Anonymous wrote:But in Europe, you probably are not taking on a 30 or 40 year mortgage. They're going to renegotiate it every 10 years, but the mindset is to pay it off quickly or not buy a house to begin with.
So many in the U.S. are house poor with nearly half their pay going to housing and they can't just get out of it on a whim. The whole mindset in Europe is different. Most don't dream big to begin with. They work to live.
Our economy has been financialized. Look at how much Visa takes from a vendor on every purchase. The stores pass that on to you. You pay a lot in the USA for financing and insurance and you get very little from those rackets.
Do you actually believe what you write?
Americans have less mortgage debt than most Western Europeans. Significantly less than those in Scandinavia. Europeans are refinancing only because they most don’t have access to a 30 year fixed rate mortgage.
Again, Americans have less personal debt and less mortgage debt than Germans, the French, British etc. You may not feel this is the case, but it is.
Anonymous wrote:But in Europe, you probably are not taking on a 30 or 40 year mortgage. They're going to renegotiate it every 10 years, but the mindset is to pay it off quickly or not buy a house to begin with.
So many in the U.S. are house poor with nearly half their pay going to housing and they can't just get out of it on a whim. The whole mindset in Europe is different. Most don't dream big to begin with. They work to live.
Our economy has been financialized. Look at how much Visa takes from a vendor on every purchase. The stores pass that on to you. You pay a lot in the USA for financing and insurance and you get very little from those rackets.
Do you actually believe what you write?
Americans have less mortgage debt than most Western Europeans. Significantly less than those in Scandinavia. Europeans are refinancing only because they most don’t have access to a 30 year fixed rate mortgage.
Again, Americans have less personal debt and less mortgage debt than Germans, the French, British etc. You may not feel this is the case, but it is.
Anonymous wrote:But in Europe, you probably are not taking on a 30 or 40 year mortgage. They're going to renegotiate it every 10 years, but the mindset is to pay it off quickly or not buy a house to begin with.
So many in the U.S. are house poor with nearly half their pay going to housing and they can't just get out of it on a whim. The whole mindset in Europe is different. Most don't dream big to begin with. They work to live.
Our economy has been financialized. Look at how much Visa takes from a vendor on every purchase. The stores pass that on to you. You pay a lot in the USA for financing and insurance and you get very little from those rackets.
Do you actually believe what you write?
Americans have less mortgage debt than most Western Europeans. Significantly less than those in Scandinavia. Europeans are refinancing only because they most don’t have access to a 30 year fixed rate mortgage.
Again, Americans have less personal debt and less mortgage debt than Germans, the French, British etc. You may not feel this is the case, but it is.
Anonymous wrote:I see why you are frustrated.
In US, I have had two jobs that cost me more to go to work than to stay home. I have had jobs where I trained for free for days. I had jobs without getting paid for all hours I worked. I had a job where I had to sleep on hard bench if nobody came to lock up.
I have had jobs where I had to share the money. I've had jobs with no benefits, no breaks in 12-hours, no minimum met, no vacations, and nobody gave a hoot about labor laws. All this in DC.
I've never had a job that offered benefits or even retirement.
I've had jobs where paychecks bounced weekly, coming with $35 fee. At some jobs where I had to pay if customer walked out without paying.
All this wage theft can be seen in my SS statement and will follow me forever.
The crazy part is that somehow somebody convinced me that's how we work in US. Add to that my old school work ethic, strong mental and physical health and this was the result.
Long story short, I made ca average $22k a year for 29 years in DC working my tail off. What about you all leave Europe. If you are so great, they don't deserve you. And if US was so great, you wouldn't be in such debt, just Europe.
I left my employers behind and started to work for myself the minute I got my papers. I retired soon after.
I don't need my ex employers who still contact me, and you don't need Europe. Let them be. They want to chill.
Unusual post, most of which is hard to believe.
Did you really average just $22,000 per year of income for 29 years in DC working your tail off ? If true,you lack common sense or are otherwise unemployable.
Anonymous wrote:On a recent flight to Paris I sat next to an executive from a French multinational. He said all the white collar workers in his company want to be relocated to the USA. Why? Better pay and better lifestyle.
I assume they have not actually lived in the US for a length of time. Otherwise, they would be shocked that there is no mandated maternity leave, managers will frown if you want to take more than 2 weeks off, healthcare and college costs are insane, and you have to deal with lockdown drills at your kid's school, and every time you hear about a school shooting, you quickly go on your phone to check if it's your kid's school.
yea, qol here is so much better for the average worker. /s
Anonymous wrote:On a recent flight to Paris I sat next to an executive from a French multinational. He said all the white collar workers in his company want to be relocated to the USA. Why? Better pay and better lifestyle.
