The Other VA publics: CNU, GM, JMU, Radford, ODU, UMW, VCU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:This thread really feels like it's deteriorated to "mine is bigger than yours" quality.

That's not the intent. The intent is honesty on an anonymous board. No kid with UVA caliber stats wants to go to JMU. Or VCU. Or GMU. You get the picture. They just plain don't. You need a very strong record for UVA, and the kids who work hard enough (or are blessed enough intellectually) to accumulate that record are simply aiming higher than the other schools. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the other schools; it's just reality.

But actually, I said earlier that my daughter prefers JMU and is not interested in UVA.

+1
My son actually did apply to W&M and UVA (because we insisted he apply to most of the VA schools). He was admitted to both, as well as Tech, but chose JMU because he absolutely loved it. The smartest kids are the ones who decide where they'll be most happy, period.

My son's best friend, who had very high stats, was admitted to UVA, W&M & JMU (and some other schools as well.) He chose JMU because they gave him significant merit aid. He didn't get any from UVA. He'll graduate without any student loans - I think that makes him a very smart kid!

Could have saved more at a community college. That would have been really smart. Or do you think some educations are better than others?

Not sure why I'm still responding to what's clearly a troll, but if a kid wants to get core classes out of the way at Nova before transferring elsewhere to complete a BA, yes, I think that's smart.

Sorry, I was snarky. Apologies. Not trolling. Just pointing out that people often value low cost but then draw the line somewhere above CC. You seemed to think the kid was so smart for taking a low-cost approach. I was merely saying that there’s an even lower-cost approach and genuinely wondering if you thought that would be yet smarter. My point is that the kid isn’t smart for making that choice, unless it was the right choice for him. Otherwise anyone who makes the UVA choice is being dumb.

[Anonymous]

The smarter choice would have been to go to community college and transfer to UVA. Less expensive and you still end up with the UVA instead of JMU degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread really feels like it's deteriorated to "mine is bigger than yours" quality.

That's not the intent. The intent is honesty on an anonymous board. No kid with UVA caliber stats wants to go to JMU. Or VCU. Or GMU. You get the picture. They just plain don't. You need a very strong record for UVA, and the kids who work hard enough (or are blessed enough intellectually) to accumulate that record are simply aiming higher than the other schools. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the other schools; it's just reality.

But actually, I said earlier that my daughter prefers JMU and is not interested in UVA.

+1
My son actually did apply to W&M and UVA (because we insisted he apply to most of the VA schools). He was admitted to both, as well as Tech, but chose JMU because he absolutely loved it. The smartest kids are the ones who decide where they'll be most happy, period.

My best friend from high school was admitted to JMU, UVA, and W&M, and graduated from JMU. He loved it and was a HUGE fan (he passed away recently). I think he viewed the choice as being an expression of his independence from conformity. That said, I did hear him speculate a couple of times on what it would have been like had he gone to W&M, so I'm not sure he completely escaped the weight of expectations. The best advice, which is probably tough to follow due to human nature, is to make your choice and don't look back. College won't (or at least shouldn't) define you. In the high tech field I work in, no one ever really talks about Alma Maters in a professional sense after the initial hire.

To get back to the crux of this thread, there has been analysis that shows that choice of major has more impact on future earnings than the college. So there can be good paths through the "Second Tier" schools. Another report from the same group also shows that the mix of majors at different colleges can explain differences in future earnings (rather than the institutions themselves). The links are below:


https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/5rules/#full-report
"Five Rules of the College and Career Game shows that more education is usually better, but majors matter more. College is less about the institution name and more about the field of study."

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/college-rankings/#interactive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a told my DD there is a school out there for everyone. The super elite schools can only take so many kids each year.

Some kids (like mine) knew early in high school that she didn't want to get into the rat race. I applaud those kids and parents who have endured it and I wish them all the best when the decisions roll out.

She has had an awesome HS experience without constantly stressing about AP test, SAT scores and class rank.

I have no doubt she will be successful at her less selective school with rolling admissions.

FYI - It is also possible to have received ED results by now from some schools (Wake Forest) so presumption of an acceptance to a school will rolling admissions is misplaced.

+1,000 to all of the above.

Incorrect. ED1 at Wake Forest IS rolling admissions. Why do they have rolling admissions? Only the schools that need to having rolling do it. The average ACT and GPA at Wake Forest are much lower than most of the VA schools discussed in this thread.

