Has anyone here on a normal income successfully FIREd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.
Root of good pays nowhere near $25k

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.
Yes, he may need to move to a lower cost of living area

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.
I have been a single family home owner for 20 years and have never spent anywhere near $4k per year for maintenance
$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.
This is possible

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.
Why would he need two cars if neither person works? Why would he be driving a lot?
$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.
You can send a kid to a public school by saving $2k per year from birth. There's also military options, scholarships, grants etc

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.
It doesn't cost $5k to drive and see family

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

I don't know how you cannot spend $4K+ per year for maintenance? Have you not needed a new roof/HVAC/H2O heater? 20 years ago my roof cost $15K, last year it was $45K (larger home, lots of valleys). Painting my home outside was $20K. Sure you don't do it yearly, but it adds up. Most people do not do their own electrical and plumbing work or appliance repair. Most appliances last 8-10 years. So a new dishwasher and fridge every 10 years is $3-4K, add in the washer/dryer for another $1-2K.
Tycpial estimates is 10-15% of home value will be needed (on average) for home maintenance. When home gets older, it will be higher.

Those are accurate estimates if you're useless and can't do home repairs/improvements yourself.

Hell, just avoid companies like Michael & Son and you will save roughly 50%.

Most of us are useless in that way. I'd say if you throw a rock in a crowd, you are unlikely to find someone able to fix their own roof or replace their own AC, or fix their own plumbing, or whatever sh** has to get done on a house in a year. Did OP say that part of his money saving plan is to do his own plumbing from now on? If so I missed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.
Root of good pays nowhere near $25k

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.
Yes, he may need to move to a lower cost of living area

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.
I have been a single family home owner for 20 years and have never spent anywhere near $4k per year for maintenance
$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.
This is possible

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.
Why would he need two cars if neither person works? Why would he be driving a lot?
$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.
You can send a kid to a public school by saving $2k per year from birth. There's also military options, scholarships, grants etc

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.
It doesn't cost $5k to drive and see family

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

I don't know how you cannot spend $4K+ per year for maintenance? Have you not needed a new roof/HVAC/H2O heater? 20 years ago my roof cost $15K, last year it was $45K (larger home, lots of valleys). Painting my home outside was $20K. Sure you don't do it yearly, but it adds up. Most people do not do their own electrical and plumbing work or appliance repair. Most appliances last 8-10 years. So a new dishwasher and fridge every 10 years is $3-4K, add in the washer/dryer for another $1-2K.
Tycpial estimates is 10-15% of home value will be needed (on average) for home maintenance. When home gets older, it will be higher.

Those are accurate estimates if you're useless and can't do home repairs/improvements yourself.

Hell, just avoid companies like Michael & Son and you will save roughly 50%.

Most of us are useless in that way. I'd say if you throw a rock in a crowd, you are unlikely to find someone able to fix their own roof or replace their own AC, or fix their own plumbing, or whatever sh** has to get done on a house in a year. Did OP say that part of his money saving plan is to do his own plumbing from now on? If so I missed it.

^ Rather, fix their own roof AND replace their own AC AND fix their own plumbing, since according to you all skilled tradespeople are unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.
Root of good pays nowhere near $25k

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.
Yes, he may need to move to a lower cost of living area

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.
I have been a single family home owner for 20 years and have never spent anywhere near $4k per year for maintenance
$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.
This is possible

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.
Why would he need two cars if neither person works? Why would he be driving a lot?
$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.
You can send a kid to a public school by saving $2k per year from birth. There's also military options, scholarships, grants etc

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.
It doesn't cost $5k to drive and see family

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

I don't know how you cannot spend $4K+ per year for maintenance? Have you not needed a new roof/HVAC/H2O heater? 20 years ago my roof cost $15K, last year it was $45K (larger home, lots of valleys). Painting my home outside was $20K. Sure you don't do it yearly, but it adds up. Most people do not do their own electrical and plumbing work or appliance repair. Most appliances last 8-10 years. So a new dishwasher and fridge every 10 years is $3-4K, add in the washer/dryer for another $1-2K.
Tycpial estimates is 10-15% of home value will be needed (on average) for home maintenance. When home gets older, it will be higher.

Those are accurate estimates if you're useless and can't do home repairs/improvements yourself.

Hell, just avoid companies like Michael & Son and you will save roughly 50%.

