Why do Disney vacationers seem uniquely subjected to social vitriol?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are usually very uneducated. It's pathetic.

A whole group of us mes school graduates went for fun. Thanks for calling us uneducated.

Med school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are usually very uneducated. It's pathetic.

Both statements are untrue.

Please share your hobbies with us so we can critique their worthiness. We’ll wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

You’re definitely right about that. There is no comparison between a ride that lasts a few minutes and getting to spend time in a foreign city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

My kids have done both. They don’t have any desire to go back to Disney. It was fine but not great. The food was terrible, the lines were annoying (yes, we paid for lightening passes or whatever and I was up every morning trying to reserve and optimize our time). They like the rides better at other parks that are more fun. They also prefer traveling the world over going to Orlando. Maybe they’re weird but it’s fine with my husband and me because we have no desire to go back to Disney World.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

I mean, literally yes? Because my kid wants to visit his cousins. My kid hasn't asked to go back to Disney.

Not really the flex you think it is.

A lot of kids do grow out of Disney but you shouldn’t discourage your kid from liking kid things.

I’m not PP but my kids - now both in middle school - have not wanted to go back to Disney since we went years ago. Every time we plan a trip we give them options of places we’ve gone before, including Disney although I have no interest in going back, or new places. They pick a mix but never once has Disney made even the first round of cuts.

We stayed at a very nice (and stupidly expensive, in my opinion) hotel on property, we bought all the things, we were there for enough days and did all the parks, we played in the hotel pool. They liked the two days we spent at Universal more because the rides were better, and they weren’t into Disney. We went with another family and their kids and they feel the same way. We’re actually on spring break with them right now and no kid wanted to go back to Disney.

You can like it all you want, but it’s not the top choice for many kids. If it is for yours, then go ahead and keep going. We’ll enjoying our ski trip to Zermatt. At least we both get to see the Matterhorn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

I mean, literally yes? Because my kid wants to visit his cousins. My kid hasn't asked to go back to Disney.

Not really the flex you think it is.

A lot of kids do grow out of Disney but you shouldn’t discourage your kid from liking kid things.

I’m not PP but my kids - now both in middle school - have not wanted to go back to Disney since we went years ago. Every time we plan a trip we give them options of places we’ve gone before, including Disney although I have no interest in going back, or new places. They pick a mix but never once has Disney made even the first round of cuts.

We stayed at a very nice (and stupidly expensive, in my opinion) hotel on property, we bought all the things, we were there for enough days and did all the parks, we played in the hotel pool. They liked the two days we spent at Universal more because the rides were better, and they weren’t into Disney. We went with another family and their kids and they feel the same way. We’re actually on spring break with them right now and no kid wanted to go back to Disney.

You can like it all you want, but it’s not the top choice for many kids. If it is for yours, then go ahead and keep going. We’ll enjoying our ski trip to Zermatt. At least we both get to see the Matterhorn.

YAWN

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Disney is so much fun. Families with money and who traveled a lot growing up know this and spend $$$$ visiting Disney with premiere passes and/or VIP.

If anyone makes fun of me I just assume they are UMC strivers who pretend going to art museums in Italy is actually fun.

Disney has gotten more expensive because it appeals more and more to the wealthy.

Maybe from other countries? My kids are both in private school and they know zero kids going to Disney for spring break this year. They also said they don’t know anyone who went last year.

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

My kids have done both. They don’t have any desire to go back to Disney. It was fine but not great. The food was terrible, the lines were annoying (yes, we paid for lightening passes or whatever and I was up every morning trying to reserve and optimize our time). They like the rides better at other parks that are more fun. They also prefer traveling the world over going to Orlando. Maybe they’re weird but it’s fine with my husband and me because we have no desire to go back to Disney World.

My in laws live in Central Florida so I've visited with my kids a lot and while my kids had a nice time at Disney they had an equally nice times at the Orlando Science Center, Kennedy Space Center, the beach, and swimming in the springs.

But the absolute kid MVP, a pick your own fruit Farm that has a bunch of kid stuff (bounce pads, climbing structures, slides, tractor rides, giant bubbles). That place cost $8 per kid, adults were free (there are food trucks). They ask to go there every time. Now them being under 8, I'm sure that will change. But yep, the $8 fruit farm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because it's weird.

