Should AAP demographics represent FCPS as a whole

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proof? Just look at any HS honors or AP class. Most of the kids were in honors or AAP in MS. Most of the GE classes are a continuance of the same GE students from MS.

Your assertion is not proof.

Your demand for proof is not a counter argument. Wouldn't it be more effective to put up your own proof that most Gen Ed students who opt out of honors in middle school go on to embrace it in high school.

You think there are a ton of kids who can't hack honors/AAP English or math in MS, but suddenly have not just the talent, but the foundation, to go up to honors in HS? I seriously doubt it. There are always exceptions, but I'm sure most kids on the GE MS track stay there is HS.

Wait until high school, then get back to us.

Unless they are dumbing down the curriculum and slowing the pace, I'm not sure how a kids who doesn't take honors or is in aap will be successful in, say, honors English.

Then you must not get around much. This describes my son and most of his male friends who didn't really "get" the point of school until high school. It's called maturity and brain development and it happens at a different pace for everyone. Not all of us start out as students, including the many people who contribute great things to world when they grow up -- and it may just help that in the interim they've gotten to slack off, play some sports and start figuring out who they are separate from a report card.

So very true. This also describes my kids. Both are very smart, but were not particularly interested in over-exerting themselves during middle school. Neither my husband nor I were at all concerned about that; what's the point? They took middle school honors classes in the subjects that interested them, and stuck with the regular classes in the other subjects. They had plenty of time to read for pleasure and have plenty of downtime, something that seems to be in short supply among kids in this area. I have no clue what their GPAs were in middle school. It's astounding that some parents on this board actually know, beyond generalities, exactly what their kids' middle school GPAs are. Are they aware that no one cares about this stuff (unless they're on the TJ treadmill)? Other than the few classes (math, foreign language) that might count toward high school GPA - middle school simply isn't relevant.

Once high school rolled around, my kids were eager to dive into honors and AP classes, and have done beautifully in all of them. I think a lot of that success has to do with not being burned out by the end of 8th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+10,000 finally some sense on this board

AAP has NO BEARING on future success of your child lol

That's a lot of caps. Are you sure that you re not desperately trying to convince yourself that your 25 year old is not going to end up living in your basement? Because it certainly seems like you are overcompensating for something.

Wow. Nasty much? I'm not the PP, but remarks like yours make it crystal clear that people like you, who insist that only AAP kids could possibly be prepared for, and successful in high school honors and AP classes, are some of the most insecure people on the planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the point
"Success" is correlated to HHI income and education of the mother
Chances are if you are reading this board you have a high income and education
Your child will be successful. The school has very little impact on the actual outcome of your child.
In the end its your income and education level that matters not whether you were in AAP, how many honors classes you took in middle school, or how many APs you took in high school
Or to put it another way. Schools have little impact in actually moving someone from one economic standard of living to another

Or maybe their success is because HHI well educated mothers are likely to move Heaven and Earth to make sure their kids are in classes like AAP and honors.

Hmm. I'm a HHI, well-educated mother who hasn't had to "move heaven and earth" to make sure of anything. Our kids chose the classes they wanted to take, when they wanted to take them, and did well in all of them. We didn't have to push them into anything... unlike so many parents who have kids in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proof? Just look at any HS honors or AP class. Most of the kids were in honors or AAP in MS. Most of the GE classes are a continuance of the same GE students from MS.

Your assertion is not proof.

Your demand for proof is not a counter argument. Wouldn't it be more effective to put up your own proof that most Gen Ed students who opt out of honors in middle school go on to embrace it in high school.

You think there are a ton of kids who can't hack honors/AAP English or math in MS, but suddenly have not just the talent, but the foundation, to go up to honors in HS? I seriously doubt it. There are always exceptions, but I'm sure most kids on the GE MS track stay there is HS.

Wait until high school, then get back to us.

Unless they are dumbing down the curriculum and slowing the pace, I'm not sure how a kids who doesn't take honors or is in aap will be successful in, say, honors English.