Most of us are useless in that way. I'd say if you throw a rock in a crowd, you are unlikely to find someone able to fix their own roof or replace their own AC, or fix their own plumbing, or whatever sh** has to get done on a house in a year. Did OP say that part of his money saving plan is to do his own plumbing from now on? If so I missed it.

^ Rather, fix their own roof AND replace their own AC AND fix their own plumbing, since according to you all skilled tradespeople are unnecessary.

You are making shiiit up. Nobody said that.

Regarding maintenance, you should be around 1% of property value, not 10-15%. I own several rentals and, although maintenance can vary considerably, even 10% is laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.
Root of good pays nowhere near $25k

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.
Yes, he may need to move to a lower cost of living area

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.
I have been a single family home owner for 20 years and have never spent anywhere near $4k per year for maintenance
$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.
This is possible

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.
Why would he need two cars if neither person works? Why would he be driving a lot?
$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.
You can send a kid to a public school by saving $2k per year from birth. There's also military options, scholarships, grants etc

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.
It doesn't cost $5k to drive and see family

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

I don't know how you cannot spend $4K+ per year for maintenance? Have you not needed a new roof/HVAC/H2O heater? 20 years ago my roof cost $15K, last year it was $45K (larger home, lots of valleys). Painting my home outside was $20K. Sure you don't do it yearly, but it adds up. Most people do not do their own electrical and plumbing work or appliance repair. Most appliances last 8-10 years. So a new dishwasher and fridge every 10 years is $3-4K, add in the washer/dryer for another $1-2K.
Tycpial estimates is 10-15% of home value will be needed (on average) for home maintenance. When home gets older, it will be higher.

Those are accurate estimates if you're useless and can't do home repairs/improvements yourself.

Hell, just avoid companies like Michael & Son and you will save roughly 50%.

Most of us are useless in that way. I'd say if you throw a rock in a crowd, you are unlikely to find someone able to fix their own roof or replace their own AC, or fix their own plumbing, or whatever sh** has to get done on a house in a year. Did OP say that part of his money saving plan is to do his own plumbing from now on? If so I missed it.

^ Rather, fix their own roof AND replace their own AC AND fix their own plumbing, since according to you all skilled tradespeople are unnecessary.

You are making shiiit up. Nobody said that.

Regarding maintenance, you should be around 1% of property value, not 10-15%. I own several rentals and, although maintenance can vary considerably, even 10% is laughable.

You did/ You said anyone paying for house repairs and maintenance is - I think these were your words - "suckers" because you do it all yourself. Our house repairs mostly involve people with skills we don't have - sometimes people who are licensed, sometimes people who just have different experience. So, like, we need to get our roof fixed - you're here to tell me we don't need to get our roof fixed? When the a/c stopped working, we should have replaced it ourselves? It still costs money to buy the new a/c unit even if we install it. And won't we do a great job of that.

The house needed painting a couple of years ago. That was $7k. Including the paint. I suppose we should have painted our own house? Would that have looked nice? We'd still have to buy the paint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.

$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.

$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

OMG, you people are so dramatic about healthcare! I just went on the Maryland Health Connection website to get quotes for a family of four (50-year-old male, 45-year-old female, two kids ages eight and 10). The plan costs…wait for it…$246/month!

This is a Kaiser Permanente bronze plan with an annual out-of-pocket max of $7,200 per person and $14,400 per household. It’s only $246/month (i.e., less than $3,000 per year) because a $90,000 income for a family of four allows a $422 monthly tax credit.

This means to reach even $17,500 in annual spend you’d have to have not one, but two, people hitting the annual out-of-pocket max EVERY year. How are you people spending $25,000 a year on healthcare as a baseline? Do you have family members who just repeatedly cycle through various types of cancers??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.

$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.

$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

OMG, you people are so dramatic about healthcare! I just went on the Maryland Health Connection website to get quotes for a family of four (50-year-old male, 45-year-old female, two kids ages eight and 10). The plan costs…wait for it…$246/month!

This is a Kaiser Permanente bronze plan with an annual out-of-pocket max of $7,200 per person and $14,400 per household. It’s only $246/month (i.e., less than $3,000 per year) because a $90,000 income for a family of four allows a $422 monthly tax credit.

This means to reach even $17,500 in annual spend you’d have to have not one, but two, people hitting the annual out-of-pocket max EVERY year. How are you people spending $25,000 a year on healthcare as a baseline? Do you have family members who just repeatedly cycle through various types of cancers??

You're not remembering that the out of pocket max only applies to covered services and there are a lot of services not covered. And you have to go to preferred providers, so if you need something and can't find an appointment with a preferred provider, you're outta luck.

