Is Nottingham going to be the new option school in Arlington or its still being decided?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the comment was viewed as offensive because it used FARMS as a noun.

Oh dear god. He actually said it was racist because of assumptions I made about FARMS kids which are actually just data, and are directly spoken of by the PTA in a Post article, but whatever. Live in whatever world pleases you.

and you assume I"m a "he". Is that because I have a doctoral degree or run a company?

Again, back to facts. nationally, poverty is a white issue. Your racist assumptions are false and I call you out for what you are. Yes, I"m a outlier...and I want the outliers in ARL to thrive. I want you to leave.

NP here, you realize we are talking about a specific area in Arlington that has specific demographics, right? We are not talking about a school district in central PA where most of the kids living in poverty are white English speakers. Arguing about the typical benefit recipient nation wide does nothing to address the issues faced in Randolph.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the comment was viewed as offensive because it used FARMS as a noun.

Oh dear god. He actually said it was racist because of assumptions I made about FARMS kids which are actually just data, and are directly spoken of by the PTA in a Post article, but whatever. Live in whatever world pleases you.

and you assume I"m a "he". Is that because I have a doctoral degree or run a company?

Again, back to facts. nationally, poverty is a white issue. Your racist assumptions are false and I call you out for what you are. Yes, I"m a outlier...and I want the outliers in ARL to thrive. I want you to leave.

NP here. It's great that you're so smart and have been such a success story PP. But what do we care about what poverty means "nationally?" We're talking about Arlington Co schools here, specifically one or two in S Arlington. If you don't see a problem with 80% of Kindergarten kids having limited English proficiency then ...nothing we say will convince you there's an issue. I get that you want to live in an uber-liberal oasis where parents put the interests of AH developers over their own kids' education or elementary school experience. But the rest of us would be just fine if you were the one to "leave."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the comment was viewed as offensive because it used FARMS as a noun.

Oh dear god. He actually said it was racist because of assumptions I made about FARMS kids which are actually just data, and are directly spoken of by the PTA in a Post article, but whatever. Live in whatever world pleases you.

and you assume I"m a "he". Is that because I have a doctoral degree or run a company?

Again, back to facts. nationally, poverty is a white issue. Your racist assumptions are false and I call you out for what you are. Yes, I"m a outlier...and I want the outliers in ARL to thrive. I want you to leave.

I probably assumed you were a "he" because you started out your response with "holy crap" and generally made a lot of irrational, reactive assumptions. In my experience women tend to be more measured and less reactive. But you're right, it was not a good assumption. My bad.

Generally, you've criticized my post on the basis of

1) racism, despite race not being mentioned or even implied
2) incorrect use of pronouns
3) straw men based on things at the national level when we're only talking about Arlington
4) faulty generalization that your own unique situation has any bearing on problems and outcomes typical to Arlington schools

You've yet to respond to the actual argument I made, or refuted any of its premises, so I'll have to assume at this point that you can't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the comment was viewed as offensive because it used FARMS as a noun.

Oh dear god. He actually said it was racist because of assumptions I made about FARMS kids which are actually just data, and are directly spoken of by the PTA in a Post article, but whatever. Live in whatever world pleases you.

and you assume I"m a "he". Is that because I have a doctoral degree or run a company?

Again, back to facts. nationally, poverty is a white issue. Your racist assumptions are false and I call you out for what you are. Yes, I"m a outlier...and I want the outliers in ARL to thrive. I want you to leave.

What are you even talking about? Seriously. What is the point you are making? Racist assumptions? What?
Posters here are talking about actual data. We are discussing relevant facts. You are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the comment was viewed as offensive because it used FARMS as a noun.

Oh dear god. He actually said it was racist because of assumptions I made about FARMS kids which are actually just data, and are directly spoken of by the PTA in a Post article, but whatever. Live in whatever world pleases you.

and you assume I"m a "he". Is that because I have a doctoral degree or run a company?

Again, back to facts. nationally, poverty is a white issue. Your racist assumptions are false and I call you out for what you are. Yes, I"m a outlier...and I want the outliers in ARL to thrive. I want you to leave.