I assume they have not actually lived in the US for a length of time. Otherwise, they would be shocked that there is no mandated maternity leave, managers will frown if you want to take more than 2 weeks off, healthcare and college costs are insane, and you have to deal with lockdown drills at your kid's school, and every time you hear about a school shooting, you quickly go on your phone to check if it's your kid's school.
yea, qol here is so much better for the average worker. /s
Except this isn’t true for white collar workers more than a few years out of college. This is you protecting your own hatred of America. So you want to make everyone think that we are all running around without health insurance and only 2 weeks of vacation.
Sadly the lockdown drills are true, but with the recent shooting in Austria they likely will have them eventually as well.
Pp said healthcare costs are insane, not that they don’t have it. And it is crazy expensive.
The average white collar mid career gets 21 days of PRO - SICK and Vacation. Or they get the scam of unlimited
Anonymous wrote:On a recent flight to Paris I sat next to an executive from a French multinational. He said all the white collar workers in his company want to be relocated to the USA. Why? Better pay and better lifestyle.
They think that until they get here and realize that we expect them to work like Americans.
Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.
+1.
European work culture has it right.
Not if you want to actually earn money.
Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.
Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US
If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.
But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.
Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.
so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.
Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.
Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.
My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.
It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.
A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.
No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.
Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.
The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.
But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.
The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.
In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.
A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.
So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?
yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.
Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.
Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.
Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.
It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.
It is irrelevant parents happiness once you marry and have kids. Don't marry or have kids if you want to lay around all day and relax. My one uncle was a lazy bone and he just raised very bitter kids who had to pay their own way through college, left them a near worthless run down shack upon death. He should have not had kids. He put his kids behind a generation or two. My other Uncle worked hard once he had kids, sent them to Law School, Medical School etc set them up for success in life. He was buying stocks and reading Wall Street Journal back in 1960s and 1970s while my other uncle was laying on sofa.
Watch the show Sirens btw and it boils down in life the only thing that matters is will your kids be at your deathbed and did you set your kids and grandkids up for success in life. Nothing else matters. Most of my European relatives have not done that. They are more interested in having a small amount of kids and retiring earlier and could care less about paying for college, buying the kid a car, paying for wedding, leaving an inheritance. Sets kids up for a harder life just so Daddy can drink beers in the pub every night.
I am 100% sure you have no European relatives.
Signed,
An actual European
Funny I was on a flight to Europe last year and lady next to me was from Europe on vacation in US. She lived near where some of my first relatives lives She then made a snotty remark you Americans always think cause your family immigrated from Europe years ago that somehow we might know your relatives. I then said well I have 30 first cousins who live near your and 16 Uncles and Aunts. She then went damm I only have 5 first cousins. I have been to Europe 12 times and going in two week. I have worked for European companies around 15 years of career in the US. It is boring over there.
Anonymous wrote:I see why you are frustrated.
In US, I have had two jobs that cost me more to go to work than to stay home. I have had jobs where I trained for free for days. I had jobs without getting paid for all hours I worked. I had a job where I had to sleep on hard bench if nobody came to lock up.
I have had jobs where I had to share the money. I've had jobs with no benefits, no breaks in 12-hours, no minimum met, no vacations, and nobody gave a hoot about labor laws. All this in DC.
I've never had a job that offered benefits or even retirement.
I've had jobs where paychecks bounced weekly, coming with $35 fee. At some jobs where I had to pay if customer walked out without paying.
All this wage theft can be seen in my SS statement and will follow me forever.
The crazy part is that somehow somebody convinced me that's how we work in US. Add to that my old school work ethic, strong mental and physical health and this was the result.
Long story short, I made ca average $22k a year for 29 years in DC working my tail off. What about you all leave Europe. If you are so great, they don't deserve you. And if US was so great, you wouldn't be in such debt, just Europe.
I left my employers behind and started to work for myself the minute I got my papers. I retired soon after.
I don't need my ex employers who still contact me, and you don't need Europe. Let them be. They want to chill.
Unusual post, most of which is hard to believe.
Did you really average just $22,000 per year of income for 29 years in DC working your tail off ? If true,you lack common sense or are otherwise unemployable.
Among Black led households, almost half earn under $50K household total. But that is largely driven by unemployment, not low wages. And younger people tend to earn less than older people, so lower income households are younger.
Still, it's possible.
But I've never heard a mentally healthy person claim to have strong mentally health. Me tally healthy people don't pay attention to their mental health.
Anonymous wrote:But in Europe, you probably are not taking on a 30 or 40 year mortgage. They're going to renegotiate it every 10 years, but the mindset is to pay it off quickly or not buy a house to begin with.
