Barcroft elementary/ south Arlington crisis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's ok analogies aren't for everyone. Using and understanding them is the hallmark of a superior intellect. They'll be no waiting or drowning for us.

I think you meant "there'll." So much for your superior intellect.

Why don't you actually try for an intelligent argument, instead of worrying about autocorrect?

[Anonymous]

It is NIMBYism for the most part. We all value our property values. We all want to give our kids the best shot at success. But we also know that for the most part "we" are very privileged and fortunate, so much more so than many who live around here. So we support affordable housing so long as we don't see it, our property values are not impacted and our kids are not disadvantaged. It isn't a partisan issue.

And yes, arlington county has not learned from the experiences of so many other cities. Why? Because the county is run by north Arlington people. Because it is easier to cram poorer people in one area so that most of the county is the pride of economic development. Because human beings never learn from history. Because people want to say they are helping the poor as long as they don't see them. Because it is more expensive to do things right and the decisions are hard and wealthy areas push back.

The problem is that north Arlington is too expensive even for people who are making a lot of money. So those people moved to south arlington and they are not impressed with the schools. They want to invest in their homes and build their families here, but the schools are no longer diverse, they are overwhelmingly minority. And the color of other kids' skin isn't even important, it is SES. Only a few years ago scores were moing up, but now on the downturn and parents are freaking out and want change. They see the only change is lots of new buildings dedicated to affordable housing and expansion of other low rent units


It is a breaking point and the county better realize it. Or there will be "white flight" out of south arlington and that is not good for anyone.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:UGH. I swear. I am a "middle class" white woman and live in a neighborhood zoned for Barcroft. My kids attend another APS elementary school with similar numbers of kids on free and reduced lunch and I am embarrassed that some of my neighbors are acting this way. Maybe those folks should move to N. Arl. where they'll fit in better.

I have never, ever felt like APS or the county does not have my "middle class" children's best interest at heart. It actually really pisses me off that someone would say this.

I'd like for that poster to give me some concrete examples of "middle class" white kids getting the shaft and all the ways that Barcroft is struggling more than other schools. Is it because the test scores are low? Well, if that's the case then you don't really know anything about education.

Are kids getting hurt? Are their social and emotional needs not being met? Are classrooms out of control so no learning can take place? What exactly is going on?

My husband and I support affordable housing that is done right. I'm talking about communities built by APAH and AHC. They have the support systems in place to assist their residents both young and old because they team up with partners like Greenbrier Learning Center, The Reading Connection, Doorways for Women and Families, La Cocina Virginia, etc. It's the "market rate" affordable housing that I have a problem with. There are lots of problems in those communities and no support for residents. The kids who live in APAH and AHC communities do far better (for the most part) than those who do not.

Are there problems in APS overall?

In my opinion, there are tons. The overcrowding is a huge problem as is the focus on test scores as is the lack of free play and recess in elementary schools. I could go on and on. There are huge countywide problems. Let's not blame the kids on free and reduced lunch and their families.

The only bit of info relative in this post is that your kids don't attend Barcroft. Boy, you are very generous when it comes to the education of other people's kids. That's not a very impressive stance. This year has been very frustrating to the parents at Barcroft, and it's putting a strain on everyone. The squeaky wheel gets the grease in this county and we need to start making some noise. The above meeting isn't about affordable housing, its about it's concentration on the western end of the Pike. The county had committed to spreading it out evenly everywhere, giving lower SES families the best chance of upward mobility. They are now discussing abandoning those plans, because they were hard. Well, that is not acceptable. They are essentially creating a ghetto, and it needs to be put in check. There is a wealth of data out there about why concentrated poverty is terrible. Please do some homework. This isn't about farms kids being bad. Of course they aren't, but when there are too many special needs kids, it overwhelms the schools.
The few lower SES children in Norh Arlington score considerably better than their same peers at Barcroft. Oh, and guess what? There is gap between the upper middle class kids too, though not as dramatic.
No, testing isn't the end all be all. We all want our kids outside playing, and engaging in hands on learning. Not gonna happen while the school is stuffed to the gills and every inch of green space has a trailer on it.
These are very real problems, and calling me a racist or a classist isn't going to make them go away. It stops the coversation, and that's truly the ignorant stance. I'm a liberal, but I live in the real world. I believe in discussing real problems, and working to find solutions that benefit everyone- not just looking for political talking points and an easy way out for the board.
- S. Arl parent