OP needs to stop thinking that he, and everyone in the family, will always be as healthy as he is now. One major illness or chronic health problem will definitely put them at the max, and with a family of 4, it's 4x more likely that an issue will come up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.

$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.

$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

OMG, you people are so dramatic about healthcare! I just went on the Maryland Health Connection website to get quotes for a family of four (50-year-old male, 45-year-old female, two kids ages eight and 10). The plan costs…wait for it…$246/month!

This is a Kaiser Permanente bronze plan with an annual out-of-pocket max of $7,200 per person and $14,400 per household. It’s only $246/month (i.e., less than $3,000 per year) because a $90,000 income for a family of four allows a $422 monthly tax credit.

This means to reach even $17,500 in annual spend you’d have to have not one, but two, people hitting the annual out-of-pocket max EVERY year. How are you people spending $25,000 a year on healthcare as a baseline? Do you have family members who just repeatedly cycle through various types of cancers??

But will OP have enough income tax liability to utilize the tax credit?

[Anonymous]

Bronze plans get you to subscribe by *seeming* affordable, but then they squeeze you with balance billing, really limited provider networks, and a ton of limitations. That is why. Just skimming the 3-page summary will make you think it's a lot better plan than it actually is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.
Root of good pays nowhere near $25k

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.
Yes, he may need to move to a lower cost of living area

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.
I have been a single family home owner for 20 years and have never spent anywhere near $4k per year for maintenance
$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.
This is possible

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.
Why would he need two cars if neither person works? Why would he be driving a lot?
$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.
You can send a kid to a public school by saving $2k per year from birth. There's also military options, scholarships, grants etc

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.
It doesn't cost $5k to drive and see family

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

I don't know how you cannot spend $4K+ per year for maintenance? Have you not needed a new roof/HVAC/H2O heater? 20 years ago my roof cost $15K, last year it was $45K (larger home, lots of valleys). Painting my home outside was $20K. Sure you don't do it yearly, but it adds up. Most people do not do their own electrical and plumbing work or appliance repair. Most appliances last 8-10 years. So a new dishwasher and fridge every 10 years is $3-4K, add in the washer/dryer for another $1-2K.
Tycpial estimates is 10-15% of home value will be needed (on average) for home maintenance. When home gets older, it will be higher.

10-15% of home value per year? That is like 60-90k per year around here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.

$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.

$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

OMG, you people are so dramatic about healthcare! I just went on the Maryland Health Connection website to get quotes for a family of four (50-year-old male, 45-year-old female, two kids ages eight and 10). The plan costs…wait for it…$246/month!

This is a Kaiser Permanente bronze plan with an annual out-of-pocket max of $7,200 per person and $14,400 per household. It’s only $246/month (i.e., less than $3,000 per year) because a $90,000 income for a family of four allows a $422 monthly tax credit.

This means to reach even $17,500 in annual spend you’d have to have not one, but two, people hitting the annual out-of-pocket max EVERY year. How are you people spending $25,000 a year on healthcare as a baseline? Do you have family members who just repeatedly cycle through various types of cancers??

You're not remembering that the out of pocket max only applies to covered services and there are a lot of services not covered. And you have to go to preferred providers, so if you need something and can't find an appointment with a preferred provider, you're outta luck.

OP needs to stop thinking that he, and everyone in the family, will always be as healthy as he is now. One major illness or chronic health problem will definitely put them at the max, and with a family of 4, it's 4x more likely that an issue will come up.

Can you provide some examples of this that would *materially* change the numbers? I'm the OP and posted the $246 example above. If there's something major I'm missing, I'd like to know because I'm really not seeing it yet.

[Anonymous]

Just one data point but for the 30-34 yr old age group a net worth of $1 million is the top 4%. Even if you drop it down to $750K that's top 6% of that age range. For perspective, the midpoint is about $100K so about 50% of people in that age range have more/less than that amount. I don't have data by gender but I am assuming it breaks down roughly evenly for men and women. That is just to say it is a very small group of women you are looking at here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$90K... Ok

$25K for health insurance (monthly, co-pays, things not covered). Remember, having babies means tons of appointments! And little kids injure themselves-- sprains and breaks, broken teeth, and all the random ear infections and rashes and fevers other stuff that necessitates an appointment. Don't forget your wife's medical care-- pregnancy complications, C-section care, mastitis, all kinds of stuff.