So is it your premise that "outliers" have a greater or lesser chance of reaching their potential when they attend a high-poverty school? Where there isn't money for the same level of enrichment, or field trips, or classroom materials? Where there are fewer parents who are able to devote time to volunteering, which frees up time for teachers to focus on teaching?

It's my belief that "outliers" can thrive in just about any environment. But should we accept situations in which it's really just the "outliers" who can reach their potential? Or should we be striving to create environments in which all students are given the best possible chance for success?

[Anonymous]

People in Arlington who refuse to acknowledge how our socio-economically segregated schools lower educational outcomes spout two defenses:

(1) all APS schools are great, and
(2) I did it, so can anyone (the "outlier")

I consistently hear both from Talento, NVD and former SB Lander.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People in Arlington who refuse to acknowledge how our socio-economically segregated schools lower educational outcomes spout two defenses:

(1) all APS schools are great, and
(2) I did it, so can anyone (the "outlier")

I consistently hear both from Talento, NVD and former SB Lander.

Sort of. I think Talento's point is more along the lines of not forcing kids to be bused around the county to achieve this goal, because it's places an undue burden on the families that already have a lot of obstacles in their way. And I think she is sort of bristling at the coarse way some people have spoken about kids from economically disadvantaged families. Further, I think she hears a lot from disadvantaged and immigrant communities that they are afraid to be moved around to unfamiliar and unwelcoming schools. That's not an unreasonable fear give the current climate.

I think she's more receptive to conversations that revolve around choices and speak about providing equitable access to opportunities rather than framing the issue as too many ED/ELL kids drag schools down. I think the same is true of NVD. Its important to remember that every child matters and brings something to the table. There are wealthy schools that are missing out because they have too few children with varied life experiences and points of view to offer. Homogeneity in education is not a positive when preparing students to enter a diverse work force within a global economy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP is absolutely right. Without option schools to avoid low performing neighborhood schools, a large percentage of UMC families of all races in SA will flee. Many of them in fact move to SA once their kid is in choice, because then they don't have to worry about schools until middle and high school (and not even that if immersion). I know at least 8 families that have done that, two living now on my block. (In addition to the two families around the bend now moving before kids are in K because it is now too hard to get into any of the option schools).

Only those families who care not about schools, are satisfied with the local school, or cannot afford to move will stay.

I hate to bring up the subject of property values, but eliminating option schools for SA families would probably cause a measureable drop in property values in SA and an increase in NA - or people just leave the county.

First of all, SA schools are good too. The only reason people think NA schools are better is because there is fewer FARMS. But in terms of teacher quality and resources, there is no difference. Second, only a few SA families will be able to move, it is expensive and there is a shortage of housing supply. So what will happen if they eliminate option schools is that all of the middle income SA families will start attending the neighborhood schools and the school's average test scores will improve. It's actually good for everyone.

That's magical thinkingWe know that isn't true because of how crowded Henry became over the last several years. Parents without enough money to move to north Arlington, and who didn't want to attend an option school, piled into that schools zone. Every house has small children. The same pattern might happen at Drew or Hoffman, but it simply won't at a school like Randolph. The demographics are just to skewed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP is absolutely right. Without option schools to avoid low performing neighborhood schools, a large percentage of UMC families of all races in SA will flee. Many of them in fact move to SA once their kid is in choice, because then they don't have to worry about schools until middle and high school (and not even that if immersion). I know at least 8 families that have done that, two living now on my block. (In addition to the two families around the bend now moving before kids are in K because it is now too hard to get into any of the option schools).

Only those families who care not about schools, are satisfied with the local school, or cannot afford to move will stay.

I hate to bring up the subject of property values, but eliminating option schools for SA families would probably cause a measureable drop in property values in SA and an increase in NA - or people just leave the county.

First of all, SA schools are good too. The only reason people think NA schools are better is because there is fewer FARMS. But in terms of teacher quality and resources, there is no difference. Second, only a few SA families will be able to move, it is expensive and there is a shortage of housing supply. So what will happen if they eliminate option schools is that all of the middle income SA families will start attending the neighborhood schools and the school's average test scores will improve. It's actually good for everyone.