You're not a liberal. You're a hypocrite. You got on up-poster for being liberal because of her altruistic stance that affected your kids- not hers. You're just as bad. You want the liberal title, except you don't sound very liberal when it comes to children in need in your community. Suddenly, you're a tea party realist. So nationally as a liberal you support policies that are damaging kids' education across the country- until it's in your backyard. What you are is a Nimby.

Ok.

I love that you found this thread. It's become a bit of an echo chamber, and an opposing point of view is helpful.

Here is how I see the situation and the liberal view in this particular instance.


Engineers have a built a boat
It sets sail at 5pm
The boat holds 30 people
A specific lobbying group ( let's call them Boating Rights for Everyone- BRE) insists that 45 people must board the boat.
The engineers explain the boat will capsize if over 30 people board and all will drown.
BRE continues to insist that all 45 people must set sail by 5pm.

Engineers- we could build a second boat
BRE - will it be ready by 5pm?
Engineers- umm... Nope
BRE- completely unacceptable!
Engineers- ok... You can have all 45 on the boat, but everyone will drown.
BRE- Great 45 people it is!


All I'm saying is- let's take the time to build a second boat.

as low by as you're a part of the 15 that drown while waiting on the second boat. You wouldn't mind that though, right. Certainly, you'd be willing to die for your liberal beliefs.... Or is that all bullshit?

I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say, or who that is directed to... Or if you understood the analogy. Maybe yoy could rephrase. Thanks.

Rephrased: you're in la la land!

Huh. Yeah, that's a bummer because I thought it was a pretty clear scenario. If you are the most recent poster who seems to lean a bit right of center, I would think you would be in agreement with the engineers above. The more liberal view being that of BRE- well intentioned but ultimately not achieving the desired result. I wouldn't assume that the 15 people who aren't able to board immediately have drowned. I would say they will wait on dry land for another boat to be built. They will probably wait in Manassas... Or maybe Woodbridge.

Huh? What a load of dumb bull. Yes, you are in la la land. Let you and your family wait... Or drown.

It's ok analogies aren't for everyone. Using and understanding them is the hallmark of a superior intellect. They'll be no waiting or drowning for us.

Your analogy was goofy and based upon unicorns. Back to reality- you're a nimby, plain and simple. To use your analogy, you want to pretend like you give a darn about a second boat. There's no money in the budget for a second boat. You know this, but make your self feel better, all the while knowing that you only care about your spot on the boat, you talk about this second (phantom) boat. "The government needs to get them a second boat," you scream with crocodile tears. "I mean this is ridiculous," you carry on from the luxury of your yacht, "the government needs to give more money!" In reality you give too shits, but you would look bad to the outside world with your truly selfish platform, so you go on and on about the poors and their boat. And therein lies the problem with our world.

[Anonymous]

Np, It's also dumb bc lower test scores and property values are not life or death situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Np, It's also dumb bc lower test scores and property values are not life or death situations.

That's where you're mostly wrong. Having food and shelter is definitely life and death. This is such an interesting topic/discussion because it's a universal problem. Fascinating to see it in a microcosm.
Test scores and property values... They have lasting consequences. I think it's unwise to be glib out them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is NIMBYism for the most part. We all value our property values. We all want to give our kids the best shot at success. But we also know that for the most part "we" are very privileged and fortunate, so much more so than many who live around here. So we support affordable housing so long as we don't see it, our property values are not impacted and our kids are not disadvantaged. It isn't a partisan issue.