Why would they need to do either? There is absolutely no middle school prerequisite for any high school honors class. Kids who don't take middle school honors aren't at some kind of disadvantage once they decide to start high school honors. How silly.

Not silly. Skills build on each other. A child who is not learning to read and analyze harder texts and write more/ at a greater depth in honors or AAP MS English is going to gave a harder time when those things are expected of him or her in honors HS and they have to do them for the first time. A kid with no honors English experience is going to be at a disadvantage in AP or IB. You want that for your kid, and think they can make the jump? Fine. Just don't hold my kid back because your kid is trying to pick up skills my kid learned in MS.

Oh, sweetie. My older kids have already gone through high school, graduated with honors, and now attend excellent colleges. How old is your snowflake? Middle school? I think you're another one of those naive parents who's convinced yourself that AAP is actually some kind of track your kid needs to be on in order to do well in high school. Sorry, but no - one has nothing to do with another. Smart kids are everywhere, just so you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proof? Just look at any HS honors or AP class. Most of the kids were in honors or AAP in MS. Most of the GE classes are a continuance of the same GE students from MS.

Your assertion is not proof.

Your demand for proof is not a counter argument. Wouldn't it be more effective to put up your own proof that most Gen Ed students who opt out of honors in middle school go on to embrace it in high school.

You think there are a ton of kids who can't hack honors/AAP English or math in MS, but suddenly have not just the talent, but the foundation, to go up to honors in HS? I seriously doubt it. There are always exceptions, but I'm sure most kids on the GE MS track stay there is HS.

Wait until high school, then get back to us.

Unless they are dumbing down the curriculum and slowing the pace, I'm not sure how a kids who doesn't take honors or is in aap will be successful in, say, honors English.

Why would they need to do either? There is absolutely no middle school prerequisite for any high school honors class. Kids who don't take middle school honors aren't at some kind of disadvantage once they decide to start high school honors. How silly.

Not silly. Skills build on each other. A child who is not learning to read and analyze harder texts and write more/ at a greater depth in honors or AAP MS English is going to gave a harder time when those things are expected of him or her in honors HS and they have to do them for the first time. A kid with no honors English experience is going to be at a disadvantage in AP or IB. You want that for your kid, and think they can make the jump? Fine. Just don't hold my kid back because your kid is trying to pick up skills my kid learned in MS.

Oh, sweetie. My older kids have already gone through high school, graduated with honors, and now attend excellent colleges. How old is your snowflake? Middle school? I think you're another one of those naive parents who's convinced yourself that AAP is actually some kind of track your kid needs to be on in order to do well in high school. Sorry, but no - one has nothing to do with another. Smart kids are everywhere, just so you know.

+1 I'm with you. These parents worrying about their kids being "held back" in high school by the great unwashed who haven't been in all honors or AAP since 3rd grade, make me laugh. Sometimes it's actually the other way around because of the burnout factor, as an astute previous poster noted. Anyone still worrying their "smart" kid will be held back by others in high school, has a kid who either isn't that smart, or lacks the motivation needed to get ahead in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is now four posts in a row of ridiculous agreement against an obvious straw man notion no one has espoused. It's like watching three-year-olds watch Blue's Clues.

Is the "straw man" notion you're referring to the one in which multiple posters have said that to be successful in high school honors and AP classes, students must take elementary and middle school AAP and/or honors classes? Because several posters have claimed just that, and then been completely refuted by those of us who actually have kids in high school. Oh, and also the ludicrous claim that high school honors/AP/IB classes are full of only prior AAP kids - and no prior Gen Ed kids. It's kind of funny that you would say "no one has espoused" that, when the exact opposite is true. So what exactly is your straw man?