You should compare PTA budgets for each elementary school, the number of participating parents. It's a fantasy that north Arlington schools, loaded with very wealthy single earned households who need zero external resources, are on a level with south Arlington schools, with their tiny pta budgets, two-parent working families, language barriers and high poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in Arlington who refuse to acknowledge how our socio-economically segregated schools lower educational outcomes spout two defenses:

(1) all APS schools are great, and
(2) I did it, so can anyone (the "outlier")

I consistently hear both from Talento, NVD and former SB Lander.

Sort of. I think Talento's point is more along the lines of not forcing kids to be bused around the county to achieve this goal, because it's places an undue burden on the families that already have a lot of obstacles in their way. And I think she is sort of bristling at the coarse way some people have spoken about kids from economically disadvantaged families. Further, I think she hears a lot from disadvantaged and immigrant communities that they are afraid to be moved around to unfamiliar and unwelcoming schools. That's not an unreasonable fear give the current climate.

I think she's more receptive to conversations that revolve around choices and speak about providing equitable access to opportunities rather than framing the issue as too many ED/ELL kids drag schools down. I think the same is true of NVD. Its important to remember that every child matters and brings something to the table. There are wealthy schools that are missing out because they have too few children with varied life experiences and points of view to offer. Homogeneity in education is not a positive when preparing students to enter a diverse work force within a global economy.

I would never want to force disadvantaged communities to be bussed, but I do wish that we could give at least some communities in S. Arl the option. Not everyone would take the option, but some would. There is no reasonable boundary or development that is going to make schools in locations such as Jamestown or Discovery's reflect the diversity of APS. Bussing is the only option. I'd never force bussing, but just making it an option would help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in Arlington who refuse to acknowledge how our socio-economically segregated schools lower educational outcomes spout two defenses:

(1) all APS schools are great, and
(2) I did it, so can anyone (the "outlier")

I consistently hear both from Talento, NVD and former SB Lander.

Sort of. I think Talento's point is more along the lines of not forcing kids to be bused around the county to achieve this goal, because it's places an undue burden on the families that already have a lot of obstacles in their way. And I think she is sort of bristling at the coarse way some people have spoken about kids from economically disadvantaged families. Further, I think she hears a lot from disadvantaged and immigrant communities that they are afraid to be moved around to unfamiliar and unwelcoming schools. That's not an unreasonable fear give the current climate.

I think she's more receptive to conversations that revolve around choices and speak about providing equitable access to opportunities rather than framing the issue as too many ED/ELL kids drag schools down. I think the same is true of NVD. Its important to remember that every child matters and brings something to the table. There are wealthy schools that are missing out because they have too few children with varied life experiences and points of view to offer. Homogeneity in education is not a positive when preparing students to enter a diverse work force within a global economy.

I would never want to force disadvantaged communities to be bussed, but I do wish that we could give at least some communities in S. Arl the option. Not everyone would take the option, but some would. There is no reasonable boundary or development that is going to make schools in locations such as Jamestown or Discovery's reflect the diversity of APS. Bussing is the only option. I'd never force bussing, but just making it an option would help.

The problem with offering busing elsewhere is that it tends to backfire for the struggling schools themselves. Because of the extra hurdles involved (applying, managing logistics, social/language/cultural barriers, etc.), when busing is made available it tends to be the relatively more affluent families who take advantage and leave, and the school population that remains is even more disadvantaged for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in Arlington who refuse to acknowledge how our socio-economically segregated schools lower educational outcomes spout two defenses:

(1) all APS schools are great, and
(2) I did it, so can anyone (the "outlier")

I consistently hear both from Talento, NVD and former SB Lander.

Sort of. I think Talento's point is more along the lines of not forcing kids to be bused around the county to achieve this goal, because it's places an undue burden on the families that already have a lot of obstacles in their way. And I think she is sort of bristling at the coarse way some people have spoken about kids from economically disadvantaged families. Further, I think she hears a lot from disadvantaged and immigrant communities that they are afraid to be moved around to unfamiliar and unwelcoming schools. That's not an unreasonable fear give the current climate.