I think that being a judgmental bully is weird but I guess that’s the difference between us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My family is anti-Disney. It is fake and atrocious. I do judge anyone over 30 going to Disney and running around in Disney purses, ears and gear. Like gtfu! It is ridiculous and screams of mental illness.

So according to you people with mental illness shouldn’t be in public?

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Anonymous wrote:I think if you took away all their photos and social media the luster would be gone for them. They seem to want to be this way for online bragging rights?

It would be an amazing social experiment to black box anyone having an experience. You get to have the experience, but no recording. Still happy?

+1

I think this is a huge part of it. Camera phones + SM have changed a lot of things, and Disney parks are a flashpoint.

And to be fair it's not just Disney. I'm the poster who's been to the Netherlands a lot for work and family and the number of people who go into Mauritshuis just to get in a line to take a picture with Girl with a Pearl Earring and then leave is pretty sad. I'm not sure they even look at the painting.

I also think Disney is trading in nostalgia from being better when people were kids, so they get the warm fuzzies. I remember just how amazing that puppet parade they had at EPCOT was. So they're trading off nostalgia for adults while not actually building those fundamental experiences with today's kids.

What are these puppets you keep talking about?

The millennium puppet parade. I grew up in Orlando and back then Disney had a lot of opportunities to go for free (my choir and band performed a lot and they'd give us free tickets). My younger sibling got to dance with the puppets.

When I worked at Disney we also had a roving talking robot in our section (a guy dressed as a tourist was secretly controlling it from a few feet away).

Back then was like 30 years ago. No wonder you seem so out of touch.

A) Again, I kept season status going for quite a while when I visited home and B) I still know people who work there because some of my work friends stayed on.

You’re the fool who was insisting that you had to book restaurants “6 months in advance!” Again and again. You know nothing.

Good lord, it was absolutely true for certain things for a while (Be Our Guest when it first opened?). Being pedantic isn't cute.

I mean if you want to see why people hate Disney adults, this right here. We got harassed by people like this all the time.

DP here. I don’t think it’s “pedantic.” You are trying to act like an expert while judging Disney Adults but also revealing your information is very outdated.

Denying the Enshittification is a bizarre take. I'm in a position to be familiar with the decline basically over decades. It accelerated significantly post COVID.

Again what we're conveying is Disney is taking away things that made the parks better while asking you to pay more and more money. And pay for things that used to be free.

You want to buy into that, fine.

No one’s denying that it’s more expensive and things that were once free now have a charge to them. But that pretty much describes most of life in the United States these days. If you have the money and still have fun there, it’s not a morally inferior vacation to beaches, skiiing, national parks, whatever. Our friends are obsessed with pricy camping gear and checking off National parks that have gotten far more crowded than in days past. That would not be my choice for repeated vacations but they enjoy it and that’s all I need to know. I’m happy for them.

I’m not sure about morally inferior given that we’re talking about vacations, but Disney is definitely an intellectually inferior vacation to visiting national parks, going abroad to experience other cultures, and other trips I’m not going to bother to name because you’ll just disagree.

You don’t learn anything at Disney except maybe at Animal Kingdom. You don’t experience other cultures (yes, I’ve been to Epcot multiple times). You don’t see historically significant locations. Etc, etc.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

I mean, literally yes? Because my kid wants to visit his cousins. My kid hasn't asked to go back to Disney.

Not really the flex you think it is.

A lot of kids do grow out of Disney but you shouldn’t discourage your kid from liking kid things.

Sounds like the kid is an only and has to enjoy what his parents want to do because they aren’t into kids.

As a former Disney employee, this is actually more what adults do to their kids. The kid would rather just have pool time or feed popcorn to a bird and the parent is stressing out about making sure their kid rides Haunted Mansion or whatever. And then they get upset when their kid isn't enjoying every second because mom and dad paid so much money to be there.

Then my colleagues and I would swoop in with our little games, pins, and stickers to diffuse the situation. It was surprisingly effective.

As you say, many of them would prefer the pool.

We never took our kids because a family at school described a miserable experience queueing all day for three rides with their kids pleading to go back to the hotel to play in the pool.