So many in the U.S. are house poor with nearly half their pay going to housing and they can't just get out of it on a whim. The whole mindset in Europe is different. Most don't dream big to begin with. They work to live.
Our economy has been financialized. Look at how much Visa takes from a vendor on every purchase. The stores pass that on to you. You pay a lot in the USA for financing and insurance and you get very little from those rackets.
Do you actually believe what you write?
Americans have less mortgage debt than most Western Europeans. Significantly less than those in Scandinavia. Europeans are refinancing only because they most don’t have access to a 30 year fixed rate mortgage.
Again, Americans have less personal debt and less mortgage debt than Germans, the French, British etc. You may not feel this is the case, but it is.
Again, Americans pay a tremendous mount of their income to debt financing. Not so in Europe.
That's debt to income ratio. It doesn't say anything about interest rates/amounts.
Americans buy (big) homes instead of renting, and upper middle class Americans take out mortgages in order to invest in the stock market, because the US government subsidizes mortgages for high income people.
My debt is far higher than my income, like almost every homeowner here, but I am rich (like almost everyone here).
Anonymous wrote:On a recent flight to Paris I sat next to an executive from a French multinational. He said all the white collar workers in his company want to be relocated to the USA. Why? Better pay and better lifestyle.
I assume they have not actually lived in the US for a length of time. Otherwise, they would be shocked that there is no mandated maternity leave, managers will frown if you want to take more than 2 weeks off, healthcare and college costs are insane, and you have to deal with lockdown drills at your kid's school, and every time you hear about a school shooting, you quickly go on your phone to check if it's your kid's school.
yea, qol here is so much better for the average worker. /s
I would guess he means executives.
Yes, the US is great for the rich - college, healthcare, private schools, nice vacations, quality food. For the rest of us, we get much less bang for the buck in terms of work/life balance.
The EU/UK have more stringent standards for food quality. Some of their rules are stupid, but they are at the forefront of removing harmful chemicals in the food supply; they don't allow GMO foods; they don't import US beef treated with hormones. We have very lax food regulations in this country.
I think RFK Jr is a fool, but I do agree about that our food supply is tainted. Of course, reducing the FDA will make that worse.
Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.
+1.
European work culture has it right.
Not if you want to actually earn money.
Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.
Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US
If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.
But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.
Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.
so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.
Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.
Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.
My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.
It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.
A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.
No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.
Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.
The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.
But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.
The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.
In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.
A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.
So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?
yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.
Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.
Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.
Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.
It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.
It is irrelevant parents happiness once you marry and have kids. Don't marry or have kids if you want to lay around all day and relax. My one uncle was a lazy bone and he just raised very bitter kids who had to pay their own way through college, left them a near worthless run down shack upon death. He should have not had kids. He put his kids behind a generation or two. My other Uncle worked hard once he had kids, sent them to Law School, Medical School etc set them up for success in life. He was buying stocks and reading Wall Street Journal back in 1960s and 1970s while my other uncle was laying on sofa.
Watch the show Sirens btw and it boils down in life the only thing that matters is will your kids be at your deathbed and did you set your kids and grandkids up for success in life. Nothing else matters. Most of my European relatives have not done that. They are more interested in having a small amount of kids and retiring earlier and could care less about paying for college, buying the kid a car, paying for wedding, leaving an inheritance. Sets kids up for a harder life just so Daddy can drink beers in the pub every night.
I am 100% sure you have no European relatives.
Signed,
An actual European
Funny I was on a flight to Europe last year and lady next to me was from Europe on vacation in US. She lived near where some of my first relatives lives She then made a snotty remark you Americans always think cause your family immigrated from Europe years ago that somehow we might know your relatives. I then said well I have 30 first cousins who live near your and 16 Uncles and Aunts. She then went damm I only have 5 first cousins. I have been to Europe 12 times and going in two week. I have worked for European companies around 15 years of career in the US. It is boring over there.
You must have just stayed in the business park and never traveled outside of the immediate area.
Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.
+1.
European work culture has it right.
Not if you want to actually earn money.
Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.
Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US
If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.
But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.
Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.
so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.
Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.
Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.
My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.
It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.
A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.
No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.
Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.
The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.
But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.
The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.
In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.
A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.
So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?
yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.
Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.
Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.
Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.
It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.
It is irrelevant parents happiness once you marry and have kids. Don't marry or have kids if you want to lay around all day and relax. My one uncle was a lazy bone and he just raised very bitter kids who had to pay their own way through college, left them a near worthless run down shack upon death. He should have not had kids. He put his kids behind a generation or two. My other Uncle worked hard once he had kids, sent them to Law School, Medical School etc set them up for success in life. He was buying stocks and reading Wall Street Journal back in 1960s and 1970s while my other uncle was laying on sofa.