And yes, arlington county has not learned from the experiences of so many other cities. Why? Because the county is run by north Arlington people. Because it is easier to cram poorer people in one area so that most of the county is the pride of economic development. Because human beings never learn from history. Because people want to say they are helping the poor as long as they don't see them. Because it is more expensive to do things right and the decisions are hard and wealthy areas push back.

The problem is that north Arlington is too expensive even for people who are making a lot of money. So those people moved to south arlington and they are not impressed with the schools. They want to invest in their homes and build their families here, but the schools are no longer diverse, they are overwhelmingly minority. And the color of other kids' skin isn't even important, it is SES. Only a few years ago scores were moing up, but now on the downturn and parents are freaking out and want change. They see the only change is lots of new buildings dedicated to affordable housing and expansion of other low rent units


It is a breaking point and the county better realize it. Or there will be "white flight" out of south arlington and that is not good for anyone.

I wonder about that. I don't think they are concerned with that. Will it matter if the younger middle class families leave? Seems like they assume they will be replaced by DINKS. Or perhaps hope that they are. Someone mentioned up thread the county had projected south Arlington would populated mostly by childless couples. They are working to create the south Arlington they wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is NIMBYism for the most part. We all value our property values. We all want to give our kids the best shot at success. But we also know that for the most part "we" are very privileged and fortunate, so much more so than many who live around here. So we support affordable housing so long as we don't see it, our property values are not impacted and our kids are not disadvantaged. It isn't a partisan issue.

And yes, arlington county has not learned from the experiences of so many other cities. Why? Because the county is run by north Arlington people. Because it is easier to cram poorer people in one area so that most of the county is the pride of economic development. Because human beings never learn from history. Because people want to say they are helping the poor as long as they don't see them. Because it is more expensive to do things right and the decisions are hard and wealthy areas push back.

The problem is that north Arlington is too expensive even for people who are making a lot of money. So those people moved to south arlington and they are not impressed with the schools. They want to invest in their homes and build their families here, but the schools are no longer diverse, they are overwhelmingly minority. And the color of other kids' skin isn't even important, it is SES. Only a few years ago scores were moing up, but now on the downturn and parents are freaking out and want change. They see the only change is lots of new buildings dedicated to affordable housing and expansion of other low rent units


It is a breaking point and the county better realize it. Or there will be "white flight" out of south arlington and that is not good for anyone.

Ultimately not good for the property values of those who live in the de facto segregated areas in n Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the history of busing in arlington?

NP. As far as I know, elementary bussing was never historically done in Arlington. I grew up there and never heard of it, unless it's a relatively new phenomenon. The exception may be for kids with special needs where a neighborhood school cannot accommodate the student for whatever reason. I can only speak from personal experience, but I attended Williamsburg and Yorktown in the early-mid 90s. They bussed kids from what was then called Green Valley in South Arlington to those schools starting probably in 1990 or so and continuing at least until I graduated and I'm guessing at least a few years thereafter. I remember A LOT of parents in North Arlington being unhappy about it at the time, saying it was a waste of money and a pain to coordinate with bus schedules and traffic. Honestly, some of the kids who were bussed in adjusted beautifully, despite the SES differences and whatnot, but there were others who definitely had a lot of trouble. If I had to guess, those kids were already having problems at their base schools and WMS and YHS were just stopgaps before spaces opened up for them at Langston Hughes.

Not sure about bussing, but I can tell you that the phrase "neighborhood school" has a long and ugly history here.

[Anonymous]

Neighborhood school and be a good thing, can be a bad thing. It all depends on your neighborhood. that term was used a lot as a mechanism for segregation in the south.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the history of busing in arlington?