We did take them to real medieval castles to play with catapults and bows and arrows, and to the Great Barrier Reef to see the sealife, and to mountains around the world to ski.

Now that they are adults, they haven't taken themselves to Disney World, so don't seem too emotionally deprived

So you are judging something you haven’t tried.

Maybe.

But I don't understand the concept of "having" to take your kids to Disney, which seems to be the result of very effective marketing.

I did take them to some other low key amusement parks, but they didn't require any fast passes or prebooking or in depth research.

No more so than “having” to take your kids to Europe or teaching them to ski.

Teaching your kids to ski is a life long activity. You learn literally nothing at Disney except maybe patience for standing in line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

You’re definitely right about that. There is no comparison between a ride that lasts a few minutes and getting to spend time in a foreign city.

We do both. Where did you get the impression that Disney visited don’t travel overseas?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

You’re definitely right about that. There is no comparison between a ride that lasts a few minutes and getting to spend time in a foreign city.

We do both. Where did you get the impression that Disney visited don’t travel overseas?

We tracked our steps in the parks and we get 10 miles in a day walking at Disney. It’s good for exercise. And we don’t eat all the snacks and junk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

You chose a city with fewer attractions so it was easier to navigate. Doesn’t take a genius to figure that out. The point about the Disney top rides is that they are the top rides in the world - Guardians of the Galaxy is a $1 billion dollar marvel of engineering and entertainment. So yes it is worth doing the (tiny) amount of planning - likely no different than going to the Eiffel Tower - to ride it. There are like 2 rides at Disney that require that level of planning (Guardians and Slinky) and if you like rides the effort is 100% worth it. You’re comparing apples and oranges and declaring oranges superior. There is zero comparison between Guardians of the Galaxy and having a cookie in a suburban Dutch town.

NP. I vote for the cookie in Leiden any day.

Borrrring

If you've never had a fresh stroopwaffle, you're missing out. A dole whip doesn't come close.

Sure keep telling yourself that your kids really had SO MUCH FUN eating a fresh stroopwaffle in Leiden - they would definitely not have enjoyed Disneyworld at all. Maybe the history of stroopwaffle will become their area of special interest for their college applications in 10 years. Good to think ahead.

This is so deranged.

Also, I have taken my kid to Disney. He's had dole whip. Again, I used to work at the Magic Kingdom. The cult attitude toward basic Disney stuff like soft serve and hot dogs is so bizarre.

To be clear my comment was not about dole whip in isolation. It was about fooling yourself into thinking your kids would rather have a local cookie in a suburban Dutch city than go to Disneyworld.

I mean, literally yes? Because my kid wants to visit his cousins. My kid hasn't asked to go back to Disney.

Not really the flex you think it is.

A lot of kids do grow out of Disney but you shouldn’t discourage your kid from liking kid things.

Sounds like the kid is an only and has to enjoy what his parents want to do because they aren’t into kids.

As a former Disney employee, this is actually more what adults do to their kids. The kid would rather just have pool time or feed popcorn to a bird and the parent is stressing out about making sure their kid rides Haunted Mansion or whatever. And then they get upset when their kid isn't enjoying every second because mom and dad paid so much money to be there.

Then my colleagues and I would swoop in with our little games, pins, and stickers to diffuse the situation. It was surprisingly effective.

As you say, many of them would prefer the pool.

We never took our kids because a family at school described a miserable experience queueing all day for three rides with their kids pleading to go back to the hotel to play in the pool.

We did take them to real medieval castles to play with catapults and bows and arrows, and to the Great Barrier Reef to see the sealife, and to mountains around the world to ski.

Now that they are adults, they haven't taken themselves to Disney World, so don't seem too emotionally deprived

So you are judging something you haven’t tried.

Maybe.

But I don't understand the concept of "having" to take your kids to Disney, which seems to be the result of very effective marketing.

I did take them to some other low key amusement parks, but they didn't require any fast passes or prebooking or in depth research.

No more so than “having” to take your kids to Europe or teaching them to ski.

Teaching your kids to ski is a life long activity. You learn literally nothing at Disney except maybe patience for standing in line.

There you go again. Why do you think that people who go to Disney also don’t go skiing?