Watch the show Sirens btw and it boils down in life the only thing that matters is will your kids be at your deathbed and did you set your kids and grandkids up for success in life. Nothing else matters. Most of my European relatives have not done that. They are more interested in having a small amount of kids and retiring earlier and could care less about paying for college, buying the kid a car, paying for wedding, leaving an inheritance. Sets kids up for a harder life just so Daddy can drink beers in the pub every night.
I am 100% sure you have no European relatives.
Signed,
An actual European
Funny I was on a flight to Europe last year and lady next to me was from Europe on vacation in US. She lived near where some of my first relatives lives She then made a snotty remark you Americans always think cause your family immigrated from Europe years ago that somehow we might know your relatives. I then said well I have 30 first cousins who live near your and 16 Uncles and Aunts. She then went damm I only have 5 first cousins. I have been to Europe 12 times and going in two week. I have worked for European companies around 15 years of career in the US. It is boring over there.
What is this weird insistence with always saying Europe? Surely you must know that there is a world of difference between Norway and Albania. Why act like Europe is a monolith, as if it's the US with a bunch of states?
Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.
+1.
European work culture has it right.
Not if you want to actually earn money.
Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.
Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US
If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.
But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.
Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.
so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.
Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.
Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.
My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.
It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.
A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.
No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.
Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.
The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.
But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.
The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.
In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.
A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.
So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?
yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.
Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.
Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.
Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.
It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.
It is irrelevant parents happiness once you marry and have kids. Don't marry or have kids if you want to lay around all day and relax. My one uncle was a lazy bone and he just raised very bitter kids who had to pay their own way through college, left them a near worthless run down shack upon death. He should have not had kids. He put his kids behind a generation or two. My other Uncle worked hard once he had kids, sent them to Law School, Medical School etc set them up for success in life. He was buying stocks and reading Wall Street Journal back in 1960s and 1970s while my other uncle was laying on sofa.
Watch the show Sirens btw and it boils down in life the only thing that matters is will your kids be at your deathbed and did you set your kids and grandkids up for success in life. Nothing else matters. Most of my European relatives have not done that. They are more interested in having a small amount of kids and retiring earlier and could care less about paying for college, buying the kid a car, paying for wedding, leaving an inheritance. Sets kids up for a harder life just so Daddy can drink beers in the pub every night.
I am 100% sure you have no European relatives.
Signed,
An actual European
Funny I was on a flight to Europe last year and lady next to me was from Europe on vacation in US. She lived near where some of my first relatives lives She then made a snotty remark you Americans always think cause your family immigrated from Europe years ago that somehow we might know your relatives. I then said well I have 30 first cousins who live near your and 16 Uncles and Aunts. She then went damm I only have 5 first cousins. I have been to Europe 12 times and going in two week. I have worked for European companies around 15 years of career in the US. It is boring over there.
Over there, where? That's like saying Africa and Asia are boring. Those are continents, not countries. I think this might be a you problem.
Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.
+1.
European work culture has it right.
Not if you want to actually earn money.
Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.
Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US
If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.
But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.
Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.
so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.
Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.
Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.
My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.
It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.
A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.
No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.
Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.
The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.
But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.
The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.
In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.
A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.
So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?
yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.
Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.
Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.
Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.
It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.
It is irrelevant parents happiness once you marry and have kids. Don't marry or have kids if you want to lay around all day and relax. My one uncle was a lazy bone and he just raised very bitter kids who had to pay their own way through college, left them a near worthless run down shack upon death. He should have not had kids. He put his kids behind a generation or two. My other Uncle worked hard once he had kids, sent them to Law School, Medical School etc set them up for success in life. He was buying stocks and reading Wall Street Journal back in 1960s and 1970s while my other uncle was laying on sofa.
Watch the show Sirens btw and it boils down in life the only thing that matters is will your kids be at your deathbed and did you set your kids and grandkids up for success in life. Nothing else matters. Most of my European relatives have not done that. They are more interested in having a small amount of kids and retiring earlier and could care less about paying for college, buying the kid a car, paying for wedding, leaving an inheritance. Sets kids up for a harder life just so Daddy can drink beers in the pub every night.
I am 100% sure you have no European relatives.
Signed,
An actual European
Funny I was on a flight to Europe last year and lady next to me was from Europe on vacation in US. She lived near where some of my first relatives lives She then made a snotty remark you Americans always think cause your family immigrated from Europe years ago that somehow we might know your relatives. I then said well I have 30 first cousins who live near your and 16 Uncles and Aunts. She then went damm I only have 5 first cousins. I have been to Europe 12 times and going in two week. I have worked for European companies around 15 years of career in the US. It is boring over there.
Over there, where? That's like saying Africa and Asia are boring. Those are continents, not countries. I think this might be a you problem.
Europe is Europe, Africa is Africa and Asia is Asia.
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