NP. As far as I know, elementary bussing was never historically done in Arlington. I grew up there and never heard of it, unless it's a relatively new phenomenon. The exception may be for kids with special needs where a neighborhood school cannot accommodate the student for whatever reason. I can only speak from personal experience, but I attended Williamsburg and Yorktown in the early-mid 90s. They bussed kids from what was then called Green Valley in South Arlington to those schools starting probably in 1990 or so and continuing at least until I graduated and I'm guessing at least a few years thereafter. I remember A LOT of parents in North Arlington being unhappy about it at the time, saying it was a waste of money and a pain to coordinate with bus schedules and traffic. Honestly, some of the kids who were bussed in adjusted beautifully, despite the SES differences and whatnot, but there were others who definitely had a lot of trouble. If I had to guess, those kids were already having problems at their base schools and WMS and YHS were just stopgaps before spaces opened up for them at Langston Hughes.

Not sure about bussing, but I can tell you that the phrase "neighborhood school" has a long and ugly history here.

"good schools" can be a euphemism..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is NIMBYism for the most part. We all value our property values. We all want to give our kids the best shot at success. But we also know that for the most part "we" are very privileged and fortunate, so much more so than many who live around here. So we support affordable housing so long as we don't see it, our property values are not impacted and our kids are not disadvantaged. It isn't a partisan issue.

And yes, arlington county has not learned from the experiences of so many other cities. Why? Because the county is run by north Arlington people. Because it is easier to cram poorer people in one area so that most of the county is the pride of economic development. Because human beings never learn from history. Because people want to say they are helping the poor as long as they don't see them. Because it is more expensive to do things right and the decisions are hard and wealthy areas push back.

The problem is that north Arlington is too expensive even for people who are making a lot of money. So those people moved to south arlington and they are not impressed with the schools. They want to invest in their homes and build their families here, but the schools are no longer diverse, they are overwhelmingly minority. And the color of other kids' skin isn't even important, it is SES. Only a few years ago scores were moing up, but now on the downturn and parents are freaking out and want change. They see the only change is lots of new buildings dedicated to affordable housing and expansion of other low rent units


It is a breaking point and the county better realize it. Or there will be "white flight" out of south arlington and that is not good for anyone.

We are the type of family you describe (HHI of 225, priced out of n arlington, purchased a sfh, two preschoolers with k a year out). We were very enthusiastic about our elementary school when we purchased, but that has really fallen over the past few years. Not because of the diversity/minority presence, but because of the overcrowding. We are seriously considering leaving (and we would move out of state) because of the over crowding and class sizes and complete failure of the county to actively manage the issue.

[Anonymous]

can SB reduce class size only for low-performing schools? make them significantly smaller so kids get enough attentions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is NIMBYism for the most part. We all value our property values. We all want to give our kids the best shot at success. But we also know that for the most part "we" are very privileged and fortunate, so much more so than many who live around here. So we support affordable housing so long as we don't see it, our property values are not impacted and our kids are not disadvantaged. It isn't a partisan issue.

And yes, arlington county has not learned from the experiences of so many other cities. Why? Because the county is run by north Arlington people. Because it is easier to cram poorer people in one area so that most of the county is the pride of economic development. Because human beings never learn from history. Because people want to say they are helping the poor as long as they don't see them. Because it is more expensive to do things right and the decisions are hard and wealthy areas push back.

The problem is that north Arlington is too expensive even for people who are making a lot of money. So those people moved to south arlington and they are not impressed with the schools. They want to invest in their homes and build their families here, but the schools are no longer diverse, they are overwhelmingly minority. And the color of other kids' skin isn't even important, it is SES. Only a few years ago scores were moing up, but now on the downturn and parents are freaking out and want change. They see the only change is lots of new buildings dedicated to affordable housing and expansion of other low rent units


It is a breaking point and the county better realize it. Or there will be "white flight" out of south arlington and that is not good for anyone.

We are the type of family you describe (HHI of 225, priced out of n arlington, purchased a sfh, two preschoolers with k a year out). We were very enthusiastic about our elementary school when we purchased, but that has really fallen over the past few years. Not because of the diversity/minority presence, but because of the overcrowding. We are seriously considering leaving (and we would move out of state) because of the over crowding and class sizes and complete failure of the county to actively manage the issue.