The flip side is Wake Forest admission rate and USNews rankings are about the same as UVA as is its ranking in USNews. It does well in other rankings like future earnings. So even if Wake is pulling some levers in the admission game, it isn't hurting it in that sense. Wake is test optional now, which probably helps on standardized test averages, but that is a trend that is likely to grow (University of Chicago announced that path recently), and as a private school it isn't as bound as UVA and W&M to focus on transcripts.

The point is, if you have a child that wants to explore options out of Virginia (and you can afford it), or wasn't accepted to W&M or UVA and wants to look at options elsewhere that have some prestige in addition to the other options in-state, there are other routes.

[Anonymous]

Go big or go home.

[Anonymous]

Agree or disagree?

Since undergrad is the new "high school" -- and graduate degrees are now expected, it doesn't matter as much where you go to undergrad. It's your grad school that will open doors.

(FWIW, this is how it worked for me 25 yrs ago. Went to big state U., did well on grad entrance exam, got into top 10 law school. No one cares about undergrad. It's the grad school name that people ask about.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could have saved more at a community college. That would have been really smart. Or do you think some educations are better than others?

I don't know why I am feeding the troll, but you cannot possibly believe that this response advances the thread in any meaningful way.

Like you just did, dummy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My best friend from high school was admitted to JMU, UVA, and W&M, and graduated from JMU. He loved it and was a HUGE fan (he passed away recently). I think he viewed the choice as being an expression of his independence from conformity. That said, I did hear him speculate a couple of times on what it would have been like had he gone to W&M, so I'm not sure he completely escaped the weight of expectations. The best advice, which is probably tough to follow due to human nature, is to make your choice and don't look back. College won't (or at least shouldn't) define you. In the high tech field I work in, no one ever really talks about Alma Maters in a professional sense after the initial hire.

Just wanted to say sorry for the loss of your best friend.

When I read what you said about your friend viewing his decision as an expression of independence from conformity to attend JMU vs. UVA/W&M, this struck a chord with me about how my daughter views things but hasn't quite fully articulated (she's the one who has a fair chance at getting in UVA but not at all interested even though she hasn't actually visited. And did not like W&M after visiting.) That's totally her M.O. She's so independently-minded and always has been. Never one to do something because everyone else it. I think this hit the nail on the head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree or disagree?

Since undergrad is the new "high school" -- and graduate degrees are now expected, it doesn't matter as much where you go to undergrad. It's your grad school that will open doors.

(FWIW, this is how it worked for me 25 yrs ago. Went to big state U., did well on grad entrance exam, got into top 10 law school. No one cares about undergrad. It's the grad school name that people ask about.)

There is certainly some truth in that. But one of the secrets of the top schools (think Ivy, Duke, etc.) is that the average GPAs are really high (3.5+), which can make graduate school admission easier. Those schools may justify it by saying they are all stellar students so they should get As, but there is no doubt many of those schools have had the highest grade inflation. They also get recruited more by blue chip Wall Street and consulting firms. So the upshot is the representation of students from top schools at many top graduate schools (e.g. Yale Law) is pretty high.

UVA Law publishes top undergraduate institutions in its entering classes and you can see some of that there (although it is much more democratic than Yale Law). Among the state universities for the past couple of years UVA leads with 39 students, W&M (which is much smaller than UVA) had 22, Virginia Tech and VCU had 6, and the others didn't make the cutoff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My best friend from high school was admitted to JMU, UVA, and W&M, and graduated from JMU. He loved it and was a HUGE fan (he passed away recently). I think he viewed the choice as being an expression of his independence from conformity. That said, I did hear him speculate a couple of times on what it would have been like had he gone to W&M, so I'm not sure he completely escaped the weight of expectations. The best advice, which is probably tough to follow due to human nature, is to make your choice and don't look back. College won't (or at least shouldn't) define you. In the high tech field I work in, no one ever really talks about Alma Maters in a professional sense after the initial hire.

Just wanted to say sorry for the loss of your best friend.

When I read what you said about your friend viewing his decision as an expression of independence from conformity to attend JMU vs. UVA/W&M, this struck a chord with me about how my daughter views things but hasn't quite fully articulated (she's the one who has a fair chance at getting in UVA but not at all interested even though she hasn't actually visited. And did not like W&M after visiting.) That's totally her M.O. She's so independently-minded and always has been. Never one to do something because everyone else it. I think this hit the nail on the head.

If a school other than UVA and W&M is doing something right and better at the undergraduate level, it would be good for the system for some top students to go there. Otherwise, it will encourage complacency.

[Anonymous]

OP here.
Sigh.
Let's try this again, shall we?
I think there is more than enough love, praise, high regard, etc. for UVA, W&M, and to an ever-so-slightly lesser extent, V Tech.

