High schoolers can’t write

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are schools that don’t cost that much PP.

Do name the schools that don’t cost “much.” Except for some low-quality religious schools (whose math instruction is far worse than MCPS) most private schools in this area are extremely expensive.

The average private school tuition in the state of MD is $14,000/year.

https://www.privateschoolreview.com/tuition-stats/maryland

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

Oh boy! One novel study! How ever will the kids handle all of that.

By secondary do you mean MS or HS?

Both.

The fact that they’re only required to teach one book per quarter is utterly pathetic.

I don’t see the problem with one anchor text a quarter. So you teach The Odyssey as an anchor text. You throw in related texts, such as Atwood poetry or nonfiction about the ancient city of Troy. Students do related research to find criticism, and then write their own.

Easily enough content for a quarter.

that’s not how it was described. it was described as one book per quarter.

PP who said one book per quarter minimum. That is the minimum full-length books. It was said in response to someone who said kids read 2 books/year, which should not be happening.

The one book/quarter minimum is indeed the anchor text with other texts added on.

We've never had four books a quarter. Last year, freshman year, it was two books, excerpts and a movie for one quarter, which was absurd.

In MS, it was 1-2 books a year.

Ya’ll should definitely talk to the English department at your schools because it’s been one book per quarter and one major writing assignment per quarter for awhile. That info comes directly from Central Office. Further this school year they have re-emphasized this and are limiting the number of book choices available for teachers to choose from just to help ensure it’s grade level or above content.

Have you seen the choices for the Honors English 9 curriculum? Many are below grade level. But yes teachers are required to use 1 anchor text per quarter — just disagreeing that limiting choice means kids are getting grade-level content. In the pilot, most teachers chose texts well below grade level.

Yes I have seen the English 9 choices and I’m fine with them. If teachers are always choosing the easiest text, then that’s a teacher and expectation setting problem. I also know that it’s the reading, analysis and writing done with each anchor text along with supplemental material that determines the quality of the class.

My problem is how much of the books they try to read in class.

Having anchor texts that are below level and reading them in class in so-called honors English is ridiculous and underscores the problem here — class time is spent reading and not learning about how to analyze text and write.

[Anonymous]

PP did not want a religious school. The average in MD is brought down by religious privates. -DP

[Anonymous]

Private and homeschool. Publics are trash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP did not want a religious school. The average in MD is brought down by religious privates. -DP

Well, we can’t all have exactly what we want.

If my choice was Catholic school or crap MCPS, I’d choose Catholic school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do a decent amount of writing for my job. I am college educated, and even have my CPA license. Whatever shortcomings I have in writing, I use AI to fix.

I think your kids will be fine.

I'm in my 40s. My writing didn't really improve until I started working. It slightly improved while in college, but my non-MCPS public school didn't prepare me well. Even now, I use AI to fix my writing. My ideas have always been strong, but their implementation through writing still needs improvement!

My kids write much better than I did at their ages. IB has everything to do with it. If you're required to write, you will get better. The peer editing has been prettygood as well.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:so where does one bring their middle schooler/high schooler for writing help? any after school programs?

Can you work with them? We worked on and reviewed all assignments in MS.

Some parents value a qualified teacher working with their kid. I would never be so arrogant as to think I can replace that.

Or, they are unable or too lazy to help their kids. I'm amazed at people not knowing how well their teens write.

I write for a living. I would not trust myself to be the primary person teaching my kid to write.

This. Many parents aren’t great writers, English isn’t their first language or they received a language/writing education similar to what MCPS students are receiving now. A parent can confirm with their child that they have done work but would need a certain level of skill to know that it was done well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mcps employee here.
-I am using the institute for excellence in writing to teach my kid how to write. My child is in 5th grade and has terrible grammar, spelling, and idea organization. I think some kids can learn to write by being avid readers (like my other kid) while many need direct instruction which mcps is not providing in a systematic way. It's shameful that they only focus on reading and math and don'teven do a good job with these subjects. Writing has just been completely thrown out the window. This curriculum has been recommended on dcum and I really like it. It is extrmely structured. You can either do it through a tutor, online classss, or you can learn the curriculum on your own. It's sad that providing a solid education has fallen on the shoulders of many parents and even more depressing that the kids who need it the most won't be able to get extra academic support from their families.

How much does it cost?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kids go to Whitman. They are native English speakers. They get all As. Their writing is awful. Poor grammar and punctuation. Circular sentences, pointless paragraphs. In an essay, they don’t know how to build an argument. And they read more than most other kids. I am in shock. How can this be? Anyone else notice this issue with their kids?

Parents should have pulled their kids out of schools when they introduced curriculum 2.0 which was an experimental program that mandated letting kids figure out the rules of writing rather than being strictly taught them.

Right because all of us can afford 60k a year and there are enough private school spots. Great advice.

Catholic schools are as little as $10K/year. Most DCUM posters can afford that.

I looked at Catholics. Most were not interesting in having non Catholics and their practices were archaic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are schools that don’t cost that much PP.

Do name the schools that don’t cost “much.” Except for some low-quality religious schools (whose math instruction is far worse than MCPS) most private schools in this area are extremely expensive.