Hmm, I did find one poster suggesting that "I'm not sure how a kids who doesn't take honors or is in aap will be successful in, say, honors English." Seems pretty harmless. Is that what you meant by multiple posters insisting this or insisting that? The thing is, AAP haters such as yourself care waay more about these topics than anyone else here. Something I've yet to figure out. So a catty phrase answering another somehow is rephrased, rebutted, +10,000-ed, and tossed around by the same group of goblins until it's snowballed and shaped into some giant controversy regarded as The Official Position of all who don't hate AAP as much as you do. It's hilarious to witness how one troll post can send the y'all into apoplectic spasms that span pages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the point
"Success" is correlated to HHI income and education of the mother
Chances are if you are reading this board you have a high income and education
Your child will be successful. The school has very little impact on the actual outcome of your child.
In the end its your income and education level that matters not whether you were in AAP, how many honors classes you took in middle school, or how many APs you took in high school
Or to put it another way. Schools have little impact in actually moving someone from one economic standard of living to another

Or maybe their success is because HHI well educated mothers are likely to move Heaven and Earth to make sure their kids are in classes like AAP and honors.

"And did well in all of them". That part is significant. Assuming you are a HHI, well-educated mother, having your children do well in school is generally considered very important. Yes, there are a few people in this demographic that might not care much about their kid's academic performance but they are outliers. And most people who prize high school performance also prize things like aap and honors classes. Other parents who also care about education might tell themselves that it's not the name of the class that matters, but whether their children are learning and doing well, but they still want their kids to do well. And if truth be told, they would probably prefer that their kids were learning in AAPmor honors courses than in general Ed.
Hmm. I'm a HHI, well-educated mother who hasn't had to "move heaven and earth" to make sure of anything. Our kids chose the classes they wanted to take, when they wanted to take them, and did well in all of them. We didn't have to push them into anything... unlike so many parents who have kids in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Newsflash: MS AAP is not stressful or that hard. I can't imagine honors is more so. I have a kid in a MS AAP program with an excellent reputation and excellent TJ placement. He spends maybe an hour a day on homework, plus music practice. Most homework is actually from honors level math & foreign language, which is not done at the honors level. Straight As, so this is clearly enough. He is never losing sleep for homework, and never seems stressed about tests, grades, etc.

He is very involved in 2 school based extracurriculars-- one of which requires up to 20 hours a week of outside time, plus weekend competition. The other one is arts based and has outside performances. so he is busy-- but not because of course selection. You are deluding yourself if you justify GE placement in MS by saying you are saving your kid from mountains of homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the point
"Success" is correlated to HHI income and education of the mother
Chances are if you are reading this board you have a high income and education
Your child will be successful. The school has very little impact on the actual outcome of your child.
In the end its your income and education level that matters not whether you were in AAP, how many honors classes you took in middle school, or how many APs you took in high school
Or to put it another way. Schools have little impact in actually moving someone from one economic standard of living to another

Or maybe their success is because HHI well educated mothers are likely to move Heaven and Earth to make sure their kids are in classes like AAP and honors.

Hmm. I'm a HHI, well-educated mother who hasn't had to "move heaven and earth" to make sure of anything. Our kids chose the classes they wanted to take, when they wanted to take them, and did well in all of them. We didn't have to push them into anything... unlike so many parents who have kids in AAP.

Ok, the above post is what my 9:15 post was meant to be directed at.

"And did well in all of them". That part is significant. Assuming you are a HHI, well-educated mother, having your children do well in school is generally considered very important. Yes, there are a few people in this demographic that might not care much about their kid's academic performance but they are outliers. And most people who prize high school performance also prize things like aap and honors classes. Other parents who also care about education might tell themselves that it's not the name of the class that matters, but whether their children are learning and doing well, but they still want their kids to do well. And if truth be told, they would probably prefer that their kids were learning and doing well in AAP or honors courses than in general Ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I would be interested in. Hearing from a teacher in a FCPS MS AAP Center. Are self-selected honors and AAP classes doing the same work at the same level in your school? Or are the AAP classes stronger? I'd be especially interested in light of the fact that my AAP kid starts HS next year. Is he going to find honors work to be step down for a couple years until he hits IB (at one of the strong IB schools?). Or will it continue at the same pace as AAP has? Or can we hope for harder in 9th grade? Because, at this point, we are seeing high As with minimal effort at a "strong" AAP Center MS.