Well gosh, even though you pay your fair share of property taxes and have worked hard to afford to live in Arligton, your child doesn't have the right to a particularly great education. Not when there are so many people who can't afford to live here that we must accommodate. Too bad for you. Oh, and shut up about it already. You are a horrible person if you want to point out that this trend isn't working out so very well for anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:can SB reduce class size only for low-performing schools? make them significantly smaller so kids get enough attentions?

Title 1 schools are supposed to have small class sizes. That's partially why some of these school's scores started improving. That was the case at my local elementary. The crowding in all of Arlington is not good, but in these schools with high levels of poverty and English learners, it's much more dysfunctional.
If the county can keep the class sizes small, most people won't have as much of a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is NIMBYism for the most part. We all value our property values. We all want to give our kids the best shot at success. But we also know that for the most part "we" are very privileged and fortunate, so much more so than many who live around here. So we support affordable housing so long as we don't see it, our property values are not impacted and our kids are not disadvantaged. It isn't a partisan issue.

And yes, arlington county has not learned from the experiences of so many other cities. Why? Because the county is run by north Arlington people. Because it is easier to cram poorer people in one area so that most of the county is the pride of economic development. Because human beings never learn from history. Because people want to say they are helping the poor as long as they don't see them. Because it is more expensive to do things right and the decisions are hard and wealthy areas push back.

The problem is that north Arlington is too expensive even for people who are making a lot of money. So those people moved to south arlington and they are not impressed with the schools. They want to invest in their homes and build their families here, but the schools are no longer diverse, they are overwhelmingly minority. And the color of other kids' skin isn't even important, it is SES. Only a few years ago scores were moing up, but now on the downturn and parents are freaking out and want change. They see the only change is lots of new buildings dedicated to affordable housing and expansion of other low rent units


It is a breaking point and the county better realize it. Or there will be "white flight" out of south arlington and that is not good for anyone.

We are the type of family you describe (HHI of 225, priced out of n arlington, purchased a sfh, two preschoolers with k a year out). We were very enthusiastic about our elementary school when we purchased, but that has really fallen over the past few years. Not because of the diversity/minority presence, but because of the overcrowding. We are seriously considering leaving (and we would move out of state) because of the over crowding and class sizes and complete failure of the county to actively manage the issue.

Well gosh, even though you pay your fair share of property taxes and have worked hard to afford to live in Arligton, your child doesn't have the right to a particularly great education. Not when there are so many people who can't afford to live here that we must accommodate. Too bad for you. Oh, and shut up about it already. You are a horrible person if you want to point out that this trend isn't working out so very well for anyone.

Beyond my better judgement, I'm going to respond to someone who's position includes the phrase "shut up."

First, I'm not sure why you say "already". While I have posted on this thread, I think my longest response has been a one sentence response. So, I'm not sure about the "already" part of your attack, but I don't think it applies to me.

Next, I never said my children have the right to a great education. I said we have the choice to stay and deal with horrible management and over crowded schools or leave. I stated that we are leaning towards leaving. The ONLY thing keeping us in the area was the educational opportunities in arlington. However, the education is only as good as the teachers. And, while I do not doubt that we have amazing teachers, they are only human. Having too many children in the classroom greatly affects the teachers ability to teach to the needs of the individual child. Plus, they get burned out. The schools we are looking at out of state have on average 16 kids per k.

I'm not sure why I'm a horrible person for pointing out that over crowding doesn't work for anyone. It doesn't. My family is in the very fortunate to have the choice to stay or leave (hence the agreement that we would fall into the white flight category. We have no family in the area and we work remotely. The scales are tipping away from the school being such a draw to stay.

Enjoy your day, pp. And try not to tell anyone to 'shut up'. It's not a great way to make friends.