The average private school tuition in the state of MD is $14,000/year.

https://www.privateschoolreview.com/tuition-stats/maryland

Catholic schools yes but not all of us are catholic. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are schools that don’t cost that much PP.

Do name the schools that don’t cost “much.” Except for some low-quality religious schools (whose math instruction is far worse than MCPS) most private schools in this area are extremely expensive.

Not true. First, the highest in the DMV is approximately 57k - not 60k. So, close but let’s be precise with our words. There are schools that are as low as $7-10k. Our DD attended one that is $25k. There is a broad range. And you are incorrect to dismiss religious or Catholic schools as being behind in math. Public school goes through the curriculum *faster* whereas often private schools are able to go at a slower pace and go deeper because the classes are smaller. Also, a ‘D’ (passing in MCPS) will not allow you to proceed to the next math level - you have to master the work to get moved up.

I am not advocating everyone go to private school but don’t disparage that which you do not know. I’ve been in both (private and public) so have a point of comparison.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

Oh boy! One novel study! How ever will the kids handle all of that.

By secondary do you mean MS or HS?

Both.

The fact that they’re only required to teach one book per quarter is utterly pathetic.

I don’t see the problem with one anchor text a quarter. So you teach The Odyssey as an anchor text. You throw in related texts, such as Atwood poetry or nonfiction about the ancient city of Troy. Students do related research to find criticism, and then write their own.

Easily enough content for a quarter.

that’s not how it was described. it was described as one book per quarter.

PP who said one book per quarter minimum. That is the minimum full-length books. It was said in response to someone who said kids read 2 books/year, which should not be happening.

The one book/quarter minimum is indeed the anchor text with other texts added on.

We've never had four books a quarter. Last year, freshman year, it was two books, excerpts and a movie for one quarter, which was absurd.

In MS, it was 1-2 books a year.

Ya’ll should definitely talk to the English department at your schools because it’s been one book per quarter and one major writing assignment per quarter for awhile. That info comes directly from Central Office. Further this school year they have re-emphasized this and are limiting the number of book choices available for teachers to choose from just to help ensure it’s grade level or above content.

Have you seen the choices for the Honors English 9 curriculum? Many are below grade level. But yes teachers are required to use 1 anchor text per quarter — just disagreeing that limiting choice means kids are getting grade-level content. In the pilot, most teachers chose texts well below grade level.

Yes I have seen the English 9 choices and I’m fine with them. If teachers are always choosing the easiest text, then that’s a teacher and expectation setting problem. I also know that it’s the reading, analysis and writing done with each anchor text along with supplemental material that determines the quality of the class.

My problem is how much of the books they try to read in class.

Having anchor texts that are below level and reading them in class in so-called honors English is ridiculous and underscores the problem here — class time is spent reading and not learning about how to analyze text and write.

What does an anchor text mean? Is it one book that is read and then is used as a frame of reference for the rest od the school year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to Whitman. They are native English speakers. They get all As. Their writing is awful. Poor grammar and punctuation. Circular sentences, pointless paragraphs. In an essay, they don’t know how to build an argument. And they read more than most other kids. I am in shock. How can this be? Anyone else notice this issue with their kids?

Parents should have pulled their kids out of schools when they introduced curriculum 2.0 which was an experimental program that mandated letting kids figure out the rules of writing rather than being strictly taught them.

Right because all of us can afford 60k a year and there are enough private school spots. Great advice.

Catholic schools are as little as $10K/year. Most DCUM posters can afford that.

I looked at Catholics. Most were not interesting in having non Catholics and their practices were archaic.

What practices were archaic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are schools that don’t cost that much PP.

Do name the schools that don’t cost “much.” Except for some low-quality religious schools (whose math instruction is far worse than MCPS) most private schools in this area are extremely expensive.

The average private school tuition in the state of MD is $14,000/year.

https://www.privateschoolreview.com/tuition-stats/maryland

Catholic schools yes but not all of us are catholic. No thanks.

You do realize that a good 1/3 of students at Catholic schools are not Catholic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids go to Whitman. They are native English speakers. They get all As. Their writing is awful. Poor grammar and punctuation. Circular sentences, pointless paragraphs. In an essay, they don’t know how to build an argument. And they read more than most other kids. I am in shock. How can this be? Anyone else notice this issue with their kids?

Parents should have pulled their kids out of schools when they introduced curriculum 2.0 which was an experimental program that mandated letting kids figure out the rules of writing rather than being strictly taught them.

Right because all of us can afford 60k a year and there are enough private school spots. Great advice.

Catholic schools are as little as $10K/year. Most DCUM posters can afford that.

I looked at Catholics. Most were not interesting in having non Catholics and their practices were archaic.

What practices were archaic?

Apparently writing instruction, penmanship, and using textbooks/written notes.

I was against Catholic schools at first. We aren’t Catholic and I held my family’s negative beliefs about Catholicism. And then I toured a school to see how it compared to my local public. I loved it, and I submitted the application with fingers crossed. That was 12 years ago. I’ve now had one child graduate from Catholic schools and another on his way through.

I love the “archaic” practices. They could also be considered tried and true. It’s refreshing to see real textbooks, less technology use, high expectations for work and behavior. I love the daily writing practice. We are giving up higher math tracks, but I am not one to push my child far ahead in math “just because..” Calculus by senior year worked well for my older child’s college admissions.