3K for property taxes plus assessments. LCOL areas love to claim low tax rates but slap homeowners with "assessments" when funds are needed.

Home maintenance... Gonna say $1K per year for basics, assuming a lot of DIY, plus every so often a major expense in the $5K-$25K range (roof, boiler, exterior paint). Let's set aside $4K a year for that. Total of $5K.

$2K a year for utilities and phones, maybe $3-5K if it's a cold climate. Heat uses more in a single family home than a condo.

5K for gas and car maintenance. Probably two cars, since LCOLs tend to be less dense, you'll be driving a lot. Also, set aside $1K per year to replace the cars as they depreciate. Snow tires if it's cold.

$5K a year in college savings, to contribute to SOME of the cost of an in-state education. Mr. My Parents Supported Me After College needs to do the right thing here.

$5K for travel to his and her family. Remember, if you fly, that's 4 plane tickets.

See how fast that goes? We've spent more than half the $90K already, and nobody's eaten any food or worn any clothes, and nothing bad has happened yet. But it will!

OMG, you people are so dramatic about healthcare! I just went on the Maryland Health Connection website to get quotes for a family of four (50-year-old male, 45-year-old female, two kids ages eight and 10). The plan costs…wait for it…$246/month!

This is a Kaiser Permanente bronze plan with an annual out-of-pocket max of $7,200 per person and $14,400 per household. It’s only $246/month (i.e., less than $3,000 per year) because a $90,000 income for a family of four allows a $422 monthly tax credit.

This means to reach even $17,500 in annual spend you’d have to have not one, but two, people hitting the annual out-of-pocket max EVERY year. How are you people spending $25,000 a year on healthcare as a baseline? Do you have family members who just repeatedly cycle through various types of cancers??

You're not remembering that the out of pocket max only applies to covered services and there are a lot of services not covered. And you have to go to preferred providers, so if you need something and can't find an appointment with a preferred provider, you're outta luck.

OP needs to stop thinking that he, and everyone in the family, will always be as healthy as he is now. One major illness or chronic health problem will definitely put them at the max, and with a family of 4, it's 4x more likely that an issue will come up.

Can you provide some examples of this that would *materially* change the numbers? I'm the OP and posted the $246 example above. If there's something major I'm missing, I'd like to know because I'm really not seeing it yet.

It's hard to say without knowing the exact document you're looking at, because there are a few different KP MD Bronze plans. But, for example, adult dental care and adult eyewear are not covered and don't count towards the deductible or the out of pocket limit. You won't have a dental problem every year, but as people age, their teeth tend to deteriorate.

Read up on "balance billing"-- it's when a provider is in-network but charges more than the plan is willing to pay, so the patient pays the remainder. You can say you'll always go to preferred providers that don't do that, but in a LCOL area you might not have many providers to choose from. It can happen with many services.

[Anonymous]

^thought balance billing was when you used an in network facility that employed an out of network provider. I.e. surgeon and surgery center are in network but anesthesiologist is not. This is a real PITA issue by the way, I have tried to verify whether certain support functions were in network and they have no way of knowing so no way for a patient to have a meaningful choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^thought balance billing was when you used an in network facility that employed an out of network provider. I.e. surgeon and surgery center are in network but anesthesiologist is not. This is a real PITA issue by the way, I have tried to verify whether certain support functions were in network and they have no way of knowing so no way for a patient to have a meaningful choice.

Yes, that can be a reason for a balance to exist.

It's very hard to control and verify in advance that every single person involved in your procedure is in-network. Especially in a LCOL area where they might have only one provider in staff. It's foolish to think you can stay in-network every year for decades to come without any surprises.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^thought balance billing was when you used an in network facility that employed an out of network provider. I.e. surgeon and surgery center are in network but anesthesiologist is not. This is a real PITA issue by the way, I have tried to verify whether certain support functions were in network and they have no way of knowing so no way for a patient to have a meaningful choice.

Yes, that can be a reason for a balance to exist.

It's very hard to control and verify in advance that every single person involved in your procedure is in-network. Especially in a LCOL area where they might have only one provider in staff. It's foolish to think you can stay in-network every year for decades to come without any surprises.

No, it’s not foolish, if you pay for insurance, you should be INSURED. That means that the insurer should take into account and tell you what’s in network so you get provided the care that you’re insured for. As in, it should be all automatically verified before the patient proceeds with a service that won’t bankrupt them. It’s lunacy that you can get “surprised” by this BS. The health care industry is nuts for working this way.