NP here. I guess my answer would be, who cares? Once in high school, your child will be in classes filled with all kind of kids, including those who were never in AAP, but who are now (finally) able to self-select honors, AP or IB classes. I guarantee your child will not find any of his high school classes a "step down" ( ) from middle school, regardless of what level he is currently in. He will be surrounded by kids of all abilities, many of whom will be far brighter than he, regardless of prior AAP experience. It's amazing how that works.

I guess I care, because my kid is in AAP at a RR/Carson/Longfellow, making great grades (a 4.0, but all core academic subjects 97 or greater), putting forth zero effort, and complaining about being bored all the time. So, I wish FCPS to finally challenge him. If these same kids, who are not pushing him now, funnel to HS with him, and then the classes get further watered down, then yes, I guess getting a challenging "honors curriculum isn't realistic. Maybe your brilliant kid who couldn't make AAP will run circles around him-- it would be nice if someone did. But I sorta doubt it. Here's hoping for TJ.

Oh dear. What a dilemma. Now I know why so many TJ kids seem to be socially challenged (to put it mildly) and struggle later in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what I would be interested in. Hearing from a teacher in a FCPS MS AAP Center. Are self-selected honors and AAP classes doing the same work at the same level in your school? Or are the AAP classes stronger? I'd be especially interested in light of the fact that my AAP kid starts HS next year. Is he going to find honors work to be step down for a couple years until he hits IB (at one of the strong IB schools?). Or will it continue at the same pace as AAP has? Or can we hope for harder in 9th grade? Because, at this point, we are seeing high As with minimal effort at a "strong" AAP Center MS.

NP here. I guess my answer would be, who cares? Once in high school, your child will be in classes filled with all kind of kids, including those who were never in AAP, but who are now (finally) able to self-select honors, AP or IB classes. I guarantee your child will not find any of his high school classes a "step down" ( ) from middle school, regardless of what level he is currently in. He will be surrounded by kids of all abilities, many of whom will be far brighter than he, regardless of prior AAP experience. It's amazing how that works.

I guess I care, because my kid is in AAP at a RR/Carson/Longfellow, making great grades (a 4.0, but all core academic subjects 97 or greater), putting forth zero effort, and complaining about being bored all the time. So, I wish FCPS to finally challenge him. If these same kids, who are not pushing him now, funnel to HS with him, and then the classes get further watered down, then yes, I guess getting a challenging "honors curriculum isn't realistic. Maybe your brilliant kid who couldn't make AAP will run circles around him-- it would be nice if someone did. But I sorta doubt it. Here's hoping for TJ.

Oh dear. What a dilemma. Now I know why so many TJ kids seem to be socially challenged (to put it mildly) and struggle later in life.

I'd love to see the objective data proving this. As opposed to what you "know" to be true based on a sample size of 2 or urban legend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Newsflash: MS AAP is not stressful or that hard. I can't imagine honors is more so. I have a kid in a MS AAP program with an excellent reputation and excellent TJ placement. He spends maybe an hour a day on homework, plus music practice. Most homework is actually from honors level math & foreign language, which is not done at the honors level. Straight As, so this is clearly enough. He is never losing sleep for homework, and never seems stressed about tests, grades, etc.

He is very involved in 2 school based extracurriculars-- one of which requires up to 20 hours a week of outside time, plus weekend competition. The other one is arts based and has outside performances. so he is busy-- but not because of course selection. You are deluding yourself if you justify GE placement in MS by saying you are saving your kid from mountains of homework.

And one might also say you are deluding yourself if you actually think a not particularly hard track (as you yourself stated), such as middle school AAP or honors, is necessary to be "prepared" for high school honors/AP/IB. It's not.

How do you people explain kids who transfer to FCPS for high school, who have never been in gifted programs or had access to honors classes? Perhaps their parents are in the military or government and they've been stationed overseas, attending school there. Now they're back for high school, and dive right into honors and AP classes without missing a beat, and without ever having had middle school "AAP" before. And they do great. Kids transfer here all the time for high school; you're making up a problem where there is none. ANYONE can decide to take high school honors and AP classes without previously taking honors classes.