I think she's more receptive to conversations that revolve around choices and speak about providing equitable access to opportunities rather than framing the issue as too many ED/ELL kids drag schools down. I think the same is true of NVD. Its important to remember that every child matters and brings something to the table. There are wealthy schools that are missing out because they have too few children with varied life experiences and points of view to offer. Homogeneity in education is not a positive when preparing students to enter a diverse work force within a global economy.

I would never want to force disadvantaged communities to be bussed, but I do wish that we could give at least some communities in S. Arl the option. Not everyone would take the option, but some would. There is no reasonable boundary or development that is going to make schools in locations such as Jamestown or Discovery's reflect the diversity of APS. Bussing is the only option. I'd never force bussing, but just making it an option would help.

The problem with offering busing elsewhere is that it tends to backfire for the struggling schools themselves. Because of the extra hurdles involved (applying, managing logistics, social/language/cultural barriers, etc.), when busing is made available it tends to be the relatively more affluent families who take advantage and leave, and the school population that remains is even more disadvantaged for it.

And that is why it makes sense for option programs to be located closest to disadvantaged communities, so that it makes it possible for them to consider those programs, while the more affluent families can do what they've always done, which is use their resources to get their kids wherever they want them to be. You locate attractive programs in disadvantaged neighborhoods and put the onus on the wealthier families to travel for the program or curriculum. This may not work in large geographic areas, but it can work in a county as small as Arlington, and where the disadvantaged often live a mere few blocks away from UMC families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People in Arlington who refuse to acknowledge how our socio-economically segregated schools lower educational outcomes spout two defenses:

(1) all APS schools are great, and
(2) I did it, so can anyone (the "outlier")

I consistently hear both from Talento, NVD and former SB Lander.

Sort of. I think Talento's point is more along the lines of not forcing kids to be bused around the county to achieve this goal, because it's places an undue burden on the families that already have a lot of obstacles in their way. And I think she is sort of bristling at the coarse way some people have spoken about kids from economically disadvantaged families. Further, I think she hears a lot from disadvantaged and immigrant communities that they are afraid to be moved around to unfamiliar and unwelcoming schools. That's not an unreasonable fear give the current climate.

I think she's more receptive to conversations that revolve around choices and speak about providing equitable access to opportunities rather than framing the issue as too many ED/ELL kids drag schools down. I think the same is true of NVD. Its important to remember that every child matters and brings something to the table. There are wealthy schools that are missing out because they have too few children with varied life experiences and points of view to offer. Homogeneity in education is not a positive when preparing students to enter a diverse work force within a global economy.

I would never want to force disadvantaged communities to be bussed, but I do wish that we could give at least some communities in S. Arl the option. Not everyone would take the option, but some would. There is no reasonable boundary or development that is going to make schools in locations such as Jamestown or Discovery's reflect the diversity of APS. Bussing is the only option. I'd never force bussing, but just making it an option would help.

The problem with offering busing elsewhere is that it tends to backfire for the struggling schools themselves. Because of the extra hurdles involved (applying, managing logistics, social/language/cultural barriers, etc.), when busing is made available it tends to be the relatively more affluent families who take advantage and leave, and the school population that remains is even more disadvantaged for it.

And that is why it makes sense for option programs to be located closest to disadvantaged communities, so that it makes it possible for them to consider those programs, while the more affluent families can do what they've always done, which is use their resources to get their kids wherever they want them to be. You locate attractive programs in disadvantaged neighborhoods and put the onus on the wealthier families to travel for the program or curriculum. This may not work in large geographic areas, but it can work in a county as small as Arlington, and where the disadvantaged often live a mere few blocks away from UMC families.

PP you're responding to here, I completely agree with you. Hopefully the staff and SB realize it too.

[Anonymous]

Except that you are taking away neighborhood schools and not all (few in fact) of the disadvantaged local kids will be able to get in the option schools. There are just too many disadvantaged kids!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Except that you are taking away neighborhood schools and not all (few in fact) of the disadvantaged local kids will be able to get in the option schools. There are just too many disadvantaged kids!

No, there are not too many disadvantaged kids. There are no perfect systems, but we have the resources to do far better than we are right now.