It is precisely because these three school are so dominant in most discussions that I wanted to create a thread that would allow for discussion about the other public colleges and universities in VA.

I accept that for some people (and at least one particularly persistent PP in particular) these schools are not worthy of discussion or consideration. I accept that might be your opinion.

There are also thousands of students attending these other VA publics, so for whatever reason (whether you UVA booster agree with it or not) students are attending these schools, and certainly there must be some people with juniors and seniors who are considering these schools.

I wanted to create a thread that would allow for discussion about these schools. I respectfully ask the UVA booster to please exit the thread. (Yes, I know it's an anonymous public forum and I can not force you, hence my respectful request.)

For folks still interested in discussing these other publics, my family is going on a tour of George Mason tomorrow. I'll report back after the visit. (Only other time I've been on the campus was to drive to the area for a concert at night--just a straight drive to parking lot, so this will be my first impression.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
Sigh.
Let's try this again, shall we?
I think there is more than enough love, praise, high regard, etc. for UVA, W&M, and to an ever-so-slightly lesser extent, V Tech.

It is precisely because these three school are so dominant in most discussions that I wanted to create a thread that would allow for discussion about the other public colleges and universities in VA.

I accept that for some people (and at least one particularly persistent PP in particular) these schools are not worthy of discussion or consideration. I accept that might be your opinion.

There are also thousands of students attending these other VA publics, so for whatever reason (whether you UVA booster agree with it or not) students are attending these schools, and certainly there must be some people with juniors and seniors who are considering these schools.

I wanted to create a thread that would allow for discussion about these schools. I respectfully ask the UVA booster to please exit the thread. (Yes, I know it's an anonymous public forum and I can not force you, hence my respectful request.)

For folks still interested in discussing these other publics, my family is going on a tour of George Mason tomorrow. I'll report back after the visit. (Only other time I've been on the campus was to drive to the area for a concert at night--just a straight drive to parking lot, so this will be my first impression.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My best friend from high school was admitted to JMU, UVA, and W&M, and graduated from JMU. He loved it and was a HUGE fan (he passed away recently). I think he viewed the choice as being an expression of his independence from conformity. That said, I did hear him speculate a couple of times on what it would have been like had he gone to W&M, so I'm not sure he completely escaped the weight of expectations. The best advice, which is probably tough to follow due to human nature, is to make your choice and don't look back. College won't (or at least shouldn't) define you. In the high tech field I work in, no one ever really talks about Alma Maters in a professional sense after the initial hire.

Just wanted to say sorry for the loss of your best friend.

When I read what you said about your friend viewing his decision as an expression of independence from conformity to attend JMU vs. UVA/W&M, this struck a chord with me about how my daughter views things but hasn't quite fully articulated (she's the one who has a fair chance at getting in UVA but not at all interested even though she hasn't actually visited. And did not like W&M after visiting.) That's totally her M.O. She's so independently-minded and always has been. Never one to do something because everyone else it. I think this hit the nail on the head.

Or she's a borderline applicant who is risk averse

[Anonymous]

Our D is a senior in MD (MCPS) and does not have the stats for either UVA or W&M. Even if she did I don't think she would apply to either. Not the right fit for her and expensive.

She is applying to both JMU and VT. She is also applying to UMD but is borderline to get in and she also doesn't love the school (too large and too close to home and surrounding town is not good).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
Sigh.
Let's try this again, shall we?
I think there is more than enough love, praise, high regard, etc. for UVA, W&M, and to an ever-so-slightly lesser extent, V Tech.

It is precisely because these three school are so dominant in most discussions that I wanted to create a thread that would allow for discussion about the other public colleges and universities in VA.

I accept that for some people (and at least one particularly persistent PP in particular) these schools are not worthy of discussion or consideration. I accept that might be your opinion.

There are also thousands of students attending these other VA publics, so for whatever reason (whether you UVA booster agree with it or not) students are attending these schools, and certainly there must be some people with juniors and seniors who are considering these schools.

I wanted to create a thread that would allow for discussion about these schools. I respectfully ask the UVA booster to please exit the thread. (Yes, I know it's an anonymous public forum and I can not force you, hence my respectful request.)

For folks still interested in discussing these other publics, my family is going on a tour of George Mason tomorrow. I'll report back after the visit. (Only other time I've been on the campus was to drive to the area for a concert at night--just a straight drive to parking lot, so this will be my first impression.)

Behold, UVA is so powerful it can dominate discussions even when it not the subject of the discussion!!!!