I think some of you wish to make your kids sound special or somehow more prepared. The fact is, nothing they take in middle school, other than foreign language and math, are relevant to their high school success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is now four posts in a row of ridiculous agreement against an obvious straw man notion no one has espoused. It's like watching three-year-olds watch Blue's Clues.

Is the "straw man" notion you're referring to the one in which multiple posters have said that to be successful in high school honors and AP classes, students must take elementary and middle school AAP and/or honors classes? Because several posters have claimed just that, and then been completely refuted by those of us who actually have kids in high school. Oh, and also the ludicrous claim that high school honors/AP/IB classes are full of only prior AAP kids - and no prior Gen Ed kids. It's kind of funny that you would say "no one has espoused" that, when the exact opposite is true. So what exactly is your straw man?

Hmm, I did find one poster suggesting that "I'm not sure how a kids who doesn't take honors or is in aap will be successful in, say, honors English." Seems pretty harmless. Is that what you meant by multiple posters insisting this or insisting that? The thing is, AAP haters such as yourself care waay more about these topics than anyone else here. Something I've yet to figure out. So a catty phrase answering another somehow is rephrased, rebutted, +10,000-ed, and tossed around by the same group of goblins until it's snowballed and shaped into some giant controversy regarded as The Official Position of all who don't hate AAP as much as you do. It's hilarious to witness how one troll post can send the y'all into apoplectic spasms that span pages.

I'm not sure which "troll" post you're referring to, as I've found people like you love to cry troll whenever someone posts something you disagree with. You sure didn't make a great effort at going back through the thread and locating all the posts in which various posters (or maybe just you, sock-puppetting) have flat-out said that "GE kids remain GE kids throughout high school," or that "middle school honors are necessary to succeed in high school honors." So for your convenience and because you sound pretty lazy, I've compiled a list for you to refer to. In fact, the last one is my favorite as the poster actually states that my kid better not "hold back" her kid in high school, due to lack of middle school honors experience. I had a good laugh at that one, especially since my kids have already successfully completed multiple high school honors and AP classes and it's pretty clear her kid hasn't even left middle school (or maybe elementary?) yet.
14:27
15:45
16:03
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6:26
22:25***

If there's a group of goblins on this thread, it's the posters listed above. And the fact that you "can't figure out" why those of us responding would be offended to have wild, unfounded, catty generalizations tossed around about our kids simply speaks volumes about you. Or should I say, "ya'll."

[Anonymous]

As a Fairfax County resident, I am thankful for the great schools but can't help but worry. Do we really believe that the percentage of white children that are "gifted" is that much higher than the percentage of Hispanics or blacks? I know it is an "advanced" school so I guess I can understand that it is possible for a higher percentage of white children to be "advanced" at such a young age (third grade) if their parents are investing in them. However, I want my children to go to a school that reflects the diversity of our county. But then I think, do I really want to keep my children from being challenged in school if the AAP is actually better?

I just find it hard to believe that by third grade we need to be separating out kids at this level. Yes, the truly gifted children (which is not that great of a # - I mean seriously people, not many of our children are going to be an Einstein) should have a separate program and more challenging coursework - but in general, I think we should keep children together.

Just look at these demographics:

In my area, 71% of Asians and 83% of whites test into an AAP Elementary School. Only 41% of blacks and 22% of Hispanics test into an AAP ES. I just can't think that great of a number of children are so different at such a young age and that they wouldn't benefit by being in the same classrooms. Additionally, only 22% of those enrolled in Free/RP lunches test into AAP ES in my area. So I have to think that this isn't about brains but is more about the privileges that come with having educated parents with stable income.

Thoughts? Has anyone kept an "advanced" child in the general ES?

[Anonymous]

How is this possible that those ^^^ percentages test in, when the benchmarks are set at 97th percentile? In 4 second grade classes (approx 120 kids) at our school I think 9 tested in.