is a project-based Section 8 building.

It’s really obscene for some DCUM leftists to characterize an anti-affirmative action position as a white supremecist view. Worse is to characterize Asians who take this stance as Nazis. Do you even know what Jews experienced during WW2 for you to use this term so loosely? Just because someone disagree with you doesn’t mean they are Nazis. Get real.

Here's a solution: don't talk about affirmative action in the college forum, since affirmative action has nothing to do with colleges or college admissions.

Affirmative action is central to college admissions....it extends handicaps to URMs in the admissions process.

No, it is not. Colleges don't (with a few exceptions) practice affirmative action, which by definition is "the practice or policy of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously."

What colleges do is seek a racial balance among their cohort that to some degree mirrors the general population. They feel this helps them better achieve their mission and goals. You can disagree with them that they SHOULD -- but calling it affirmative action is disingenuous at best, and purposefully misleading at worst.

How about a racial balance in the nba and nfl? I’d like to see some nerdy Jewish professor and geeky Asian medical doctor types breaking all the stereotypes.

God this is always the stupidest example. You should stop using it, seriously. But I will try and answer:

If NFL and NBA owners believed a racial balance would better help them achieve their goals, they would do it immediately.

That’s why the market will not pay affirmative action ivy grads more than they are worth, at about state university grads. If they were more valuable, employers would be stupid to underpay them.

[Anonymous]

Or racism could be a real barrier to higher wages. Maybe when multiple generations of Asian fail to perform as well as whites we can put this to bed. For the white racist on this thread, there is no winning with you.

Your also not considering the Ivy URM often choose to give back to their community like Obama and forgo the opportunity to make $$. Therefore the averages are lower but for those that choose to go into lucrative professions they do ok. I know it’s antidotal ... there are no studies separating Ivy graduates that choose to go into lucrative professions from the 60-70% that don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All schools should scrap legacy and children of faculty and staff admits.

All schools should scrap handicapping URM applicants.

All applicants who disagree with holistic admissions should apply elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or racism could be a real barrier to higher wages. Maybe when multiple generations of Asian fail to perform as well as whites we can put this to bed. For the white racist on this thread, there is no winning with you.

Your also not considering the Ivy URM often choose to give back to their community like Obama and forgo the opportunity to make $$. Therefore the averages are lower but for those that choose to go into lucrative professions they do ok. I know it’s antidotal ... there are no studies separating Ivy graduates that choose to go into lucrative professions from the 60-70% that don’t.

Obama is biracial who never should have taken a spot from a deserving African American student whose ancestors suffered slavery. His father was a Kenyan (Ivy grad), not an African-American who many have suffered debilitating consequences of racism in this country. Obama also reportedly received $500,000 from his white grandma at her death. Talk about privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All schools should scrap legacy and children of faculty and staff admits.

All schools should scrap handicapping URM applicants.

All applicants who disagree with holistic should apply elsewhere.

All applicants who disagree with holistic job evaluation should apply elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All schools should scrap legacy and children of faculty and staff admits.

All schools should scrap handicapping URM applicants.

All applicants who disagree with holistic admissions should apply elsewhere.

Holistic admissions is fine, racial quotas and race-based handicaps are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All schools should scrap legacy and children of faculty and staff admits.

All schools should scrap handicapping URM applicants.

All applicants who disagree with holistic admissions should apply elsewhere.

Holistic admissions is fine, racial quotas and race-based handicaps are not.

Holistic admissions is fine as are post-college holistic evaluations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or racism could be a real barrier to higher wages. Maybe when multiple generations of Asian fail to perform as well as whites we can put this to bed. For the white racist on this thread, there is no winning with you.

Your also not considering the Ivy URM often choose to give back to their community like Obama and forgo the opportunity to make $$. Therefore the averages are lower but for those that choose to go into lucrative professions they do ok. I know it’s antidotal ... there are no studies separating Ivy graduates that choose to go into lucrative professions from the 60-70% that don’t.

Obama is biracial who never should have taken a spot from a deserving African American student whose ancestors suffered slavery. His father was a Kenyan (Ivy grad), not an African-American who many have suffered debilitating consequences of racism in this country. Obama also reportedly received $500,000 from his white grandma at her death. Talk about privilege.

Affirmative action is NOT to socio economic standing and it’s actually counter productive to argue that only poor blacks schools be entitled to it. Such lines of thinking require every generation to start at zero and reinvent the wheel. White families are definitely not doing that. How does that improve social inequality?? So what that Obama is half white?? Michelle is not. What difference does that make??

A black person

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or racism could be a real barrier to higher wages. Maybe when multiple generations of Asian fail to perform as well as whites we can put this to bed. For the white racist on this thread, there is no winning with you.

Your also not considering the Ivy URM often choose to give back to their community like Obama and forgo the opportunity to make $$. Therefore the averages are lower but for those that choose to go into lucrative professions they do ok. I know it’s antidotal ... there are no studies separating Ivy graduates that choose to go into lucrative professions from the 60-70% that don’t.

Obama is biracial who never should have taken a spot from a deserving African American student whose ancestors suffered slavery. His father was a Kenyan (Ivy grad), not an African-American who many have suffered debilitating consequences of racism in this country. Obama also reportedly received $500,000 from his white grandma at her death. Talk about privilege.

Did you read the post above at 10/18/2019 13:09?

Racial consideration in college admissions has nothing to do with reparations for slavery. It is not affirmative action.